BASE MAFIA - Mafia Wins!

[peacesells]

I completely disagree with just about everything you just posted.

[dapianoplay3r]

Cliche "I've been following the thread and will post my thoughts in a couple of hours" post.

 

I'd appreciate a cliche actual game related post

 

 

Ok, first, sorry for the delay as I had some stuff I had to take care of that came up

tonight. Mea culpa, thank you for your patience.

 

Now, time for a tiny rant. I will be the first to admit that I often am not active

enough. I’m still learning to scum hunt, I hate walls of quotes, and I have my

opinions about day 1. But let me say this: in my opinion all this activity on

day 1 does as much harm as it does good. Why, you say? How so, you say? Well, this

sets a precedent. Here we have almost 20 pages of “content” on day 1. Some of

you will quickly say, “Hey! That’s great! The more activity the better! And we

have inactive members to boot!”.  I, on

the other hand, would dissuade this sort of activity. Why? Firstly everyone is

getting flack after a weekend phase. Now, some people, and some weekends, are

better for some than others and you can almost always expect a lull in activity

over a weekend. If you want to pick your fights and criticisms over inactivity,

Sunday night isn’t the best time to do it. PLEASE also consider time zones. I

just moved to the UK from Canada, so having been on both sides of the Atlantic

I can understand having to read all these posts in the morning and why it may

be frustrating for the NA people to have to wait to hear from someone for as

long as 6+ hours. Now, why is all that activity on Day 1 not so great? It sets

an unrealistic precedent for one thing. Day 1, with its share of fluff, old

friends reacquainting, and joke votes, will always see a high post count. It’s

normal, it’s fun. But what isn’t fun, and IMO logical, is that so much casing will

go on in day 1. Firstly, in an advanced game, many if not all of the roles have

not come into effect before night 1. This means that we have even much less

info than we can expect to get for the rest of the game on Day 1. This means no

matter how pretty your posts or how many quotes you make, what you have to go

on in Day 1 will always be very, very limited. Hell, you can’t say much about anyone’s

meta on day 1 anyways, who has a legit day 1 meta?!  What I’m saying is of course you have posts

to go on and you look for the slip ups or telling use of language, but at some

point you have to come to terms with the idea that speculation is speculation.

Yes, everyone will want to avoid a random lynch. But to think that that person

you do lynch on day 1 is any better than random is seldom the case. Also, with

so many posts, it probably discourages a lot of players, be it new or old, right

at the onset of the game. You’ve just started a new mafia game, you miss a day

of following it, and boom, you have 12 pages to catch up on. Guess what? I don’t

think spamming is very pro town. Neither do most people, hence fluff posting

getting brought up when casing people. But I think at the same time being

overzealous on day 1 is all a bit of fluff as well. What I’m getting at is work

as hard as you may, that day 1 lynch is going to be more random than any other

vote in the entire game, lest a vote go random due to no lynch by deadline.

Even “worse” are the limited roles in this game, meaning every death, be it

lynch or NK, will only leave us with so much info anyways. And in this case,

that will mean very little information indeed. What I’m trying to say is

activity is great. Most of the time it is essential. But there’s a line, and

sometimes it is as helpful as it is distracting, if not moreso of the latter.

I see some of your points but this post makes me mad. If you are like rand and inactive (he legit doesn't have time for DM) I don't mind. He can have a few days and ill be ok with it but if he isn't able to do a phase he should ask to get replaced. But then there are the lurking inactives. People that read the thread but don't post anythoughts. I understand you are learning but you can still say that you're thinking as you read through.

So while your post was interesting its a bit hypocritical. I understand if you are busy but you have 8 posts this game. None are what I would call really game related. I also dislike day 1 but it still has use. People have moved on from just useless spam, and the game is going places.

I'm probably one that has made the most spam, but people are at least able to get a read on me and be able to play the game.

I prefer to play in a spammy game than an inactive one. At least if people are spamming they are on the thread and have no excuse to not post their thoughts

[dapianoplay3r]

Peace he has some points. Time zones suck, I live on the other side of the world to everyone. If I want to be around when the games are most active it's after my midnight

People also are busy in life. But they also have to time to post something relevant.

