[Basic] Christmas Mentors & Maffia

[Nolder]

Don't drink the punch

I read that as ovaltine for a sec.

 

God I still have nightmares about that game.

 

Damn Wombat.

[Nolder]

Ok I'm as caught up as I'm going to be.

[keyholder21]

Sorry to do this again, but the baby is super congested and it's making it hard for him to sleep, so I won't be able to give this much attention now that husband is asleep. Here's what I have so far. I'm up to page 20 (post 381). I hope to be able to finish tomorrow.

 

when I am scum I purposefully do not defend others.

Hate this “guys I totally don't do this when scum” kind of statement.

 

Noticed this from Krak's post, so that's why it's not earlier:

 

And also notice how she is trying to shift the attention towards to Peace who voted for her after it was already explained that his lack of reasoning isn't anything out of the ordinary.

Just because it's “ordinary” does not mean it should be acceptable.

 

Damn, forgot I already did that. (In reference to voting Cloud)

 

Hey guys, remember when someone posting three times in a row was a scum tell?

 

hashtagGoodTimes

This flippancy at the end is kinda weird to me.

 

And anyone who is town shouldn't have to lie

Eh. Debatable.

 

Hmm alright Effie, you have convinced me. You can be town. Nolder also looks more reasonable in this game than I initially thought him to be.

 

[...]

 

##Unvote Effie, Vote Turin.

Bold: Giving her permission to be town?

 

Should be noted, picks the vote on Turin back up.

 

Also noting that after Cloud becomes convinced and unvotes elf, Golden picks up and votes her. Possible connection there.

 

Sorry I haven't posted in the last twenty pages, Christmas and all....

 

LOTS of developments though..... ugh, I haven't quite made sense of it all yet....

 

 

 

Well, that's it for me for today. Could you do me a favor though and summarize in a couple sentences why you are suspicious of Peace, Effie? Have fun playing Drunk Mafia! See you guys tomorrow.

what is with this whole backflip thing from Cloud's corner? All game he tunnels on Elf and suddely she is town, and he is asking her for advice on who to vote?

 

 

 

##vote elffern

 

Because you've posted ad nauseum about why your opinion is bestest and right. I find you overly defensive, frenetic, I disagree with a substantial portion of your logic and you engage in endless whyme fryme. Even if the scum vibe I get from you is wrong, I don't find most of what you say to contribute to actual scumhunting, other than to FOS several people and then submit an OMGUS vote which you lyingly claim is based on gameplay.

hmmmmm not many valid points in that post... and it is clear that the Elf lynch is going nowhere, havign no basis to it.

 

##unvote

 

## vote golden eyes

 

 

Reason, that last post was a big pile. I'll explain in the morning when I can get to a computer. Maybe :).

and now peace has turned on Golden for it... I can certainly see why, but in the space on one page Cloud and Peace have both ditched the Elf lynch. Not sure what to make of it.

If I was scum, I think that a strategy I could try would be to tunnel on one player and try to get a quick lynch.... but that seems stupid and risky, especially when Christmas guarantees that activity would be low.

 

If I was scum, I do not think that I would persist in a lynch like Elf's like Golden has, because that seems like a dead end so far. However, as scum I might jump on a player using crappy reasoning to vote someone, especially if my current vote was going nowhere.... like Peace has done. That makes sense, I think.

 

As they say, to catch scum... you have to THINK like scum....

 

so, until I think about these developments a bit more, I will place my vote here

##vote peace

 

Hoof out

 

Do NOT like this post from Hoof. He doesn't like Golden's post, thinks there aren't very many valid points, but then votes peace for voting golden by saying he has crappy reasoning.

 

He does that all the time. You shouldn't take it personal.

 

Also, can you explain what you found to be off about Golden's post?

^ both of these make Cloud look bad. First post, giving an 'out' for Golden's response to peace. Second post for two reasons, 1) asking peace to explain what he said when Cloud had argued earlier that it's in peace's meta not to do that, 2) it appeared obvious to me why golden's post was off/bad.

 

I'm getting a townie vibe from Elf. Her responses to all the flack she got in the beginning of the game look good.

 

As I'm getting more into the game, still seeing peace as town.

 

@Hoof, why did you said "one of Cloud and Peace" is mafia while you vote for Peace? Isn't that just leaving your options open for a mislynch if both of them are town?

 

Example: we lynch Peace, he's town, you say "welp, Cloud must be mafia then." Which is obviously bad because Cloud is strongly pro-town in this game.

I like this point, although I don't agree that Cloud has been strongly pro-town.

 

Any single contribution that you make to your team at the cost of your life hurts them more than it helps them.

Disagree. There are times that a death as a townie is better than staying alive.

 

Buddying between Cloud and Tommy around post #360 is interesting. Rather than addressing it, Cloud asks Krak to post something useful (which is a fair point, but I wanted to note the way he handled the buddying question).

 

@Salami: When do you plan on setting a deadline?

Is this ever a useful question for town?

