Egwene's Arc (Full Spoilers)

[XXX]

Correct but all of them understood where they stood with regard to their partners. Egwene always thought herself the equal of Rand when she was not. Gawyn thought himself Egwene's equal for a while and guess what happened Egwene nearly got killed.

[avernite]

Correct but all of them understood where they stood with regard to their partners. Egwene always thought herself the equal of Rand when she was not. Gawyn thought himself Egwene's equal for a while and guess what happened Egwene nearly got killed.

Maybe I'm just odd that way - but I think it would absolutely be good for people in relationships to consider themselves equals. Egwene felt she could not let Gawyn be her equal, because of his place in life and tendency to express the sense of equality in public (unlike, say, Thom, Min or Lan, who would probably know exactly when to shut up and continue the discussion in private).

But if Rand were her partner? Noone would be truly shocked if they rebuffed eachother in public, and neither would be undermined by it by book 7-8 or so.

 

Only if you take away from the story that Egwene wanted a stooge would you think she would want Rand as lesser partner... and even then, I think trying such tricks on Rand would be precisely what would be needed to fix that desire.

[XXX]

 

Correct but all of them understood where they stood with regard to their partners. Egwene always thought herself the equal of Rand when she was not. Gawyn thought himself Egwene's equal for a while and guess what happened Egwene nearly got killed.

Maybe I'm just odd that way - but I think it would absolutely be good for people in relationships to consider themselves equals. Egwene felt she could not let Gawyn be her equal, because of his place in life and tendency to express the sense of equality in public (unlike, say, Thom, Min or Lan, who would probably know exactly when to shut up and continue the discussion in private).

But if Rand were her partner? Noone would be truly shocked if they rebuffed eachother in public, and neither would be undermined by it by book 7-8 or so.

 

Only if you take away from the story that Egwene wanted a stooge would you think she would want Rand as lesser partner... and even then, I think trying such tricks on Rand would be precisely what would be needed to fix that desire.

 

 

In an ideal world yes you are correct. But in a feudal world you can hardly expect the ruler to be ticked off in public by his/her spouse can you?

[fionwe1987]

 

 

Correct but all of them understood where they stood with regard to their partners. Egwene always thought herself the equal of Rand when she was not. Gawyn thought himself Egwene's equal for a while and guess what happened Egwene nearly got killed.

Maybe I'm just odd that way - but I think it would absolutely be good for people in relationships to consider themselves equals. Egwene felt she could not let Gawyn be her equal, because of his place in life and tendency to express the sense of equality in public (unlike, say, Thom, Min or Lan, who would probably know exactly when to shut up and continue the discussion in private).

But if Rand were her partner? Noone would be truly shocked if they rebuffed eachother in public, and neither would be undermined by it by book 7-8 or so.

 

Only if you take away from the story that Egwene wanted a stooge would you think she would want Rand as lesser partner... and even then, I think trying such tricks on Rand would be precisely what would be needed to fix that desire.

 

 

In an ideal world yes you are correct. But in a feudal world you can hardly expect the ruler to be ticked off in public by his/her spouse can you?

 

WoT is not a feudal world. Which is why Elayne did tick off Rand very publicly by removing his banners from her city. She never behaved like his subordinate, nor did Aviendha (who also publicly challenged him by siding with Egwene in Merillor...). 

 

In fact, while Egwene challenges Rand all the time, she has never once even thought that she was his superior. It was Elayne who wished Rand would kneel to her. Many other Aes Sedai may have hoped for it too. Egwene herself never remotely wished for any such thing. 

 

The same is true with regards to Rand, and what he thought of Egwene as well. In the end, she was his equal simply because that was the dynamic in their relationship. In the whole wide world, the one person Rand felt he needed to convince to get the rest of the world to follow his plan was Egwene. And if there was one person who could frustrate Rand's plan, it was Egwene. And she did so. It needed Moiraine coming back from the dead to mediate between them,

 

The entire symbolic structure of WoT screams they're equals. Egwene's represented by the Flame (that's what Min's visions revealed right away), Rand by the Fang. And the central symbol of balance in WoT is the Flame and Fang fused, in balance... equal.

 

As Egwene's final realization showed, there is always a balance in the Pattern. Egwene was Rand's female counterpart. Neither of them saw it that way, of course, but that is how the Pattern intended it. The world could not be saved by either of their individual plans. Only the plan that compromised between their views was able to save the world. Hence, the world would have been destroyed (and Rand would have failed), but for Moiraine.

