Kingdom Hearts Mafia - Game 1 - Destiny Islands [Mafia Win!]

[Nolder]

Voting

no one

 

Not Voting: BG, Des, Cloud, WBK, Yates, Verbal, Tiinker, Krak, Player, Hallia, Darthe, Tina, GF

 

With 13 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline.

[Niniel]

Tiinker posted my day 1 thoughts about him so no need to do it again. 

 

Ouch, another day like that.

 

Vote Darthe

 

That relentless pushing.. 

 

First vote on day 2. Rentless pushing? It looks like he just assumes that DPR is town. Which he would not know unless he is mafia of course. But now that we know that DPR isn´t town either this just looks like defending DPR. Did DPR ever mention Tiinker? Need to check that. 

 

Lol, the bickering. Bicker about shit that happens in the game instead and let it go. I'm at work for the next 10 hours.

 

Agree. 

 

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but everything that I quoted DID happen in the game thread. And I also HAVE cited other reasons for my vote Tiinker.

 

What's your point? You quoted from this game thread to talk about stuff that's related to something else entirely. And don't give me that "If you don't like it, don't read it". This is a mafia game. I like you Des, but it seems like you're taking personal offense for no reason whatsoever.

 

 

Continue to argue with Des. Altough I agree with it, it again sounds like a defense of DPR. Others did this too, not just Des.

 

And now I'm leaving.

 

 

 

Because I'm a friggin Miller, that's why >.< 

LOL

THIS AGAIN.

 

Vote Mish

 

 

Mish was long gone when he voted Mish. 

 

K. When I posted it said that we were on page 21 not page 33. Reading up then.

 

And here is his explanation. Didn´t unvote. This could be a genuin mistake. I have seen this used by mafia many times though, pretend to not knowing what is going on. 

Unvote, Vote Hallia

 

 

 

Ya know, just for the sake of ticking Darthe off.   

 

Bed time.

 

And after reading up this is his post. 12 pages +  how many there were after his last comment and this is what he posts. 

 

 

 

Unvote, Vote Hallia



Ya know, just for the sake of ticking Darthe off.

Bed time.

If I had two bullets I would shoot DRP and myself so that I didn't have to be In the same game with you.

Kidding, but plays like this are directly anti town. You've decided to go against the lynch and then leave with only hours til deadline for no purpose save to annoy another player?

DPR is totally getting his team to support him. We break him, we get info on everyone.

 

You seem to have missed the sarcasm. I obviously voted for what I think to be the better lynch candidate. I'm pretty sure Hallia is ahead of DPR in the lynch now. You tunnel brah. I'm out. <3

 

 

Sarcasm or not. There were no reason behind that vote. Now he explains that she is the better lynch candidate. Why? Oh, maybe he just threw in a bandwagon vote? If I don´t remember it wrong this was when both had equal amount of votes, at least there were not a big difference. 

 

Rofl. No laptop at the moment, back from work in 12 hours. Thoughts be posted around then.

 

 

Just got home and had dinner and it's already past midnight here. Will post when I wake up.

 

And he did, basically going after Darthe again. Ehm... 

[Niniel]

About Yates. His fake claim obviously caught us a symp. If he is mafia and mafia saw Mish´s buddying to DPR (agreeing with the night talk and not hammering him) and figured she was a symp, then "catching" her could be a good way to look town for the rest of the game. He did everything he could to stop the DPR lynch. I have only played with him once and he did a great job as mafia. I don´t believe that he would come to a new site, not knowing the rules, not looking up what a symp is etc. 

 

The first votes on Hallia were Yates, Verb and DPR. Usually mafia does spread out their votes but these are three good players that would be able to talk themselves out of suspicious situations and have a lot of self confidence. They could have all thrown theirselves on Hallia to try giving DPR another day. They know people will say that they couldn´t be so obvious etc. Just like Verb is trying to defend himself with the outwifom himself. 

 

This is just speculations so I will start with Tiinker and Verb. 

 

Vote Verb.

 

 

About my not sure list:

 

Des - don´t know if Des would throw all that day 1 crap on DPR if they were on a team together. Gambit? Initially he looked town but then his votes were everywhere yesterday.