[Nolder]

 

@Salami: When do you plan on setting a deadline?

Is this ever a useful question for town?

 

I think it could be, if you're planning on being absent and/or have a power role.

[Blackhoof]

Usually though, Town gains nothing by having a deadline, assuming it is an active and proactive town. I guess a deadline forces people to actually make a decision, if they are vacillating and not making any progress, but ideally a town should be able to come to a decision without a deadline.

[csarmi]

So I take it you guys want a deadline?

[csarmi]

Aiming for January the 3rd.

[BFG]

Ok, seem to have lost the ability to quote

 

Nolder @782 you mentioned that you realised the game had changed from N0 to Day 1 and implied you'd been waiting for it. So why didn't you clarify the rules during the N0 phase. Did also say it was minor.

 

Buddying in all forms would seem to relieve pressure. If you don't know the alignment of the player why would you want to do this?

 

Your stance on voting is consistent this game, but completely contradictory to your WD town game. Where you are very explicit that voting is a townies primary weapon and that we shouldn't be afraid to use it. But probably beating a dead horse at this point.

[BFG]

@796 so low post counts is both a null tell and a common cover for mafia? If you're arguing that low post counts are a cover for mafia than why not argue that from the first?

[BFG]

@802 updated reads?

[Nolder]

@802 updated reads?

Tomorrow. I just woke up after falling asleep watching a youtube video.

[BFG]

Fun video :)

[Nolder]

Ok, seem to have lost the ability to quote

 

Nolder @782 you mentioned that you realised the game had changed from N0 to Day 1 and implied you'd been waiting for it. So why didn't you clarify the rules during the N0 phase. Did also say it was minor.

Call it semantics but I didn't consider the game to have started until Day so I never bothered checking in during N0.

I couldn't clarify the rules during N0 because I hadn't read them yet.

 

Buddying in all forms would seem to relieve pressure. If you don't know the alignment of the player why would you want to do this?

If you're relatively sure someone is town go ahead and buddy them and defend against attacks if you want to.

All I have been trying to say is that it probably isn't a good idea to do such things on D1 where you can't possibly be any kind of sure without some game mechanic guiding you.

 

Your stance on voting is consistent this game, but completely contradictory to your WD town game. Where you are very explicit that voting is a townies primary weapon and that we shouldn't be afraid to use it. But probably beating a dead horse at this point.

So you're trying to say that because I criticized Cloud's play and didn't vote him I'm somehow being inconsistent?

Well I dunno what to tell you besides what I've already told you. I thought it was too early for lynching and didn't want to seem like a hypocrite while telling off Cloud. If I had voted him I figured he'd mention that and we'd get into a back and forth about the difference between merely voting someone and actively trying to lynch them. I guess I didn't do myself any favors since that happened anyway but that was my mindset at the time like it or not.

[Nolder]

@796 so low post counts is both a null tell and a common cover for mafia? If you're arguing that low post counts are a cover for mafia than why not argue that from the first?

You're not making sense to me.

 

Yes low post count aka inactivity/lurking is a null tell.

Town do it legitimately as well as mafia so there is no way to tell between the two.

Sometimes mafia do it on purpose so they don't have to talk as much and give off tells or reads or react or respond to anything.

This is a big part of the reason why inactives just need to be lynched. There is no way to tell mafia from town and as long as towns on DM let inactive slip by mafia will see fake lurking as a legitimate strategy.

 

As for my vote on Hallia.

Yeah I didn't want to just bury it on an inactive because that says nothing about me.

We broadcast our towniness as much as our scuminess with our votes.

If I'm only going after inactives (ineffectively to boot) you aren't going to be able to read me as well as you could have and that just screws us all up even more, especially if it ends up getting me lynched. I felt at the time like it was more likely to screw things up if I voted blind than if I just kept my vote on Hallia even though that wasn't a good move either. Next time I guess I just wont think out loud for everyone's benefit geez.

[Nolder]

Fun video :)

It was the post season wrap up for UHC 13.

[Nolder]

 

@802 updated reads?

Tomorrow. I just woke up after falling asleep watching a youtube video.

 

Before anyone starts nagging me, yes I'll do it sometime today.

Not right now though. Now is breakfast.

[Leelou]

I'll try to get my reads posted tonight, but if not then by tomorrow for sure. 

 

The argument between Via and Golden seemed a bit forced. It started when Goldy called her out for not posting, but it was right around the time that she started to dig into the game after replacing in. 

 

 

 

 

11 - Via- (1 post) I have nothing to say here yet

 

@ Turin - I thought you didn't like it when people put themselves down as town in their read lists and stuff - or is it different because you are doing it?

 

@ Krak - you have misquoted Turin in your post at 464 - what makes it worse is that you have included Turin's post in yours. I don't know whether you have just misread, or have tried to twist Turin's words here, but tried to do it subtly by just swapping two words round

 

@ Golden - I have more than 1 post. yes I am still only in single digits I know, because I replaced in. But by saying that I have only posted once means to me you have not actually read the thread, you are putting all these opinions out there but you are actually skimming

 

 

for skimming while trying to look like you are scumhunting

 

##vote Golden

 

 

 

@ Turin - I thought you didn't like it when people put themselves down as town in their read lists and stuff - or is it different because you are doing it?

