[Advanced] The Dresden Files Mafia - Game Over - Ed loses, Verbal wins

[John McClane]

 

 

I guess I shouldn't have brought it up. What's the use in wondering if it's balanced? If it's not...well at least one side is ****ed and there will be no way to tell for sure until the game is over.

 

Luck will often impact balance too. So will mod interference, intentional or not. 

 

I think it's relevant to bring it up, it's worth the discussion. Worth talking out to vet people's logic, and in peace's case we kind of needed to discuss it because he was pushing so hard on buying into something, that he himself seems to acknowledge isn't considering all the variables for balance, etc.

 

Now... who to lynch, because this has turned into an everyone is a afraid to poop or piss situation. Let's just lynch someone, get info, get moving. It's a game...

Not true..I clearly was considering balance of the game when pushing you on your claim. 

 

 

Only in the aspect where it insinuated I couldn't possibly be the cop.

 

Where it concerned me handing out information and 3 investigative roles "confirming" people, you didn't consider it. 

 

Essentially, you leveraged balance to try to undermine me, and ignored it, and some pretty basic possibilities, when it came to demanding I tell all.

 

I can't wait to find out if you are scum, or really this dumb. You insisting I refused you out of a grudge has me leaning scum, if not I'm going to piss my pants laughing at you.

[John McClane]

 

 

I guess I shouldn't have brought it up. What's the use in wondering if it's balanced? If it's not...well at least one side is ****ed and there will be no way to tell for sure until the game is over.

Are you concerned about imbalance cause the noose is tightening by the apparent number of investigative roles?

I'm not concerned by imbalance ever really. My favorite quote goes something like "Yeah I know it's crooked, but it's the only game in town."

I love playing mafia and I will still play a game I know I will lose if I think I'll be able to have some fun doing it.

 

That said, no I am not at all concerned by the number of investigative roles and welcome the chance to be cleared finally so I don't have to listen to Ape go on and on about how I was protecting Jif because we're scummates. 

 

What exactly is going to clear you?

 

I said you protected him on D2, and are busing him today. You seem to be promising JIF is scum here. I don't buy for a second that if he flips scum, it clears you in any way. My whole case on you backs that up.

[Nolder]

Being investigated. Granted there is some doubt left due to not being sure bother reporters are town so it's not a total clear but I'll take what I can get.

 

And I'm not promising Jif is scum so don't put words in my mouth please. I think he is just like I thought Ishy was. I was wrong there and could be wrong here but I don't think so.

[Niniel]

Can't we just lynch BooBoo and move on? (If Snow gets back.) I believe he is mafia and we will get a lot of information by lynching him.

[Leelou]

Can't we just lynch BooBoo and move on? (If Snow gets back.) I believe he is mafia and we will get a lot of information by lynching him.

Why don't you just shoot BooBoo and we lynch Lenlo?

[John McClane]

Okay, we are playing this game like a bunch of wimps. We need to get some reveals out in the open. I know we aren't allow to do a mass character reveal, however, I do think we should get at least 1-2 reveals out in the open by running people up to reveal.

 

We are encroaching a competing trains scenario. I think we should isolate 2 people today, get reveals from both, lynch the one that sounds most bullcrap and then have an investigation on the other. So we LEARN from the trains tomorrow.

 

Here is the landscape of the game so far. Obviously I know of 1 other person that I've got a town read on, but I'm not tipping my hand. I spoke last night about my JIF/Verb theory. I doubt AVM is part of that, since he's been viewed twice, that'd be too convenient. Unless JIF is scum, they have a track and saw me visit AVM. It's highly unlikely. So I feel good clearing AVM. JIF and Verbal are another story, but let's not harp on this further. 

 

I would like to see competing trains between: Leelou, Peace, Rand and/or Lenlo. Any 2 of them.

 

15 players is a lot. We've barely scratched the surface of this game, we need some dead bodies to move past all this hemming and hawing. We'll never advance beyond fleeting theories if we don't kill some people.

 

We need you guys to contribute, a week of non-participation is not in the spirit of the game. If you are doing it as scum, you get zero respect, it's garbage play. If scum players are here and are contributing then bravo, I always credit non-evasive cum play. It is hands-down the bigger challenge.

