[Basic] Weasley vs Malfoy at the Ministry - Game over - Weasleys win

[csarmi]

We should consider whether it would benefit town if everyone said whether their "fakeclaims" are true.

 

Pros?

Contras?

[csarmi]

@Tina - I can assure you that I share a QT with AVM and that we are lovers. I can also assure you that I don't know his alignment. I was told (by Thorum) that my lover is Fred, but could be polyjuiced.

[csarmi]

So...you want everyone to mass claim? Scummy much?

Instead of pushing scum agenda - again - by dismissing my idea (which was more of a question at this point btw), what about discussing i, or just give one CON?

[csarmi]

PRO:

 

Town players would definitely tell the truth about that (I can't see a reason why they should like to lie). Scum could lie or tell the truth, but they would have to make a stance about that now.

 

Some information is gained which might be used later. Some information which might be lost on N1 (as we wouldn't be able to ask the dead players).

 

If all the scum players claim that their claim is the truth, we have three confirmed townies right there (the ones who claimed to have a false "falseclaim".

 

If all the scum players claim that their claim is false, we have six confirmed townies right thee (the ones who claimed to have a true "falseclaim".

 

So they have to split themselves, but no matter how they do that, we'll gain extra information on any flip and they can't ever backtrack on any claim.

 

CONs please?

[csarmi]

Also, the order of claims is completely irrelevant as maffia would already know what the townies would claim (6 would say true, 3 would say false).

 

The only downside I can see is that maffia might use the info when selecting their NK's, but I can't see how that's a problem either. The most they might achieve is that they could keep that sort of information as low as possible.

 

BTW - I do NOT say that we should mass claim our CHARACTERS (we shouldn't).

[Leelou]

What? You aren't making sense. 

[Leelou]

I'm done trying to figure you out for now and am leaving my vote there. 

[Niniel]

Too tired - I´ll be back tomorrow morning and vote then. 

[csarmi]

What? You aren't making sense.

How am I not making any sense? I'm quite tired so I'm not 100% sure I'm not missing anything there, but from what I managed to gather, it's actually anti-town not to mass claim our "trueness" right now, on D1.

[BFG]

So Csarmi wants us to massclaim whether our claims are true or false, but not characters?

[csarmi]

I'll call our given claims (the one we have to stick to) modclaims.

I'll call a modclaim true, if it's the same as the player's actual character.

 

Facts: (all mod-confirmed as far as I can tell)

 

1) There are 12 players. 9 town characters (we know which 9 exactly).

2) We know that everyone has a town modclaim.

3) We know that exactly half the modclaims are true. Thus, 6 modclaims true, 6 modclaims are false.

4) We aren't allowed to tell or even hint at our true characters. We can, however, confirm whether our modclaim is true.

 

As soon as a single player dies without us knowing whether he had a true modclaim, some information is lost.

 

Speculation:

 

If we do mass claim trueness, Town has no reason to lie about whether their modclaims are true. At least, I can see no reason why they would even think about that. What sort of harm could befell them?

 

So that's 6 true and 3 false claims from town.

 

Maffia will have a reason to lie, obviously. No matter how they align their claims, they're giving us information:

 

- if they all claim that their modclaims are true, we'll see 9 "true" and 3 "false" modclaims. As town splits 6-3, maffia must have split 3-0 and we KNOW that and thus we know that none of the players who claim a "false" modclaim can be maffia. Three confirmed townies right there.

 

- if they all claim that their modclaims are false, we'll see 6 "true" and 6 "false" modclaims. As town splits 6-3, maffia must have split 0-3 and we KNOW that thus none of the players who claim a "true" modclaim can be maffia. Six confirmed townies right there.

 

Thus, maffia have to split their claims. That doesn't give us any confirmed players right away, but the information is still there. We can re-evaluate after each and every split.

 

Also, as everyone will have claimed whether they are "true" or "false", we can use that sort of information later, no backtracking possible.

[csarmi]

Take that reasoning with a grain of salt and please consider it carefully. I might be missing something crucial as I'm not infallible and as it's 22:53 here and my mind shouldn't be working at this time at all.

 

Point out any flaws please. I don't see where I would be wrong on any of this. But this is something that has to be considered very carefully, that's why I'm asking for input.

[AVM]

Well looks like we're finally playing mafia, at least.

 

 

 

AVM, would you mind giving a character claim?  I think it will help the survivors at the end to know how many claims are real or not.

 

I would think that it would go without saying that Fred and George are lovers -- I am Fred.

 

 

Unvote, Vote AVM

 

 

Boom. You are not Fred; I'm Fred.

 

 

I have no doubt that this is true, Fred.  Some of us have to be hidden, though.

 

 

@Cloud, you lost me there.

1) What theory are you talking about?
2) Where did I say I knew AVM was town? I said AVM was my lover. No more, no less.

For the record, I believe that lynching any of us three is foolish.

 

Dude, you had your vote on me until the last few pages so don't start buddying up to me now.

 

I was talking about Tina's theory which said that there could be multiple players who had the same fake claim. I know that I'm the real Fred, and I also have him as my fake claim. AVM could be another town character, but he has to fake claim as Fred but I find the odds against him so I'm still all in for lynching him. He has also been quiet during the last page or so and I don't take that as a good sign.