 

@ Krak - you have misquoted Turin in your post at 464 - what makes it worse is that you have included Turin's post in yours. I don't know whether you have just misread, or have tried to twist Turin's words here, but tried to do it subtly by just swapping two words round

 

@ Golden - I have more than 1 post. yes I am still only in single digits I know, because I replaced in. But by saying that I have only posted once means to me you have not actually read the thread, you are putting all these opinions out there but you are actually skimming

 

Nice try but you're reaching. I ISO'd everyone but you because I wanted to give you a chance to post and frankly you've done nothing of value in this game. Everyone else can feel free to check their post count as well. Super shady voting on an incorrect post count though, I didn't misrep anything you said. Pathetic, I'll immediately dismiss your opinions now 

 

 

 

You didn't misrepresent anything I said because as far as you were concerned I hadn't said anything, that's where the misrepresentation is.

This was a mistake on your part, anyone can make mistakes, that's fine.

You are saying though that you didn't search out what posts I made before you did your option post - as it happened I posted more which would have given you something to comment on about me. You didn't search and you didn't notice that my post count in the thread has gone up.

There is a difference between saying 'Via has had only one post so no opinion on her yet' and 'I don't think Via has added anything to the game and her opinions don't matter to me'.

Now that you've dismissed a players options because they picked you up on an error you made, town has some information to work on, now or in the future.

As I say, anyone can make a mistake, that's not a real issue. I am surprised by your response and your OMGUS vote though, wasn't expecting such a big response to my comment

 

 

 

 

I want to go back and look at Hallia's posts during all this, but I will have more time tonight to look through everything.

 

For now though, ##vote Via

[keyholder21]

Baby is up again, so here's what I have for now. I'm at post 463. My plan is for husband to watch baby for an hour or so after he gets home from work so I can finish my catch up. I apologize for the disjointedness so far.

 

Apparently have to split it into two, so part 1:

 

Cloud's response to Hoof:

 

 

 

He has been actively scumhunting, and pushing hard I'm several people to get reactions and the game going. He might be scum trying to gain townie cred and take the lead in the game, but I am leaning town at the moment.

Haven’t I been doing the exact same thing that makes you have a town read on Tom? You don’t even seem sure of your town read on him when you say that he could still be scum, but that you are just leaning town on him for the moment. You are allowing so much wiggle room in your reads in this game. It’s insanely scummy.

 

Elf responded well to the votes against her, and had acted well under this bit of pressure I think.

I agree and it’s one of the reasons why I have gotten a town read on her after pushing for her lynch since the start of Day 1.

 

As for you, I haven't really liked your play at times, I will go through it again when I have time.

You have a scum read on me and yet you can’t get further with explaining why than saying that you don’t like my play at times. I can’t take your read on me serious if you don’t come up with solid reasoning or at least an argument that sounds halfway logical.

 

As for your flip on elf, it just didn't seem like she said anything different to convince you. Like after pages of back-and-forth, since a senseless and over-eager vote on your part, you just agree and team up against peace. I don't even know, it is just weird.

My flip on Effie didn’t come out of nowhere like you try to make it appear, and even here you allow yourself enough wiggle room to change your mind later by saying that it “seemed that way”. I was having a back and forth with Effie since the start of Day 1, and post #234 was the turning point for me because I then realized that she managed to beat down every argument I had against her. You call my early vote on her senseless and over-eager, but you don’t even care to point out what you found wrong about it. And I’m not teaming up against Peace. Me asking Effie to summarize her case on Peace so that I could understand it better doesn’t in any way mean that I agree with her. I still have a town read on him.

 

Because I don't think they both are? Out of my current reads, cloud and peace are scummy to me, but peace much more so.

I guess one could look at it that way- or you could look at it that I find both scummy but don't think that both are mafia, because that would be terrible play.

This doesn’t even make sense dude. You have both of us as your scum reads, while at the same time accusing me for teaming up with Effie to go after Peace (which is obviously a lie), and then you don’t think that we are both scum because that would be terrible play from our part?

 

Pfft, eagerly pushing for an easy hoof lynch, are we? not AGAIN....*yawn*

I also don’t like this part of your post because you are purposefully defending yourself by bringing up the fact that you are often a Day 1 lynch. It isn’t the fault of other players when they want to lynch you because they find your play scummy.

 

 

##vote Hoof

 

 

 

I like this post a lot.

