[Advanced] French Revolution Mafia - Day 3

[Andrej]

I edited out a lot of the other stuff in those posts. The last ones specifically are what sorta broke the camel's back. A lot of the other things I noticed are him making a lot of associative connections. The first starts in his 4th post where he claims GE could be trying to chainsaw defend Basel. He also calls Basel and Thorum potential teammates. He links Yates with Basel too. Later he makes all sort of crap revolving around Mish's wagon. Lily's vote was a bus vote. Me and Mish are distancing. Mish's wagon is a counter wagon to Yates, Basel and Peace. Mish's flip (if town) will make him pursue me, Lily and Hallia. Mish's flip (if scum) will make him look harder at Yates, Basel and Peace (again, for some reason). These don't really add up and are simply baseless on D1. I can understand looking for subtle connections like this as the game develops and using them later on once you have a few flips to solidify them but to me it comes across as him just throwing mud wherever he can so that later he can push a mislynch.

[peacesells]

Many of those were actually game related to the "town slip" discussion.

 

But he has had a few more off topic posts than I remember.

[Andrej]

 

It's not the amount of posts he's making, but the content inside them.

Does Des post off topic more as scum than as town and can you prove it? That should settle this debate. If you can't prove he posts off topic more as scum than as Town, the point is moot.

 

 

I have already provided you with a link to one game. He was lynched D1 after another player (Ithi) picked up on the set-up spec. filler in his posts. I have 2 other games in mind where I know he was scum, so I will take a look at those. The one I provided just jumped out to me instantly after looking over the thread from last night.

[Krakalakachkn]

NOOOO! My links! My beautiful links!!!

 

It's like if Michelangelo and Eugene Horowitz had a baby and named it "This exact situation!"

[Yates]

 

Does Des post off topic more as scum than as town and can you prove it? That should settle this debate. If you can't prove he posts off topic more as scum than as Town, the point is moot.

 

I have already provided you with a link to one game. He was lynched D1 after another player (Ithi) picked up on the set-up spec. filler in his posts. I have 2 other games in mind where I know he was scum, so I will take a look at those. The one I provided just jumped out to me instantly after looking over the thread from last night.

 

Right. You linked to a game where scum Des does setup spec. I guess I should really be asking Des to DISPROVE your claim by linking to Town Des doing setup spec. Point being - it's only a meta tell if he does it as scum but NOT as town.

[Yates]

 

NOOOO! My links! My beautiful links!!!

 

It's like if Michelangelo and Eugeune Horowitz had a baby and named it "This exact situation!"

 

I don't know what this means.

[Yates]

 

So you are asserting that everyone should have known that we ALL KNEW we all started with 3 loaves of bread? Even though the mod said there were adjustments for balance?

 

I'm asserting that given my role pm confirms the 3 loaves, in addition to the MOD wiki post that yes...it is the most likely scenario.  And until there is evidence to prove otherwise, I don't see any reason to think otherwise.

 

So you see why my vote is on Des, then?

[Krakalakachkn]

So I'm only on page 8 and I have this bonfire situation happening in my backyard, so I'm gonna leave it at this.

 

 

 

Yeah Basel, that was not a smart thing to say.

As to my vote, I'll obviously vote Mish.

Thanks for helping us out of RVS.

Unvote

Vote: Thorum

This "me too" post wreaks of trying to fit in and scum pretending they know the Town Role PM. Guess what? You don't.

 

 

This.  It looks bad for Thorum to say one and do another.  Especially since his vote on Mish is a joke.

 

There's always the chance.... 

 

I think I seriously love you.

 

 

Because her agreeing with my question of Mish tells me that her thoughts are in-line with mine, which is a good sign considering my alignment.

 

 

This is weak sauce.  I'm not sure that I've ever heard this reason actually used seriously.  Trying to keep your scum mate tightly under your wing?  I just can't see how this makes sense as town.

 

[Andrej]

Here's another: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/86079-basic-the-walking-dead-mafia-game-over-theo-wins/?p=3087355

 

Peace, you were actually scum with Des in this game so you saw him making a lot of set-up spec early on.

 

Here you'll see what I was talking about where he does the 'step it up town' thing.

 

Beauty. Actually uses to the OT thing as a reason to vote someone.

 

Set-up spec. He actually kind of distances away from his buddies here by naming their characters as the mafia team. Curious seeing as how I have picked up him (and only him) using the word 'aristocrat' several times when referring to the mafia in this game. I wouldn't be surprised if that word is used in some scum flips.

 

Anyway, I won't continue posting links to another game.