 

So RTE while you say you are inactive you aren't contributing while still posting, that's not being inactive. You were here when the Tiink and snow and rand thing was happening but so far I don't think you've commented

 

Also where is your vote currently?

[ReleaseTheEvil]

 

Here we go:

Tiinker:
Much, much has been said. Much more than I need to quote and regurgitate for
the umpteenth time here. What I can say is I don’t buy that you didn’t know
about the day 1 pass thing, as apparently Dap pointed out. You’re much better
than that. You’re too good, you shouldn’t have made a mistake like that. That
you tried tooth and nail to defend it and fought too long and too hard is
really suspicious. Town or not at this point you’re in a hole far too deep to
crawl out of and you’re likely getting lynched. I will have a part in that but
you have to wait till the end of this post like everyone else.

LedZepMan: Definitely needs to be more active but nothing to suggest that he’s scum
otherwise. Makes a good point that TG is trying to throw him under the bus for
something he’s just as guilty of (being inactive).

Peace: Town read. Not much else to say right now. Making short, relevant posts. Always appreciated. But Peace plays a smart game. Worth bearing in mind.

 

Dap: Dap is
an interesting one. He’s been town in every game I’ve played with him. He’s
active, but he’s smart. He pushes, a lot. What scares me most about Dap? He’s
smart enough that he wouldn’t change a thing about his playstyle as Mafia. And
it is bound to happen… Maybe this game? No idea. But we have to keep an eye on
how he votes. He likes waiting for the hammer, but that will raise more
questions than it answers. But he won’t care.

Rand: More of the same. Town or not, sloppy poster. He’s going to be looked at for the
next votes to come. Needs to really pick up on proof reading his posts. His
schedule has also lent to his lack of activity in recent games but we need to
make sure he’s giving us something to work with when he is around.

Andrej: Haven’t seen many other new players but this one is a beaut. Active, maybe too
active (see: suspiciously active), scum hunts, and prods. He isn’t coming into
this with his eyes closed. He’s ready to play. With no meta or past experiences
to go on, Andrej is likely one of the most dangerous players in this game. While
I don’t deny that he can just be “this good”, he may also be getting coached.
That being said, he is being very aggressive, one can wonder if in excess.
Tiinker however made it easy for him for barking up the wrong tree with the
wrong explanations to back it up. I’m keeping an eye on this one. It’s not easy
to be so active and not come across as scummy, but it is possible. Andrej is
good and definitely is playing pro town so far, but there remains a lot to be
seen in terms of how the votes and lynches go.

Wheel: Still coming to terms with a playstyle that won’t get her “FoS”ed. Town read,
if only because she’s so careful and worried about improving and how she is
doing. Easily one who can fly under the radar as Mafia though.

Turin: This is where my joke vote landed, but not completely without reason. Mafia vet, he
didn’t know Andrej was new, and we all had access to the sign up page. Turin
has been around the block enough to know better, and to know Andrej was new,
and more importantly expect to have new players in a BASE MAFIA game.

TG – Off his meta. Usually a very active and vigorous scum hunter, but we just came off a
weekend. Will be interesting to see where his play goes from here. His going
after Led struck me as odd. For one thing I was just as inactive and was
spared, and for another TG himself was very inactive. This rubs me the wrong
way: TG is better than this. Suspicious…

Hallia: Playing the perpetual noob card, but showing she knows the ropes and can point
her finger too. Same problem as WoT, can get under the radar and glide by. We
may give her too much room and if she’s Mafia she’ll use it. We need to keep
her posting and see what’s going on.

Lolguy aka Chuckles (Andrej, nicknames are a pain in the ass but you’ll pick them up): Not
much to go on. Can be town or scum. Not convinced on either one. Another one
who can glide by on lurking around without contributing too much.

Mish: Town vibe due to scum hunting. But scum hunting does not equal town. So far so good
though. Let’s see where she goes.

Lenlo: Oddly quiet. Forgot he was quiet. VERY oddly quiet. This is troubling. We
should prod here and see what is going on. I also have a permanent FoS on him
more or less <3

John Snow: People are piling on him but I need to figure him out for myself. Not enough to
go by on day 1 but I don’t quite have a town read yet either. Wait and see sort
of deal.