 

 

 

 

The thread title threw me off. I hadn't realized we were in Day 1 til I saw the thread had gained like a million pages already. Looks like a pissing contest already? Tommy is slightly obnoxious, but I saw a preview of that in his secret circle game. I think between his and Turin's post lengths I'm going to go put on my glasses. Town reads on both. Cloud appears to be coming out a little more aggressively, but he's been lynched Day 1 in several recent games, so I'm not sure if that's a meta change or just an effort to survive Day 1, something Blackhoof seems to not be doing at all. Leaning scum on Cloud. I'm getting a townie vibe from Leelou, always Null on Peace at this point, I admit to have a hard time reading him. Nothing else as far as early reads go. I'll be around tomorrow night most likely, but probably not for the rest of the day. Merry Christmas to everyone who celebrates, or whatever your end of the year holiday happens to be.

H'ok, 11 pages in and I agree with the first part of Gend (GoldeneyesND MUAAHAHAHA) regarding the pissing contest, and Tommy, and Turin. I actually disagree regarding Cloud. While still active, he doesn't seem as aggravated as he tends to be in lots of games, which gets him lynched early. But it's still Christmas Eve as far as I've read. Going back in.

 

That's the only thing you found to comment on in the first 11 pages? I find that really weird, personally, as I just went through them and felt like there was a lot more to comment on. Also, it should be noted that it's a post of Golden's.

 

I'm still waiting for Nolder to respond to me...

 

Hoof thinking I'm town really doesn't do anything for me. I don't see how she can conclude "one of" Cloud or Peace is scum, but assume it's impossible that both are. I haven't seen any posts from Hoof exploring that reasoning. As a townie, knowing there's at least 3 mafia in this game, you should be pushing AT least 2 suspects if not 3... pushing "one or the other" just leaves you open to mislynch options if they're both town and you're scum.[/b]

 

##Vote Hoof

 

I'm willing to listen to you Hoof, but I need far better than this.

 

Krak, you should really expand your thoughts, you're floating a lot.

“one or the other” could be fine if there's a relatively clear reason why he feels they are that separate. Explanation is for sure necessary.

 

Krak, definitely. Step it up.

 

More back and forth between Turin and Tommy. On the fence about Tommy. I get irritated playing with people who think they are the sh-t and the only ones that matter, but that's my own problem. Trying to decide if I dislike it because I think it's scummy or just my own opinion that's coloring my views. I disagree with how Tommy feels about Cloud though. Null read on him atm.

 

Krak looks to be taking potshots from the preiphery. His follow along vote onto Hoofie pinged. I must admit the the "player X doesn't look good right now" phrase as voting justification irks me. If you think the player is worth a vote you should be willing to say they are mafia in your opinion. Not much else has stood out to me on him. There was an odd thing he said about me but I don't remember it at the moment and am not bothered to dig thru the thread to look tbh.

Good points about Krak.

 

Hoof's response to Cloud:

 

 

Peace isn't really doing anything to convince me otherwise of his scummyness..... mafia isn't about debating? What? What is it about then?

 

 

 

I don't actually find him especially scummy right now, and I want to see what he says. And I am aware there are other paths my line of reasoning could take, but it seems best to go down the worst possible case first.

In one of your first posts you mentioned that Tom's eagerness is the only thing that stood out to you, and now you call him out for trying to get a lynch going by using very thin reasoning and at the same time trying to set up an escape if his attempt would fail. I again disagree with your explanation regarding his actions so far, but it's certainly interesting that you are now trying to backpaddle away from your initial read on him by saying that you want to wait for him to talk more. You haven't stated your suspicion on anyone else and you even admit that it's best to go with the worst possible case first, but you still aren't willing to vote for him at this stage of the game.

 

##vote Elf

 

already discussed to death, but this vote pings me. right off the bat, little reasoning behind it..... sure it is a day 1 vote, but it was made in the first few hours of the day, with a semblance of having reasoning to it.

 

##vote elf

also discussed to death- unexplained vote, implied that he is using cloud's reasoning (which was bad anyway) and refused to explain it later on, despite prodding.

 

 

 

Personal attacks after I put doubt on you isn't very Christmaslike :(

 

It's not very town like either

 

##Vote Peaceinthemiddleeast

 

I wouldn't be surprised if we've hit scum already

 

-Self conscious (evidenced by OP gimmick)

-Sheep voting with no discussion, expecting the wagon to take off

-Overly defensive and gets into personal attacks on Day 1 (lol)

 

Definitely the most suspicious play so far

 

Follow me to the promised land

I only agree with you about his touchy attitude in this game, but the rest is null. Do something useful and follow me on Elf instead.

 

tunnelling on elf some more

 

 

 

Nolder, why have you been up Cloud's ass in this game when he is arguably the most pro-town player in this game? Who are your top 3 scumreads right now?

You can make that argument if you want to. I'll laugh and call you dumb though.

 

As for scumreads.

I'm reluctant to narrow my focus to just three people right now, it's too early in the game for that.

Especially given that so many people have barely posted.

If I've noticed something off or wrong or whatever I've called people on it.

Nothing has been held back thus far so what you've seen is what you get.

 

I will say that out of everyone Krak has been the only one to give me a town vibe thus far.

