Merlin Mafia [Advanced!]- Town Wins!!!

Thorum · June 12, 2013

Hallia: who are you and who did you target?

Just so I remember we still haven't gotten an answer to that: Hallia

For all clarity: I'll unvote as soon as we get her answer (well, unless she claims to be who I am).

Can someone reread Kaylee's posts. Mainly with two questions in mind:

- why did she claim vig instead of serial killer? I got the impression everyone read that claim as her having only one shot, while a serial killer obviously has a series of shots.

- who tried to strengthen her train without seeming to do so? This could have been a good tactic for mafia.

hazelkrs1 · June 12, 2013

Your grip on this game of mafia troubles me.

Unfortunately, I turned out to be correct, and the lynch train didn't . It is not because mafia never takes a game easy (which it is prodded for in the quicktopics, being mafia makes the game more interesting automatically, ... : plenty of reasons), that they cannot act like they take it easy. I planned to add that part, but got interrupted and wrote that sentence in two stretches with half an hour between... You got me there, a sure sign I'm mafia

First of all, I wasn't referring to this particular game, I meant your grip on the game of mafia in general. For someone who claims to be an old pro at it your ideas of what constitutes good scumhunting and scummy behavior are pretty terrible.

Second, I never said you saying terribly nonsensical things like "Mafia would NEVER..." made you mafia, it just makes you... well I better stop. I'm probably already toeing the "personal" line. But your reasoning isn't that good sir.

Isn't that what Wombat was doing? Maybe I read it that way. The joke voting and RVS stuff. If it isn't game mechanics then what is it? Game play?

Game mechanics discussions are basically when someone is gaming the mod- theorizing setup, how the mod would use certain roles, etc. It's usually anti-town to even attempt to discuss game mechanics early on, the only time's it's really necessary is when you have a creative mod and you have to figure out the possible path to victory.

Why would discussing game mechanics be anti-town? Usually, mafia know more about them than town does (at least in the beginning), so discussing them would at worst be a neutral thing (or even pro-town)...

Some very strange ideas slipped into mafia this last half year. It's like a lot of you have taken in a couple of ideas which you holily believe in, but which are just oh so plainly wrong. This one and the not-setting-up-players being the most blatant I've noticed so far.

And how exactly are they "oh so plainly wrong"?

Discussing game mechanics distracts from the scumhunt. Yeah, that's not good for town buddy.

ALSO, as you pointed out YOURSELF, mafia know more about the setup than town do, so they can use game mechanic discussions to insert wifom and ideas that can possibly "clear" one or more of them later. Whenever I am scum, I RELISH game mechanic discussions, because it's extremely easy to influence people into a certain way of thinking without completely incriminating yourself.

If I were her, I would have shot at Hallia. If the kill goes through, the cop dies. If it doesn't (due to doc save), you can pretend you holstered.

Vote: TGlems

His vote on Chuckles 9 hours before deadline yesterday reeked of scum trying to stay off of a town lynch.

Why not return to your vote on Razen from yesterday? And I also voted Chuckles yesterday (although it was before TG did), why not mention that?

Why would scum target the sk?

I mean chances are the sk would hit town as far as odds go...doesn't that help them in the end?

This looks to me like it could be a scummy trying to act bewildered at their own move. You can try and manipulate and dance out of a lynch, that's not really possible with a vig hit. It can help them if the vig/SK kill townies for them, but as a minority any threat to them that can be taken out is a good NK imo. I've seen plenty of mafia teams kill claimed vigs. And they didn't know there was a SK btw.

Incidentally, about the whole thing about their only being one NK and not two, it's possible that the SK targeted someone who was protected.

Why don't we go for Occams Razor for now?

Didn't see his name on the player list?

:laugh:

hazelkrs1 · June 12, 2013

Hallia: who are you and who did you target?

Just so I remember we still haven't gotten an answer to that: Hallia

For all clarity: I'll unvote as soon as we get her answer (well, unless she claims to be who I am).

Can someone reread Kaylee's posts. Mainly with two questions in mind:

- why did she claim vig instead of serial killer? I got the impression everyone read that claim as her having only one shot, while a serial killer obviously has a series of shots.

