Siuan's Warder

[Abugar]

Apologies up front if this has already been discussed ad nauseam. I'm new to Dragonmount and have attempted to search the forums but could not find a discussion about this.

 

My question is about something that happened in The Shadow Rising (TSR); and I have NOT read past Lord of Chaos (LoC).

 

How/why could Siuan not sense that her warder, Alric, had been killed at the opening of the Tower coup?

 

Again, I haven't read past LoC so please don't spoil anything.

 

I'd ask that when/if you respond, let me know if you are just voicing theory/opinion or if there is legit evidence.

 

Thanks!

[Cybertrolloc]

Even an extremely charitable read of it there seems to be something up, true.

 

There's some interesting possibilities based on things you can't know for sure yet, but author explanations aren't too gratifying (Alric was held somehow--probably the power--and Sanche was distracted or at least more so than she comes off in the PoV. He was knifed after she was shielded by one of the AS there or something). My recollection of RJ and BS on that subject isn't perfect but something along those lines.

[Suttree]

Interview: Oct 5th, 2005

Robert Jordan's Blog: YET ANOTHER, IT SEEMS

Robert Jordan

For Roland Arien, a lot of people have asked questions about Alric's death. I should have made matters plainer. As I envisioned it, Alric, having sensed Siuan's extreme shock, came running to her and arrived just in time to be stabbed just before Siuan was taken into the anteroom. She should have sensed the knife going in, but that was masked by her shock. When she sees him lying there, he is dying, though not yet dead. As I said, I should have made it plainer.

 

 

[Abugar]

Cybertrolloc, Suttree, thank you both.

 

I suppose this reminds us that the books aren't canon and the authors are human.

 

Thank you for the responses.

[Pokeriser]

Alric's death is actually kind of funny in retrospect. I, for one, didn't even know Siuan had a warder until then, and suddenly the author's just handwaved his death... not to mention that it made no sense - why would it be legal to kill the Amyrlin's Warder in cold blood just because she's been deposed? Shouldn't she be forced to release her bond of him before her execution, if she's going to be executed, instead of having him killed? It was weird.

[Abugar]

I didn't know she had a warder either until then, but that didn't strike me as odd considering she was a Blue. They run around meddling and it stands to reason she'd have a warder.

 

I think the explanation by RJ in the post above satisfies the question of killing Alric. It doesn't look like he was executed legally per se, it looks more like he rushed in and in the commotion was stabbed. Sure, they could have held him with air and delt with him in accordance with laws, but it's easier if he just... dies. Siuan was subject to a kangaroo court anyway, so the coup wasn't exactly concerned about adhering to law and customs. Plus, emotions could have been high. If he was held with air and the others sisters were worried about handling Siuan, one of them could have gotten jumpy and stabbed him.

[Pinzarn]

It comes up in the reading somewhere.  It is a couple books later, and Suian is talking to Egwene, I think.  If I remember correctly, the initial shock of the situation didn't let her fell his death.  Once she was alone in the prison cell, it all came rushing back to her.

[Pinzarn]

I didn't know she had a warder either until then, but that didn't strike me as odd considering she was a Blue. They run around meddling and it stands to reason she'd have a warder.

 

I think the explanation by RJ in the post above satisfies the question of killing Alric. It doesn't look like he was executed legally per se, it looks more like he rushed in and in the commotion was stabbed. Sure, they could have held him with air and delt with him in accordance with laws, but it's easier if he just... dies. Siuan was subject to a kangaroo court anyway, so the coup wasn't exactly concerned about adhering to law and customs. Plus, emotions could have been high. If he was held with air and the others sisters were worried about handling Siuan, one of them could have gotten jumpy and stabbed him.

 

You have to remember the course of events (as we later learn them)...

 

Suian was voted out by the bare minimum vote.  So the removal of her from office was in accordance with Tower Law (or so many people were led to believe).  For her warder to come rushing in to stop it, force was justifible to stop him.  I was never under the impression that he was stabbed in the back as he strolled down the hallway, but that he was killed because he was trying to fight his way in.

[Suttree]

You have to remember the course of events (as we later learn them)...

 

Suian was voted out by the bare minimum vote. So the removal of her from office was in accordance with Tower Law (or so many people were led to believe).

Indeed, no one at the time knew the BA was involved. Even though they had the minimum number of people in attendance in order to vote, some of the deciding votes were BA.

[Mashiara Sedai]

I think it's kind of sad that Siuan's Warder is so often overlooked.  He's mentioned a few times in The Great Hunt:

 

The Great Hunt

Chapter 8, "The Dragon Reborn"

 

The Brown Aes Sedai [Verin] shifted on her chair. “The Gaidin are stiffnecked and proud, Mother, but useful. I would not be without Tomas, as you would not lose Alric. I have even heard a few Reds say they sometimes wish for a Warder. And the Greens, of course ...”

 

The Great Hunt

Chapter 9, "Leavetakings"

 

The Warder the Amyrlin was speaking to suddenly sprang into his saddle. He was at a dead gallop before he reached the wide-standing gates. She stood watching him go, and her stance seemed to urge him to go faster.

 

“Where is he headed in such a hurry?” Rand wondered aloud.

 

“I heard,” Loial said, “that she was sending someone out today, all the way to Arad Doman. There is word of some sort of trouble on Almoth Plain, and the Amyrlin Seat wants to know exactly what. What I don't understand is, why now? From what I hear, the rumors of this trouble came from Tar Valon with the Aes Sedai.”

 

If you read closely, it's not shocking to find out Siuan has a Warder.

[Abugar]

Your ability to recall that is impressive, and thank you for your post. Though, it is a bit intimidating. I am only on LoC and I often worry that my inability to retain/recall seemingly trivial details will come back to bite me in later books. Who knows what I've already missed?!?!

[Mashiara Sedai]

*lol*  Which is why I've reread the series more than eight times.  :P  Naturally, you can't soak it all in on the first go.

[Abugar]

Very true. I read up to PoD in 2003, then had to stop for a decade -- oy. I just recently picked it back up and have been re-reading. I'm on LoC now and feel like I'm experiencing these events for the first time.

 

 

I was shocked, SHOCKED, when Moiraine tumbled through the door frame with Lanfear. Now, others have hinted to me that her TRUE fate is revealed later (gee, thanks), but I was still beside myself EVEN THOUGH I'D READ IT BEFORE!

 

 

I'm just worried, as I mentioned before, that I may be missing things at times.

[Mashiara Sedai]

My sister read the series before me, so she ruined that part with Moiraine.  In fact, I knew a lot of things before I got to them in the series.  However, she stopped reading after Winter's Heart, so now I spoil things for her.  :P

 

She's ready to start a reread from the beginning, so I hope she makes it through the whole series.  I miss talking about WoT with her. 

 

I know a lot of people started and stopped at various points in their initial read.  I know it's so intimidating to look at such a huge series.  I'm just glad you came back and are trying to finish up.  For me, the conclusion was so worthwhile.  I hope you enjoy it too!

[BFG]

Hi Abugar, if you're worried about spoilers you can either post in the 'structured wheel of time discussion' or just state that you've only read to this point in the series - most posters are pretty good about not spoiling future events, although unless stated each topic already up covers all books from EotW to ToM.

 

Hope you have fun with your reread!