THE METAL - End: Dinner for Wolves

[Darthe]

I edited it to correct my error. 2 alive for each faction.

 

This is going to be so fun!

[Andrej]

Pral is obviously not Town at this point, just look at the tone of his posts. Not to mention his has generally done nothing but tunnel me all game and park his votes. I haven't seen him around the DL once yet this game. He is scum, I don't care which.

 

BFG has done great this game keeping her nose clean but that hammer yesterday wasn't necessary. I was tempted to unvote just to ensure we went random. She's protecting herself and her teammate with that action. Probably wolf.

 

Verb has been Town this game, too Town I'm beginning to think. I would think a player like him would've likely been dead by now for his straight forwardness. Leaning wolf.

 

That leaves Des and Kaylee. Not sure which of you I think is my buddy.

[Pralaya]

I edited it to correct my error. 2 alive for each faction.

 

This is going to be so fun!

 

You deleted the awesome song 

[Pralaya]

Of course I am not on during DL. Because It is around 8 AM my time and I don't wake up that early. Nice try.

[Pralaya]

Anyway, vote des

[Darthe]

 

 

I edited it to correct my error. 2 alive for each faction.

 

This is going to be so fun!

You deleted the awesome song

Its DM mobile. This forums mobile coding is not good for any sort of advanced function like auto coding or editi g.

[Verbal32]

That is the most frivolous lynch I have seen in a mafia game till now. It won't be an exaggeration to tell that the remaining 4 scum are sitting right there in that lynch list.

And discussing who to vote for the next day. 

 

At the time of this post, weren't you doing the exact same thing?  Discussing who to vote for the next day?

 

 

 

Pral is obviously not Town at this point, just look at the tone of his posts. Not to mention his has generally done nothing but tunnel me all game and park his votes. I haven't seen him around the DL once yet this game. He is scum, I don't care which.

 

BFG has done great this game keeping her nose clean but that hammer yesterday wasn't necessary. I was tempted to unvote just to ensure we went random. She's protecting herself and her teammate with that action. Probably wolf.

 

Verb has been Town this game, too Town I'm beginning to think. I would think a player like him would've likely been dead by now for his straight forwardness. Leaning wolf.

 

That leaves Des and Kaylee. Not sure which of you I think is my buddy.

 

Dislike this line of reasoning.  I don't think I've played particularly clean this game, but that's normal (imo) for a townie.  I've made mistakes, too.  I really thought Lenlo and Pralaya were scum.  I started the train on Lenlo, and he was town.  My read was off.  I didn't like how he interacted with me that last game day.  He never posted again.

 

Here's how I look at this:  I'm town, and I have a near 100% town read on AJ.  I'm literally willing to vote any other player in the game, as they are scum.  If I'm wrong on AJ, I'm going down in flames - I understand that.  But at this point, I need to hitch my wagon to the player I think is town with me, and I've been solid-town on AJ since the Seer claim.

 

If I'm wrong again, then fine.  But this is LYLO for town here - if we miss this lynch, the game is over for town.  Hell, it might be already.

[Pralaya]

 

That is the most frivolous lynch I have seen in a mafia game till now. It won't be an exaggeration to tell that the remaining 4 scum are sitting right there in that lynch list.

And discussing who to vote for the next day.

 

At the time of this post, weren't you doing the exact same thing?  Discussing who to vote for the next day?

 

 

 

No, I wasn't.

 

Here's how I look at this:  I'm town, and I have a near 100% town read on AJ.  I'm literally willing to vote any other player in the game, as they are scum.  If I'm wrong on AJ, I'm going down in flames - I understand that.  But at this point, I need to hitch my wagon to the player I think is town with me, and I've been solid-town on AJ since the Seer claim.

 

If I'm wrong again, then fine.  But this is LYLO for town here - if we miss this lynch, the game is over for town.  Hell, it might be already.

If you were actually town, you would have thought it out better. We not only need to vote scum, but we need to vote wolf. If we lynch mafia, game over. If we lynch town, game over. The only way game can go next day is if we lynch a wolf.

[Andrej]

Vote AJ

 

If you actually are Town, then you are voting your last member here. Please restate your reasons for thinking that I am otherwise. Think through them and outside of the box. I am clearly Town.