 

 

Novel thought process.

 

 

Salami's play is considerably less scummy to me, but that's also through the lens of sharing a QT and the conversation in there -- something that is easily manipulated.  He could very well say the same about me.

 

Personally, my best bet is Despo.  

 

However the longer Salami and I are to stay alive, the greater the WIFOM and let's be honest -- there's no real reason for scum to take us out IF we are both town.  Their pool of major roles has been narrowed down and they can easily get a twofer later if/when they need it.  They also would have the chance that town lynches one of the two of us for fear of being scum.

 

I do sort of feel like the smarter play is removing us now simply because of the chance that either of us could be scum hiding in plain sight.  Would love to hear some insight from Verb, Leelou, etc

 

 

 

Yes, I just wanted to check that you were still saying it was a true claim, same from AVM and Cloud.
 
Also, can I ask about your QT?  Were you only able to use 'fake' claims in there?

I never said whether we had a QT or not. We do.
We didn't talk about character claims there at all. In fact, we haven't discussed anything there at all. I would assume that we could only use the "fakeclaims" there, as nothing else would make sense, yes. But I haven't actually asked Thorum about it.

 

 

Had just started to think that logically Cloud was more likely to be mafia... 

 

Can we get a VC?

 

I have no problem voting either, but would like to give some of the others chance to comment

 

 

Nothing he said was wrong.  Typically scum would use a QT to buddy up and get conversation going, best chance for manipulation.  That hasn't happened.  As I stated, he certainly isn't cleared but he wouldn't be my first choice RIGHT NOW.

 

Well, scum won't touch you now with all the WIFOM out there. Plus, Day 1 would be perfect to clear this all up if you are both town instead of later in the game when the numbers will be dwindling. 

 

Well yes...that's what I said :P

[AVM]

As for my lack of responses I work while getting my MBA and Wednesday is a big class day.

 

That said, as far as any of you know (aside from anyone I play with on JN) that could be a lie.  Or it could be true yet I'm still scum (I'm not, but scum would say the same thing no?).  My absence means nothing more than that I wasn't around.

[peacesells]

All I see is Cs trying to distract the conversation away from lynching someone to talking about claiming whether our claims are real or not.  Which is useless because scum can lie about it.

 

Cs has pulled a bunch tactics this game trying to manipulate the direction it's going.  aTe, game mechanics, mass posting to wear down town players, contradicting his QT partner...all these things lead me to believe he is scum. 

 

He is solely doing what it takes to stay alive.  That is his only agenda...not scum hunting.

[Leelou]

All I see is Cs trying to distract the conversation away from lynching someone to talking about claiming whether our claims are real or not.  Which is useless because scum can lie about it.

 

Cs has pulled a bunch tactics this game trying to manipulate the direction it's going.  aTe, game mechanics, mass posting to wear down town players, contradicting his QT partner...all these things lead me to believe he is scum. 

 

He is solely doing what it takes to stay alive.  That is his only agenda...not scum hunting.

 

Thank you. Can we lynch him now? 

[csarmi]

And we got another scum right there named Peace.

 

Do you deny that I'm right about the claiming trueness thing? If yes, on what grounds?

 

Cause what you said is BS.

[peacesells]

[csarmi]

In fact:

 

Vote Peace.

 

Leelou looks scum too based on her responses. They are both clever players. Only one reason I can see for them dismissing the claim agenda * they're maffia.

[Verbal32]

 

 

 

George Weasley, Town, Lover

 
Why hello there bro

 

 

Honestly, I have no idea how you even managed to miss this lol.

 

 

Dude, like 4 other people can all claim to be his brother, lol.

 

 

 

Leelou: I don't care what you like or what you think.

I'm sitting at work at 9pm, have 8 more hours of work to do on this bloody project that I have to finish by tomorrow morning, I am sick, tired, and as I've stated already, I've completely had enough of this game by yesterday (in fact, I'd have replaced out if I could), and the only thing that has me going here is that as a townie as a lover I have responsibilities and I'm not one to let that go.

 

Do you need a tissue?

[Verbal32]

In fact:

 

Vote Peace.

 

Leelou looks scum too based on her responses. They are both clever players. Only one reason I can see for them dismissing the claim agenda * they're maffia.

 

I don't think the claim idea will work.  I guess I'm scum with Peace & Leelou.  Look how easy this game became!

 

Vote: Salami

[Verbal32]

FTR, I think it is likely one of the Lovers is scum, which I believe was AVM's thought process.  I concur.

[csarmi]

@AVM - can we get a straight answer on whether your modclaim is the same as your character? No wriggling around it pls. Read back up but Thorum was very straightforward about that being allowed.

[csarmi]

Another one.

 

Stupidity can't go that far.

 

Verbal, your points please? Cause you're vote is terrible.

 

In a hurry to deny town info, are we?

[csarmi]

Anyway AVM made it clear to me in the QT - if his posts here aren't indicative of that that his real character is not the same as his modclaim.

 

FYI.