August 9, 2013: CONCLUDED

hazelkrs1 · August 1, 2013

IWhat reaction would you expect to you claiming I'm connected to Yates? I'm not scum, so I'm not, but at the same time I can see why you might think that.

I wasn't pointing that part out to get a reaction from you. I was making a case against you, hoping they'd join me.

Fwiw tho, if you WERE going to respond to the connection I showed between you and Yates, you could have simply said something like "Not much I can say to that. Coulda been he was trying to connect himself to as many townies as possible in case he flipped". That might have given me some pause.

Actually, no, that's wrong.

I was wondering why it would be Pralaya to cc me, but I forgot there's a venge-killer, so even if he gets lynched scum probably wins.

I think that means we should lynch Tink.

VOTE: Tink

You going back to fearmongering about the Vengeful Killer once again (Razen did the same earlier in the game) makes me like my vote on you some more.

You're just looking for the easiest lynch besides your own. Not too long ago you had town read on Tink.

serra · August 1, 2013

You know that's not true. If it were, I would have jumped on Tink directly.

If Tink were town, Pralaya most likely wouldn't have cc'ed me. It's true that I had a townread on him, but the facts say otherwise.

I'm not fear-mongering at all. If scum chooses someone to cc, it's going to be the vengekiller, and we'd rather lynch a different scum. We still don't know where that third N1 kill came from, so if we get 2 kills tonight, we would lose even if we lynched the vengeful killer...

Also, you're not going to comment on Krak? Surely you can imagine why I'm convinced he's scum here?

Verbal32 · August 1, 2013

You know that's not true. If it were, I would have jumped on Tink directly.

If Tink were town, Pralaya most likely wouldn't have cc'ed me. It's true that I had a townread on him, but the facts say otherwise.

I'm not fear-mongering at all. If scum chooses someone to cc, it's going to be the vengekiller, and we'd rather lynch a different scum. We still don't know where that third N1 kill came from, so if we get 2 kills tonight, we would lose even if we lynched the vengeful killer...

Also, you're not going to comment on Krak? Surely you can imagine why I'm convinced he's scum here?

This is EXACTLY what I'm thinking. The only way a cc comes out is if we are about to lynch a townie (serra) and his reveal would have changed our direction. The cc makes it possible we lynch serra afterall, and having the VK cc is perfect. If we lynch Pralaya, they take down a townie as well, and likely win with a NK.

If I were scum, this is exactly how I would have handled it....assuming serra is town. I'd cc him with the VK and prob win during the night phase...unless we just lynched the townie ftw.

hazelkrs1 · August 1, 2013

You know that's not true. If it were, I would have jumped on Tink directly.

If Tink were town, Pralaya most likely wouldn't have cc'ed me. It's true that I had a townread on him, but the facts say otherwise.

I'm not fear-mongering at all. If scum chooses someone to cc, it's going to be the vengekiller, and we'd rather lynch a different scum. We still don't know where that third N1 kill came from, so if we get 2 kills tonight, we would lose even if we lynched the vengeful killer...

Also, you're not going to comment on Krak? Surely you can imagine why I'm convinced he's scum here?

Jumping on Tink directly would have looked even more opportunistic.

Second line requires me to believe that you really are the Bus Driver.

Just weird that you hadn't mentioned the VK all game until now.

Bolded: Uhm... no. Care to enlighten me? I have no imagination, I must be spoonfed everything like a little babeh. Are you able to tell me? You're being awfully coy about it...

Verbal32 · August 1, 2013

That said, a Scum Serra would fakeclaim a remaining town PR anyway. So it is obviously possible we were on the right track to begin with on serra......in this instance, that makes Tiinker town, as scum would simply try to push the Tiinker train and have serra fakeclaim a PR.

We already know either serra or Pralaya is scum. The fact that the cc is potentially the VK if serra is town makes me want to either lynch serra or Tiinker today.

We avoid Pralaya because either he is: (1) the townie and therefore we lose if we lynch him, or (2) the likely VK [as the smart play by scum] and we'd probably lose in night phase.

I believe serra is town - I think we should lynch Tiinker.

Thoughts?

hazelkrs1 · August 1, 2013

I understand the logic of not voting Pral, that makes sense. Can you explain why you think Serra is town? And make a stronger case for why Tink would be scum? Pretty much all I've seen today is that he tried browbeating Chuckles too hard for his viewings. Doesn't seem like a rock solid case.

serra · August 1, 2013

I really didn't like your D2 play, Desp. I'm sure I pointed that out somewhere. You can call it OMGUS, but it was more that I found your back-and-forth on me pretty opportunistic. However, that also somewhat required peace to be scum, so yeah...

