BASE MAFIA - Mafia Wins!

[ReleaseTheEvil]

RTE your argument about bad attention is bogus. I'm new and have been one of the most active players and thus far haven't been called down too seriously on anything. My play speaks for itself. What are you afraid of?

 

Well it works out very nicely when your first casing ends up with the first lynch of the game. It doesn't always play out so well though. You've been solid, which is admirable. You've posted a lot, which is interesting. And you've had no one suspicious about you up to this point which is a bit shocking. Of course if Tiinker turns up Mafia you will look like the game's righteous paragon and no one will doubt you. It would be beautiful if this was all a very clever play by the Mafia.

[Andrej]

Only time will tell. I've been waiting for someone to mention the fact that it could look like some big ploy for scum to lynch scum to earn some town cred. Good job there RTE. I'll accept your point that every game is different, and this being my first, I can't really comment on it.

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Scum or town, I commend you on your play thus far. You've done better than I have and hopefully I can move more towards a playstyle like yours, although I'm hesitant to be aggressive early unless I get a very strong read.

 

Anyways, keep up the good work. Hopefully you're a townie!

[dapianoplay3r]

RTE your argument about bad attention is bogus. I'm new and have been one of the most active players and thus far haven't been called down too seriously on anything. My play speaks for itself. What are you afraid of?

your Day1 card might be saving you a bit in this

 

 

RTE im not satisfied with that. But since it seems all im going to get... Whatever

 

as for my rule about not voting before he gets to speak

I superseded that since he was online but didnt post. Thats intentionally avoiding the thread

[michellem]

 

RTE your argument about bad attention is bogus. I'm new and have been one of the most active players and thus far haven't been called down too seriously on anything. My play speaks for itself. What are you afraid of?

 

Well it works out very nicely when your first casing ends up with the first lynch of the game. It doesn't always play out so well though. You've been solid, which is admirable. You've posted a lot, which is interesting. And you've had no one suspicious about you up to this point which is a bit shocking. Of course if Tiinker turns up Mafia you will look like the game's righteous paragon and no one will doubt you. It would be beautiful if this was all a very clever play by the Mafia.

 

I get called out for scummy play all the time, regardless of my actual alignement. And I've been lynched on D1 my fair share of times. Thing is that the only way to learn is to keep posting. I word things in weird ways, go after people who end up as town, and make bad judgements. It's better to be an active player, even if that means people will come after you with suspicion from time to time. It's part of the game. And especially if you are a roleless townie, then part of your part of the game is to die so that town can find scum.

 

One thing btw RTE, about your big rant post a while back. I don't remember the words exactly, but it was something about random lynch being better than a half-assed lynch based on weak cases. Random is always bad, no matter your alignement. Random provides no coroner report (in 99% of games at least). That means we don't know if the dead person is mafia or town, vanilla or having a role (the cop could be dead and we didn't know). We learn nothing from it; looking at a train after a lynch has happened is also an extremely useful tool. Who voted when, who was hesitant to vote. Especially when you have a couple of lynches in a row, you can see who was on the townie lynch trains, who was on the mafia trains and so on. Random? No info at all. There's a reason there's a mafia role called janitor, that "cleans up" a NK (like in Basels Forsaken game now, when Kae was nightkilled) giving no information about the dead player. The only way for town to progress, is information. So if given the choice between lynching a townie, and random lynch, the townie lynch is always preferable.

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Mish, I definitely didn't say it was better than a random lynch. I think I learned in my first game that a random lynch is a terrible thing, and our gameplay was poor enough that we did let one go random. What I said is on day 1, sometimes in reality with what little you have to go on that it may just be as "random" as a random lynch. I would never advocate for a random lynch (unless I was mafia?) because as you said we get no info. What I'm just saying is sometimes odds are that the final product can be as random a vote as a random lynch. Although, truth be told, with games as active as this on day 1 you probably still have a much more firm vote for day 1, be it well based in evidence or not.

[Andrej]

 

 

 

I can't comment on your meta Chucky nor will I argue about you not hammering. Dap and Turin have turned me away from that. Let him speak, if he decides to come back and defend himself. Frankly, I think he know he's been outted, but we'll see.