- who tried to strengthen her train without seeming to do so? This could have been a good tactic for mafia.

Sigh. You really aren't very good at this game Thorum. She said she was blocked. That looks suspicious of course, but mafia RB'ers are very common and it makes perfect sense that they would have chosen to block her. No reason for you to know who she targeted right now. And unless you're gonna CC, you really shouldn't vote a claimed cop. If she gave a character claim that seemed sketchy, THEN you could vote her. If you are the real Cop and she fake claimed, you aren't being subtle at all and could easily draw a NK by trying to be sly. Your play is EXTREMELY anti-town so far, so much so that it's actually hard for me to believe you're scum. Mafia would NEVER play as terrible as you have so far :rolleyes: ( :wink: )

And btw, claiming SK would have led to an instant lynch on her. But by all means, next time you're SK in a game with me, please claim it. And she never mentioned anything about having a limited number of shots, where would you have gotten that impression of everyone thinking that?

hazelkrs1 · June 12, 2013

So I was suspicious of a few people, but haven't really seen too much to make one of them stand out in particular. The two that I'd like to focus on today however are Razen and Chuckles. Razen seemed to ping a couple of people yesterday, but he never responded to any fos's, and now that Wombat isn't going back to Razen when he usually does follow through with a previous read worries me that there might be a possible gambit. Chuckles had pinged to me for trying to appear the helpful townie yesterday and just generally coasting by. I was suspicious of TG too however, but Wombat's recent vote on him makes me doubt that read a little bit more somewhat.

Vote Chuckles.

Way I see it, if Chuckles flips town, then TG's vote on him yesterday could have been a possible attempt at trying to follow my lead to earn my trust, and he'd be more suspect again. If Chuckles flips mafia, Wombat looks even worse and makes my fear of a potential gambit between him and Razen more likely. So he's a great info lynch imo.

WWWwombat · June 12, 2013

Des, it's not the voting Chuckles that I find scummy, it's the fact that he did it so close to deadline. TGlems said something about Basel being the only legit train but also said that he wasn't feeling it and then dropped a useless vote on Chuckles. I castigated the move at the time, but didn't straight up call it scummy as I knew there wouldn't be time to push TGlems until D2.

hazelkrs1 · June 12, 2013

Oh and GO SPURS GO!!!! We freaking WRECKED the Heat!!!!

hazelkrs1 · June 12, 2013

Des, it's not the voting Chuckles that I find scummy, it's the fact that he did it so close to deadline. TGlems said something about Basel being the only legit train but also said that he wasn't feeling it and then dropped a useless vote on Chuckles. I castigated the move at the time, but didn't straight up call it scummy as I knew there wouldn't be time to push TGlems until D2.

And Razen? You normally go back to previous reads the next day unless something monumental happens. TG's vote doesn't seem to qualify for that.

WWWwombat · June 12, 2013

And why should I follow through on a read when someone else drops the biggest scumtell I've seen this game?

Thorum · June 12, 2013

She refuses giving a character claim. Which lowers her believability enormously. Counterclaiming is not always the best course of action. Sometimes, waiting one or two days can have very good results. But no, I'm not a cop. A characterclaim will not help mafia in any way.

Way I see it, if Chuckles flips town, then TG's vote on him yesterday could have been a possible attempt at trying to follow my lead to earn my trust, and he'd be more suspect again. If Chuckles flips mafia, Wombat looks even worse and makes my fear of a potential gambit between him and Razen more likely. So he's a great info lynch imo.

What's the difference between this and "setting up a lynch", which a lot of you seem to find incredibly scummy?

Also, your not agreeing with my reasoning does not make it wrong. As shown in my previous post.

WWWwombat · June 12, 2013

Des, it's not the voting Chuckles that I find scummy, it's the fact that he did it so close to deadline. TGlems said something about Basel being the only legit train but also said that he wasn't feeling it and then dropped a useless vote on Chuckles. I castigated the move at the time, but didn't straight up call it scummy as I knew there wouldn't be time to push TGlems until D2.