What reaction would you expect to you claiming I'm connected to Yates? I'm not scum, so I'm not, but at the same time I can see why you might think that.

Finally: gorram I think you know the case I'm trying to make against Krak, but I'm not allowed to... Not as though it matters, since we're lynching me or Pralaya today.

@mod: do I have any leeway in discussing what happened in the concluded threads?

And yes, for my reasoning to make sense of course you have to accept that I'm the bus driver, but if you believe me, I think Tink is the best lynch rather than Pralaya.

What would I gain from jumping onto Tink now if I were scum? Surely, had no one brought up the VK thing, either people believe me and we lynch Pralaya who cc'ed me, or they don't and lynch me.

hazelkrs1 · August 1, 2013

Might as well give the "why would I vote Tink now as scum" thing a rest Serra. Don't think you'll be able to sway me on that.

Way I see it, you either get busy casing, or get busy dying.

/Shawshank

Tell me why we should lynch Tink. Or why Krak is scum. Convince me. Give me every detail.

/Unusual Suspects.

Follow the Yellow Brick Road.

/Citizen Kane

hazelkrs1 · August 1, 2013

Damn. I was on such a roll.

Verbal32 · August 1, 2013

I understand the logic of not voting Pral, that makes sense. Can you explain why you think Serra is town? And make a stronger case for why Tink would be scum? Pretty much all I've seen today is that he tried browbeating Chuckles too hard for his viewings. Doesn't seem like a rock solid case.

Admittedly, the case on Tiinker is not strong. It mostly deals with him being willing to hop almost anywhere - almost as if we keep putting forth townies and he doesn't care which is lynched....

Might as well give the "why would I vote Tink now as scum" thing a rest Serra. Don't think you'll be able to sway me on that.

Way I see it, you either get busy casing, or get busy dying.

/Shawshank

Tell me why we should lynch Tink. Or why Krak is scum. Convince me. Give me every detail.

/Unusual Suspects.

Follow the Yellow Brick Road.

/Citizen Kane

*Usual Suspects

Krakalakachkn · August 1, 2013

Re: AtE, I think it is more of the player, not the alignment. Some players appeal to emotion more often than others, regardless of their alignment. I'd call that one a null tell, personally.

This.

Oooh wow was ninja'd by a CC.

I believe it too. Came too fast for it to have been scum-motivated imo. Rorschach is way too inexperienced to have known it would be a good idea to cc like that, and it came too quickly for it to have been coached.

It might have been quick, but it read sloppy. I think if it were a town CC, it would have been presented either more matter-of-factly or more incredulously. Instead Pral skirted a line between the two:

Alright, now it is clear. Serra is not the bus driver. I am.

Unless there are two, which I don't think is the case, considering the other threads.

vote serra

What is clear? That Serra is scum? You finally understand your role? You've achieved omniscience?

I'm curious as to why this was necessary to write down other than if you needed something to make your claim seem more legit. This statement attempts to flesh out your claim, but in reality it's meaningless. You're implanting doubt into your own Counterclaim, which I think smacks of self-doubt and uncertainty.

I swear, if this is another town fake CC, I'm gonna lose it.

Pralaya · August 1, 2013

What is clear? That Serra is scum? You finally understand your role? You've achieved omniscience?

I'm curious as to why this was necessary to write down other than if you needed something to make your claim seem more legit. This statement attempts to flesh out your claim, but in reality it's meaningless. You're implanting doubt into your own Counterclaim, which I think smacks of self-doubt and uncertainty.

I swear, if this is another town fake CC, I'm gonna lose it.

That Serra is scum. I had no reads on him and the town was half here and half there. Once Serra fake-claimed, it became clear.

hazelkrs1 · August 1, 2013

I understand the logic of not voting Pral, that makes sense. Can you explain why you think Serra is town? And make a stronger case for why Tink would be scum? Pretty much all I've seen today is that he tried browbeating Chuckles too hard for his viewings. Doesn't seem like a rock solid case.

Admittedly, the case on Tiinker is not strong. It mostly deals with him being willing to hop almost anywhere - almost as if we keep putting forth townies and he doesn't care which is lynched....

But I actually already disproved that part of the case. He didn't vote for Csarlami D1, and made a big show of NOT voting him. Didn't vote Cloud D3 either, although he said he'd be willing to hammer. In both cases he could have voted without receiving all that much attention.

Either way I didn't see him doing a lot of opportunistic voting on my reread.

Might as well give the "why would I vote Tink now as scum" thing a rest Serra. Don't think you'll be able to sway me on that.

Way I see it, you either get busy casing, or get busy dying.