 

Claimed / viewed (6):

• Ape (Karrin Murphy, cop) (reported by boo N2)
• AVM (Anna Ash, vanilla) (viewed by cop N1, reported by boo N1) - highly unlikely to be GF, since both cop and reporter got town
• Tina (claiming Vig, Kincaid) - could be SK, not likely to be 50% accurate based on flavor
• Booboo (Bob, reporter) - Bob is definitely in game, could be swayed to evil based on "who possesses" him
• Ed (Rodriguez, also a reporter) - Susan Rodriguez is likely in the game, she is introduced in books as an actual reporter, but also converted to vampire at some point
• Verb (Charity Carpenter, vanilla) (reported by boo N2) - questionable IF booboo is in fact scum

Unknown (9):

• Leelou (sheeping me earlier, asked about verbal and hedged, I press verbal and she's suddenly voting him)
• Lenlo (only one on a D1 train that wasn't Ishy, that I haven't confirmed as town, he avoided voting Ishy on D2, called my bluff on Tina D3)
• Peace (pushing incomplete logic on D3, came after me as cop, role fishing)
• Hybrid (also seemed to call my bluff on Tina D3, town read most of game except for a moment on D3)
• TGlems (arguments seem town logical, he's missed details a few times, his frustration with indecision sounds townie)
• Nolder (came at me D1 for show, D2 protected JIF, D3 voting JIF, he says he just changed his mind about JIF, but caught him lying on that because earlier he said he suspected both JIF and Ishy on D2, my question was why not vote Ishy and let someone else drive train on JIF, doesn't seem like town logic)
• Rand (he was setting up a lynch on me for today, while voting Ishy yesterday, he called my bluff on Tina)
• Katioria (posts jibberish, her logic that it's unlikely Tina is vig could be town or scum point of view)
• Turin (not much participation, but his logic seemed town today, somewhat)

[Niniel]

 

 

Can't we just lynch BooBoo and move on? (If Snow gets back.) I believe he is mafia and we will get a lot of information by lynching him.

Why don't you just shoot BooBoo and we lynch Lenlo?

Will we get as much information from lynching Lenlo? I don't think so. Why are you protecting BooBoo? You know that my kill might not work.

 

Aren't you voting Verbal?

 

Where is everyone? Katiora? BooBoo? AVM? Our mod?

[Leelou]

 

 

 

Can't we just lynch BooBoo and move on? (If Snow gets back.) I believe he is mafia and we will get a lot of information by lynching him.

Why don't you just shoot BooBoo and we lynch Lenlo?

Will we get as much information from lynching Lenlo? I don't think so. Why are you protecting BooBoo? You know that my kill might not work.

 

Aren't you voting Verbal?

 

Where is everyone? Katiora? BooBoo? AVM? Our mod?

 

I'm not really protecting BooBoo, I just don't think you are going to be able to achieve a lynch on him today. Lenlo was acting scummy and has started to get some pressure and now he's among the missing. 

 

I'm voting Verbal for his reasoning on his vote. I can easily move back to Lenlo because, I think Lenlo is most likely scum. 

 

I'd love to know where everyone is. I think Quibby is back online so maybe he can have a chance to pop in and co-mod if Snow doesn't turn up. 

[Niniel]

I'm not too much against the suggestion though. We know Booboo's role. Finding a rber or GF or whatever role the mafia might have would be good.

[Niniel]

Ninja'd. On my way to pick up Freja from school. Will be back later.

[Turin Turambar]

I still think Tina is at best SK.I do see the logic in the booboo lynch and leelou vote on verb looked opportunistic. I can switch to either

 

Going to be out of contact for a few hours soon tho. Freakin desert.

[Verbal32]

 

There's a big time game of who will blink first going on... 

 

I have 2 working theories. 

 

1. JIF is scum, and is connected in some way to some combination of AVM, Verbal, Peace and Nolder, probably doesn't include all of them but some of them are in that mix, if JIF is scum. Tina is a Vig, and Ed, Darthe and I are 3 investigative roles. 