 

You haven't done much in this game. I work a weird schedule myself, I'm usually asleep all day and work a 12 hour shift from 6pm-6am so most of my activity will be on these weirds hours. I asked you directly what you thought about Snow because you left him out of your game thoughts back then while your vote was still on him. You still haven't answered. I realize there is a lot of content to look over, but by you using the excuse that no one is online when you're on to post is a bad one. Read what has taken place and state your thoughts.

i was going to answer that actually, if you go back and read my post, you'll see the people i had a slight read on and i said the rest were a null

That was also like 10 pages ago. Now that you're here, give your current take of the game.

[Andrej]

RTE I think your argument as a whole against D1 was distracting, it definitely should've been broughten up elsewhere. It also came in time with your buddy feeling the noose tighten around his neck. I won't repeat said reasons about why D1 is beneficial and the arguments of random lynches versus town majority lynches. Your stance on them is concerning, if you are admitting that you might have been wrong now.

[Andrej]

Gah... it's been a long and slow night. Excuse my poor grammar.

 

Brought up**

 

Even** if you are admitting

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Meh. Not as distracting as anything else really, and ultimately relevant to the game in one form or another.

 

I'm not retracting what I said. I appreciate the views expressed in response to my post, which shed some more light on day 1 activity that  I would not have otherwise received. I'm not saying I was wrong, but if everyone is playing from day 1 let's play. Distracting from what anyways, the guy on L-1? The one we are waiting for to lynch despite him apparently avoiding this thread? My conscious isn't exactly heavy on this one.

[ReleaseTheEvil]

There is something to be said about a lack of effort on self-preservation, town or scum. Tiinker has signed his own deeds at this point.

[michellem]

I'm usually a big advocate for letting people show up before being hammered, but he's shown that he's not interested. I seem to remember him going quiet in the Forsaken-game too when the heat was on him (but never trust my memory, lol)

[Andrej]

It also falls right in line with his comment about how he was Mafia in a past game and therefore didn't "GAF".

[Andrej]

Meh. Not as distracting as anything else really, and ultimately relevant to the game in one form or another.

 

I'm not retracting what I said. I appreciate the views expressed in response to my post, which shed some more light on day 1 activity that I would not have otherwise received. I'm not saying I was wrong, but if everyone is playing from day 1 let's play. Distracting from what anyways, the guy on L-1? The one we are waiting for to lynch despite him apparently avoiding this thread? My conscious isn't exactly heavy on this one.

 

I appreciate the fact that you gave your read on the game and also placed a vote after, but yes, I still think it was distracting. Might not have been malicious intent, or really any tactic behind it, but it did take some thought away from the game in thread. I was commenting more so on the timing of it.

[michellem]

Well it does happen; I don't think I've seen a game who doesn't have a discussing about a game mechanic or an aspect of the game itself that can't be called distracting. If it makes people talk, it's fine by me.

[Andrej]

Talk is good. As you already pointed out, any talk is good talk because it gives us an opportunity to find inconsistencies in someone's game.

[Tiinker]

No, I wasn't active anywhere. I was out last night so I wasn't around on DM. Maybe I clicked the tab and moved my mouse or something.

Give me 5 minutes to get some cereal and I'll start reading and replying.

[Lenlo]

Official Vote Count (Should be accurate)

Turin(1/8): Snow

Mish(1/8): Tiink
WoT(1/8): Rand

Tiink(7/8) AJ, Hally, Peace, TG, Mish, RTE, Dap

Note Voting:(4/14)
WoT, LZM, chuckles, Turin

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

 

Also inactive my bum. Ive been asleep. :(
 

[Tiinker]

Ok, first, sorry for the delay as I had some stuff I had to take care of that came up

tonight. Mea culpa, thank you for your patience.