 

Anyway, vote des

 

Why Des? You've had me as your biggest wolf read on D1&2. You say yourself that we must lynch wolves today, so why not vote me?

 

 

That is the most frivolous lynch I have seen in a mafia game till now. It won't be an exaggeration to tell that the remaining 4 scum are sitting right there in that lynch list.

And discussing who to vote for the next day. 

 

At the time of this post, weren't you doing the exact same thing?  Discussing who to vote for the next day?

 

 

 

Pral is obviously not Town at this point, just look at the tone of his posts. Not to mention his has generally done nothing but tunnel me all game and park his votes. I haven't seen him around the DL once yet this game. He is scum, I don't care which.

 

BFG has done great this game keeping her nose clean but that hammer yesterday wasn't necessary. I was tempted to unvote just to ensure we went random. She's protecting herself and her teammate with that action. Probably wolf.

 

Verb has been Town this game, too Town I'm beginning to think. I would think a player like him would've likely been dead by now for his straight forwardness. Leaning wolf.

 

That leaves Des and Kaylee. Not sure which of you I think is my buddy.

 

Dislike this line of reasoning.  I don't think I've played particularly clean this game, but that's normal (imo) for a townie.  I've made mistakes, too.  I really thought Lenlo and Pralaya were scum.  I started the train on Lenlo, and he was town.  My read was off.  I didn't like how he interacted with me that last game day.  He never posted again.

 

Here's how I look at this:  I'm town, and I have a near 100% town read on AJ.  I'm literally willing to vote any other player in the game, as they are scum.  If I'm wrong on AJ, I'm going down in flames - I understand that.  But at this point, I need to hitch my wagon to the player I think is town with me, and I've been solid-town on AJ since the Seer claim.

 

If I'm wrong again, then fine.  But this is LYLO for town here - if we miss this lynch, the game is over for town.  Hell, it might be already.

 

 

Did we just become best friends?! Not but seriously, it's fine that you dislike my logic but it's how I feel. If I had controlled the NK, I would've offed you probably N1 or N2 if we weren't on the same team just to eliminate threatening, experienced players. I'm following you on the Lenlo thing, I didn't like how he had ghosted either. I'm actually more annoyed now because he didn't really contribute to this game AT ALL! Nor did Hallia for that matter. You're right that we can't afford to mislynch today, but it isn't technically LYLO yet. And I don't get your 'Hell, it might be already.' thing.

 

Here's what happens if we lynch a wolf today:

 

1. Wolf team targets Mafia: D5 rolls around with 2v1v1. This is best case scenario for Town.

2. Wolf team targets Town: D5 starts with 1v2v1= Mafia wins.

 

If we lynch Mafia today:

 

1. Wolf team targets Mafia: D5 starts 2v0v2 = Wolves win.

2. Wolf team targets Town: D5 starts 1v1v2 = Wolves win.

 

If we lynch Town today:

 

1. Wolf team targets Town: D5 starts 0v2v2 = Mafia wins.

2. Wolf team targets Mafia: D5 starts 1v1v2 = Wolves win.

[Andrej]

Actually, re-thinking that it is pretty much already over for Town. Even if we lynch a wolf today we're still depending on them to hit Mafia at Night. So yeah... we're pretty much screwed.

[Andrej]

Here's a crazy idea:

 

Claim if you're Mafia. We'll lynch one of the wolves today and then they'll be forced to shoot one of you two tonight because if they kill Town they will auto-lose starting D5. D5 we lynch the remaining wolf and then D6 well... me and my Town buddy will lynch you, but at least you can say that you took care of the wolf team?!

[Kaylee]

There are 2 Town alive Kaylee.

 

Me and you it seems.

Sure....

 

Pral is obviously not Town at this point, just look at the tone of his posts. Not to mention his has generally done nothing but tunnel me all game and park his votes. I haven't seen him around the DL once yet this game. He is scum, I don't care which.

 

BFG has done great this game keeping her nose clean but that hammer yesterday wasn't necessary. I was tempted to unvote just to ensure we went random. She's protecting herself and her teammate with that action. Probably wolf.

 

Verb has been Town this game, too Town I'm beginning to think. I would think a player like him would've likely been dead by now for his straight forwardness. Leaning wolf.

 

That leaves Des and Kaylee. Not sure which of you I think is my buddy.