 

all this discussion and you aren't willing to make any statements, other than Krak, who hasn't posted much? (not that I can talk, really)

 

 

He has been actively scumhunting, and pushing hard I'm several people to get reactions and the game going. He might be scum trying to gain townie cred and take the lead in the game, but I am leaning town at the moment.

Haven’t I been doing the exact same thing that makes you have a town read on Tom? You don’t even seem sure of your town read on him when you say that he could still be scum, but that you are just leaning town on him for the moment. You are allowing so much wiggle room in your reads in this game. It’s insanely scummy.

 

As for you, I haven't really liked your play at times, I will go through it again when I have time.

You have a scum read on me and yet you can’t get further with explaining why than saying that you don’t like my play at times. I can’t take your read on me serious if you don’t come up with solid reasoning or at least an argument that sounds halfway logical.

 

As for your flip on elf, it just didn't seem like she said anything different to convince you. Like after pages of back-and-forth, since a senseless and over-eager vote on your part, you just agree and team up against peace. I don't even know, it is just weird.

My flip on Effie didn’t come out of nowhere like you try to make it appear, and even here you allow yourself enough wiggle room to change your mind later by saying that it “seemed that way”. I was having a back and forth with Effie since the start of Day 1, and post #234 was the turning point for me because I then realized that she managed to beat down every argument I had against her. You call my early vote on her senseless and over-eager, but you don’t even care to point out what you found wrong about it. And I’m not teaming up against Peace. Me asking Effie to summarize her case on Peace so that I could understand it better doesn’t in any way mean that I agree with her. I still have a town read on him.

 

Because I don't think they both are? Out of my current reads, cloud and peace are scummy to me, but peace much more so.

I guess one could look at it that way- or you could look at it that I find both scummy but don't think that both are mafia, because that would be terrible play.

This doesn’t even make sense dude. You have both of us as your scum reads, while at the same time accusing me for teaming up with Effie to go after Peace (which is obviously a lie), and then you don’t think that we are both scum because that would be terrible play from our part?

 

Pfft, eagerly pushing for an easy hoof lynch, are we? not AGAIN....*yawn*

I also don’t like this part of your post because you are purposefully defending yourself by bringing up the fact that you are often a Day 1 lynch. It isn’t the fault of other players when they want to lynch you because they find your play scummy.

 

 

##vote Hoof

 

1: I do it all the time- I don't like making definite statements in a game like this. No, you have been tunnelling on Elf more than anything.

2: I said that I would expand when I have time- even now I feel too tired to form a proper case. Don't take it seriously? your call

3: what was wrong with it WAS that it was senseless and over-eager. There was no real reason behind it, and it happened so soon, and it reeked of scum trying to get a quick lynch, before the day could get into full swing. only the scum benefit from a quick day.

4: I don't mean LITERALLY on a team with Elf, I meant it figuratively. One can find someone scummy without someone absolutely positively being scum. There is always room for error and uncertainty.

5: true enough. twould be nice if this particular train on me wasn't terrible.

 

I'm still waiting for Nolder to respond to me...

 

Hoof thinking I'm town really doesn't do anything for me. I don't see how she can conclude "one of" Cloud or Peace is scum, but assume it's impossible that both are. I haven't seen any posts from Hoof exploring that reasoning. As a townie, knowing there's at least 3 mafia in this game, you should be pushing AT least 2 suspects if not 3... pushing "one or the other" just leaves you open to mislynch options if they're both town and you're scum.

 

##Vote Hoof

 

I'm willing to listen to you Hoof, but I need far better than this.

 

Krak, you should really expand your thoughts, you're floating a lot.

I'm... I'm a guy..... :P

 

Well, maybe not impossible, but not likely in my opinion. It seems like bad play for 2 out of a likely 3 scum members to act like Peace and Cloud have been.... but I can see how it might be open for me to make that mislynch claim and such. I still think that it is worthwhile to examine things from the hypothetical that both, neither and one of them is scum, like I did with Peace and Cloud. If you disagree, whatever, this isn't the basis of my case anyway. If we lynch peace and he flips town, I promise I won't call for Cloud to be lynched based on this logic, mmkay?

 

I second your call for Krak to expand. What is your reasoning behind your vote on me Krak?

 

 

 

Not sure why Peace thinking that mafia wasn't about debating makes him look scummy.

 

I agree that it did seem like Cloud was tunneling on Elf, though I don't agree that his first vote for her in itself is scummy. Not sure how I feel about changing his mind on elf. I dislike that it seems like changing your mind = immediate mafia, but he did seem very focused. And I didn't like the “okay, you can be town.” statement made by Cloud. Maybe Darthe is telling him to be more definitive? <--irony. Lol.

 

I don't like that Hoof doesn't want to make the time to expound on his vote. Why not just explain the vote when you make the vote? That way you don't have all the confusion surrounding it (*ahem*peace too*ahem*). If you are town, making town focus on the fact that you didn't provide adequate reasoning INSTEAD of providing a case that people could look at and possibly vote for who you think is scum is no bueno.