Darthe: Insane in the membrane.

Oh Look! A whole casing post without quotes! Wow! And it still reflects my opinion and
gives some relevant examples and I didn’t have to quote a quote of another
quote with someone else’s comments in bold in a quote with someone else’s
comments in 3 colors. Wasn’t this easy to read? Cray! (Sorry, it’s like 2:40 am
here and I’m bitter as hell when someone expects me to read a HUGE post which
is 90% wall of quotes. If I read the damn posts you can refer to at least a
couple of them without quoting the WHOLE post for the 2 relevant lines you’d
like to discuss :D )

Boo, found the paste from Word button but still doesn't help the awkward formatting. Sorry. Rather make sure I don't lose it than make it look pretty.

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Oh, forgot to write the closing paragraph. Turin, while on my radar, is definitely not the best vote at this point of the game. His play hasn't warranted it, and there is no strong read there.

 

Tiinker, as I wrote in your paragraph, you put yourself where you are. And now we find ourselves here. Unvote. Vote Tiinker.

[ReleaseTheEvil]

If you want to change the way people play Mafia on DM, you have to change the DM Mafia meta.

 

Let's face it people: like it or not, quiet people survive. You want this to change? Be super, super aggressive against quiet people.

 

The problem is quiet people won't always turn up scum, but if you don't chase people down to post then there is often less of a risk by them not contributing.

 

I'll be the first one to admit it: I truly believe at times in a game it is safer not to post. A practical example is a night phase. Another example is day 1 when people are looking for anything that they can throw against a wall and see if it sticks.

 

You let the quiet people slide by and they will learn that it can earn them an extra day or two. And they will. Simple as that, whether they are town or mafia. Mafia have more at risk by slipping up in a post, but sometimes a vanilla just wants to get by as well.

[dapianoplay3r]

First off I like that post. I have no issues with you not using quotes. Personally I like to show my evidence as I talk about it but what you did is fine with me. Just be prepared to be able to produce a quote to show your reasoning

 

Do you want to unvote Turin or are you planning on leaving that vote there all day?

 

Lastly I'm ready to vote now. I dislike not letting someone speak before they get lynched, Tiink had till I go to bed tonight to appear. (About 5 hours)

 

 

RTE yes I like waiting. I dislike having to unvote and revote and stuff like that

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Now I'm staying up super late just to see the replies to this. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee...

[dapianoplay3r]

Missed your last two posts so yea

 

I think you should start a thread for this and take it off the game thread. I will say though that lynching inactives only helps the mafia. As soon as you put pressure on mafia inactives their team makes sure they start posting and get it together, town inactives just end up lynched and brings everyone much closer to end game. As much as saying this might cause issue I think it's more of the MODs job to kick the players into being active, the players themselves can't afford too.

[dapianoplay3r]

I know the feeling. Time zones suck but they can be dealt with by not expecting instant replies

[ReleaseTheEvil]

I agree with that Dap. I think people's activity is telling, as in when they choose to be active. That can sometimes distinguish scum from town.

 

I don't really know whether I have much more to say on it, thus it not really warranting another thread. Many of DM's most active Mafia players are in here anyways. I agree it is up to the Mod ultimately.

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Oh I know. I just figured after finally doing a proper casing and knowing some people were one, was guessing I'd get a reply or two. I am genuinely interested in the game you know :P

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Anyways, Night folks. See you on the flipside.

[Andrej]

Good posts, RTE. I see the points you're trying to make about D1 being too busy, and although I will give you some there are others I don't agree with. Understandably coming back to a game after a period of time and having multiple pages of posts to read through can be discouraging. Honestly, some of the games that I was following I stopped doing so because I didn't want to play catch up. Then again, as a player, you signed up for this game. It's YOUR job to keep up with it. It's frankly unfair to everyone else when people don't participate, regardless of it being a tactic or not. I realize that people lead busy lives, I certainly do, and that things come up but if you sign up for a game knowing you won't be able to give it the proper attention then you're F'ed up IMO.