 

Kronos - leaning more town than mafia

 

Krak - don´t know. Will read Des´s case on him when I get time. (Bf just arrived and want some attention.)

 

Yates - see above

 

Cloud - fencesitting when it comes to me on day 1. Waited a long time to vote. Voted DPR at the end, unvoted after his claim but re-voted. Did vote DPR direct on day 2 though. But then he switched to Hallia and wanted the cop to view DPR instead. (I have already fos´d Yates for trying to out the cop so not fond of this argument). 

[hazelkrs1]

GRRRRRNOOOOOO)*^@$)*ypif:k*)_y@#h:knfkj(@pikn{oj# 

 

DM just ate a huge friggin post of mine. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF.

 

Gah w/e I'll try getting it again later. To at least quote the stuff I wanted to quote. I'll get the gist of it out in a sec.

 

Basically I think Yates is mafia after all.

 

To respond to Tina: Yes, my votes were all over the place yesterday. Would you like me to explain the rationale behind each vote?

 

I think our lynch today should be between Tiinker, Krak, Yates, and Verb. I'll post my stuff on Yates in a sec and vote.

[hazelkrs1]

Ok, case on Yates. Sorry if the quotes are messed up or formatted weird, had to do some scrambled c'ping. 

 

So basically I was kicking myself for not thinking of this earlier. And surprised no one else had mentioned this as a possibility.

 

WoT IF.... Yates did that whole fake viewing thing on Mish to derail the train on DPR.

 

 

DPR was one vote away from being lynched day 1, this means that if the mafia team was going to try and prevent his lynch the next day they'd have to try something drastic.

 

When Yates faked his viewing and Mish folded like a deck of cards, he turned into Mr. Cheerleader himself. Was practically doing somersalts in the thread he was so proud of himself. After Mish flipped scum however, his reaction was actually somewhat... muted. Incidentally, this could also give an explanation for why Mish committed hari kari like she did. She could have been frustrated that she was being railroaded by her own teammates. Mish is normally not unsportsmanlike in any way, so this explanation could fit, possibly.

 

That is speculation however, so onto hard evidence.

 

I think that after Mish flipped scum, Yates felt he had to go all in to try and save DPR. I think he was trying the "hiding in plain sight" strategy. Defend someone hard enough, and even if they get caught, people don't believe that you would actually defend a teammate that hard. Something else that Yates seems to play on is the confused DM newbie angle, but there's something funny about that...

 

 

I agree with ya there Verb. No one would know she was a symp, I don't think. So for all your "she's bussing" that's a bunch of bologna. Also could someone be awesome and help me remember how to use the codes for red and bold? 

Well, I have two thoughts on this:

1. Are you saying a sympathizer - that flipped scum - isn't actually scum?

2. Are you saying that scum wouldn't know the scum team?

 

Here he uses the full word for the role, not the abbreviation that almost everyone uses, and pretty much had used up to this point.

 

I think Yates confusion over the role could have either been rehearsed, or genuine confusion that he tried using to his advantage.

 

 

Get that niller town!

This vanilla claim is almost on par with the miller claim.

 

Why everyone is ignoring the fact that if DPR is a Beloved Princess we are just helping the scumz is beyond me. 

Why everyone is ignoring the fact the DPR's alignment is resolvable is equally baffling.

Why everyone is ignoring the fact DPR would have been last night's investigation target and no investigator [*hint* *hint*] has come forward with a guilty on him means he's either a GF [highly unlikely], was redirected [equally unlikely], or actually Town is really troubling.

 

Do I have to fake an innocent cop result on DPR to get it to sink in that a DPR lynch is going to end badly for us?

 

 

First of all, Yates pushes the "let DPR live so he can be vetted" angle HARD. A couple of other people I'm suspicious of (Tink, Krak) were pushing this as well. In fact, I'm actually somewhat surprised that DPR didn't flip as a GF or Mirror or something like that. This leads me to believe that the mafia team could possibly have some kind of redirect type ability, like a Bus Driver or something. That is just speculation however. 

 

Second, this post is BLATANT rolefishing. In fact, it's actually kind of past that. Yates is practically begging an investigative type role to come forward.