• Verb, AVM and JIF are all rolling out the "say nothing and the townies casing you will make themselves look wrong eventually" strategy, which is scum 101. JIF does it almost every time he's scum and I'm onto him. I have further reason to support this specific theory because there are some behind the scenes things going on where JIF and AVM have gone equally silent.
• If JIF has gone dark not because he's scum but because of John Snow screwing something up, I wouldn't be surprised. Mod interference (this would actually make it the 4th time this game for me).
• AVM came here to try something new. He played super-scummy on D1, and then went dark. Pretty routine play for a Godfather prospect. Do enough to get viewed, then get off the grid. I have a hard time believing that completely shutting up was the "something new" AVM wanted to try out here on DM. Note, AVM did pop up to defend himself for "non-participation" today when called out for it. Come to think of it, so did Verbal.
• Peace has been blatantly working to extract information about roles rather than scum hunting. He did buy into my strategy of leaving both Ed and JIF alive, so did Verbal. Again, that plan was proposed as part trap - part viable. I'd personally rather lynch JIF and do away with this theory, or confirm it.
• Nolder blatantly worked to keep JIF alive on D2, and on D3 is distancing from him. Nobody needs this explained again, I hope. His reasoning is garbage, if he bothers to explain it. 
• Verbal seems to be casting a vote based upon some information he shouldn't be privy to. He randomly settled on Rand, with no explanation. I think he was tipped off. Verbal led off today setting the "one of Ed or JIF is scum" agenda. Peace fed into it a little, and AVM definitely sold it. In fact, AVM had nothing to say but that. But now Verb and Peace both bought into the keep Ed and JIF alive plan. The willingness of people to support that idea makes me think one of them is a source of misinformation.
• JIF was never NKed after revealing on D2. Yet, we see Peace explaining that he "expects scum to kill" me tonight. So, he's firm in that logic, firm enough to grill me for multiple pages to get my info before I theoretically die tonight... BUT he never once questions why JIF wasn't shot on N2? That's a HUGE ping.
• There's more to this theory... and I don't expect I've got all of them in that bunch, but if JIF is scum, then I would almost guarantee that 1-2 of them is scum with him. 
• Verbal basically wifomed me about viewing JIF, he knows if he says "do it" then I'll have to question his motives for directing my investigation like that. Very scummy move. Very.
• Best thing to do if anyone wants to get behind this theory, IMO, is lynch JIF, Peace or Verbal.

 

2. The above theory is false, and the scum is split up amongst people like Rand, Lenlo, and some others. 

• There's plenty to point back to if you want to indict some of these guys, and perhaps some of them are scum AND theory 1 is correct too.
• In particular Lenlo. He seemed to know more than he should when I bluffed about viewing Tina. Hybrid and Rand also balked at that bluff, like they knew.
• Rand was setting up the next lynch, as explained. Problem is I've seen stupid townies do that too, but usually it's about a 75% accurate scum tell when I see it.

 

The issue with theory 2 is it's too easy. If Darthe, Ed, JIF and I are all investigative roles, AND my information is passed off to ensure it's not lost when I die... then scum really never stood a chance. Add to that Tina as a vigilante, and multiple protections for the town? So far we've seen a mafia goon, and a roleblocking survivor, who is as much a threat to scum as he is to town. 

 

The moderator in me says there's no way that both Ed and JIF can be investigative roles, and I have serious questions about Tina being a vigilante too. Especially with the 50% effective thing conflicting with the character data.

 

Long story, short. I want to lynch someone to either prove or disprove theory 1.

 

Fair enough, but you're completely wild on the linking me to JiF and AVM theory.  If JiF is town, then I'm town and so is AVM - makes sense, right? (unless some wackier role is at work - but ignore that for now)

 

If JiF is scum, why does that make me scum?  Or AVM?  I can see maybe one of us, but that's too risky.  If JiF died scum, and we lynched AVM and he flipped town....you'd all come gunning for me.  Why would a scum member buss a teammate unnecessarily like that?  Doubtful.

 

Most likely scenario is that JiF, AVM, and myself are all town and your #2 theory is plausible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh it was you? That's fine then I guess. Dunno why I thought it was Peace.

 

 

Yeah, it was me. Think about the circumstances. We just came out of a night phase where only scum died. That means their shot got blocked. I know I have some protection. I assumed they shot at me since I stupidly tipped I was cop on D2. I figured any suggestion that would give scum a window into how I am protected, might get them to stick their necks out.

 

Peace bit. He bit even more when I said my results won't die with me. I mean hell, he wanted to know who the deputy is!!! 

 

I'm just miffed taht John Snow blew up my trap before it netted more.

Yeah I have absolutely no idea how knowing that would benefit town at this time. Did Peace ever explain that or did it just get lost in all the other BS going on?

 

 

I did explain it.  I wanted to narrow the pool down.  3 investigators, all their results, tina and apes deputy if there is one means the scum would be in the small pool of players left.  At that point is just a small numbers game.  That's the angle I've been pushing all along.

 

I got suspicious of Ape for awhile for a couple reasons.  1 - he refused to acknowledge that this was a possibility. 

 

And more importantly 2 - if this is the case the game is really imbalanced.  That would give us 4 investigators, a role blocker/redirect (No scum kill if tina is telling the truth) , a doc and a watcher (5th investigator).    With all those investigative roles out there..I thought there was a strong possibility there may not be a cop in this game.  Think about it.  A watcher, A sheriff, A deputy and 2 reporters?  I bit overkill. 

