The Waking Dead Seaon 4

[SBoydW]

He's still a punk. Lovable punk.... But punk nonetheless.

[Nolder]

Besides the stuff with Michone I thought that was the best episode of TWD yet.

[SBoydW]

We get a little back story on the most mysterious character in the show and you don't like that part?

[Nolder]

I think they ruined Michone nearly from the getgo so yeah.

I don't care about her past. I don't even really care much about her.

We already knew from context clues that she probably had a kid and that in itself implies she had a man.

Since they aren't alive and with her we can assume things went bad and they are dead. 

We didn't need some weird dream or emo moments with her walking around with zombies to tell us any of that.

[OptimusPrime]

I think they'll kill her off before long

[John E. Kelley]

Michone won't be dying anytime soon.

[SBoydW]

CAROL!!!!

[John E. Kelley]

Judith is supposed to be dead, what b.s.

[John E. Kelley]

Really pumped that Abraham is finally making an appearance, even if it is at the completely wrong point in the timeline. Of course, the show has never had a very good record about staying true to said timeline...

[Nolder]

give me spoilers

who are these three?

[Bannakaffalatta]

Judith is supposed to be dead, what b.s.

Daryl doesn't exist, get over it.

 

 

Does it bother anyone else that everyone assumes that no one else survived, despite the fact that they have all been through hell and made it out? I get the pessimism of it all, but holy hell, there has to be a line, or honestly just end it.

[asha'he-man]

Really the only ones not looking for other people is Rick and co.

[SBoydW]

give me spoilers

who are these three?

If you can watch the talking dead after show it gives a little info about Abraham and his group. The last episode also tells a lot about them.

[Nolder]

SCREW YOU DARYL I LIKE PEACH SCHNAPPS.

 

Also I don't even want to talk about how dumb and pointless that episode was. 

I think that might have been a new low for TWD and that is really saying something.

[Harry Potter]

Blegh peach schnapps

[SBoydW]

SCREW YOU DARYL I LIKE PEACH SCHNAPPS.

 

Also I don't even want to talk about how dumb and pointless that episode was. 

I think that might have been a new low for TWD and that is really saying something.

So I'm gathering that unless someone is being whacked or a zombie is being disemboweled, you think the episode is crap. Just forget about character exploration and character building.

[Nolder]

 

SCREW YOU DARYL I LIKE PEACH SCHNAPPS.

 

Also I don't even want to talk about how dumb and pointless that episode was. 

I think that might have been a new low for TWD and that is really saying something.

So I'm gathering that unless someone is being whacked or a zombie is being disemboweled, you think the episode is crap. Just forget about character exploration and character building.

 

There was no character building. We didn't learn anything new about these two characters.

We already knew Beth had turned cold and that that had to change at some point (it did this episode but that's nothing new, we knew it was coming same as Lori's baby).

We already knew Daryl was a redneck asshole and that his life was crap before the zombie apocalypse. 

 

Like what is it you think happened that was important to the story?

 

And no actually I wanted to see what was up with Glenn and the new characters. We had zombies in the Daryl/Beth episode. I guess you didn't notice her stabbing one in the face with a bottle?

[Nolder]

And you know what? Last page I just said that the Carl/Rick episode was probably the best episode of TWD ever.

That episode had...what? Like 3 zombies in it total? Don't even write me off as someone who's just watching TWD for stupid B level gore that's BS.

[Harry Potter]

There was character building. We saw Daryl finally opening up about his past and in doing so he began to let go of it. Now, we'll see him grow. He may always be a redneck a-hole with a crap past, but that's not all he restricted to. In a world gone wrong where every breath may be your last, Daryl has discovered hope.

[SBoydW]

And you know what? Last page I just said that the Carl/Rick episode was probably the best episode of TWD ever.

That episode had...what? Like 3 zombies in it total? Don't even write me off as someone who's just watching TWD for stupid B level gore that's BS.

Yes you said it was good episode right after basically calling one of the central figures of the show ( Michonne) stupid and pointless and that any exploration of her character was pointless and you hated it.

[Nolder]

There was character building. We saw Daryl finally opening up about his past and in doing so he began to let go of it. Now, we'll see him grow. He may always be a redneck a-hole with a crap past, but that's not all he restricted to. In a world gone wrong where every breath may be your last, Daryl has discovered hope.

Yeah but didn't we already see that with Sophia and Carol? Or how about when Merle died?

I don't think this is new ground Daryl is treading. Feels like we double backed and are rehashing stuff we've already been through with him.

 

 

And you know what? Last page I just said that the Carl/Rick episode was probably the best episode of TWD ever.

That episode had...what? Like 3 zombies in it total? Don't even write me off as someone who's just watching TWD for stupid B level gore that's BS.

Yes you said it was good episode right after basically calling one of the central figures of the show ( Michonne) stupid and pointless and that any exploration of her character was pointless and you hated it.

 

I explained why though. They ruined Michone's character. All she is to me is a drone with a katana.

That's cool and all but I'm not going to care if she lives or dies. Compare to someone like Andrea. She went from weak, to suicidal, to a crack shot outspoken member of the group, to leader to assassin to...dead. That's a character arc. Michone is flatlined that they use the defibrillator on every once in awhile to give her the appearance of being a living character. She's not. She's no more alive than the zombies she kills.

[Harry Potter]

It's a work in progress. It's about humanity and struggle in the face of hopelessness. Anyone who has ever been through anything knows that you don't overcome issues in one day, you have to work at it, fight for it.

[SBoydW]

She was that way yes, but that episode saw her come away from being cold withdrawn and dead, and the next episode as well when she began to open up to Carl. That's character development and progression.

[Nolder]

Not really, it's a total rewrite.

They had a flashback and an "epiphany" moment.

I mean you can call that progression if you really want to I just call it a cop out for sloppy writing.

 

Now maybe this new Michone will be a better Michone, don't get me wrong.

But she's not the same as the old Michone and she didn't get where she is naturally.

There was no natural way to turn old Michone into new Michone. They're different characters.

[SBoydW]

People have "epiphanies" more than you think. Tragic moments typically have two consequences for people, it will either break them and and cause them to wall themselves off (especially if they're alone in the after math) or it will cause them to fight harder for life. The first time Michonne dealt with tragedy (at least that we know of) is the loss of her boyfriend/husband/lover and child. After that she was alone pressumably so she was walled off and aloof as a form of protecting herself from suffering that emotional trauma again, then there was a crack in that wall with Andrea but it never broke. Finally when she was taken into Rick's group those emotional walls began to crumble and she was starting to open up. We saw that in the scene in the prison when Beth made her hold Judith. And Michonne and Carl also formed a bond when he Carl said that they needed her in the group. So after the assault on the prison she was starting to regress, but when she saw the foot prints on the road she was drawn back to them because she had an "epiphany" or whatever you want to call it and she didn't want to be alone. So this turn around in her wasn't just a result of a singular moment and she didn't just have some light bulb "oh I guess I like these people I'll be nicer" moment, it's been brewing for a season and a half.

 

That's similar to what happened with Darrel and Beth in this last episode, we saw a man who saw himself as nothing, and a broken girl start to see things differently. Darrel had never had anyone in his life to say "hey I need you". And not just in a "hey you're useful" kind of way, but in a "you're important to me as a person" kind of way. That's what Beth did for him, and the burning of that moon shine hut, that he described exactly like his dad's place, was pretty important. He was now no longer defining him self by his past. He didn't see himself as nothing anymore.