[Rhienne]

 

 

 

Correct but all of them understood where they stood with regard to their partners. Egwene always thought herself the equal of Rand when she was not. Gawyn thought himself Egwene's equal for a while and guess what happened Egwene nearly got killed.

Maybe I'm just odd that way - but I think it would absolutely be good for people in relationships to consider themselves equals. Egwene felt she could not let Gawyn be her equal, because of his place in life and tendency to express the sense of equality in public (unlike, say, Thom, Min or Lan, who would probably know exactly when to shut up and continue the discussion in private).

But if Rand were her partner? Noone would be truly shocked if they rebuffed eachother in public, and neither would be undermined by it by book 7-8 or so.

 

Only if you take away from the story that Egwene wanted a stooge would you think she would want Rand as lesser partner... and even then, I think trying such tricks on Rand would be precisely what would be needed to fix that desire.

 

 

In an ideal world yes you are correct. But in a feudal world you can hardly expect the ruler to be ticked off in public by his/her spouse can you?

 

WoT is not a feudal world. Which is why Elayne did tick off Rand very publicly by removing his banners from her city. She never behaved like his subordinate, nor did Aviendha (who also publicly challenged him by siding with Egwene in Merillor...). 

 

In fact, while Egwene challenges Rand all the time, she has never once even thought that she was his superior. It was Elayne who wished Rand would kneel to her. Many other Aes Sedai may have hoped for it too. Egwene herself never remotely wished for any such thing. 

 

The same is true with regards to Rand, and what he thought of Egwene as well. In the end, she was his equal simply because that was the dynamic in their relationship. In the whole wide world, the one person Rand felt he needed to convince to get the rest of the world to follow his plan was Egwene. And if there was one person who could frustrate Rand's plan, it was Egwene. And she did so. It needed Moiraine coming back from the dead to mediate between them,

 

The entire symbolic structure of WoT screams they're equals. Egwene's represented by the Flame (that's what Min's visions revealed right away), Rand by the Fang. And the central symbol of balance in WoT is the Flame and Fang fused, in balance... equal.

 

As Egwene's final realization showed, there is always a balance in the Pattern. Egwene was Rand's female counterpart. Neither of them saw it that way, of course, but that is how the Pattern intended it. The world could not be saved by either of their individual plans. Only the plan that compromised between their views was able to save the world. Hence, the world would have been destroyed (and Rand would have failed), but for Moiraine.

 

 

I agree with a lot of what you've said, but I don't think that Egwene and Rand are equals.  Otherwise, Elaida or Siuan, or Cadsuane would also count as Rand's equals.  Yes, they are equals in a thematic sense, but in-world I don't think they are.  Rand is the Dragon Reborn.  He is a ta'veren spun out by the Pattern as the Light's champion against the Dark.  He is pretty unique.  Egwene is a democratically elected leader of one group of channeling women.  Yes, she does an amazing job of that, and her role in the final battle is critical, but that is more down to her possessing Vora's sa'angreal and figuring how to fix the damage done by Balefire.  The Seanchan, Windfinders, Kin, and Aiel all bring more female channelers (and troops in general, in the case of the Seanchan and the Aiel) to the battlefield than the White Tower.  Yes, she has a lot of sway, but so would any Amyrlin.  As far as I am aware, there is not any in-series evidence that Egwene was intended by the Pattern to be Rand's counterpart.  Anymore than say Lan was spun out to be his mentor, or Min to keep him human.

 

I'm also not 100% sure that Egwene would treat him as an equal, but I think this is down to the overall portrayal of the male-female dynamic in the world of the WoT.  There are numerous times once she has become Amyrlin that she says something roughly equivalent to 'Rand would have to be guided'.  I don't think she would accept it if Rand said she needed to be guided, e.g.

 

ToM, chp. 3 'The Amyrlin's Anger

 

'Why have you come before the Amyrlin?'[...]Have you come to make a petition, or have you come to surrender yourself to the White Tower's guidance?'

 

ToM, chp. 27 'A Call to Stand'

 

'He will need a firm, familiar hand.'