 

Reference to #4. Yes, you can think someone is scummy without thinking them scum (to a point). Super dislike the “there is always room for uncertainty” line. DUH. No one except the mafia know what alignment people are so we all know this. Doesn't mean you can't take a stand about something. It's hella wishy-washy.

 

Your response to Tommy makes your 'peace OR cloud' make a bit more sense. 'Promising' not to lynch Cloud if peace flips town is crazy scummy though. If you think one is town and one is scum and one flips town then you should want to go after the other one.

[keyholder21]

Part 2:

 

Checking in for today.

Don't have much time but I notice Hallia hasn't been around much.

Want to hear more from her before our deadline. If not, I have no problem with sending her to the executioner.

 

##Vote Hallia

Lame. A lot has been said, there should be more to comment on. How did you notice Hallia hadn't been around much if you weren't paying attention enough to comment? Also, D1 inactive lynches are no bueno, imo. Doesn't tell you nearly as much as lynching someone who had been around and talking.

 

Not crazy about Leelou's vote on Hallia, but she does seem to have more of a reason other than just that Hallia is mostly inactive. In that same post, I don't agree with leelou's town reads or peace, but agree on the rest.

 

Cloud's post to (mostly) Turin:

 

 

 

 

Yeah Blackhoof doesn't look good.

 

 

##unvote vote Blackhoof

You now all of a sudden agree with me? You didn’t respond back at me when I retorted your arguments for why I must be scum, and you kept your vote on me since then without bother to reply to anything in the game except to call me out for buddying, so your sudden switch to Hoof without explanation seems odd.

 

 

Last first. When were you confirmed as town? BFG is the innocent Child and therefore the ONLY confirmed townie at present.

I don’t agree with your argument that you can only call confirmed townies, town. Town hunting is just like scum hunting an essential part of playing mafia, and you accusing Tom of having strong town reads sounds like a cheap scum strategy.

 

So for you to go around like you are the instructor of mafia in this game where even the experienced have mentors(or advisors) is ridiculous. I have used similar tactics in a game here at least once. There was a new player game and my student vanished at the start of the game making me the player. I was able to lead the town of new folks to achieve mafia victory. I have also seen Dap employ this in the Indiana Jones game I helped(term used loosely) Ithi mod some time ago. So forgive me for not being ready to follow into lock step with you.

You are against the idea of someone leading town because you have seen it being done by the mafia twice before? You are trying to support an argument by only presenting evidence that would back up your claim; a claim which is at the same time wrong because almost every game has a player who takes up the mantle of town captain on him.

 

 

Since I think you are the most likely mafia at the moment followed by your most pro town player cloud. In reading to here I did notice a lot of chummy behavior between you including where he defended you from elf. you called him out but backed off the defending charge from seeing his vote on elf. All that does is turn it from regular defense to chainsaw defense. But you already knew that.

So you think I’m scum because Tom has a strong town read on me? I have made a lot of game related posts since the start of Day 1 and yet the best thing you could find to try and accuse me was to grab on to that one post where I appear to be defending Tommy. You can’t actively engage in scumhunting without ending up defending someone else.

 

You start out with that ridiculous OP challenge thing, like Leelou said to WOW the crowd with your skills. Then proceed to demand that town follow you to victory. You don't say a town victory tho do you? And several times you have stated that anyone that grinds against you must either not like your style or be mafia themselves. How about I just think you are mafia?

And now you are just nitpicking. I bet that if Tom said that we should follow him to achieve a town victory you would have jumped on him by saying that if he were actually town he wouldn’t have stated it like that. The OP challenge wasn’t even that big of a deal to begin with, and so far I think you have taken jokingly comments out of context, argued semantics and made mountains out of molehills.

 

 

He has been quite eager to get thru D1 it appears. This is usually more evident in mafia members that have good roles they want to utilize.

I haven't been eager to get through Day 1 at all. I have the second highest post count of any player in this game, and I have arguably been the most effective scumhunter so far. It’s interesting that you seem to agree with Nolder’s line of reasoning because you start taking a completely different stance on this topic when you talk about Nolder’s play.

 

When you made the comment "when are we going to lynch Turin or Hoof" there wasn't much hoofie discussion yet. I was wondering why you picked him to put in there with me. You were following Tommy onto me so that I get but why hoofie at that point?

Check post #283 where I give my reasoning for why I don’t like Hoof’s vote on Peace.

 

or was Darthe pulling your strings there like with the Leelou is town thing?

Darthe hasn’t been pulling my strings at all. It isn’t even allowed for a mentor to actively participate in a game. I got a town read on Leelou because she seemed to have gotten genuinely annoyed at Tom’s light-hearted comment at the start of the game, and I don’t see a reason for her to be if she were mafia.

 

Added to the Tommy defender team. The little shot Night 0 could easily be a distance ploy. If Tommy is mafia like I think then she could very well be also. mafia lean.