Interesting as you thought he was scum yesterday. You post above you said I was your buddy. Not sure who to buddy up to now?

[Kaylee]

As far as my reasonings...have you not been paying attention?! 

 

I'm convinced your show of fake claiming was for town cred. Why? Just look at how well it's turned out for you. You're still alive because people bought it.

 

 

Pral was answering for you the other day and his push on me yesterday I believe it was, doesn't sit right.

 

Des I'm unsure of

 

BFG has been playing pro-town

 

Verbal I'm unsure of because I haven't played much with him.

 

Basically I'm willing to vote/lynch just about anyone other than me or BFG. 

[Kaylee]

I also haven't gotten the town vibe on you AJ that everyone else seems to have gotten. You insist on acting as though you're a confirmed townie because of your "attempt to draw the NK". That doesn't sit right with me.

[Darthe]

Official Vote Count

 

AJ (1/4): Kay

BFG (1/4): AJ

Des (1/4): Laya

 

Not voting (3/6):

BFG, Des, Verb

[hazelkrs1]

Sorry about the wait, life BLOWS without a laptop. Last two times I've tried crafting one of my wot posts at work, I had to do it all covert ops and somehow in the process screwed up the formatting both times. Staying late at work just to finish this. You're welcome.

Alright so considering the situation we're in and that it might be lylo for town, I went through and did a reread.

Obviously we need to find one of the wolves. My thinking while going through the reread was that the two people to focus on should be AJ and Pray, since they are my highest "wolf" reads, but at the same time don't seem like teammates. Here's what I got, sorry if it's a bit disjointed:
 

Andrej, that seems a lot like "Damn, I slipped and I need to damage control" kind of reply.

I am not convinced that you considered both wolves and mafia as scum in your original post. If you had said that you mentioned scum by force of habit, it would have been more believable.

vote AJ

This seemed extremely opportunistic of Pray in hindsight. Yes, this whole affair did sort of start the scumhunt, but I still didn't like Pray's pursuit of AJ for this point. He continues for quite a while as well-
 

 

What's the point in distinguishing between mafia and werewolves? Anti-town is scum. Period. Pretending this is a slip is LAME.
FOS Cloud
FOS Pral

In fact...

Vote: Cloud

Opportunistic much?

Yes, anti-town is scum. But, is that what Andrej meant originally?

As I said in my post, my problem with AJ was not that he slipped but how he responded. This game is different than others because there are two teams that we have to hunt, not one. By force of habit, anyone can make a slip in the game - be it town, mafia or wolves. But, I felt AJ went into a defensive mode and going into a damage control mode, which is what made me suspicious of him.

 

Something I noticed here was that Pray rolls over the "scum=anti-town" thing quickly, as if he already knew that, and yet:
 

Hehe, let's get back to finding the scum and wolves then

This came from earlier in the game, where he apparently thinks scum only can mean mafia. If he was town, I think he would have seen that he was wrong on this issue, and then might have backed off. Instead he tries using pretty weak logic to try and continue the push on AJ.
 

@Cloud -

You guys should just consolidate and lynch me or him. I don't know if I can seriously put up with him this game if this is how he's going to 'scumhunt'

@BFG - The quote is legit.

Forgot about this AtE from day 1.
 

 

No, you shouldn't. I like that you're open minded enough to be willing to back down when you're shown something that leads you to believe otherwise. I've seen a few people who go after people and won't let go no matter what the person says

Well, if someone is not letting go, then it would mean that he is not convinced that the other guy is telling the truth. I don't think any town would keep his vote even after he believes the other guy.

 

Pray indirectly defends his own tunneling of AJ

Interesting sequence here:
 

 

I agree. I also find it interesting that he is okay with your vote. Looks like a way to try to win you over.

Yeah. This is really the only thing that's pinging. Not his failure to distinguish between anti-town elements.

 

I was wrong. This AtE is also pinging now...

You guys should just consolidate and lynch me or him. I don't know if I can seriously put up with him this game if this is how he's going to 'scumhunt'

 

Oh gross.

Since you so strongly believe that I'm anti-town, which faction do you think I belong to? I'd actually like everyone voting me to answer that. Eventually we're going to have to differentiate between the two.