[fionwe1987]

 

I agree with a lot of what you've said, but I don't think that Egwene and Rand are equals.  Otherwise, Elaida or Siuan, or Cadsuane would also count as Rand's equals.  Yes, they are equals in a thematic sense, but in-world I don't think they are.  Rand is the Dragon Reborn.  He is a ta'veren spun out by the Pattern as the Light's champion against the Dark.  He is pretty unique.  Egwene is a democratically elected leader of one group of channeling women.  Yes, she does an amazing job of that, and her role in the final battle is critical, but that is more down to her possessing Vora's sa'angreal and figuring how to fix the damage done by Balefire.  The Seanchan, Windfinders, Kin, and Aiel all bring more female channelers (and troops in general, in the case of the Seanchan and the Aiel) to the battlefield than the White Tower.  Yes, she has a lot of sway, but so would any Amyrlin.  As far as I am aware, there is not any in-series evidence that Egwene was intended by the Pattern to be Rand's counterpart.  Anymore than say Lan was spun out to be his mentor, or Min to keep him human.

 

I'm also not 100% sure that Egwene would treat him as an equal, but I think this is down to the overall portrayal of the male-female dynamic in the world of the WoT.  There are numerous times once she has become Amyrlin that she says something roughly equivalent to 'Rand would have to be guided'.  I don't think she would accept it if Rand said she needed to be guided, e.g.

 

ToM, chp. 3 'The Amyrlin's Anger

 

'Why have you come before the Amyrlin?'[...]Have you come to make a petition, or have you come to surrender yourself to the White Tower's guidance?'

 

ToM, chp. 27 'A Call to Stand'

 

'He will need a firm, familiar hand.'

 

I'm not saying any Amyrlin would be the equal of the Dragon (though I don't understand why Cadsuane is on that list. There was no Dragon Reborn when she got elected). I'm saying Egwene, specifically, is Rand's equal. Not because of her position, though that obviously is part of it. Her equaling Rand is more about the Pattern heavily maneuvering to place the one person it knew would be able to withstand Rand at his most powerful (as a ta'veren) as Amyrlin Seat. She's his equal not because she was the Amyrlin and all Amyrlin's would be equal to the Dragon, but because she is who she is.

 

Its pretty clear to me that Siuan would have made a pretty adequate Amyrlin for the Last Battle. She was intimately involved in finding Rand, and by all evidence had no ideas of shielding him and trotting him out on a leash to fight the DO. But the Pattern certainly worked to have her out (Min saw a vision of her naked and stilled, Elaida mistook a foretelling to mean Elayne was critical for the LB, and so maneuvered to remove Siuan when Elayne disappeared, etc.). Elaida was the necessary stand in till Egwene could come into her own and take the Amyrlin Seat.

 

The clues are all there: every other character had either been awed/scared by Rand when he exerted his ta'veren effect (depending on whether it was Dark Rand or Zen Rand). Nynaeve came close to being immune, but not fully, and she was needed elsewhere anyway. Tuon was afraid and awed, separately. Cadsuane too, felt it.

 

Now, Egwene never met Rand when he was at his darkest (who knows what would have happened then?). But she met him when he had just returned from Dragonmount, and was exerting his influence so powerfully that a Hall full of Sitters couldn't open their mouths. But she herself had no issues. Why? She figured it out. She saw him as Rand, not the Dragon. She did it before, in LoC, too:

 

Egwene opened her mouth—and realized that she was about to tell him all she knew about Salidar.

Barely in time she clamped her teeth shut so hard her jaws ached, and opened herself to saidar. The sweet feel of life, so strong it overwhelmed everything else, seemed to help; slowly the urge to talk began to ebb.

He sat back with a sigh, and she stared at him wide-eyed. It was one thing toSoiow he was the strongest ta 'veren since Artur Hawkwing, but quite something else to become caught up in it herself. It was all she could do not to hug herself and shiver. 

 

Tuon is the only other person to have done this once. Egwene did it more than once. She refused to be awed by his trappings and power, and behaved exactly as she behaved towards him in the Two Rivers. That was evident even in Merillor (yet another place where she evaded his ta'veren pull). And for his part, Rand, once he returned to sanity, also knew Egwene would be Egwene, Amyrlin or not.

 

There's all manner of thematic and plot based reasons that show they were equals. That their actions parallel each others, the way their lives ended, even the fact that what finally allowed Rand to deal with the DO was Egwene telling him he needs to let her share the burden of saving the world too. But aside from all that is the fact that she treated him her equal. Everyone else had one reason or other (love, fear, awe, friendship) to turn aside from their path and simply follow his. Egwene is the one person who, at the most critical moment of all, stood her ground and refused to change what she believed. Which is why she's his equal.

[Rhienne]

 

The clues are all there: every other character had either been awed/scared by Rand when he exerted his ta'veren effect (depending on whether it was Dark Rand or Zen Rand). Nynaeve came close to being immune, but not fully, and she was needed elsewhere anyway. Tuon was afraid and awed, separately. Cadsuane too, felt it.