 

Lastly, the wording of the last sentence is slightly peculiar. "fake an innocent cop result on DPR". I get that he was talking about faking the viewing, but in a way this could actually be a slip. That he knew DPR was scum and that any innocent result on him would have to be "faked". Why not just say "Am I going to have to fake a viewing on DPR to get yall to back off?". I realize this point is a bit of a stretch, but it also could be on the mark. Either way, I think the first two points are pretty solid.

 

 

Also, Yates did you really claim Miller?

I said what I said.  Let the night figure it out.

 

 

 

Ohhhhh yeahhhhhhhh I almost forgot about the Miller claim. I'm running out of time here so I have to make this short. 

 

Yates was very cryptic about his Miller claim. Never outright claimed it, he implied that he was and didn't believe there would be two in the game. Then when Darthe questions him directly, Yates acts all mysterious.

 

Then there's the fact that he claimed without any kind of pressure whatsoever. Plus, the play would be extremely strange to say the least, for an actual Miller. If he was a Miller and pulled this stunt, what if he had been wrong? What if Mish ended up flipping town? There would have been a good chance that he could have been viewed after that, viewing or not, and the manner in which he claimed would have made it very difficult to have people trust him afterwards. So there could have been two mislynches in a row. It basically makes no sense to play a Miller like he did.

 

 

 

Wait. Because I do my best thinking while getting paid to pewp...

 

We can speak at night on DM

Does this mean scum have day talk?  Also, do you guys use quicktopic or a private message thread?

 

 

Uses the confused DM newbie angle again. Verb answered him btw, for what it's worth.

 

Don't have time to do a quick synopsis on this case, but yeah, I'm def thinking there's a strong possibility that Yates is scum after all.

[hazelkrs1]

Tina, I LERVE your last few posts. I think you missed a few little snippets about Tiinker, but I don't recall if any of them were huge or not. Either way I have a solid town read on you now.

 

Imo, the lynch for today should be between 4 people and 4 people only:

 

Tiinker, Krak, Yates, and Verb.

 

hrmmmmmm meh I guess I'll get a train started on Tiinker to mebbe set up some competing trains. Yates' case is a little... out there in some respects (not that I think it's weak at all), and Krak I think has a good case against him but not quite as strong as Verb or Tinkers.

 

Vote Tinker

[Nolder]

Voting

Tiinker - Des (1)

Verbal - Tina (1)

 

Not Voting: BG, Cloud, WBK, Yates, Verbal, Tiinker, Krak, Player, Hallia, Darthe, GF

 

With 13 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline.

[Yates]

Does anyone have a clue why Peace was the NK?

One of 3 reasons:

 

1. Reads

2. WIFOM

3. PR Breadcrumb

 

Will look at this in a bit. First I have to make my "Why Yates is Town/the Yates Case is Full of Fail" defense post so I can move on with the day.

[Verbal32]

Tina, damn...nice job.

 

But the foundation of it rests on me focusing on myself a lot and defending without a lot of votes on me....which is a very valid point.  I don't think you are seeing the obvious reasoning there, though.  I don't have information like scum does.  I don't know who is town and who is scum, except for myself and whatever my role (if I have one, lol) allows me to know.

 

My point is that I know how fast trains can explode - I KNOW my own defense, so I kept at it.  The only pressure vote I placed was on Hallia.  There was an existing case on her, but I didn't vote her because of that.

 

Re: DPR, well....yeah.  I basically defended him by not voting him.  I thought I was right.  I wasn't.  If I swing for that, so be it.  But Hallia's train built, and then ebbed and flowed with the day alongside DPR's.  I was operating under the impression that one of them was scum, and I chose wrong.  Based on the defense Darthe posted of Hallia, and the fact that DPR flipped scum, I'm not voting Hallia.  I think Darthe's read on her is correct.

 

As for your vote, you are voting me because I defended myself a lot, and was wrong on DPR.  Hell, the case yesterday on me hesitating to vote Mish was probably based on scummier behavior from me.  This behavior you're voting me for is townie - lack of information on my part and therefore defending even 1-2 votes, and also choosing the wrong side between 2 lynches.  I very much doubt both were scum.