/Shawshank

Tell me why we should lynch Tink. Or why Krak is scum. Convince me. Give me every detail.

/Unusual Suspects.

Follow the Yellow Brick Road.

/Citizen Kane

*Usual Suspects

EFFFFFF!

I lose my pop culture nerd card. Verbal, can you hold it for me?

Alright, now it is clear. Serra is not the bus driver. I am.

Unless there are two, which I don't think is the case, considering the other threads.

vote serra

Just noticed something when Krak quoted Pral's CC again (flitted past it somewhat the first time, since I was ninja'd by a lot).

Bolded italicized and underlined sentence actually is scummy as all get out. Unless there are two??? Giving himself an out even if Serra did get lynched and flipped BD. Also, we didn't see all the flips from the other threads. Coulda been 3 BD's in each thread for all we know. That's where you messed up Pral...

Unvote, Vote Tinker.

Still don't think there's a great case on him, but I now don't buy Pral's CC, and going by the smart logic that lynching him could be a mistake, lynching Tink seems like the best move.

But I would personally not mind lynching someone else, mebbe Ishy, Lenlo, or Razen. Or Hallia for that matter.

Pralaya · August 1, 2013

Just noticed something when Krak quoted Pral's CC again (flitted past it somewhat the first time, since I was ninja'd by a lot).

Bolded italicized and underlined sentence actually is scummy as all get out. Unless there are two??? Giving himself an out even if Serra did get lynched and flipped BD. Also, we didn't see all the flips from the other threads. Coulda been 3 BD's in each thread for all we know. That's where you messed up Pral...

All it was was talking about possibilities. That is how I usually post.

If Serra flipped BD, the town would have lost anyway. What is the point of pre-empting?

Krakalakachkn · August 1, 2013

UnOfficial Vote Count:

Serra (4/8): Tina, Krak, Tink, Praline

Tink (5/8): Verb, Chuckles, Rorsch, Hally, Des

Pralaya (1/8): Serra

Not Voting (5/14):

Nol, Ishy, Razen, Len, Serra

Verbal32 · August 1, 2013

I understand the logic of not voting Pral, that makes sense. Can you explain why you think Serra is town? And make a stronger case for why Tink would be scum? Pretty much all I've seen today is that he tried browbeating Chuckles too hard for his viewings. Doesn't seem like a rock solid case.

Admittedly, the case on Tiinker is not strong. It mostly deals with him being willing to hop almost anywhere - almost as if we keep putting forth townies and he doesn't care which is lynched....

But I actually already disproved that part of the case. He didn't vote for Csarlami D1, and made a big show of NOT voting him. Didn't vote Cloud D3 either, although he said he'd be willing to hammer. In both cases he could have voted without receiving all that much attention.

Either way I didn't see him doing a lot of opportunistic voting on my reread.

Might as well give the "why would I vote Tink now as scum" thing a rest Serra. Don't think you'll be able to sway me on that.

Way I see it, you either get busy casing, or get busy dying.

/Shawshank

Tell me why we should lynch Tink. Or why Krak is scum. Convince me. Give me every detail.

/Unusual Suspects.

Follow the Yellow Brick Road.

/Citizen Kane

*Usual Suspects

EFFFFFF!

I lose my pop culture nerd card. Verbal, can you hold it for me?

Alright, now it is clear. Serra is not the bus driver. I am.

Unless there are two, which I don't think is the case, considering the other threads.

vote serra

Just noticed something when Krak quoted Pral's CC again (flitted past it somewhat the first time, since I was ninja'd by a lot).

Bolded italicized and underlined sentence actually is scummy as all get out. Unless there are two??? Giving himself an out even if Serra did get lynched and flipped BD. Also, we didn't see all the flips from the other threads. Coulda been 3 BD's in each thread for all we know. That's where you messed up Pral...

Unvote, Vote Tinker.

Still don't think there's a great case on him, but I now don't buy Pral's CC, and going by the smart logic that lynching him could be a mistake, lynching Tink seems like the best move.

But I would personally not mind lynching someone else, mebbe Ishy, Lenlo, or Razen. Or Hallia for that matter.

1. I wasn't talking about Tiinker days ago - I was more looking at his actions during endgame here.

2. No prob, I'll put it with the others I have.

3. Agree not a great case, and there is obv scum among the others....I really don't have a better direction to go in right now.

Just noticed something when Krak quoted Pral's CC again (flitted past it somewhat the first time, since I was ninja'd by a lot).

Bolded italicized and underlined sentence actually is scummy as all get out. Unless there are two??? Giving himself an out even if Serra did get lynched and flipped BD. Also, we didn't see all the flips from the other threads. Coulda been 3 BD's in each thread for all we know. That's where you messed up Pral...