 

Now, Egwene never met Rand when he was at his darkest (who knows what would have happened then?). But she met him when he had just returned from Dragonmount, and was exerting his influence so powerfully that a Hall full of Sitters couldn't open their mouths. But she herself had no issues. Why? She figured it out. She saw him as Rand, not the Dragon. She did it before, in LoC, too:

I have to say I interpreted that scene completely differently from you.  I thought that Rand's ta'veren nature did exactly what it needed to do.  The Sitters were all silenced because Rand needed to be able to have a conversation with Egwene without their interference.  I think Rand got exactly what he wanted from Egwene in that scene - that she gather the armies of the world for him because he doesn't have time to do so on his own.  At the end of their conversation Egwene even raises a hand to her head 'feeling dizzy'.  Egwene didn't feel like she was resisting anything during the scene. 

 

I just don't think there's any in-world evidence for Egwene being Rand's equal in anything more than a thematic sense (in which she is very definitely his parallel).  She's not ta'veren so the Pattern hasn't purposefully identified her a special soul in this turning of the wheel.  And yes, its fair to say that its worked out well that Egwene is Amyrlin but like I mentioned in my earlier post, I don't think there is anymore evidence for her being particularly special in terms of the pattern's plan than Lan, Min, Cadsuane, Nynaeve, etc.

[XXX]

If critical influence on Rand is what determines who was equal to him, then Cads should be on top of the list. She somehow (inadvertently IMO) got Rand off being Dark Rand, if not for that one thing, Rand would have destroyed the world that there was absolutely nothing Egwene or the WT could have done about it.

 

And as far as the scene at the WT goes, I agree with Rhienne, Rand got Egwene to do exactly what he wanted. What exactly did she resist? 

 

And Egwene did not have a plan, her only plan was not to break the seals at any cost. BS obviously saw that she was looking like a total douche in TOM and gave her multiple personality disorder within few pages by then saying tht maybe the seals shd be broken at a particular time.But she had not idea what that time would be.

Edited August 6, 2013 by XXX47

[Rhienne]

 

And Egwene did not have a plan, her only plan was not to break the seals at any cost. BS obviously saw that she was looking like a total douche in TOM and gave her multiple personality disorder within few pages by then saying tht maybe the seals shd be broken at a particular time.But she had not idea what that time would be.

Its a shame they didn't actually have a proper conversation about it - combining their resources (Rand's knowledge from LT, Cadsuane and Min's research on Callandor, the White Tower's libraries, knowledge of White and Brown Sisters, etc.) they could probably have had a proper discussion about it.  Instead, Rand doesn't bother to explain the reasons for his plan, and Egwene is automatically set against it without doing any research of her own to find an alternative and/or reasons for/against breaking the seals.

 

They obviously don't trust each other at all at this point, though.  Instead of Rand and Egwene meeting in her study, they confront each other as Amyrlin and Dragon.  Rand is shielded and Egwene's gut reaction is to want to keep him in the White Tower and have the Yellow's check him (which doesn't make a great deal of sense as she definitely knows that Nynaeve has been with him, and possibly knows that Corele is with him).

 

And then later when Nynaeve suggests asking Rand for help with Mesaana, Egwene cuts her off before Nynaeve can even finish her sentence.  Even if Rand hadn't been directly involved in the fight (which I don't think he should have been as it was in TAR), asking him what he knew about Mesaana would have been a good chance for them to communicate with each other.  Egwene herself has set Aes Sedai to specifically researching Mesaana's personality, which is something Rand could have helped with.

 

 

And Egwene did not have a plan, her only plan was not to break the seals at any cost. BS obviously saw that she was looking like a total douche in TOM and gave her multiple personality disorder within few pages by then saying tht maybe the seals shd be broken at a particular time.But she had not idea what that time would be.

I do think Egwene was very 'off' in ToM, but I think that was more down to BS's writing than to Egwene's character.  She went through an awful lot of character growth from ACoT-tGS and then she seems to be all over the place in ToM.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Rhienne

[Suttree]

And Egwene did not have a plan, her only plan was not to break the seals at any cost. BS obviously saw that she was looking like a total douche in TOM and gave her multiple personality disorder within few pages by then saying tht maybe the seals shd be broken at a particular time.But she had not idea what that time would be.

