Quality Discussion Thread

[Suttree]

It was a good yarn. I enjoyed the quality of the writing, the character development and plot structure.

As those three things, especially the quality of prose, are some of the most frequent complaints around AMoL curious for you to give examples of what you think was done well if you don't mind? I have a few portions that I thought were well done but it was an extremely uneven book overall. Mot to mention the plot structure due to the split was hurt badly. You may be the first person I've seen who has cited that as a positive. Always interested to hear a viewpoint that seems to be on the opposite end of the spectrum.

 

As for Egwene not sure how her death could be "gratuitous" as she was the only main character to die. That isn't a word you hear in relation to the WoT and character death often. The butcher bill has to be paid with at least one major character, especially given the way someone like Lan had like 3 false alarms.

 

Also when you say unhealable stilling do you mean "burned out"? We don't know if that can be healed but we've never got confirmation that it can't.

[sleepinghour]

@Flinn

 

A man thing? Come on dude. Demandred did channel with the rocks and he knew indirect weaves were effective so he had already figured a way around the medallion.. It requires a suspension of disbelief that he wouldn't have just erupted the ground under Lan's feet or any if the other hundreds of things he could have done.

 

That might not be as easy to do in close combat. There was a fair bit of distance between Alivia and Cyndane at the Cleansing, so Cyndane didn't have to worry about injuring herself when she blew up the ground. But ultimately, I think it was Demandred's pride that became his undoing. Killing Lan with the Power would be uncomfortably close to admitting there was a chance Lan might defeat him, that Demandred was "second best" with the sword. So I don't have a problem with that scene; it's perfectly in character for Demandred.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I believe the impression we were suppose to get is that Lan moved too fast and kept the assault up so Demandred didn't have time to think about channeling. 

 

He did get a few "head sized stones" thrown in, but I suspect it was an easy thing, a more complex weave would require more concentration.

 

As I said earlier, the plotline is reasonably believable, but it is quite clear that it was a plot-driven arc, not a character driven arc. 

 

The Characters acted out of character to move the plot along, the characters actions didn't drive the plot. 

 

While the Lan beating Demandred and him being 2nd best fits thematically, the Demandred plot in terms of character and circumstance reads very much like a compromise made into a series of semi-believable events. 

 

As to who is to blame: 

 

Well if Brandon (which he most likely did) had to put the arc together, I can't say I blame him for this. RJ left Brandon with a huge problem with Demandred. I am not even sure RJ would have pulled it off sufficiently himself. Leaving such a massive plotline with hundreds of channelers and a sa'angreal.... It's hard to make any defeat believable. 

[Suttree]

 

@Flinn

 

A man thing? Come on dude. Demandred did channel with the rocks and he knew indirect weaves were effective so he had already figured a way around the medallion.. It requires a suspension of disbelief that he wouldn't have just erupted the ground under Lan's feet or any if the other hundreds of things he could have done.

 

That might not be as easy to do in close combat. There was a fair bit of distance between Alivia and Cyndane at the Cleansing, so Cyndane didn't have to worry about injuring herself when she blew up the ground. But ultimately, I think it was Demandred's pride that became his undoing. Killing Lan with the Power would be uncomfortably close to admitting there was a chance Lan might defeat him, that Demandred was "second best" with the sword. So I don't have a problem with that scene; it's perfectly in character for Demandred.

I just don't see that argument working sleeping as he did use the op so it wasn't just about the sword angle.

 

@Barid

 

I think locating something, picking it up with the op and then targeting someone with it would require more conecntration than many of the other things he could have tried.

[CanUFeelTheLove?]

I agree with you. I don't blame Brandon for a lot of things, including this. And if I do place 'blame' on him for other things, much of it I spread around to team Jordan and RJ himself.

 

But, I don't want  to blame anybody. Things happen in life. RJ, most unfortunately, lost creative authority and that's that. Just like Mat needed to be in the battle to feel the pulse, so did RJ to write the books. Nobody else could have done what he would have done. This was his baby. BS came in and performed battlefield triage and saved the story for us. That's how I view this.