You only seem to have a mafia read on me and Leelou because we both think Tom is town. Your argument that everyone who has a town read on Tom is mafia themselves is within the same line of reasoning as your accusation of Tom where you call him out for thinking that everyone who disagrees with him is mafia.

 

 

Also didn't like that he called cloud out for actively trying to get a lynch on D1. There is no such thing as pressuring without the intent to lynch. it is like saying that you are voting someone to pressure them. If the votee doesn't think that you are serious then they will just ignore your vote.

I agree with the things you said here, but the reason I quoted this part is because it’s in contrast to what you said earlier when you gave your reads on me. You repeated Nolder by calling me out for being eager to get through Day 1 and now you don’t agree with him anymore. So which one is it? I advise you to stick to one story the next time you are mafia.

 

No one but the mafia know who the mafia are at this point, and there are few ways for townies to know any other townies either.

There is. It’s called being a good scumhunter.

 

So you guys gonna claim masons now? Cause if your not mafia, they have already surmised that is about the only thing that could justify your complete faith in cloud at this time as well as his in you and the banter you are throwing back and forth.

Tom and I aren’t Masons or Lovers.

 

 

##Unvote Hoof, ##Vote Turin.

 

 

 

Agreed about krak's vote.

 

Not agreed about definitive statements about others being town. Unless they are confirmed, you are talking about yourself, or you have another way of knowing, I don't think you should talk in definitives when it comes to alignment. Saying you have a town read on someone, and saying very definitively “this person is town, just like I am town.” are two different things. I don't feel like is scummy response to Turin though, I feel like this is a difference in playstyles (darthe/Cloud, Tommy, and turin).

 

I agree with leading town being a null tell, I also agree with making a mountain out of a molehill when it comes to Tommy's early D1 challenge and victory vs. town victory.

 

“arguably have been the best scumhunter so far” - this kind of defense is not helpful. It comes off as petty and heated. Maybe you will argue that, doesn't mean others will. Also, it was D1 so saying you are the best scumhunter so far is meh.

 

Very agreed that the votes on Hallia are lazy.

 

Golden, move your vote from Effie. She is town. I also have no idea what you are trying to accomplish by chasing after her in the first place after I stopped casing her.

Worth noting, imo.

 

Cloud, don't tell me what to do. Hallia hides more actively as scum than she does as town. If she steps it up and I get a town vibe from her I will move my vote accordingly.

I like this response.

 

Cloud especially on reread looks to be following along with a zeal that can not be explained by the talk of town leaning. They working together and that feels off for the start of the game.

 

Cloud and Tommy have defended each other quite a bit. moreso than a normal town pair on D1 would have a right to IMO.

These two points make a lot of sense to me.

 

Turin, you really haven't played mafia with me. At all. Give actual post examples of what you find scummy from me. I leave a joke vote until I find something scummy. Hallia not posting is scummy. She hides as scum, which I posted. I posted a couple mins after nolder since I was typing up my post and didn't actually see his vote until after I posted.

Meta defenses are blaahhhh.

 

 

Tres: Hally hasn't HAD any play to not be pingy at that point. That's exactly what's pingy, lol. All three of those players were being chatty and not discussing the game, but Hally is the most guilty of that. Of that group, Hoof looks the best recently.

Agreed.

 

Peace: agree he isn't doing a good job with his rhetoric, is more attacking then clearing, which is a ping. I let him off the hook earlier, but maybe I should revisit that decision.

 

Cloud: is dynamic and transparent with his reasoning, for that alone I'd take him off the lynch table for today. But he's also making sense. His vote for Elf is based on reasoning I've used before... which is that timid scum likes to lead town to lynches but not start them. His "tunneling" on Elf comment you made is superfluous because he later comes to a resolution with Elf and unvotes her. THAT'S A TOWN ON TOWN INTERACTION. Srsly.

 

Nolder: has been a ghost, and I'm still waiting for him. If he doesn't get more involved, he's a decent scum candidate at this point solelyh for dodging my questions.

 

I'll say that this post makes you look more involved in the game, but I dislike your conclusions on Cloud and how you seem to be tunneling him, since it's pretty obvious he and Elf came to resolution already. Dunno how you'd ignore that point if you were trying to give him a fair shake.

The part about Cloud makes some sense, actually. Although I don't agree that Elf was trying to lead a town lynch but not start it. That could boil down to difference in playstyles, but I'm noting it to look at again later.

 

agreed on nolder. Fairly agreed on Hoof.

 

 

this isn't debate club.

 

This stuck out. (Yes, I'm reading the thread backwards to catch up)

 

Er...yes, I agree with several other people, it's kind of the whole point.

 

Again, this is ALL you have to comment on?!

 

 

 

I didn't say elf was clearly scum. And that stuff was early in the day. Golden going into hiding only makes me more suspicious.

The timing of his vote on Golden, and him keeping it there despite everything else that had gone on up to this point makes me think peace is town. It would have been easy to move his vote, but he didn't.

[csarmi]

Happy new year.

[_CLOUD]

Happy new year everyone!