Yet as of ToM Rands plan was to break the seals and? Pray that Min found the answer for him in time? Look things had to play out as they did.

 

Further not sure how you can claim she thought the seals should not be broken at any cost and then go on to say she thought they had to be broken at the correct time? As for multiple personality disorder that started in ToM. Just see the meeting with Rand in TV for proof.

 

The author has already said both her and Rand's ideas were needed and it was Moiraine's role to get them on the same page. Egwene had sisters researching the issue and hit upon the fact that the seals had to be broken at the correct time. She even passed the order to do so along as she died which proved critical.

[snooze1128]

So, let me get this straight: Egwene dies, along with her discovery of maybe the single-greatest spell EVER!  Now nobody will rediscover that weave for thousands of years, if ever!  Common!!!

[Rhienne]

So, let me get this straight: Egwene dies, along with her discovery of maybe the single-greatest spell EVER!  Now nobody will rediscover that weave for thousands of years, if ever!  Common!!!

Maybe someone could confirm but I have a feeling that we've had author confirmation that the weave has been witnessed and can be replicated.  Hopefully there won't be too much more need for it as the world moves into a new Age though, anyway.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Rhienne

[threadnecromancer]

So, let me get this straight: Egwene dies, along with her discovery of maybe the single-greatest spell EVER!  Now nobody will rediscover that weave for thousands of years, if ever!  Common!!!

 

I thought it was a rather silly weave, perhaps if I ever reread the book it will make more sense but at the time I thought it was rather silly. But remember that as the wheel turns that weave shall be rediscovered so you don't have to feel bad.

[clutzyninja]

 

So, let me get this straight: Egwene dies, along with her discovery of maybe the single-greatest spell EVER!  Now nobody will rediscover that weave for thousands of years, if ever!  Common!!!

 

I thought it was a rather silly weave, perhaps if I ever reread the book it will make more sense but at the time I thought it was rather silly. But remember that as the wheel turns that weave shall be rediscovered so you don't have to feel bad.

 

Convenient yes, but not really silly.  yin and yang, black and white, all kinds of balances are a central theme in the books.  It only makes sense that there is an opposite to balefire.

[avernite]

 

 

So, let me get this straight: Egwene dies, along with her discovery of maybe the single-greatest spell EVER!  Now nobody will rediscover that weave for thousands of years, if ever!  Common!!!

 

I thought it was a rather silly weave, perhaps if I ever reread the book it will make more sense but at the time I thought it was rather silly. But remember that as the wheel turns that weave shall be rediscovered so you don't have to feel bad.

 

Convenient yes, but not really silly.  yin and yang, black and white, all kinds of balances are a central theme in the books.  It only makes sense that there is an opposite to balefire.

 

 

I don't know; fixing compulsion requires a sort of mirror-weave, but fireballs and lightning are usually dissolved with shields or dodging, rather than an anti-fireball. I would have found a weave that fixes the damage to the pattern from balefire quite reasonable - but a direct anti-weave that blocks the stream seems too much like an anti-fireball for me.

[Yamezt]

 

So, let me get this straight: Egwene dies, along with her discovery of maybe the single-greatest spell EVER!  Now nobody will rediscover that weave for thousands of years, if ever!  Common!!!

 

I thought it was a rather silly weave, perhaps if I ever reread the book it will make more sense but at the time I thought it was rather silly. But remember that as the wheel turns that weave shall be rediscovered so you don't have to feel bad.

 

I didn't think it needed a name - or if it was to be given one, it should be posthumous. Didn't think the weave itself was silly though.

 

It was either that, or Egwene picking up an iron shield (can't be a sword I guess due to 2nd oath - though iron shield probably would be near impossible to carry) with air - hurl it at Taim - turn it into cuendillar - and shield bash Taim to death through the balefire. Less glamorous though ^^

Edited August 8, 2013 by James Tham

[avernite]

 

 

So, let me get this straight: Egwene dies, along with her discovery of maybe the single-greatest spell EVER!  Now nobody will rediscover that weave for thousands of years, if ever!  Common!!!

 

I thought it was a rather silly weave, perhaps if I ever reread the book it will make more sense but at the time I thought it was rather silly. But remember that as the wheel turns that weave shall be rediscovered so you don't have to feel bad.

 

I didn't think it needed a name - or if it was to be given one, it should be posthumous. Didn't think the weave itself was silly though.