[Noir Ronin]

 

 

It was a good yarn. I enjoyed the quality of the writing, the character development and plot structure.

As those three things, especially the quality of prose, are some of the most frequent complaints around AMoL curious for you to give examples of what you think was done well if you don't mind? I have a few portions that I thought were well done but it was an extremely uneven book overall. Mot to mention the plot structure due to the split was hurt badly. You may be the first person I've seen who has cited that as a positive. Always interested to hear a viewpoint that seems to be on the opposite end of the spectrum.

As for Egwene not sure how her death could be "gratuitous" as she was the only main character to die. That isn't a word you hear in relation to the WoT and character death often. The butcher bill has to be paid with at least one major character, especially given the way someone like Lan had like 3 false alarms.

Also when you say unhealable stilling do you mean "burned out"? We don't know if that can be healed but we've never got confirmation that it can't.

Good yarn = The whole series, not this last book in particular. As for literary criticism, books 1-6 were the most well written and tightly structured, but generally I found no problem with the prose.

 

On Egwene, can you cite me to the rule of story-telling about "butcher's bills"? This "killing a major character during the climax" actually appears (to me) to be a trend started by Joss Whedon, rather than some time-honored custom of story-telling. Query: Is this literary device or manipulation. When it is done at the end of a book, with no opportunity to marinate the effect the death has on other characters, it is manipulation of the reader and not literary. Therefore, gratuitous. The same could be said regarding the death of Bela because there was no reaction from anyone who knew her from the beginning of the epic. Gratuitous.

[Mats Spare Hat]

The head-sized stone's thing peeved me.

Gee, never heard or have seen that before...Empire Strikes Back, much?

Better: Demandred explodes the earth beneath Lan's feet, we see the Seanchan do it all the time, and crows all oouu i'm great where are you LLlllleeeewwws

Then, mid-sentence into Demandred <3's Lews Rant, Round 5, Lan stabs him upwards through the groin & takes him(Demandred) apart below the ribcage, from being splayed out on the ground, whilst Demandred is ray-rah whoopdie-do-ing to the world, standing over his latest victim.

...Hell, you'd even get the whole angle of the true gruesome reality of combat vs. the whole blademaster wizzbang deadly dance, and you also get to avoid the yawn-worthy sheathing the sword, surrender after you're dead, already seen it copy/paste crap.

[CanUFeelTheLove?]

the problem with exploding the ground under his enemies feet is that Demandred is only 4-5 feet AT MOSt from them during a sword fight. He can harm himself when chunks of earth and stone are thrown everywhere.

[Suttree]

the problem with exploding the ground under his enemies feet is that Demandred is only 4-5 feet AT MOSt from them during a sword fight. He can harm himself when chunks of earth and stone are thrown everywhere.

Somewhat missing the point here. There are many ways he could have gotten around the amulet with inderect weaves. It's not really about the specifics of any single route. Although a simple weave of air to deflect things would have worked there. This is a channeler from the AoL after all, it's pretty absurd for people to claim there was nothing he could have done there.

[CanUFeelTheLove?]

 

the problem with exploding the ground under his enemies feet is that Demandred is only 4-5 feet AT MOSt from them during a sword fight. He can harm himself when chunks of earth and stone are thrown everywhere.

Somewhat missing the point here. There are many ways he could have gotten around the amulet with inderect weaves. It's not really about the specifics of any single route. Although a simple weave of air to deflect things would have worked there. This is a channeler from the AoL after all, it's pretty absurd for people to claim there was nothing he could have done there.

 

Maybe. Point is, throwing a chunk of dirt or a rock is less complex than other weaves. Fighting with the sword takes pretty intense concentration at the level these guys were fighting at. Demandred obviously wanted a challenge or he would have just let the 100 people surrounding them kill each of the three. So, he was just looking to cheat a little and he eventually lost.