 

Now, time for a tiny rant. I will be the first to admit that I often am not active

enough. I’m still learning to scum hunt, I hate walls of quotes, and I have my

opinions about day 1. But let me say this: in my opinion all this activity on

day 1 does as much harm as it does good. Why, you say? How so, you say? Well, this

sets a precedent. Here we have almost 20 pages of “content” on day 1. Some of

you will quickly say, “Hey! That’s great! The more activity the better! And we

have inactive members to boot!”.  I, on

the other hand, would dissuade this sort of activity. Why? Firstly everyone is

getting flack after a weekend phase. Now, some people, and some weekends, are

better for some than others and you can almost always expect a lull in activity

over a weekend. If you want to pick your fights and criticisms over inactivity,

Sunday night isn’t the best time to do it. PLEASE also consider time zones. I

just moved to the UK from Canada, so having been on both sides of the Atlantic

I can understand having to read all these posts in the morning and why it may

be frustrating for the NA people to have to wait to hear from someone for as

long as 6+ hours. Now, why is all that activity on Day 1 not so great? It sets

an unrealistic precedent for one thing. Day 1, with its share of fluff, old

friends reacquainting, and joke votes, will always see a high post count. It’s

normal, it’s fun. But what isn’t fun, and IMO logical, is that so much casing will

go on in day 1. Firstly, in an advanced game, many if not all of the roles have

not come into effect before night 1. This means that we have even much less

info than we can expect to get for the rest of the game on Day 1. This means no

matter how pretty your posts or how many quotes you make, what you have to go

on in Day 1 will always be very, very limited. Hell, you can’t say much about anyone’s

meta on day 1 anyways, who has a legit day 1 meta?!  What I’m saying is of course you have posts

to go on and you look for the slip ups or telling use of language, but at some

point you have to come to terms with the idea that speculation is speculation.

Yes, everyone will want to avoid a random lynch. But to think that that person

you do lynch on day 1 is any better than random is seldom the case. Also, with

so many posts, it probably discourages a lot of players, be it new or old, right

at the onset of the game. You’ve just started a new mafia game, you miss a day

of following it, and boom, you have 12 pages to catch up on. Guess what? I don’t

think spamming is very pro town. Neither do most people, hence fluff posting

getting brought up when casing people. But I think at the same time being

overzealous on day 1 is all a bit of fluff as well. What I’m getting at is work

as hard as you may, that day 1 lynch is going to be more random than any other

vote in the entire game, lest a vote go random due to no lynch by deadline.

Even “worse” are the limited roles in this game, meaning every death, be it

lynch or NK, will only leave us with so much info anyways. And in this case,

that will mean very little information indeed. What I’m trying to say is

activity is great. Most of the time it is essential. But there’s a line, and

sometimes it is as helpful as it is distracting, if not moreso of the latter.

 

Long post about not really anything. Nothing really worth noting and anything that is note-worthy I disagree with.

 

 

 

Here we go:

 

Tiinker:

Much, much has been said. Much more than I need to quote and regurgitate for

the umpteenth time here. What I can say is I don’t buy that you didn’t know

about the day 1 pass thing, as apparently Dap pointed out. You’re much better

than that. You’re too good, you shouldn’t have made a mistake like that. That

you tried tooth and nail to defend it and fought too long and too hard is

really suspicious. Town or not at this point you’re in a hole far too deep to

crawl out of and you’re likely getting lynched. I will have a part in that but

you have to wait till the end of this post like everyone else.

 

LedZepMan: Definitely needs to be more active but nothing to suggest that he’s scum

otherwise. Makes a good point that TG is trying to throw him under the bus for

something he’s just as guilty of (being inactive).

 

Peace: Town read. Not much else to say right now. Making short, relevant posts. Always appreciated. But Peace plays a smart game. Worth bearing in mind.

 

 

Dap: Dap is

an interesting one. He’s been town in every game I’ve played with him. He’s

active, but he’s smart. He pushes, a lot. What scares me most about Dap? He’s

smart enough that he wouldn’t change a thing about his playstyle as Mafia. And

it is bound to happen… Maybe this game? No idea. But we have to keep an eye on

how he votes. He likes waiting for the hammer, but that will raise more

questions than it answers. But he won’t care.

 

Rand: More of the same. Town or not, sloppy poster. He’s going to be looked at for the

next votes to come. Needs to really pick up on proof reading his posts. His

schedule has also lent to his lack of activity in recent games but we need to

make sure he’s giving us something to work with when he is around.