And Razen? You normally go back to previous reads the next day unless something monumental happens. TG's vote doesn't seem to qualify for that.

I wouldn't call it monumental, but it's the scummiest move I've seen so far this game. Mish's stuff is "mitigated" by her anti-town meta (annoying I know, but it has to be taken into consideration). As for Razen, I still find that waffle-post super scummy, but not as scummy as TGlems' vote. Razen would be my #2 for today.

Also, go Spurs. They'd be doing the world a favor if they keep Lebron from another ring for now (Celtics fan).

WWWwombat · June 12, 2013

She refuses giving a character claim. Which lowers her believability enormously. Counterclaiming is not always the best course of action. Sometimes, waiting one or two days can have very good results. But no, I'm not a cop. A characterclaim will not help mafia in any way.

Way I see it, if Chuckles flips town, then TG's vote on him yesterday could have been a possible attempt at trying to follow my lead to earn my trust, and he'd be more suspect again. If Chuckles flips mafia, Wombat looks even worse and makes my fear of a potential gambit between him and Razen more likely. So he's a great info lynch imo.

What's the difference between this and "setting up a lynch", which a lot of you seem to find incredibly scummy?

Also, your not agreeing with my reasoning does not make it wrong. As shown in my previous post.

There's no difference imo. But I never found linking alignments to be scummy in the first place unless the conclusions are set in stone.

hazelkrs1 · June 12, 2013

Okay just a couple more Spurs memes

hazelkrs1 · June 12, 2013

And why should I follow through on a read when someone else drops the biggest scumtell I've seen this game?

That's the biggest scumtell you've seen all game? Kinda surprising, but okay.

She refuses giving a character claim. Which lowers her believability enormously. Counterclaiming is not always the best course of action. Sometimes, waiting one or two days can have very good results. But no, I'm not a cop. A characterclaim will not help mafia in any way.

Way I see it, if Chuckles flips town, then TG's vote on him yesterday could have been a possible attempt at trying to follow my lead to earn my trust, and he'd be more suspect again. If Chuckles flips mafia, Wombat looks even worse and makes my fear of a potential gambit between him and Razen more likely. So he's a great info lynch imo.

What's the difference between this and "setting up a lynch", which a lot of you seem to find incredibly scummy?

Also, your not agreeing with my reasoning does not make it wrong. As shown in my previous post.

I never saw Hallia refuse to give a character claim. You misrepresenting that seems extremely scummy to me.

Dunno what you mean by "A character claim will not help mafia in any way"

I never said "If Player X flips _____, we should lynch Wombat. You can say I'm linking, I won't deny that, but I've never found linking to be that bad, uncovering connections is just one of the tools in a good scumhunter's chest.

You never showed any reasoning why setting up lynches isn't scummy. You attempted, and failed. I responded, and showed why it's scummy, and you pretty much keep going "Lol why yall think that's scummy? New ideas are crazy yall!"

Des, it's not the voting Chuckles that I find scummy, it's the fact that he did it so close to deadline. TGlems said something about Basel being the only legit train but also said that he wasn't feeling it and then dropped a useless vote on Chuckles. I castigated the move at the time, but didn't straight up call it scummy as I knew there wouldn't be time to push TGlems until D2.

And Razen? You normally go back to previous reads the next day unless something monumental happens. TG's vote doesn't seem to qualify for that.

I wouldn't call it monumental, but it's the scummiest move I've seen so far this game. Mish's stuff is "mitigated" by her anti-town meta (annoying I know, but it has to be taken into consideration). As for Razen, I still find that waffle-post super scummy, but not as scummy as TGlems' vote. Razen would be my #2 for today.

Also, go Spurs. They'd be doing the world a favor if they keep Lebron from another ring for now (Celtics fan).

Fair enough. I was also considering voting TG, but not for the vote at the end of the day. I found his vote and case on you very contrived earlier in the day. I could possibly switch, but as I mentioned I still think Chuckles would make a great info lynch for the reasons I stated.

hazelkrs1 · June 12, 2013

I think Celtics got a bright future btw. Rondo, Bradley, and Green are all great young pieces. I think Rondo will eventually get over his emotional issues, and Doc Rivers has developed into a great coach, so as long as they keep him around they'll be competitive.