 

Admittedly, I did not focus a bunch on anything other than what I've stated.  I'm obviously not playing a clean game here.  I'm also not surprised - I have very limited information.  If you think that's enough to lynch, there isn't much else I can say to defend without repeating myself.

[Yates]

Why Yates is Town/the Yates Case is Full of Fail!

 

I'll spoiler this as not to clutter up the thread. Suffice it to say, this is my defense post and I'm not going to spend all day doing that when I can be doing more constructive things.

 

Tina:

 

His fake claim obviously caught us a symp.

You're welcome?

 

If he is mafia and mafia saw Mish´s buddying to DPR (agreeing with the night talk and not hammering him) and figured she was a symp, then "catching" her could be a good way to look town for the rest of the game.

Woah. Woah. Woah. Evidence to fit the read, much? There are some HUGE holes in this argument and I'm not sure how someone can jump to as many conclusions as you are jumping to here.

 

1. If mafia saw Mish "buddying" DPR, why would they just ASSUME there was a symp?

2. If mafia saw Mish "buddying" DPR, AND assumed Mish was a symp, AND DPR was an obv lynch, why kill Mish over DPR?

3. If mafia saw Mish "buddying" DPR, and didn't ASSUME she was a symp, why not keep her alive as someone on their side?

4. If mafia saw Mish "buddying" DPR, and DID ASSUME she was a symp, why not let the easy wagon follow through and just recruit her?

 

I would really like to see answers to these questions. Also, I'll address your disbelief that I wouldn't look up "symp" in my response to Des below.

 

The first votes on Hallia were Yates, Verb and DPR.

...

They could have all thrown theirselves on Hallia to try giving DPR another day.

I will get back to your first point in a later post when I start talking about where scum would be ON the DPR lynch.

 

I think the reason for DPR jumping on the Hallia wagon is obvious. She was his counterwagon. Why would you focus on me and Verbal in your investigation considering the Hallia wagon was essentially 1/2 the playerbase -1 [or -2 at hammer]? Again, this is evidence to fit the read and that's dangerously scummy/anti-Town territory - ESPECIALLY considering you put the following qualifier in yourself "Usually mafia does spread out their votes..."

 

But yeah, in your own words, that was all speculation. Just really bad speculation that happens to paint me in a negative light while not yet commiting yourself to the Yates-scum wagon. Is it because you aren't sure if you can pull a Yates-scum wagon off yet and are testing the waters?

 

 

Moving on...

 

Desp:

 

WoT IF.... Yates did that whole fake viewing thing on Mish to derail the train on DPR.

As awesome as I am, I don't have ESP nor did Nolder tell me everyone's roles ahead of time. Your proposition that I somehow knew Mish would turn up symp is as preposterous as Tina believing the same thing. If DPR had been a godfather or some kind of awesome scum PR and Mish had been a goon? Sure. You might have an argument. If Mish had flipped Town? Yeah. Your argument would make sense. But this is a mess. Please look at my questions in the spoiler above directed at Tina for why your logic is failing.

 

I'm pretty sure I said this [or at least aludded to it] at the time but I think this needs to be made clear, a counterwagon HAD to be made. DPR was an easy lazy lynch without the Mish deal. She just happened to be the last person voting for DPR when I played my gambit so I directed it at her. The fact she claimed miller made it obvious to me that she was scum. Before you nitpick that she was a "symp" and not "scum," my point is that she wasn't Town and I knew it so I pushed for her lynch.

 

When Yates faked his viewing and Mish folded like a deck of cards, he turned into Mr. Cheerleader himself. Was practically doing somersalts in the thread he was so proud of himself. After Mish flipped scum however, his reaction was actually somewhat... muted.

What? Did you read the thread? I pounded my chest and moved immediately into my next gambit. Nothing "muted" about that. What are you expecting me to do? Spend the rest of the day talking about how awesome I am after it had just been proven? Give me a break. We had more scum to catch and we didn't have a night break in between for me to gloat.

 

Incidentally, this could also give an explanation for why Mish committed hari kari like she did. She could have been frustrated that she was being railroaded by her own teammates. Mish is normally not unsportsmanlike in any way, so this explanation could fit, possibly.