 

Andrej: Haven’t seen many other new players but this one is a beaut. Active, maybe too

active (see: suspiciously active), scum hunts, and prods. He isn’t coming into

this with his eyes closed. He’s ready to play. With no meta or past experiences

to go on, Andrej is likely one of the most dangerous players in this game. While

I don’t deny that he can just be “this good”, he may also be getting coached.

That being said, he is being very aggressive, one can wonder if in excess.

Tiinker however made it easy for him for barking up the wrong tree with the

wrong explanations to back it up. I’m keeping an eye on this one. It’s not easy

to be so active and not come across as scummy, but it is possible. Andrej is

good and definitely is playing pro town so far, but there remains a lot to be

seen in terms of how the votes and lynches go.

 

Wheel: Still coming to terms with a playstyle that won’t get her “FoS”ed. Town read,

if only because she’s so careful and worried about improving and how she is

doing. Easily one who can fly under the radar as Mafia though.

 

Turin: This is where my joke vote landed, but not completely without reason. Mafia vet, he

didn’t know Andrej was new, and we all had access to the sign up page. Turin

has been around the block enough to know better, and to know Andrej was new,

and more importantly expect to have new players in a BASE MAFIA game.

 

TG – Off his meta. Usually a very active and vigorous scum hunter, but we just came off a

weekend. Will be interesting to see where his play goes from here. His going

after Led struck me as odd. For one thing I was just as inactive and was

spared, and for another TG himself was very inactive. This rubs me the wrong

way: TG is better than this. Suspicious…

 

Hallia: Playing the perpetual noob card, but showing she knows the ropes and can point

her finger too. Same problem as WoT, can get under the radar and glide by. We

may give her too much room and if she’s Mafia she’ll use it. We need to keep

her posting and see what’s going on.

 

Lolguy aka Chuckles (Andrej, nicknames are a pain in the ass but you’ll pick them up): Not

much to go on. Can be town or scum. Not convinced on either one. Another one

who can glide by on lurking around without contributing too much.

 

Mish: Town vibe due to scum hunting. But scum hunting does not equal town. So far so good

though. Let’s see where she goes.

 

Lenlo: Oddly quiet. Forgot he was quiet. VERY oddly quiet. This is troubling. We

should prod here and see what is going on. I also have a permanent FoS on him

more or less <3

 

John Snow: People are piling on him but I need to figure him out for myself. Not enough to

go by on day 1 but I don’t quite have a town read yet either. Wait and see sort

of deal.

 

Darthe: Insane in the membrane.

 

Oh Look! A whole casing post without quotes! Wow! And it still reflects my opinion and

gives some relevant examples and I didn’t have to quote a quote of another

quote with someone else’s comments in bold in a quote with someone else’s

comments in 3 colors. Wasn’t this easy to read? Cray! (Sorry, it’s like 2:40 am

here and I’m bitter as hell when someone expects me to read a HUGE post which

is 90% wall of quotes. If I read the damn posts you can refer to at least a

couple of them without quoting the WHOLE post for the 2 relevant lines you’d

like to discuss :D )

 

Boo, found the paste from Word button but still doesn't help the awkward formatting. Sorry. Rather make sure I don't lose it than make it look pretty.

 

THIS GUY DIDN'T EVEN READ THE THREAD.

 

Firstly your post about me revolves around you knowing my meta. I can only remember ONE game we played together. "Trying tooth and nail to defend it". A very obvious over exaggeration. I went on to admit that I hadn't known it to be considered an actual policy around here and defended only my argument to why I didn't actually think it was a good idea, not to mention there hasn't been an actual post where someone has said that I was wrong. The only posts in favour of it were about how it gets the new people to get their heads in the game to which I replied that people who were worried about that had mentors. Your read on me is just random fluff you've come up with to try and cover up for not taking part..

 

Your read on Peace is useless. Your read on Dap is basically stating Daps actions without bothering to analyze them. Dude you've literally just gone ahead and stated the obvious for every single player. No analysis done at all. Another cover up post.