[Stormcrown]

I'd still say Demandred cared more about proving himself.

 

Using the power to completely win the sword fight would have been Demandred basically saying he couldnt win with the sword.

 

He also had his followers watching. It's a display of dominance.

 

People seemed to really misjudge Demandred's character. His whole reason for turning to the shadow was egotistical. He had to prove he was better than Lews Therin Telamon. The one thing he was better at was battlefield tactics. He would use those tactics to prove, once again, he WAS superior. He also seemed very disconnected from the rest of the Shadow. The only person he would obey was Moridin, and he was in Shayol Ghul. If another Darkfriend told him he had to go fight Rand at Shayol Ghul, previous orders from Moridin or a suspicion that another Forsaken or Darkfriend wanted to kill Rand at Merrilor and was lying to him to take the credit.

 

Every good villian has to have power, yet flaws and weaknesses. Demandred's was pride and having to prove he was better.

 

Somewhat missing the point here. There are many ways he could have gotten around the amulet with inderect weaves. It's not really about the specifics of any single route. Although a simple weave of air to deflect things would have worked there. This is a channeler from the AoL after all, it's pretty absurd for people to claim there was nothing he could have done there.

Maybe. Point is, throwing a chunk of dirt or a rock is less complex than other weaves. Fighting with the sword takes pretty intense concentration at the level these guys were fighting at. Demandred obviously wanted a challenge or he would have just let the 100 people surrounding them kill each of the three. So, he was just looking to cheat a little and he eventually lost.

This is also a very solid point.

 

Demandred barely gave a shit if the Dark One was winning. He was blinded by the madness of the True Power. It's obvious that madness was proving he was superior. It's not rational, his pride. It's the same as Ishy saying he was the Dark One. Ba'alzaman.

[CanUFeelTheLove?]

 

I'd still say Demandred cared more about proving himself.

 

Using the power to completely win the sword fight would have been Demandred basically saying he couldnt win with the sword.

 

He also had his followers watching. It's a display of dominance.

 

People seemed to really misjudge Demandred's character. His whole reason for turning to the shadow was egotistical. He had to prove he was better than Lews Therin Telamon. The one thing he was better at was battlefield tactics. He would use those tactics to prove, once again, he WAS superior.

 

Every good villian has to have power, yet flaws and weaknesses. Demandred's was pride and having to prove he was better.

 

Somewhat missing the point here. There are many ways he could have gotten around the amulet with inderect weaves. It's not really about the specifics of any single route. Although a simple weave of air to deflect things would have worked there. This is a channeler from the AoL after all, it's pretty absurd for people to claim there was nothing he could have done there.

Maybe. Point is, throwing a chunk of dirt or a rock is less complex than other weaves. Fighting with the sword takes pretty intense concentration at the level these guys were fighting at. Demandred obviously wanted a challenge or he would have just let the 100 people surrounding them kill each of the three. So, he was just looking to cheat a little and he eventually lost.

This is also a very solid point.

 

Demandred barely gave a shit if the Dark One was winning. He was blinded by the madness of the True Power. It's obvious that madness was proving he was superior. It's not rational, his pride. It's the same as Ishy saying he was the Dark One. Ba'alzaman.

 

Nice comparison. That was the downfall of the forsaken, they're complete and utter selfishness.

[Suttree]

Again, if it all was about proving he was superior he would have never "cheated" with the rocks in the first place. It doesn't hold up.

[Stormcrown]

Again, if it all was about proving he was superior he would have never "cheated" with the rocks in the first place. It doesn't hold up.

 

Perhaps. You have theory of concentration. Fighting at the level he was....it's not like he could simply weave incredible things. A moment of opening and Gawyn/Galad/Lan would have slain him easily.

 

Simply ending the entire fight via channeling would be a sign of giving up. Saying he can't beat them with the sword. Throwing a few rocks isn't saying he can't win, just proving his ruthlessness.

 

He is also completely mad, so there is that.