What's with you guys and all your qualifiers? "...this explanation could fit, possibly???" Please. While that isn't an unreasonable conclusion on the outset, how would you explain her saying this?

GG, go mafia, no hard feelings,

BIG grin. Not smiley. Not wink. Not plain face. BIG GRIN. I would not characterize that as the post of someone "frustrated that she was being railroaded by her own teammates."

 

Incidentally [ironicly?], that's part of why I believed DPR was Town. If symps know the scum, and Mish was a symp, Mish would know DPR was scum. You obviously agree with this as your premise is based on this understanding of the role. So I was left wondering, "why would scum Mish kill herself quickly rather than drag out the day as long as possible? Surely dragging out the day could have potentially led to a no lynch, right? So why seppuku - UNLESS she wants Town to have more time to follow through on their lynch. Who was the leading [and really ONLY] wagon at the time? DPR. Gee... why would scum Mish want DPR lynched? She wouldn't. *shrug* I was obviously wrong about DPR and can't explain why Mish got herself mod killed since it ultimatey helped Town, but I do know it doesn't fit your definition either.

 

I think that after Mish flipped scum, Yates felt he had to go all in to try and save DPR.

You say this like you weren't JUST in a game with me as scum selling out my scum buddy. Also, see very important point about the utility of counterwagons above. I'll also be expanding on that in a later post so stay tuned.

 

Something else that Yates seems to play on is the confused DM newbie angle

LOL - I would not characterize myself as a "confused newbie" and certainly don't believe my play would substantiate this bogus claim. There are, however, certain mechanics on this board and site meta that I couldn't possible know until after a game or two. You trying to turn that into some sort of a scum tell is nonsense. More on these specifics in 3... 2... 1...

Here he uses the full word for the role, not the abbreviation that almost everyone uses

OMG! I had the post up with her flip and quoted her flip! I must be scum! [epic eye roll emoticon]

I think Yates confusion over the role could have either been rehearsed, or genuine confusion that he tried using to his advantage.

I like how neither of these options is "or he could have been confused Town."

I don´t believe that Yates wouldn´t look up what a symp is even if he had never played with one before.

Seriously? How much spare time do you two think I have? You think I spent the last however many days since I joined this site doing nothing but researching your meta and memorizing roles you use that I haven't been exposed to before? I'm not saying I'm lazy, because I think you know better than that BUT let me let you two in on a little secret. I don't read the directions when I put together a bookshelf I bought from Ikea either. I just wing it. *GASP!* Then I just put the "spare parts" in a baggy in case I find out I need them later. Congratulations, you may not have found scum but you DID accurately nail me as a Man. I confess. Claim: I'm a dude.

 

Additionally, I'm not going to go back and link to all the posts that discuss symps but suffice it to say YOU GUYS aren't even sure what a symp is and you all have been playing here. I've seen at least 4 different definitions and versions of symps and none of you have actually defined this role in a tidy bow. So to try to characterize my not knowing/understanding the symp role as somehow "scummy" is hippocritical.

 

1. Yates pushes the "let DPR live so he can be vetted" angle HARD.

2. In fact, I'm actually somewhat surprised that DPR didn't flip as a GF or Mirror or something like that.

Thank you for disproving your own logic. Because 2, 1 doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Being wrong does NOT make someone scum. I feel like I have to say this in EVERY game. The safer course of action would have been to vet DPR. You guys took a gamble and it paid off this time to our benefit. More often than not you'll get burned doing stuff like that and screw over the Town by being impatient.

 

This leads me to believe that the mafia team could possibly have some kind of redirect type ability, like a Bus Driver or something.

What? Where is this coming from? That could have made sense before DPR flipped scum when I was pushing the Mish and Hallia wagons but makes no sense afterwards.

 

Yates is practically begging an investigative type role to come forward.

That's a HUGE misrep. There are two investigations as of this morning. If either of them had been guilty, I think an investigator would out BOTH results. "This person is Town and this person is Scum." That's how you play the role. What's the point in having an investigator if they NEVER reveal their investigation results?? At some point, the investigator has to claim, has to post their results, and has to hope for Town protection. In the mean time, the scum team will have to decide if they try to kill the known investigator [knowing any protective roles will be covering them] OR take out known Town [that scum can't afford to bring to LYLO]. Days 2 and 3 are absolutely the most common days for an investigator to reveal [Day 3 if there are 3 innocent results].