[Tyler Glembo]

Just checking in quickly before I crash for the night;

 

@RTE - I agree that when people post too much spam it adds to the game unnecessarily. However, I disagree with almost everything else you said about D1. Yes, incessant complaining about activity is meh, but with paying attention it is entirely possible to have a good lynch on D1 and plenty of posting is good. Also, if you go play on a site like mafiascum everyone there does what you suggest, they post almost exclusively game content and there is no friendly chatter which, IMO, takes something away from the game. So, I say we need balance and if someone posts tons of spam that needs to stop, but more posting is good nomatter which day.

 

@Dap - You're trying to throw suspicion on me because I used a word bigger than 2 syllables? Really? That pings. However, the fact that you haven't hammer Tiink already gives me a town read.

 

@LZM - Come play then.

 

Finally, nobody hammer Tiink. He needs to have a chance to defend himself before someone hammers him. Scum play is the speed lynch, let's not do it folks.

[dapianoplay3r]

TG dont worry. It wasnt even something i bothered to put a FOS with. Its just funny how your language got fancierwhen defending

 

but i wont hammer. I will very likely end up doing so but i like to let people speak

[Turin Turambar]

RTE, First of all I disagree with your points about D1. It is a very useful day to look for mafia mistakes. There are some things that people jump on that are really much ado about nothing. But that tells us something about those people too as well as giving infromation about how the pressured person may react. As for activity, I much prefer an active game. Now I can do without piles of spam, especially pictures that make pages not want to load or take forever. I would rather have an active game than a game where you have no post on too many people which makes for a bunch of guessing. My point of view is that you signed up to play, so PLAY already. I can be inactive at times too when work gets crazy, but I try to make up for a sometime lack of posts with real content.

 

I was the one that posted all the complete posts from the lower activity people. It was to show how little they had said. I can see that it was hard to go thru. but it was very worthwhile for me to see and I thought it would also be good for everyone else.

 

As for your casing, No quotes is fine with me. Post thoughts if there is a question about veracity then a quote can be brought up. As to the actual thoughts:

 

Turin: re Andrej and the sign up thread. Honestly I don't go back and read the sign ups for info. It is just easier to ask the question on thread and have the person in question answer. As far as having new players in a basic game, how many of us are "new"? I don't take anything at face value. 

 

Mish: scumhunting? when please. She has been missing for much of the game, although I buy her reason. For you to say she is town for scumhunting makes me doubt you.

 

Lenlo: Was that a joke? you know he is a co-mod right?

[peacesells]

speed lynch?  slowest speed lynch in the history of lynches.  Crown this guy already.

[dapianoplay3r]

Blah my anger for that d1 rant blinded me. Turin speaks the tuth

len isnt a player and mish isnt active

but if tiink flips mafia im almost certain RTE is mafia too

i need to go back and check something first but im pretty dam sure they have a qt together

 

my reason will sound stupid but i cant shake it

[Andrej]

Seriously... what more does he really have to say that we need to hear? Go back and look at the damn thread. A lot of you are acting like this is a Lylo situation, it's D1! Part of the reason why we have 18 pages to filter through is because people are taking so long to committ. If we're wrong, then we're wrong and I will take full blame that will undoubtably be cast in my direction. Hell, lynch me for it if he flips town. I've already said that I have nothing to lose. Call my play aggressive, scummy, however you want to word it but I am trying to make this game progress. I stated already the only truth we will find are in the coroner reports.

[Turin Turambar]

I like how you were one of the other inactives and tried rolling me under the bus. Very hypocritical

Are you actually going to say something LZM? you were here, give some thoughts. Every time I have seen you this silent you have ended up Mafia.  

 

Play already

[dapianoplay3r]

AJ i know you are new. Its less important this game but in other games they need tge chance to claim

[Andrej]

I'm just getting frustrated man.

[dapianoplay3r]

I know. But you wont change my mind

[Turin Turambar]

As far as what he has to say, it could be anything. He could claim cop or vig. He could give info that can be used to catch other mafia. I am okay with letting him twist for the present. There is not a deadline at this time. The more Day the town has the better IMO.