 

My point is this: My gut tells me Despo is scum. I have played with him enough to know that his playstyle will be similar regardless if he is town or scum. His likely argument to anything I bring against him in this regard will be in fact 'I do this as town or scum'. His posts feel off to me this game. Couple that with his baseless speculation of associative tells without prior flips and his excessive off-topic discussion I do not get the feel he is trying to actually find scum, but that he is one himself.

[Andrej]

 

Because her agreeing with my question of Mish tells me that her thoughts are in-line with mine, which is a good sign considering my alignment.

 

 

This is weak sauce.  I'm not sure that I've ever heard this reason actually used seriously.  Trying to keep your scum mate tightly under your wing?  I just can't see how this makes sense as town.

 

Perhaps because you aren't?

[peacesells]

 

 

So you are asserting that everyone should have known that we ALL KNEW we all started with 3 loaves of bread? Even though the mod said there were adjustments for balance?

 

I'm asserting that given my role pm confirms the 3 loaves, in addition to the MOD wiki post that yes...it is the most likely scenario.  And until there is evidence to prove otherwise, I don't see any reason to think otherwise.

 

So you see why my vote is on Des, then?

 

 

I see what you are trying to reason out.  But the hole is too large.

 

You are saying that if Despo is town then he should have see the "town slip."  I'm town..I didn't see it.   Furthermore...I've shown how it wasn't a town slip.  The wiki said we all get 3 loaves...she says she will starve day 4.  Even if we having varying amounts of bread...it still isn't a town slip cause she could have read the wiki and assumed that we all get 3. 

 

So, I do understand your angle.   Your angle is wrong.  If you wanna push a despo lynch with this reasoning...I'm not jumping on board.  Find something legit and I'll consider it.

Set-up spec. He actually kind of distances away from his buddies here by naming their characters as the mafia team. Curious seeing as how I have picked up him (and only him) using the word 'aristocrat' several times when referring to the mafia in this game. I wouldn't be surprised if that word is used in some scum flips.

 

First time you've made a solid point.  I myself wondering where he got the Aristocrat thing.  I find Basel pretty scummy though...so there is a conflict with that thought process.

[Andrej]

 

 

 

So you are asserting that everyone should have known that we ALL KNEW we all started with 3 loaves of bread? Even though the mod said there were adjustments for balance?

 

I'm asserting that given my role pm confirms the 3 loaves, in addition to the MOD wiki post that yes...it is the most likely scenario.  And until there is evidence to prove otherwise, I don't see any reason to think otherwise.

 

So you see why my vote is on Des, then?

 

 

I see what you are trying to reason out.  But the hole is too large.

 

You are saying that if Despo is town then he should have see the "town slip."  I'm town..I didn't see it.   Furthermore...I've shown how it wasn't a town slip.  The wiki said we all get 3 loaves...she says she will starve day 4.  Even if we having varying amounts of bread...it still isn't a town slip cause she could have read the wiki and assumed that we all get 3. 

 

So, I do understand your angle.   Your angle is wrong.  If you wanna push a despo lynch with this reasoning...I'm not jumping on board.  Find something legit and I'll consider it.

 

Set-up spec. He actually kind of distances away from his buddies here by naming their characters as the mafia team. Curious seeing as how I have picked up him (and only him) using the word 'aristocrat' several times when referring to the mafia in this game. I wouldn't be surprised if that word is used in some scum flips.

 

First time you've made a solid point.  I myself wondering where he got the Aristocrat thing.  I find Basel pretty scummy though...so there is a conflict with that thought process.

 

 

I agree at this point that speculating the '3 loaves' is pointless. It's been beaten to death, the Wiki states all players will receive 3, and plenty of people have confirmed on thread. The safest assumption is that we all received 3 pieces of bread, regardless of alignment, so any further (and prior) mention of it should be null.

 

Where is the conflict? I'm not exactly reading Basel as town either, but I think that is the general perception. Are you talking about Despo's early attack on him?

[GoldeneyesND]

The township discussion carries little value with me. Occam's razor less. I don't mind Des' WoT when I see him posting game-related analysis. His meta no matter his role is generally to post til you get sick of him. I'm cool with that. This game his analysis has been weak, he allows himself to get pushed off of stances and I've seen him defer to others "disregard my meta argument." I find this odd. 

 

I've been scum with Des and this exchange reeks of QT planning. "Mish, you need to distance from me."

 

Lovely. DM keeps trying to eat my post. Let's try this again.

@ mafia trying to make a late push to get me lynched. How funny that AJ and Yates, two people Ive suspected as scum for a while, both move their vote to me after trying to make me look bad because of OT discussion.

Here's the thing. I will touch on off topic subjects occasionally no matter what my alignment. I get bored posting at night when so many others aren't, and will often occupy myself with some random subject if I feel like it. That being said, Ive contributed more to gameplay and the scumhunt than most in this game.