[Krakalakachkn]

Anyone gonna be around for a new year's edition of Blackout Mafia™ tonight?

[Nolder]

Anyone gonna be around for a new year's edition of Blackout Mafia™ tonight?

Absolutely.

[keyholder21]

I should be around.

 

Finally caught up! Final catch up posts incoming.

[Nolder]

01 - Peace

Didn't like how Peace was acting early game, especially the bit where he wouldn't explain his vote. It was needlessly frustrating and came off as childish rather than as some sort of tactical play. As the game went on I found myself agreeing with things Peace would say and this made me feel townie about him but looking back a lot of that stuff was general game theory and opinions on mafia and not about this game. Example of such things in post #271. Maybe that's intentional or maybe it's innocent. I don't know and I'm willing to give him a pass on it but I absolutely want to hear more thoughts and opinions that are related directly to this game and the people playing it. Also of note was how he jumped on Golden's train early, claimed he would provide a proper case later, stalled and never provided the case. That definitely looks bad to me given that it was the second time he's notably voted and avoided giving any reason for it. Looks like a bus/burying vote that just happened to go bad at the last second. Or good depending on how you want to look at it since the point of burying the vote on a scummate early would be to buy town credit for being on the lynch after they go down without actually contributing to their lynch.

 

02 - Cloud

Like Peace I had issues with Cloud's play early on but I think he pulled his game together. Unlike Peace I don't think he's done anything particularly scummy since. His early tunneling was pretty scummy and I don't know what in the world he was doing tunneling so early in the game but other than that I've found most of his posts to be pretty good. Erring on the side of caution and throwing him into the neutral zone rather than town read though.

 

03 - Krak 

Liked a couple posts he made early game, he caught some flak when I was struggling to keep up and I'm not even sure what for to be honest. My impression of him is town still but I really would like to see a bit more meat to his posts. It's not that he's not participating but it's like he says the least amount possible and that's frustrating when trying to get a better read.

 

04 - GoldenEyes (mentored by Despothera) - Maffia Goon - lynched D1

I didn't get to have too much interaction with Goldeneyes before he was lynched and before that happened I had a slight town read on him. Not going to do it now but at some point I'd like to analyze his posts and put my thoughts on him in a post by itself.

 

05 - TommyRod

Talks a lot and has a...swagger. I think this is a forced meta. I like the act but actual gameplay has been lacking I think. He hides behind asking a bunch of questions but what has he done with the answers he's gotten? As far as I remember seeing not much. I think this would be a good tactic for scum to use, keep townies on the defensive and answering his questions like they are on the spot so they don't ever get the chance to do the same to him. I noticed this lack of gameplay really stand out when I went to read his mega post of "reads". Most of it is just a summary of actions and not actual thoughts about people or what they've done. This is another common scum tactic. Summarize events to look like you're participating but never actually say much if you can avoid it. Likable persona but probably scum in this game.

 

06 - Leelou

Leelou I still don't trust much. You guys can spin it as "scum paranoia" if you want to but I have been lynched on Wednesdays as a joke, both as town and scum, enough to justifiably be paranoid. Blackhoof and Darthe too have both been subject to Day 1 lynches that were driven more by lulz than anything else. They know, Verbal too. And so does Leelou which brings me back to what I feel is a healthy distrust of her this game. I admit I haven't played close attention to her interactions with other people thus far so I can't give much input there but I do notice that if Peace was scum burying his vote early Leelou is the one I'd pick for burying her vote late. She didn't give what I deemed to be a good reason for jumping on Goldeneyes train, just said he was "illogical" basically. Would like to see her explain that vote further.

 

07 - Key

Have zero read on Key. Basically starting from here on out. I do like the effort she's put into catching up since she joined the game though. Kudos for that.

 

08 - Elffern 

Elf is kind of in the same basket Goldeneyes was for me. Light town read but we'd never really interacted outside our initial arguing with Cloud early game so I don't have much of a read here. I think most of what she said that was relevant after the Cloud stuff was when I was busy so I couldn't do more than skim her posts. No strong read either way, need to go back and reread some of her posts.

 

09 - Hallia

Hallia is roughly in the same spot as Key for me. I don't remember her saying much before I was voting her and we had our exchange. Since then she's seemed fairly active so credit for that.

 

10 - BFG - Innocent Child

Town. Not much to say really. I think she's doing a decent job of being a town leader without bullying town into doing what she wants because she's clear.

 

11 - Via

No read yet.

 

12 - Nolder

Hi.

 

13 - BlackHoof

Seems kind of wishy washy. Not in the sense that he doesn't hold strong convictions but that he seems to just go from person to person and issue to issue as it comes up. I don't remember reading anything specific that made me think town or scum but the way he posts is indicative of town to me. Will have to reread his posts again and pay closer attention for a better read.

 

14 - Turin (advised by Pray) - Vanilla Town - killed N1

Like Goldeneyes I'd like to dedicate a post to going back and reviewing Turin's posts separately at some point.