Isam/Luc

[Smoosh]

Hi. I'm new, and the one thing i noticed about all of the posts about the plot for AMOL here is that no one mentions the Luc/Isam combine....or whatever they are. In the fourth book, there was all that jazz about Isam leading the Trollocs and Lord Luc appearing out of no where. Isam was from Malkier, he and his mother were lost when the Trollocs invaded. Luc was from Andor. He went to the Blight because his destiny lay there or something. In the 2nd book, the dark prophecy says:

 

Luc came to the Mountains of Dhoom,

Isam waited in the high passes,

....

One did live, and one did die, but both are.

 

In the 4th book, the wolves all called Isam "Slayer" and Luc smelled like Slayer. Near the end of the Two Rivers campagin, Perrin shoots Slayer/Isam in the wolfdream, and then Luc runs past him in the kitchen. And then he drops off the face of the earth. There have been enough hints throughout the early storyline for me to believe that Luc/Isam will play at least some role in Tarmon Gai'don, possibly the leader of the Darkhounds vs. Perrin's wolves?

 

 

If I'm wrong, or this has been covered before or something, feel free to delete it.

[Artemis]

Possibly...

What we do know is that Isam/Luc (ah feck it lets just call him Slayer) HAS to play a bigger role in the books because up to now all he has been is an assasin for the DO (and not a very succesfull one at that) BUT , if the Forsaken/DO already have Shaidar Haran + Gholam what do they need another assasin for???

The theory goes that Slayer (apart from something big in Tarmon Gaidon) is there to set an example (and previous reference) of two minds coming in to one body for whenever Rand and Moridin switch bodies (or whatever they will do).

[Thor]

we know that slayer has been haunting padan fain's dreams. my theory is that they will both survive the last battle and will keep fighting each other until they both die.

[Luckers]

Slayer hasn't been haunting padan fain's dreams. He doesn't have that ability since he enters T'A'R in the flesh. He has been hunting padan fain though, and i believe there will be a confrontation between the two in Memory of Light.

[Ilyena]

Thank you for finally explaining the Isam/Luc think to me, I kept getting confused in the book, and never took the time to piece it together.

[Smoosh]

wow...that made sense to people other than me? Sweet!

 

 

 

yeah, Slayer was always one of the coolest people in the series, IMHO. no one quite knew what the hell he was doing or where he came from.

[Slayer]

Reading the Shadow Rising the first time, I was totally confused when the Trollocs started chanting "ISAM! ISAM!" I was also confused as to his link with Slayer/Luc, but reading further into this series (especially WH) I began to understand it.

 

Is Slayer tied to ravens like Perrin is to wolves? It appears so.

[Smoosh]

I dont think its ravens, i think its Darkhounds. Its just a hunch, but i think the wolves call Darkhounds Shadowbrothers or something, as if Darkhounds are the Shadow's equivelant of wolves, to fight them at the Last Battle. Also, the wolves know Slayer, and i got the impression that wolves were, if not afraid of Slayer, they gave him plenty of room in the wolfdream.

 

 

That was just a jumble of my thoughts, but basically, I think the Luc/Isam Combine is to darkhounds what Perrin is to wolves. This may have given him a closer bond with the more animal side of the DO's forces, hence the ravens.

 

 

Also.....what about this? What if Luc or Isam was one of the wolfkin before turning (or being turned) over to the Shadow? That would make some sort of sense. The DO didnt have the issue of the wolves during the War of Power, so he didnt have anything specifically to handle it. He used the darkhounds for other purposes. Now, with more and more wolfkin popping up, one of them a very strong Ta'vern, he needed somehting to combat this. Which is where the Luc/Isam Combine comes into play.

 

 

 

...just me talking out of my a$$. I dunno.

[Guest cwestervelt]

I dont think its ravens' date=' i think its Darkhounds. Its just a hunch, but i think the wolves call Darkhounds Shadowbrothers or something, as if Darkhounds are the Shadow's equivelant of wolves, to fight them at the Last Battle. Also, the wolves know Slayer, and i got the impression that wolves were, if not afraid of Slayer, they gave him plenty of room in the wolfdream.

 

 

That was just a jumble of my thoughts, but basically, I think the Luc/Isam Combine is to darkhounds what Perrin is to wolves. This may have given him a closer bond with the more animal side of the DO's forces, hence the ravens.

 

 

Also.....what about this? What if Luc or Isam was one of the wolfkin before turning (or being turned) over to the Shadow? That would make some sort of sense. The DO didnt have the issue of the wolves during the War of Power, so he didnt have anything specifically to handle it. He used the darkhounds for other purposes. Now, with more and more wolfkin popping up, one of them a very strong Ta'vern, he needed somehting to combat this. Which is where the Luc/Isam Combine comes into play.

 

 

 

...just me talking out of my a$$. I dunno.[/quote']

 

The wolves avoid Slayer in the Dream for one simple reason. He likes to kill wolves there, and getting killed there is permanent for the wolf. When a wolf dies in the real world, it lives on in the Dream but when it dies in the Dream, it is final.