[CanUFeelTheLove?]

 

Again, if it all was about proving he was superior he would have never "cheated" with the rocks in the first place. It doesn't hold up.

 

Perhaps. You have theory of concentration. Fighting at the level he was....it's not like he could simply weave incredible things. A moment of opening and Gawyn/Galad/Lan would have slain him easily.

 

Simply ending the entire fight via channeling would be a sign of giving up. Saying he can't beat them with the sword. Throwing a few rocks isn't saying he can't win, just proving his ruthlessness.

 

He is also completely  mad, so there is that.

 

I agree. The guy's not exactly rational. We do know from the book that he wants to show off his new sword skills - he says he's gotten better. He wanted to fight Randal with the blade and with their armies. That's probably because he knew that LTT outedges him in power.

And fighting blademasters definitely takes away some ability to make complex weaves. Shoot, people can't drive and text at the same time.

[Suttree]

 

 

 

Again, if it all was about proving he was superior he would have never "cheated" with the rocks in the first place. It doesn't hold up.

 

He is also completely mad, so there is that.

 

 

Good call.

 

@canu

 

No one is discussing complex weaves here. Again to suggest soemeone from the AoL couldn't have come up with something is seriously selling them short. I'll entertain the argument that he wanted to be the better swordsman, but certainly not the suggestion that there was nothing else he could have done.

[Ashaman Valen]

 

 

 

 

 

Again, if it all was about proving he was superior he would have never "cheated" with the rocks in the first place. It doesn't hold up.

 

 

He is also completely mad, so there is that.

 

 

Good call.

 

@canu

 

No one is discussing complex weaves here. Again to suggest soemeone from the AoL couldn't have come up with something is seriously selling them short. I'll entertain the argument that he wanted to be the better swordsman, but certainly not the suggestion that there was nothing else he could have done.

Just because he's from AoL doesn't mean he's invincible. I'm not sure what demandred could do other than use op to throw a rock at Lan. I mean has there been any weaves that demandred could have used in that situation that has been explored in the earlier books? BS has said that he wasn't going to invent new weaves that we haven't seen before so I'm not sure what else could have been done. Demandred was just too cocky. Remember the blademaster, jearom, getting defeated by a farmer. Let that be lesson for us all.

[CanUFeelTheLove?]

 

 

 

Again, if it all was about proving he was superior he would have never "cheated" with the rocks in the first place. It doesn't hold up.

 

He is also completely mad, so there is that.

 

 

Good call.

 

@canu

 

No one is discussing complex weaves here. Again to suggest soemeone from the AoL couldn't have come up with something is seriously selling them short. I'll entertain the argument that he wanted to be the better swordsman, but certainly not the suggestion that there was nothing else he could have done.

 

 

If he can't touch the wearer of the medallion, that leaves throwing things at him, making a gateway for him, lightning, etc. Aside from throwing things at him, all things that from what I gather are fairly complex weaves. He can't trip the guy unless he throws pushes something into him. If you have something specific that I'm not thinking of, fair enough. But, again, he obviously wanted a duel or he could have had his lackeys tear them all apart.

[Chalk]

Just out of curiousity how do you guys feel about the book in general? In my honest opinion, opinion mind you, I feel it was a good book, but not great. They way it was written, the conflicts between characters, and the sudden killing off of people for no apparent reason. Not a bad book by any means, but its not what got me hooked on the series.

[mcbernier]

Hey, I just started lurking (again) after reading the final book. Overall: I was pretty disappointed. But I'm not laying the blame on anyone. It's a very tough job to take over for another author who has tragically died. And there were a few moments that were enjoyable.

 

Now, about the "Lan killing Demandred" thing. I'm nowhere close to an expert on these books, but I have some thoughts. Forgive me if what I say is uninformed.