Yeah. Why would we need to differentiate? That's like saying we need to figure out who is mafia and who is an SK. Screw that noise. We need to lynch ANYONE that can hurt the Town. Period. Cloud might be anti-town, but he isn't on AJ's team. And AJ isn't on Town's team. I can vote either. Right now, AJ has convinced me that he's the bigger threat.

Vote: AJ

 

Yeah ok. The order doesn't matter. I'll go ahead and:



Unvote
Vote: Cloud

Still have a huge FoS on AJ, though.

(last quote is from Yates, quote got messed up while I was writing)


Yates goes through a really quick "Unvote/Vote AJ/Unvote Vote Cloud" thing here. He said during this at some point he was fine with both being lynched, in either order (prompting me to call him out for setting up lynches). Anyhoo, in hindsight this looks like he could have been both distancing somewhat from AJ as well as trying to both setup and derail the lynch on AJ. After all, there didn't really seem to be any new incriminating evidence or cases against Cloud in the meantime while he did this.

This was one of a couple things I saw during reread that made me think that AJ is most likely Yates' teammate, which obviously would mean that he wouldn't be a wolf.
 

Intent to hammer.

Too close to DL to really go anywhere else. Let's see Cloud's flip and then how the NK works out to give us some good groundwork for tomorrow.

Any objections?

Don't like how AJ here says no other lynch is likely, yet still asks for "permission" to hammer. If no other lynch is really possible, why delay the inevitable? Looks more like he was trying to gauge reactions, see if anyone would think him scummy for hammering. Funny cause he later uses hammer votes as reasoning against others for them being scummy (including against BFG today)
 

I knew what Yates meant about the ISO feature. MS has an option where you can select a certain player and it will display all of their posts in that game by simply clicking ISO in one of their posts. It takes away all the hassle described that you brought up Kaylee.

Here's where AJ defends Yates about the ISO thing
 

 

 

I don't buy that "reveal" for a second. AJ, you are not stupid, and it would be BEYOND stupid to claim Seer on N1. The Seer is the only role town has; to claim at night, and the first night? No I don't buy it. You sir, are mafia.

I would urge the real Seer to not CC at this point. AJ's timing is proof enough against him.

No, not ok. We dont lynch him until we have a CC or the possible real seer turns up dead. If hes lying we have one in the bag, and im not risking our only PR on whether or not hes telling the truth. Hunt some scum, case other people but dont lynch AJ until we have a something definitive about whether or not hes the real Seer.

 

Frankly, I don't understand the claim at all.

If AJ is actually seer, then he would be killed. It is really stupid to claim so early in the game. With no protection, it is a sure death. I don't think wolves would take a risk and let him give a chance to read one of them during the night. There are only two wolves and every death is important. . If one of them dies, it would be very difficult to win.

If AJ is mafia, then again, it makes no sense. He would be killed and it would be a pointless sacrifice. I don't see the point of it at all. Nothing for mafia to gain.

If AJ is wolf, as Mish said, the only point of the sacrifice would be to fish out the actual seer. One counter claim and they would know who the seer it. But then it would be a very, very risky sacrifice because that leaves only one wolf and surviving till the end is extremely difficult.

All the three cases comes out as unnecessary claim. So, I am totally lost why AJ claimed. Out of the three, the third option seems more probable because of the advantage of fishing out the seer. Anyway, once the night finishes, we may have more clarity.

 

Totally forgot about this!

Pray apparently noticed Mish saying she didn't believe the claim. He then backs up that he thinks AJ was lying as well, but the fact that he was looking for dissenting opinions told me back then and tells me now very strongly that Mish dying was almost assuredly because Pray thought she was the actual Seer after reading her response to the claim. And I already made the point earlier in the thread how buddying an intended NK target is a classic scum move.
 

 

 

 

Interesting... Both mafia and wolfs are happy with any lynches that doesn´t involve one of their own. Tomorrow lets take a new look at AJ, Verb, Yates and Des.

This is a clear FoS on Tina. Of course, they are happy. What is the point of mentioning it? Unless she is trying to subtly distance herself from both mafia and wolf.

 

See my answer to Des. What do you mean by subtly distance myself from both mafia and wolf?

 

By stating a very obvious thing and from the wording you used, you seem to be trying to communicate that you are neither mafia or wolf. Especially when it is unnecessary. I am seeing it as a distancing play.