Furthermore, Yates voting me after AJ talking about me going OT is gross, considering that not only did he participate in the Occam's Razor talk himself, it can be said he was the one who actually tried to derail the thread with the discussion. He mentioned OR. I said it was dumb to use that in mafia, that's it. He then responded and opened the discussion about it. I took the bait cause its hard for me to let soneone else get the last word about something (also pretty much anytime it comes up in mafia I usually end up ranting about it, anyone is free to go back and look)

I also don't like Lily all of a sudden lauding AJ as town because he said he didnt like OT discussion... after a few other people had already said the same thing. Obviously it would be the easiest thing in the world for a scummie to agree with something a couple of other people said to try and gain town cred. Lily would realize this as she's a very smart player, so my suspicion is that she was trying to make a teammate look good.

Basel is also pinging me again with his first trying to float the idea of peeps having diff number of loaves naturally, then immediately quipping that he has 3 as well. That stunk.

Yo Krak.

Vote AJ if you like scum day 1 lynches.

 

This post is so much BS Des. Now suddenly Yates is a suspect for you? He was the one who stalled my train quite effeicently, so unless you think me and Yates are mafia together; why suddenly suspect him? My lynch was building nicely and the mafia could have sat back and relaxed. This doesn't make sense. I don't even buy the "looking for town cred" angle on that one.

 

Defends Yates for stalling her train. Setting up Yates for when she flips scum and distancing from Des.

 

 

@Mish: Wth? I didn't "suddenly" start suspecting Yates. He was one of my earliest suspects, and I had my vote on him before I moved it to you

 

So how do you explain his actions when it comes to me then? You completly overlooked that part of my post.

 

Arguing with Des while pulling the focus onto Yates

 

 

 

 

@Mish: Wth? I didn't "suddenly" start suspecting Yates. He was one of my earliest suspects, and I had my vote on him before I moved it to you

 
So how do you explain his actions when it comes to me then? You completly overlooked that part of my post.

 

And the fact that me [his supposed scum read] claiming to see a Town slip is what got him to unvote you.  How did that happen?

 

Yes that's the fact that I was trying to get him to adress in my previous post. That he ignored. And now ignored again. I'm sorely tempted to move my vote to Des. But at the same time... Lily isn't assuring me in the least. If he ignores it yet again, he gets my vote now. The fearmongering already has me sorely tempted.

 

I hate threatening to vote someone. Do it or don't, but don't try to get credit for FOSing someone with no real action

 

I was going to eat but this requires a response:

For every one post devoted to off topic stuff from me, I guarantee you I can find 5-10 posts devoted to scumhunting.

Come on. How do we tell Town scumhunting Des from Scum "scumhunting" Des? Again, I've been defended as scum for "scumhunting" in the past. Always makes me giggle.

 

[GoldeneyesND]

townSLIP

[peacesells]

 

Where is the conflict? I'm not exactly reading Basel as town either, but I think that is the general perception. Are you talking about Despo's early attack on him?

 

 

Yes, his early go after Basel.  I think he stated he still has a scum read on basel but is moving on due to no traction or something like that.  I'd have to dig it up.

 

Could be early distancing I guess.  But when he and I were last scum he did his distancing while giving reads on multiple people.  Not a flat out early day attack.

 

So, if Despo is scum...then I'd say Basel isn't.

[Yates]

 

Furthermore...I've shown how it wasn't a town slip. 

Meh.  Expost facto and all that.  It's really the best case I think I'm going to get on a Day 1 lynch.

[Yates]

Curious seeing as how I have picked up him (and only him) using the word 'aristocrat' several times when referring to the mafia in this game. I wouldn't be surprised if that word is used in some scum flips.

Is this true? Now I have to go fact check this. If it is? That would be damning as there is no reference to "aristocrats" in my role OR flavor...

[Yates]

Oh wow. Check it. Literally the only two people that use the word are Des and Basel. And Basel is a lulz comment in response to Des.

 

That's... Yeah...

 

I'm good with my vote on Des.

[peacesells]

 

 

Furthermore...I've shown how it wasn't a town slip. 

Meh.  Expost facto and all that.  It's really the best case I think I'm going to get on a Day 1 lynch.

 

 

Actually, no.  Wrong term.  All the information to make a statement like "starve on day 4" had been provided by the MOD before the statement was made.

[Yates]

All the information to make a statement like "starve on day 4" had been provided by the MOD before the statement was made.

Not really. The information was there to take a swag at, I suppose, but none of it was *confirmed* by the entire Town until later.

 

Anyway, now I'm on to this "aristocrat" thing.