[Luckers]

Mmm, there is no definate evidence of a connection between Slayer and the Darkhounds, which seem pretty much to be their own bosses.

[Ilyena]

true, but Luc is not seen with any shadow spawn in the waking world either, so can we say that though he can obviously control trollocs and the like, that he can control ravens and darkhounds as well?

[Smoosh]

Well, there's never gonna be any proof that he controls ravens and such, any more than we have proof that the Forsaken can use them. All RJ says is that they are the eyes of the Shadow, and the Eyeless recieve their reports. I think that if you give enough of your soul to the DO, and rise high enough in his council, you can command ravens and such. Except for my bare-bones theory, it seems the only people to control darkhounds are the Forsaken and the DO. It would make sense that the DO doesnt trust the Forsaken completely with a weapon as powerful as the Darkhounds that attacked Rand at Ruheiden, ones that can only be killed with balefire. That would make it too easy to kill eachother (as if it wasnt easy enough already) and whoever they wanted. It would make sense that the DO would have someone else to ensure their proper usage. The Luc/Isam Combine seems to be the logical choice, becuase he is new to the Shadow, but is already well-known to the wolves. IMHO, there is some connection between the wolves and the Darkhounds, and personally, i think that Slayer is just the Shadow's response to Perrin.

[Guest cwestervelt]

true' date=' but Luc is not seen with any shadow spawn in the waking world either, so can we say that though he can obviously control trollocs and the like, that he can control ravens and darkhounds as well?[/quote']

 

I would say that he has some control over ravens though. During one of Perrin's initial encounters with Slayer in Tel'aran'rhiod, there are flights of ravens around the busshes where Slayer was hiding. The fact that they were pointed out always made me think they were working under Slayer's control.

 

I don't think there is anything to connect Slayer to Darkhounds though.

[Slayer]

But somebody has been controlling the Darkhounds. I think Slayer can at least use the DO's eyes (rats, ravens,etc.) to see, if nothing else.

[Smoosh]

I don't think there is anything to connect Slayer to Darkhounds though.

 

 

No, there isnt, but I, at least, have the hunch that he is somehow linked to them, just becuase of his suspicious circumstances of introduction. If the Shadow has no knowledge of this wolfkin business, why not send it's equivelant to check it out, posing as someone else?

 

 

You are right, there is no hard evidence, but simple speculation.

[Angel of Death]

He's been around.

 

He was in book 5, when he killed Asmodean :D

[Smoosh]

When some people think he killed asmodean. There was also a theory that it was Shaidar Haran (or whatever his name is). But even then, people didnt know him. Rand or Matt still havnt met him or heard about him. Just Perrin.

[Jellybelly]

Well, every character does not have to know every character for that character to have been introduced (I assume you refer to Slayer).

[Smoosh]

I'm not saying Slayer hasnt been introduced, but the only person he has been introduced to is Perrin. The onbly person he has confronted is Perrin. Why?

[Jellybelly]

Well, he definitely tried to kill Rand.

[Ilyena]

Yah, during one of the later books you here him talking about trying to kill his nephew with that girl, which many people assumed was Lan, but RJ said was Rand...

[Jellybelly]

I do not know why people would assume that, since Isam is Lan's cousin, and would have no reason to refer to him as his "nephew".

[Smoosh]

Most people seem to forget about the Luc half of the combine, or the relationship btwn Luc and Rand was never clear.

 

 

He tried to kill rand, yes. what i am saying is that Rand was never introduced to him in the story line. Slayer is just a part of the Shadow doing the Shadow's work, concerning Rand. When RJ introduced Slayer to Perrin, it was early enough in the series that killing Rand wasn't taking up all of the DO's thoughts. Or thats how isee it.

[Bob T Dwarf]

How the DO wants to handle Rand seems to have been various things at various times.

 

Initially he just wanted to find the Dragon Reborn. Thus Fain was altered to become his bloodhound.

 

Then he wanted to intimidate Rand into joining his merry band of cutthroats. Thus all of Baalzy's bluster.

 

Then, once Baalzy had been beaten the first time the focus changed to aquiring the Horn of Valere. Killing Perrin, Mat and Rand became secondary.

 

Then, once the Horn had been sounded, and Rand had defeated Baalzy the second time at Falme, the focus became killing Rand.

 

Then after Baalzy was defeated the third and final time in Tear, it seems that everybody was supposed to leave Rand strictly alone.

 

Then, once the dead started coming back to life, the focus seemed to be, "Kill him if you must, but get everything he has around him." Various Forsaken took that as meaning there was open season on Rand again.

 

Since the Cleansing, it seems to be back to kill them all.

 

I don't think anybody, reader or character in the books, really knows what the DO intends where Rand is concerned, even now.

[Guest cwestervelt]

I don't know that anybody, character or reader, ever knew the DO's intentions. Much of the events in the first 3 books could have been Ishamael working on his own without guidance.