 

This seemed like reaching in hindsight, like extreme reaching. Reminds me of his earlier case on AJ.
 

 

Again? Are yall seriously not considering the protown possibilities of him false claiming Seer? I could see you not believing that he was trying to draw the NK, but to not even consider that possibility at all...

Lenlo and Pray potentially trying to derail train on Tina noted.

Are you serious? What is the need to "draw a NK" when there was no threat to the seer at all?

Anyone can see that it would have been way more positive had he not lied. The wolves could have killed mafia. By lying, he just invited a town death no matter what.
On top of that, he ran a huge risk of outing the real seer which is what finally happened.

He is not town at all.

 

Notice the incongruity of the two bolded statements. Pray tries scolding AJ about the false claim using the logic that in a game with two anti-town elements, false claiming to draw a NK will just ensure that a townie dies, instead of a scum possibly being hit.

And then he says AJ isn't town.



Basically, Pray was making a very good argument for AJ's play being anti-town, but didn't realize that his own logic prevented him from being able to truly paint him as scum. I think he finally realized this, which is why he tunneled on AJ for a couple of days only to reverse course inexplicably later on.
 

(This sucks, but I had to completely remove the big wot post of Pray's filled with spoilers, it kept bugging the formatting. The gist is he had been tunneling AJ two straight days, then switched tack to me.)

 

Here's where Pray suddenly reverts from tunneling AJ for two straight day phases to vote me. Incidentally, since he started focusing on me, Yates was NK'ed, who was against me, and then Hallia as well, who voted me the day before she was killed. I was pretty wary of someone trying to frame me, and I think I found who.

Every NK that has happened this game, Pray could have had potential motivations for. This tells me one thing. Pray is a werewolf.

Vote Pray

Thinking AJ is most likely Yates' teammate, and mafia, so needs to die, but we have to get the wolves first to have a chance.

Sorry if this was rushed at the end there btw, had to end up trimming a LOT out.

[hazelkrs1]

I feel so gimped without my laptop

 

The TLDR version of that is roughly that I think Pray is a werewolf because I see a strong correlation between him and the NK choices. He noticed and commented on Mish's response to AJ's false claim before she died, and I think killed Yates and Hallia in an attempt to frame me after he realized his tunnelling on AJ would start to look suspect.

[Kaylee]

Very good points on AJ and Pral, Despo. I'm definately willing to switch my vote. With what you've pointed out, and they're tunneling on me not that long ago over the random idea, I'll

 

Unvote Vote Pral

[Pralaya]

Now there is that much awaited team move

[Kaylee]

Now there is that much awaited team move

Unless Des is town, we're not on the same team. We just happen to agree that you're not town. Could I be wrong? Yes, but I don't think so.

[Kaylee]

With that I'm off to work.

[Pralaya]

 

Now there is that much awaited team move

Unless Des is town, we're not on the same team. We just happen to agree that you're not town. Could I be wrong? Yes, but I don't think so.

 

 

Well, you are. It is kind of pretty obvious but just needed confimation and here it came.

 

Not willing to vote Des yesterday was a big indication, which was already caught by Hallia. No wonder she was NK.

 

It is funny that Des is trying to portray me as werewolf. Obviously I would NK the one person who was not at all suspicious of me, right? Especially when every vote counts.  

[Pralaya]

Regarding AJ, the main reason I cooled down on him was after the "random lynch" argument. His pushing it is what makes me think he could be town

 

And, this post confirms it

 

Here's a crazy idea:

 

Claim if you're Mafia. We'll lynch one of the wolves today and then they'll be forced to shoot one of you two tonight because if they kill Town they will auto-lose starting D5. D5 we lynch the remaining wolf and then D6 well... me and my Town buddy will lynch you, but at least you can say that you took care of the wolf team?!

 

 

It is, like he said, a crazy but smart gambit. 

If he was mafia, he didn't have to explain it and just go ahead with it.

If he was wolf, it would be a pointless and dangerous move to even suggest it. Basically if it goes through it would reduce one person from the lynch and give out more information from the earlier posts.

Don't think he would post this as scum.

[Andrej]

So which team are you Pral?

[Darthe]

Official Vote Count

 

BFG (1/4): AJ

Des (1/4): Laya

Laya (2/4): Des, Kay

 

Not voting (2/6):

BFG, Verb