 

While thinking this through...I thought Ape may have come to the same conclusion and risked a fake cop claim.  After our tit-for tat I had second thoughts about that theory.

 

Dude.....I supported your stance before, but even this is too much for me to get behind.  We get that you are undermining the Ape.  No need to make it more obvious than it has been for days.  :-)

[Verbal32]

Btw, I know Rand replaced Crusher, Ape.  That has nothing to do with the fact that I forgot Rand was even in the game at this point.  At the time it happened, yes - I remember that.  But then complete radio silence, and I forgot.

 

Stop linking me forgetting he's in the game to me forgetting the issue with Crusher and subsequent casing on csarmageddon.

[Verbal32]

I still think people like Rand, Lenlo, etc are the ones to lynch and shoot at.  Lynch Rand, shoot Lenlo.  Or the other way around - I don't care.

[Verbal32]

@Ape:  yes, I thought JiF was hitting some tells and I wanted to lynch him.  Then the claim came out and I soured on that idea, and agreed with the subsequent idea of keeping him alive for now.  I fail to see how that automagically makes me scum.

 

You alternate from a logical standpoint, to wildly firing from the hip.  Pick one.

[John McClane]

@Ape:  yes, I thought JiF was hitting some tells and I wanted to lynch him.  Then the claim came out and I soured on that idea, and agreed with the subsequent idea of keeping him alive for now.  I fail to see how that automagically makes me scum.

 

You alternate from a logical standpoint, to wildly firing from the hip.  Pick one.

 

No.

 

Good responses though. I feel like maybe you were just explaining yourself poorly yesterday. Maybe it's because you didn't decouple your game-related explanations from your failed trolling. See when you leave out the petty, weak attempts to troll, I can usually read your logic well. When you let yourself get caught up trying to trump the Ape, an impossible feat mind you, you tend to trail off on logic and become questionable.

 

Lesson: Just play the game. Leave the trolling to the professionals.

[Verbal32]

Heh - you still think I was trolling you.  You, sir, are simply amazing.  Your lovely wife deserves a medal.

[Verbal32]

FYI, if anybody sees Quibby or Liitha online, please PM them to ask for Quibby to come in and continue modding while John Snow is MIA.

[John McClane]

 

 

 

Can't we just lynch BooBoo and move on? (If Snow gets back.) I believe he is mafia and we will get a lot of information by lynching him.

Why don't you just shoot BooBoo and we lynch Lenlo?

Will we get as much information from lynching Lenlo? I don't think so. Why are you protecting BooBoo? You know that my kill might not work.

 

Aren't you voting Verbal?

 

Where is everyone? Katiora? BooBoo? AVM? Our mod?

 

 

Does she really know?

[John McClane]

Heh - you still think I was trolling you.  You, sir, are simply amazing.  Your lovely wife deserves a medal.

 

Don't talk about my wife, wtf is wrong with you?

[Verbal32]

Does it put a damper on the tough guy persona you try to have?  You're a softie - you fool nobody.

[John McClane]

Does it put a damper on the tough guy persona you try to have?  You're a softie - you fool nobody.

 

 

No, wives, kids, mothers... keep them out of it. Have some class.

 

Also, I'm the first person to tell anyone... I'm not going for "tough guy". My persona is purposefully a juxtaposition between being a rage-filled beast and being a big softie.

 

I'm not trying to fool anyone, you should know that. I think you are overly sensitive to the "rage-filled beast" part of my act, and I can get under your skin, which is why you feel like you have to try to tell me what's up every once in a while. It just means I'm winning.

[Niniel]

Yeh, yeh. Everyone is cute and fluffy....

 

Unvote. Vote Lenlo

 

Something must happen. Ape might be right, mafia is quiet while we run around in circles? 

[Leelou]

I think that's the way it is, Tina. 

 

Unvote, vote Lenlo

[Verbal32]

 

Does it put a damper on the tough guy persona you try to have?  You're a softie - you fool nobody.

 

 

No, wives, kids, mothers... keep them out of it. Have some class.

 

Also, I'm the first person to tell anyone... I'm not going for "tough guy". My persona is purposefully a juxtaposition between being a rage-filled beast and being a big softie.

 

I'm not trying to fool anyone, you should know that. I think you are overly sensitive to the "rage-filled beast" part of my act, and I can get under your skin, which is why you feel like you have to try to tell me what's up every once in a while. It just means I'm winning.

 

Have some class?  I'm going to assume this is a joke and you're trying to get under my skin......which won't work.  You keep on thinking you can, though.