[peacesells]

No, the info was there to use prior.  It was given by the MOD prior.  I'm not talking about town confirming later.   If the mod gives you a link that says you starve on day 4, then you post that you are gonna starve on day 4..it is not a town slip.  Pure in simple no matter how you spin it.

 

This is NOT difficult to understand.  Not sure exactly why you are being stubborn about it.

[Yates]

This is NOT difficult to understand.  Not sure exactly why you are being stubborn about it.

It's not.

I get it.

You are saying all the information was there from the beginning.

I agree with you.

That doesn't mean everyone actually *digested* it.

I think this is where the disconnect is.

 

I never clicked on the wiki link, for example. "Ok. It's a famine game and I know what the mod told me in my role pm. Let's go." I'm guessing Des didn't either.

[peacesells]

well..lol, that is just really tough to prove and there is no evidence hinting at it.  Therefore, your reasoning is highly suspect.  Build another case or something. 

[Yates]

well..lol, that is just really tough to prove and there is no evidence hinting at it.  Therefore, your reasoning is highly suspect.  Build another case or something.

There's not a lot more than THAT to build on. It's day 1 with no flips! :lol:

 

I have this.

I have the "aristocrat" thing.

I'm waiting for Des to defend his meta re: non game related stuff [like OR]

Plus there's a metric crap ton of relational tells.

 

I can't hand you a guilty investigation result.

 

What I *CAN* say is that even if you don't buy the Town slip argument for Mish, you really *SHOULD* buy it from AJ. The reason I say this is because even if you know that people have 3 loaves of bread? He referred SPECIFICALLY to his role pm when I asked about the slip. Scum wouldn't know that there was anything said about three loaves of bread in our role pm. They might have thought it was simply covered by the wiki link. Does THIS make more sense to you?

[hazelkrs1]

Okay before I get into responding to some of the other stuff, I wanna handle a couple of misreps first, as they got me feelin all itchy all over.

 

First the Yates misrep:

 

 

You know me well enough to know that I don't duck arguments, even when I'm mafia.

To be fair, she's had that out there for a while. Unless you've been at the mall since last night? :lol:

 

This was in reference to me being upset with Mish for assuming I was ignoring her when I was getting ninjad like crazy while posting from my phone.

 

 

@Mish: Wth? I didn't "suddenly" start suspecting Yates. He was one of my earliest suspects, and I had my vote on him before I moved it to you

 
So how do you explain his actions when it comes to me then? You completly overlooked that part of my post.

 

 

THIS was the post Mish was talking about, from the page BEFORE my post, and like an hour older than my other post, which I had started working on well before it posted because the mall had some spotty wifi connection and my post kept getting lost. Which I even said when I posted it.

 

So NO Yates. She didn't have it "out there for a while". It had barely been before mine, and I addressed it as soon as I saw it. You were just trying to egg Mish on to keep her on your side.

 

AJ misrep (really the first of many, but this one was blatant and I thought I should address it first):

 

 

 

Occam's Razor isn't the issue.

Off-topic discussion is. I will quote a few more posts from him this game where he has done essentially the same thing. His aim doesn't seem to be finding scum, but rather discussing mafia theory.

For every one post devoted to off topic stuff from me, I guarantee you I can find 5-10 posts devoted to scumhunting. You're completely full of shit if you're really trying to say I haven't been scumhunting this game. But w/e, iso away. I'll respond at work tonight.

 

 
Where did I say you aren't scum hunting? I am saying you are also posting a bunch of off-topic bullshit WHICH I PROVIDED AN EXAMPLE OF A GAME YOU WERE SCUM IN TO SHOW THE CORRELATION.
 
I don't even need to say that you are still going to 'case' if you are town or mafia, we have played together enough that we both know that and we have both seen each other as either alignment. Just because you are posting WoTs and 'scum hunting' doesn't mean you are town.

 

 

Where did you say I wasn't scumhunting? In the freaking post I quoted scumhole (bolded and enlarged). You say I'm not focused on scumhunting, but on discussing mafia theory instead. When I had had VERY few posts discussing mafia theory, and a TON of scumhunting posts. You started backtracking on this the second people started calling you out on it, and then had to add this mock outrage in your post and act like you never said it.

 

Doesn't change the facts tho bro. You outright said I wasn't focused on scumhunting, even tho the vast majority of my posts are directly focused on doing just that this game. Then after being called out for your bs, you try to act like you never said it.

 

---

 

Look, townies have all the reason to lie, if they think it can help catch scum or wifom the mafia team in some way. But townies have NO reason to misrepresent a situation like AJ and Yates have. AJ's misrep here isn't as blatant as Yates', but they're both working in tandem to try and get me lynched, and the fact that they're both trying to paint a different picture than what actually happened shows how full of it they are.

 

Okay, now on to covering the rest of their crap case on me.