 

First, it's not just this particular sword fight, its the entire way that Demandred was handled. And we, as readers, are left to fill in the missing explanations. To me, it's painfully obvious that Lan should not have been able to beat Demandred in that fight. There's just no way. We can appear to D's supposed "madness" or "obsession" or whatever, but if we really have to appeal to these things to explain what happened, well, let's just say I think it's ridiculous to have a villain that has such a stupid flaw like this. We should expect more. That's my opinion.

 

In fact, the first time Demandred came into contact with the foxhead medallion (the copy), he probably should have tried overwhelming it, rather than merely shrugging his shoulders and accepting it. He should have thrown everything he had at it--which may have melted the damn thing down. That would have been more interesting to me. Isn't there precedence for this? I think I remember this considered as a possibility (by elayne?). And if there is anyone that was in a position to overwhelm it, it was Demandred in the circle with that sceptre.

 

Second, the real overarching problem is how in heck to deal with such a powerful enemy, who's sitting in a circle of 72! Throwing three (three!) sword fights at him is not the answer. The more I have thought about it, the more it seems like a tactical problem, and therefore, it is something Mat could or should have figured out. There should have been a meeting of the war leaders, discussing this very real and dire problem, with Mat coming up with a solution. There should have been an open acceptance of the fact that they were totally screwed otherwise.

 

Mat could have suggested something like the following three points, that really no character could have denied: (1) Demandred was obviously (!) too powerful to directly confront, and (2) it was equally obvious that if he was left to wander around the battlefield, their army *should* be decimated, and (3) they needed at all costs to keep Demandred away from SG. They had two basic options open. Either just directly engage him with his army (like they stupidly did), or find a way to separate him from his army, so that the two problems could be dealt with independently (divide and conquer). So, Mat should have said something like: "look, we're all bloody dead if we don't get Demandred out of here. Logain, Demandred needs LTT. Convince him YOU are LTT. Draw him the $^*^%$ out of here, let him chase you, and take the black tower with you, and any Aes Sedai you need. All you need to do is stall him, keep him away from SG and this bloody battle we're fighting right here. Demandred is too good a general to keep him here, and too powerful. When he's gone, I'll carve up the rest of his army. But the only thing that will get him out of here is if he believes you are LTT." (I leave the luring details to another person)

 

To me, this solution might work. And it would allow Logain to really earn his glory, as well as use the unusual Androl in a damn cool way, to help deal with Demandred (and explain why Androl didn't just dump another lava flow on this army).

 

Thoughts?

[Finnssss22]

Demandred was not going to chase LTT/Rand anywhere. The only reason Demandred didn't unload everything he had on the Forces of the Light in the first place was because he truly believed that LTT was there somewhere and didn't want to drain himself when (not IF in Demandred's mind) LTT came to face him.

Mat also used this in his strategy.

If someone showed up pretending to be LTT and Demandred fell for the ruse. If said imposter "ran away", Demmy would have simply started unloading on the armies until he showed back up. He wanted to face LTT on his terms.

 

Again, I think a lot of people are under the impression that Mat was going to be able to win this thing outright. That wasn't the case and Mat knew it. He was outnumbered like 3 or 4 to 1 He knew all he could do was set up to have the best possible chance to win. Mat knew right from the beginning he was going to need something extra to make it all come together.

Mat was counting on the Horn, counting on Egwene to counter the Sharan channelers, counting on the return of the Dragons firing through gateways, counting on the return of the river to split the Trollocs where he had maneuvered them and counted on the return of the Seanchan to box those split Trollocs in and destroy them.

 

Also, Lan did not "win" vs Demandred, he just didn't lose. It's exactly what happened when Lan faced Ryne in NS. Lan would have died if Mat hadn't have conducted that charge behind enemy lines.

 

I don't think anyone would debate that if "The Last Battle" was written by RJ instead of BS, it would have been detailed better but I have little doubt that the majority of the basics of what was supposed to happen with the corruption of the Great Captains and Mat's strategy at Merrilor were outlined in RJ's notes.