All it was was talking about possibilities. That is how I usually post.

If Serra flipped BD, the town would have lost anyway. What is the point of pre-empting?

Ok, now that makes you scum. We would not have lynched serra with the BD claim. Your point there has no relevance. Serra was angling to be the lynch, so he claimed. Your counterclaim wasn't that strong, and your backing of it now is making it appears yours was fake.

Verbal32 · August 1, 2013

UnOfficial Vote Count:

Serra (4/8): Tina, Krak, Tink, Praline

Tink (5/8): Verb, Chuckles, Rorsch, Hally, Des

Pralaya (1/8): Serra

　

Not Voting (5/14):

Nol, Ishy, Razen, Len, Serra

@serra: we aren't going to lynch Pralaya today for the reasons I already gave.

Krakalakachkn · August 1, 2013

Just noticed something when Krak quoted Pral's CC again (flitted past it somewhat the first time, since I was ninja'd by a lot).

Bolded italicized and underlined sentence actually is scummy as all get out. Unless there are two??? Giving himself an out even if Serra did get lynched and flipped BD. Also, we didn't see all the flips from the other threads. Coulda been 3 BD's in each thread for all we know. That's where you messed up Pral...

All it was was talking about possibilities. That is how I usually post.

If Serra flipped BD, the town would have lost anyway. What is the point of pre-empting?

If you were talking about possibilities, you would have flesh that one out more, not made it a one-liner. Not with the game this close to the end. Not with a true CC.

serra · August 1, 2013

Actually, no, that's wrong.

I was wondering why it would be Pralaya to cc me, but I forgot there's a venge-killer, so even if he gets lynched scum probably wins.

I think that means we should lynch Tink.

VOTE: Tink

Pralaya · August 1, 2013

Just noticed something when Krak quoted Pral's CC again (flitted past it somewhat the first time, since I was ninja'd by a lot).

Bolded italicized and underlined sentence actually is scummy as all get out. Unless there are two??? Giving himself an out even if Serra did get lynched and flipped BD. Also, we didn't see all the flips from the other threads. Coulda been 3 BD's in each thread for all we know. That's where you messed up Pral...

All it was was talking about possibilities. That is how I usually post.

If Serra flipped BD, the town would have lost anyway. What is the point of pre-empting?

Ok, now that makes you scum. We would not have lynched serra with the BD claim. Your point there has no relevance. Serra was angling to be the lynch, so he claimed. Your counterclaim wasn't that strong, and your backing of it now is making it appears yours was fake.

I am addressing the bolded point that Des made. If I was scum and wanted to trap Serra, I would have just counter-claimed. What would be the point of pre-empting?

Pralaya · August 1, 2013

Just noticed something when Krak quoted Pral's CC again (flitted past it somewhat the first time, since I was ninja'd by a lot).

Bolded italicized and underlined sentence actually is scummy as all get out. Unless there are two??? Giving himself an out even if Serra did get lynched and flipped BD. Also, we didn't see all the flips from the other threads. Coulda been 3 BD's in each thread for all we know. That's where you messed up Pral...

All it was was talking about possibilities. That is how I usually post.

If Serra flipped BD, the town would have lost anyway. What is the point of pre-empting?

If you were talking about possibilities, you would have flesh that one out more, not made it a one-liner. Not with the game this close to the end. Not with a true CC.

There are only two possibilities. Either there are two BD or Serra is scum. And, that is what I said

hazelkrs1 · August 1, 2013

Not playing the "If I was scum, I would..." game with you Pral. You wouldn't have preempted at all if CC'ing as town imo. Woulda looked more like this:

Serra is full of it. I'm the Bus Driver.

*proceeds to vote Serra*

hazelkrs1 · August 1, 2013

Don't buy that you would think it possible for their to be two town bus drivers for a second, not even long enough to preempt with that possibility.

Krakalakachkn · August 1, 2013

Actually, no, that's wrong.

I was wondering why it would be Pralaya to cc me, but I forgot there's a venge-killer, so even if he gets lynched scum probably wins.

I think that means we should lynch Tink.

VOTE: Tink

Sorry, forgot you don't have to unvote first.

UnOfficial Vote Count:

Serra (4/8): Tina, Krak, Tink, Praline

Tink (5/8): Verb, Chuckles, Rorsch, Hally, Des, Serra

Not Voting (5/14):

Nol, Ishy, Razen, Len

Lenlo · August 1, 2013

Alright ive been packing and getting ready to leave these past few days so im starting to catch up now. Sorry about that.

August 9, 2013: CONCLUDED

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