 

Lastly, the wording of the last sentence is slightly peculiar. "fake an innocent cop result on DPR". I get that he was talking about faking the viewing, but in a way this could actually be a slip. That he knew DPR was scum and that any innocent result on him would have to be "faked". Why not just say "Am I going to have to fake a viewing on DPR to get yall to back off?". I realize this point is a bit of a stretch...

"Bit of a stretch?" That's taffy right there. The point was, it would be a fake result as I didn't want a repeat of the whole "wait? You're a mason AND you investigated Mish?" deal. I was telegraphing my gambit, so to speak.

 

Yates was very cryptic about his Miller claim

Of course I was. Were we in mass claim mode on Day 2? At that point, I was riding pretty high on the Mish lynch. As a Town "leader" [immediately following the Mish lynch] I was expecting "guests" last night. What would be the Town motivation in answering that question? I find this ironic considering you accuse *me* of rolefishing [so you think unnecesary role claims are bad] yet can't understand why *I* wouldn't full claim. You're a mess.

 

If he was a Miller and pulled this stunt, what if he had been wrong? What if Mish ended up flipping town?

She wasn't going to flip Town and she didn't flip Town. I scumhunt with probability on my side. Odds of Mish Town were astronomically low. I'm not going to get into that but you'll find out why later in the game.

 

 

And finally to Darthe:

 

If you recall, you were still fighting for him post death. You had to or your platform would crumble and you would thus lose more credibility. Which isn't something I associate with town play.

This would be a fair point if it was hours after his flip. Go take a look at the timestamp on my post and then go look at the timestamp on the reveal post. I was in full on catch up mode and making a fury of posts at the time [as of 11:19 I was still on page 33. And it's not like I was making one liners. My last post calling DPR Town was made at 11:56. The scum flip was at 11:52. If you look at my post [particularly the broken out quotes] I think you can see I put more than 3 minutes and 30 seconds worth of thought and effort into it. I even had the audacity to take a pee break at some point during my catch up posts - just don't remember when, exactly. While I get your rationale [hell, I used that with my gambit on Kronos], it falls flat considering where I was, what was going on, and trying to play against the clock.

 

TL/DR - Yates is Town. Time to find actual scum.

[Nolder]

Just a heads up for those of you who may not have checked or realized, the deadline is just over 11 and a half hours away.

[Niniel]

Tina, damn...nice job.

 

But the foundation of it rests on me focusing on myself a lot and defending without a lot of votes on me....which is a very valid point.  I don't think you are seeing the obvious reasoning there, though.  I don't have information like scum does.  I don't know who is town and who is scum, except for myself and whatever my role (if I have one, lol) allows me to know.

 

My point is that I know how fast trains can explode - I KNOW my own defense, so I kept at it.  The only pressure vote I placed was on Hallia.  There was an existing case on her, but I didn't vote her because of that.

 

Re: DPR, well....yeah.  I basically defended him by not voting him.  I thought I was right.  I wasn't.  If I swing for that, so be it.  But Hallia's train built, and then ebbed and flowed with the day alongside DPR's.  I was operating under the impression that one of them was scum, and I chose wrong.  Based on the defense Darthe posted of Hallia, and the fact that DPR flipped scum, I'm not voting Hallia.  I think Darthe's read on her is correct.

 

As for your vote, you are voting me because I defended myself a lot, and was wrong on DPR.  Hell, the case yesterday on me hesitating to vote Mish was probably based on scummier behavior from me.  This behavior you're voting me for is townie - lack of information on my part and therefore defending even 1-2 votes, and also choosing the wrong side between 2 lynches.  I very much doubt both were scum.

 

Admittedly, I did not focus a bunch on anything other than what I've stated.  I'm obviously not playing a clean game here.  I'm also not surprised - I have very limited information.  If you think that's enough to lynch, there isn't much else I can say to defend without repeating myself.