 

Seriously... what more does he really have to say that we need to hear? Go back and look at the damn thread. A lot of you are acting like this is a Lylo situation, it's D1! Part of the reason why we have 18 pages to filter through is because people are taking so long to committ. If we're wrong, then we're wrong and I will take full blame that will undoubtably be cast in my direction. Hell, lynch me for it if he flips town. I've already said that I have nothing to lose. Call my play aggressive, scummy, however you want to word it but I am trying to make this game progress. I stated already the only truth we will find are in the coroner reports.

 

Overly aggressive but I'm going to let it slide because I think it's down to a newbie trying to demonstrate his game knowledge over scummy play. No one's acting like it's LyLo. And you're noble sacrifice in taking the blame is a pretty ridiculous one. You guys have sewn up so much WIFOM with my lynch and you know full well that you're not going to end up being lynched once I show up as town. 

 

Ok finally caught up, and finished my history outline.  I agree with somethings RTE, but I generally find Day 1 extremely useful.  Although there are a lot of active lynches on day 1 (lynches of the most active people, which is why a lot of times we see post decreases) the information we get from that is great, and it usually carries onto finding scum the following days.  Day 1 itself isn't that great, but it starts the greatness if that makes any sense.

 

I always see Turin as scummy, so I am going to hold off on him for now.  I think he always sees me as scummy too.  Not sure, but I think he does.

 

And now we wait....

 

 

Post something game related.

 

 

[Tiinker]

Just checking in quickly before I crash for the night;

 

@RTE - I agree that when people post too much spam it adds to the game unnecessarily. However, I disagree with almost everything else you said about D1. Yes, incessant complaining about activity is meh, but with paying attention it is entirely possible to have a good lynch on D1 and plenty of posting is good. Also, if you go play on a site like mafiascum everyone there does what you suggest, they post almost exclusively game content and there is no friendly chatter which, IMO, takes something away from the game. So, I say we need balance and if someone posts tons of spam that needs to stop, but more posting is good nomatter which day.

 

@Dap - You're trying to throw suspicion on me because I used a word bigger than 2 syllables? Really? That pings. However, the fact that you haven't hammer Tiink already gives me a town read.

 

@LZM - Come play then.

 

Finally, nobody hammer Tiink. He needs to have a chance to defend himself before someone hammers him. Scum play is the speed lynch, let's not do it folks.

 

I don't think you know what speed lynch means. There was enough info before to have the lynch be worthwhile. Now on the other hand there's been  There's been a lot of this "Don't lynch him let him speak" and it's pretty useless. You read my posts so you knew what I had to say. Not saying that it's not helpful to wait for the end of the deadline but you fail to give your own opinion on the situation which just makes you look like you're hoping to look good when I get lynched and show up as town. I already said what I had to say. If you've got any particular reason for wanting me to stick around because you think I'm right or think I'm town or whatever then give a damn reason. FOS.

[Tiinker]

I'm usually a big advocate for letting people show up before being hammered, but he's shown that he's not interested. I seem to remember him going quiet in the Forsaken-game too when the heat was on him (but never trust my memory, lol)

 

 

It also falls right in line with his comment about how he was Mafia in a past game and therefore didn't "GAF".

 

No, it doesn't. I stopped posting as much in the Forsaken game because I was spending my time out looking for a house to live in next year. And the giving a F comment was purely about the chatter about D1 free pass in the other game in whch I was mafia and figured it was working to out advantage. Not that I didn't GAF about the game and my teammates. How does that s*** fall in line with anything??

 

 

 

 

 

Unvote Vote RTE 

 

 

 

[Tiinker]

And I still think Mish is bad news. I've done what I can and my head is still spinning massively so I hope everything makes sense up there and I didn't confuse names. I'm going to go throw up.

[lolguy26]

let me get this straight your vote on RTE is cuz he did nothing useful?

[Tiinker]

let me get this straight your vote on RTE is cuz he did nothing useful?

 

That's very obviously not the only reason.

[lolguy26]

 

let me get this straight your vote on RTE is cuz he did nothing useful?

 

That's very obviously not the only reason.

 

then explain?