[mcbernier]

Demandred was not going to chase LTT/Rand anywhere. The only reason Demandred didn't unload everything he had on the Forces of the Light in the first place was because he truly believed that LTT was there somewhere and didn't want to drain himself when (not IF in Demandred's mind) LTT came to face him.

Mat also used this in his strategy.

If someone showed up pretending to be LTT and Demandred fell for the ruse. If said imposter "ran away", Demmy would have simply started unloading on the armies until he showed back up. He wanted to face LTT on his terms.

 

Again, I think a lot of people are under the impression that Mat was going to be able to win this thing outright. That wasn't the case and Mat knew it. He was outnumbered like 3 or 4 to 1 He knew all he could do was set up to have the best possible chance to win. Mat knew right from the beginning he was going to need something extra to make it all come together.

Mat was counting on the Horn, counting on Egwene to counter the Sharan channelers, counting on the return of the Dragons firing through gateways, counting on the return of the river to split the Trollocs where he had maneuvered them and counted on the return of the Seanchan to box those split Trollocs in and destroy them.

 

Also, Lan did not "win" vs Demandred, he just didn't lose. It's exactly what happened when Lan faced Ryne in NS. Lan would have died if Mat hadn't have conducted that charge behind enemy lines.

 

I don't think anyone would debate that if "The Last Battle" was written by RJ instead of BS, it would have been detailed better but I have little doubt that the majority of the basics of what was supposed to happen with the corruption of the Great Captains and Mat's strategy at Merrilor were outlined in RJ's notes.

 

Hey, thanks for the reply. Let me respond to some of the above (remember, I qualify everything I say with "I am not an expect on Wheel of Time").

 

First, I don't think it's a stretch to say that Demandred, with the proper motivation (whatever that might be), would pursue LTT. That seems to be all he cares about. Suppose this was worked into Mat's strategy to appear like he was losing the battle, and when all "seems lost," LTT (Logain) shows up on the battlefield for a "seeming" last ditch effort to wipe out Demnadred. It fails, LTT (Logain) pursposefully retreats. Demandred follows. Mat leads them to victory. Logain and androl kill Demandred. Bob's your uncle. Basically, my suggestion is just continuing with what was already in play: fool Demandred into thinking he was fighting LTT. But the way this was written or planned was (to me) subpar.

 

Second, I don't think Mat could win this outright, so I agree with you. Not with Demandred both guiding the battle and doing his giant robot thing (as another poster put it, which I thought was funny).

 

I love Lan as a character. He's got this total Cimmerian thing going on, which is awesome. And as much as Conan loves to kill wizards, I just don't see the Lan vs Demandred duel ending up like it did. Ever. Demandred should simply have dropped Lan through a gateway 1000 feet up in the sky. Or some other totally crazy trick with the power. But hey, I could possibly not have a clue what I'm talking about.

[Finnssss22]

 

 

Demandred was not going to chase LTT/Rand anywhere. The only reason Demandred didn't unload everything he had on the Forces of the Light in the first place was because he truly believed that LTT was there somewhere and didn't want to drain himself when (not IF in Demandred's mind) LTT came to face him.

Mat also used this in his strategy.

If someone showed up pretending to be LTT and Demandred fell for the ruse. If said imposter "ran away", Demmy would have simply started unloading on the armies until he showed back up. He wanted to face LTT on his terms.

 

Again, I think a lot of people are under the impression that Mat was going to be able to win this thing outright. That wasn't the case and Mat knew it. He was outnumbered like 3 or 4 to 1 He knew all he could do was set up to have the best possible chance to win. Mat knew right from the beginning he was going to need something extra to make it all come together.

Mat was counting on the Horn, counting on Egwene to counter the Sharan channelers, counting on the return of the Dragons firing through gateways, counting on the return of the river to split the Trollocs where he had maneuvered them and counted on the return of the Seanchan to box those split Trollocs in and destroy them.

 

Also, Lan did not "win" vs Demandred, he just didn't lose. It's exactly what happened when Lan faced Ryne in NS. Lan would have died if Mat hadn't have conducted that charge behind enemy lines.