 

Blue: I´m not voting you because you defended yourself a lot. I´m voting you because that was the only thing you were doing yesterday, except for posting some "helpful" posts and some fluff. No scumhunting. Just like now. We have 11 hours to go and you haven´t voted, haven´t even said who you are suspicious of. 

[_CLOUD]

I think Tiinker is the way to go right now. I can also see the case on Verbal and how he keeps refusing to post any game related thoughts and only defends himself, but I can't say I find him scummier than Tiinker or Hallia. I haven't played with him before so I don't know if this is how he usually plays? Darthe seems to have a very strong town read on Hallia, but she still feels off to me. 

 

 

Vote Tiinker

[Niniel]

Why Yates is Town/the Yates Case is Full of Fail!

 

I'll spoiler this as not to clutter up the thread. Suffice it to say, this is my defense post and I'm not going to spend all day doing that when I can be doing more constructive things.

 

Tina:

 

His fake claim obviously caught us a symp.

You're welcome?

 

If he is mafia and mafia saw Mish´s buddying to DPR (agreeing with the night talk and not hammering him) and figured she was a symp, then "catching" her could be a good way to look town for the rest of the game.

Woah. Woah. Woah. Evidence to fit the read, much? There are some HUGE holes in this argument and I'm not sure how someone can jump to as many conclusions as you are jumping to here.

 

1. If mafia saw Mish "buddying" DPR, why would they just ASSUME there was a symp?

2. If mafia saw Mish "buddying" DPR, AND assumed Mish was a symp, AND DPR was an obv lynch, why kill Mish over DPR?

3. If mafia saw Mish "buddying" DPR, and didn't ASSUME she was a symp, why not keep her alive as someone on their side?

4. If mafia saw Mish "buddying" DPR, and DID ASSUME she was a symp, why not let the easy wagon follow through and just recruit her?

 

I would really like to see answers to these questions. Also, I'll address your disbelief that I wouldn't look up "symp" in my response to Des below.

 

The first votes on Hallia were Yates, Verb and DPR.

...

They could have all thrown theirselves on Hallia to try giving DPR another day.

I will get back to your first point in a later post when I start talking about where scum would be ON the DPR lynch.

 

I think the reason for DPR jumping on the Hallia wagon is obvious. She was his counterwagon. Why would you focus on me and Verbal in your investigation considering the Hallia wagon was essentially 1/2 the playerbase -1 [or -2 at hammer]? Again, this is evidence to fit the read and that's dangerously scummy/anti-Town territory - ESPECIALLY considering you put the following qualifier in yourself "Usually mafia does spread out their votes..."

 

But yeah, in your own words, that was all speculation. Just really bad speculation that happens to paint me in a negative light while not yet commiting yourself to the Yates-scum wagon. Is it because you aren't sure if you can pull a Yates-scum wagon off yet and are testing the waters?

 

 

Moving on...

 

 

 

Mafia often know that they have a symp. My idea was that if you were mafia you would have killed her to get town cred for the rest of the game. That would be the reason. 

 

Why I focused on you and Verbal is that you could have all thrown yourself at Hallia to get people to join you quickly and thus forget about DPR for another day. 

 

Is there a Yates scum wagon? Where? 

 

Don´t try to take focus from Verb today, thanks. 

 

 

And your a dude. Well, that is good to know. Don´t buy the not looking up stuff anyway. 

[Yates]

Does anyone have a clue why Peace was the NK?

I'm not finding anything incriminating. Speaking from a paranoia perspective?

Lynch Yates, Tinker, and Verbal.

 

If I die. Do this for me.

Tinker I can see...Yates..not so much.

As the person pushing the DPR wagon and hard defending DPR, I think scum was fairly confident you guys would be coming after me guns blazing. Peace was the only one to push back on your lynch setup after the DPR flip. Side note: interesting you had me listed first.

 

If it's reads based?

VOTE VERBAL.

 

HALLIA NEXT

Verbal and Hallia had the most to lose.

 

What I can't understand is Hallia's "logic" pre-Mish flip. That looked like a scum buddy unwilling to bus...