But they need to figure out what to do with Pierce and Garnett. Those guys are just too old to try and carry the load for that team.

lolguy26 · June 12, 2013

your reasoning is as legit as ever despo, i mean you've never played with me, yet you claim that im pretending to be helpful when i pretty much always do VC if i can

Thorum · June 12, 2013

On a sidenote: you can read everything two ways:

- scientifically, trying to understand why other people disagree with you;

- religiously, trying to find proof of your own opinion in what other people say

I've never been much attracted to the latter.

On Des' questions:

- Halia never told who her character is, notwithstanding her having posted a couple of time since that time. This would prove she was town, and would not help mafia. I call that "refusing", how you call that is your choice.

- Reread where I 'set up a lynch'. I talked about investigating, not about lynching. If that's the main difference between what I did and what you did, why is what I did scummy, and what you did not?

- Reread the last sentence of my last post. Disagreeing doesn't always mean the other person is wrong.

As soon as Halia says who she is, I'll probably change my vote to Wombat. He's defending me WAY too much, which means he probably knows I'm not mafia, which means HE likely IS. Does that even make any sense?

Hallia · June 12, 2013

I claimed my role. Are you really getting that up in arms because I didn't say my character? Calm yoself, sir, for I am Arthur, future King!

Thorum · June 12, 2013

unvote and vote wombat

Well, THAT's a strong claim ;D

lolguy26 · June 12, 2013

UNOFFICIAL VC

TG (1) - Wombat

Mish (1) - Peace

Tinker (1) - NotBoB

Tigs (1) - Krak

Chuckles (1) - Despo

Wombat (1) - Thorum

(should be right)

peacesells · June 12, 2013

unvote and vote wombat

Well, THAT's a strong claim ;D

Yeah..I don't get the point of what you were trying to accomplish?

wheeloftime13 · June 12, 2013

Official Vote Count

TG (1/10): Womby

Mish (1/10): peace

Tiink (1/10): Bob

Tigraine (1/10): Kraka

Chuckles (1/10): Despo

Womby (1/10): Thorum

Deadline: Friday 20:00 EST http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130614T20&p0=263&fg2=9acd79&msg=Merlin+Mafia+Day+2

lolguy26 · June 12, 2013

How could they not do it intentionally?

She claimed vigilante and even though its town alignment it still works in the sense that she's more likely to hit town than mafia so why take out someone that however tenuous is actually kind of an asset?

*sigh* it could be any number of reasons

They are new like Dap says is possible and got scared,

She was onto one of them,

Or they are trying to set up someone that she was onto

The question is, which one?

It seems like I spend more of my time in mafia games asking questions than doing anything else. My brain always sees 5 possibilities for every action. It's exhausting.

I don't like this. I don't like this at all.

vote Tig

i agree with this, i think she's selling the confused townie card too hard

vote tigs

Thorum · June 12, 2013

unvote and vote wombat

Well, THAT's a strong claim ;D

Yeah..I don't get the point of what you were trying to accomplish?

Making her claim stronger. We had someone who claimed to have an important role, of which there could have been multiple in this game. Now we have a confirmed townie (if no-one counterclaims being Arthur).

What is Tigraine doing that's scummy? Someone very unexpected was nightkilled. Only one person (so far) tried to question why, and she immediately gets two votes because she questions it ... :sad: Krak and lolguy, why was kaylee the logical choice for a nightkill in your opinion?

WWWwombat · June 12, 2013

I don't see why an uncountered cop should have to character claim. Probably doesn't make a difference, but I don't see the need.

lolguy26 · June 12, 2013

well the doc would most likely protect hal, and since she claimed vig, a fairly new mafia would do their best to take out all the kills which they cant control, hence why its the most logical choice, and im not voting her for questioning it, its more cuz she's trying too hard for the confused townie..

Someone very unexpected was nightkilled.

i dont agree with that btw, it isnt unexpected, especially in an advanced game, its normal

Merlin Mafia [Advanced!]- Town Wins!!!

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