 

I don't think anyone would debate that if "The Last Battle" was written by RJ instead of BS, it would have been detailed better but I have little doubt that the majority of the basics of what was supposed to happen with the corruption of the Great Captains and Mat's strategy at Merrilor were outlined in RJ's notes.

Hey, thanks for the reply. Let me respond to some of the above (remember, I qualify everything I say with "I am not an expect on Wheel of Time").

 

First, I don't think it's a stretch to say that Demandred, with the proper motivation (whatever that might be), would pursue LTT. That seems to be all he cares about. Suppose this was worked into Mat's strategy to appear like he was losing the battle, and when all "seems lost," LTT (Logain) shows up on the battlefield for a "seeming" last ditch effort to wipe out Demnadred. It fails, LTT (Logain) pursposefully retreats. Demandred follows. Mat leads them to victory. Logain and androl kill Demandred. Bob's your uncle. Basically, my suggestion is just continuing with what was already in play: fool Demandred into thinking he was fighting LTT. But the way this was written or planned was (to me) subpar.

 

Second, I don't think Mat could win this outright, so I agree with you. Not with Demandred both guiding the battle and doing his giant robot thing (as another poster put it, which I thought was funny).

 

I love Lan as a character. He's got this total Cimmerian thing going on, which is awesome. And as much as Conan loves to kill wizards, I just don't see the Lan vs Demandred duel ending up like it did. Ever. Demandred should simply have dropped Lan through a gateway 1000 feet up in the sky. Or some other totally crazy trick with the power. But hey, I could possibly not have a clue what I'm talking about.

 

 

If you recall, Demandred was "Breathing hoarsely" trying to hold off Lan and do something as simple as throwing things at him. What are the odds that he would have been able to perform the complex weave for Traveling without Lan taking his head off?

 

Besides, what the real question is, is whether the Medallion stops weaves of the True power.

If I had to guess, based on how it affected the Gholam and that Mat doesn't seem to able to be "corrupted" through his dreams with True power weaves of compulsion, I would say yes, it does protect him.

Next question though, do the copies protect one the same?

[Mr Ares]

I suppose I wasn't expecting perfection from Sanderson.

 

I was simply happy we got an ending. I really dislike and frown upon anyone who looks at the last three books and complains that Sanderson didn't do something as good as Robert Jordan. We are lucky Robert Jordan ALLOWED someone to complete it.

No-one was expecting perfection. But I dislike people who say that we should just be happy that we got an ending and leave it at that. Maybe an ending is better than no ending, but a good ending is better than a bad ending. I don't think we should have to make do. We can and should be willing to call out both authors on their failings. While Sanderson was placed in a difficult position, we don't have to make excuses for him. Let's treat him like a grown up. There are failings in his WoT books, and in his own books. We can ignore them and try to be happy, or we can offer criticism, and hope that he improves - because if he improves, that means his future works will have fewer problems, and so there will be fewer problems for us to ignore. We have respect for Brandon, and therefore try to voice our dissatisfaction in a way that helps him identify the weaknesses in his writing, and will allow him to work on those weaknesses, and thus to grow as an author. Sweeping Brandon's failings under the rug - which is what the "I'm just happy we got an ending so I won't criticise mindset amounts to" - is an attitude that does more to infantilise him that it does to help him improve, and consequently is an attitude marked by a fundamental lack of respect for him. I don't think a lack of respect is what people are trying to convey, but that's what it amounts to.

[Orange7]

Honestly, I felt that AMoL and TOM were both about average. However, I also feel that TGS might have been the best book in the series. All in all, I think that he has done a passable job, and I don't feel that it mocks him or is living in a dream world to say that his three books at least averaged about the same quality as those before them. There were issues, primarily with AMoL, but honestly, I feel that it amounted to a passable finale, and I don't feel that stating that he did a good job in any way reflects a "lack of respect" for Brandon.