 

Vote: Hallia

I hadn't considered this until right now but being wrong about DPR doesn't mean I wasn't right on Hallia. In which case, scum would have been evenly divided between the two wagons [praying for a deadline no lynch] and it would explain why Hallia couldn't come up with a better target but wasn't on the DPR wagon. It would also explain why her case didn't show up before deadline [stalling] even though she was clearly here. I could have nailed her and we could have had scum vs scum wagons. This is something I'm going to look into further.

 

Furthermore, two of your three big scum leads are people who were on both DPR lynches...

This post made it sound like you thought all the scum would be on the Hallia wagon. I think you know better than that. This would especially be the case if Hallia is scum as well. Given the high probability of the DPR lynch going through, my hunch is the scum would have been on the DPR wagon early.

 

This was the DPR wagon pre-Mish gambit: DPR - Darthe, Cloud, Des, Tina, Player, Mish

 

Following my gambit on Mish, things got shaken up a bit.

This was the Mish wagon: Mish - Yates, Des, DPR, Darthe, [kinda] Hallia, Kronos [but after the flip]

 

Day continues. If I'm looking for scum on the final DPR wagon, it's going to be one of the first 4 or 5 before the counterwagon started.

This was the DPR wagon to fruition: DPR - Darthe, Tina, Player, GF, Des, BG, Hallia, WBK, Peace (9)

 

Personally, I'll be looking at Tina and Player a little more closely. Hallia's position as well as "reason" for joining the wagon is also noteworthy.

 

@Hallia - did you ever come up with that better case you were promising me as soon as you got home? Weird that it didn't show up before the deadline...

 

 

Also - to push the envelope on my "dumb DM noob" tell, is there anything I need to know about a Darkside role? Or is that just from the series? [This one I *did* google, bt-dubs, and see what it is - just want to make sure I'm not missing anything.]

 

Vote: Hallia while I do more digging [after lunch and more input].

[_CLOUD]

The deadline is less than 11 hours away and this game has slowed down to a crawl. We need to have people voting or else all these cases won't matter.

[Niniel]

Yep. Take a look at Verbal´s post and ask me if you see any attempt at scumhunting. 

[_CLOUD]

No I haven't seen him actively hunting for scum at all. I would definitely like to hear from him who he thinks is scum and maybe even post a list or, you know, vote? Having said that, I'm more sure about my reads on Tiinker and Hallia.

[Krakalakachkn]

Regarding Tina's point on Yate's lack of knowledge on a symp.  I remember someone said they were pretty sure it was on the wiki (I think Darthe).  That was a decent part of Yates defense, so let us not forget that it is a wiki, and as such can be edited by anyone.  I'd be surprised if no one edited the mafiascum wiki for in-game purposes (i.e. Oh I had no idea that a symp........)

[Niniel]

Really? 

[Niniel]

Krak, what do you think about Verbal and Tiinker?

[Krakalakachkn]

I haven't seen much from Verb that would make me consider him town.  Tiinker I have no read on at the moment.  I'll go back and do a partial reread when I get a chance at work.

[Niniel]

Then who do you think is scum?

[Yates]

WOAH!!!

Regarding Tina's point on Yate's lack of knowledge on a symp.  I remember someone said they were pretty sure it was on the wiki (I think Darthe).  That was a decent part of Yates defense, so let us not forget that it is a wiki, and as such can be edited by anyone.  I'd be surprised if no one edited the mafiascum wiki for in-game purposes (i.e. Oh I had no idea that a symp........)

Are you being serious right now? SERIOUSLY?? Did I also edit all the symp roles out of the entire site??

[_CLOUD]

Regarding Tina's point on Yate's lack of knowledge on a symp.  I remember someone said they were pretty sure it was on the wiki (I think Darthe).  That was a decent part of Yates defense, so let us not forget that it is a wiki, and as such can be edited by anyone.  I'd be surprised if no one edited the mafiascum wiki for in-game purposes (i.e. Oh I had no idea that a symp........)

 

Actually, the Symp role is nowhere to be found on the wiki and when I just started playing I remember that I also couldn't find it and had to ask others about the details of the role:

 

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=sympathizer&go=Go

 

I'm not sure if I understand the last part of your post correctly, but are you assuming that someone would edit the an article out of the wiki as a strategy? That seems extremely far fetched to me.