 

It was either that, or Egwene picking up an iron shield (can't be a sword I guess due to 2nd oath - though iron shield probably would be near impossible to carry) with air - hurl it at Taim - turn it into cuendillar - and shield bash Taim to death through the balefire. Less glamorous though ^^

 

 

They should've built a nice metal cage/ball, hurled it at Demandred, and then turned it to Cuendillar. See him dodge THAT ;)

[clutzyninja]

 

 

 

So, let me get this straight: Egwene dies, along with her discovery of maybe the single-greatest spell EVER!  Now nobody will rediscover that weave for thousands of years, if ever!  Common!!!

 

I thought it was a rather silly weave, perhaps if I ever reread the book it will make more sense but at the time I thought it was rather silly. But remember that as the wheel turns that weave shall be rediscovered so you don't have to feel bad.

 

Convenient yes, but not really silly.  yin and yang, black and white, all kinds of balances are a central theme in the books.  It only makes sense that there is an opposite to balefire.

 

 

I don't know; fixing compulsion requires a sort of mirror-weave, but fireballs and lightning are usually dissolved with shields or dodging, rather than an anti-fireball. I would have found a weave that fixes the damage to the pattern from balefire quite reasonable - but a direct anti-weave that blocks the stream seems too much like an anti-fireball for me.

 

Sure there's an anti-fireball.  It's called ice, that's fantasy magic 101 right there ;)  But if it's easier to just deflect it or block it then why bother?  The issue with balefire is that you CAN'T deflect it or block it.

 

The real point was that the channelers had been operating under the impression that balefire is unstoppable, and you just have to hope no one points it at you.  It was Perrin that reminded Egwene that it's just a weave like any other, so there MUST be a way to defeat it or cancel it out.

Edited August 9, 2013 by clutzyninja

[Patrick Logan]

The biggest flaw that I saw in Egwene's character was that while insisting that others see her as she has changed, she refuses to see anyone else as having changed. In her eyes, Nyn is still the angry Wisdom pulling her braid, Mat is still the troublesome youth, Perrin is still the slow but sturdy dependable one, and Rand is still the stubborn woolheaded youth. Each of these, at one point or another, she put her foot down insisting that she was the Amrylin Seat and whatever they knew about her from before must be suppressed, but that they were the exact same people who left the Two Rivers in the 1st book.

[Richard Hoffman]

The biggest flaw that I saw in Egwene's character was that while insisting that others see her as she has changed, she refuses to see anyone else as having changed. In her eyes, Nyn is still the angry Wisdom pulling her braid, Mat is still the troublesome youth, Perrin is still the slow but sturdy dependable one, and Rand is still the stubborn woolheaded youth. Each of these, at one point or another, she put her foot down insisting that she was the Amrylin Seat and whatever they knew about her from before must be suppressed, but that they were the exact same people who left the Two Rivers in the 1st book.

 

Agree 100%. I was pro Egwene up until she became the official Amyrlin Seat, then I saw her as a tyrant. I almost wished she had survived only to realize that the 4th age ushered in several new capable monarchs and a cleansed black tower, none of which needed some pompous, arrogant Aes Sedai "advisor"!

[Goathill]

Her character became irrelevant after she was named Amyrlin in Salidar she couldn't speak 2 sentences without proclaiming she was Amyrlin. The whole split of the White Tower lasted much too long and was never a real player in the story after the Battle of Dumai's Wells. Yes certain Aes Sedai still played major roles but they were largely independent of Tar Valon.  I was happy to see her die I was pissed that it happened at the very end of the series all that time wasted on a self centered character which brought so little to the whole in the end.      

[Richard Hoffman]

Her character became irrelevant after she was named Amyrlin in Salidar she couldn't speak 2 sentences without proclaiming she was Amyrlin. The whole split of the White Tower lasted much too long and was never a real player in the story after the Battle of Dumai's Wells. Yes certain Aes Sedai still played major roles but they were largely independent of Tar Valon.  I was happy to see her die I was pissed that it happened at the very end of the series all that time wasted on a self centered character which brought so little to the whole in the end.      

She really started grinding my gears when she considered herself Rand's equal, or quite possibly his better and actually had the gall to attempt to unite nations against him!

[Suttree]

 

Her character became irrelevant after she was named Amyrlin in Salidar she couldn't speak 2 sentences without proclaiming she was Amyrlin. The whole split of the White Tower lasted much too long and was never a real player in the story after the Battle of Dumai's Wells. Yes certain Aes Sedai still played major roles but they were largely independent of Tar Valon.  I was happy to see her die I was pissed that it happened at the very end of the series all that time wasted on a self centered character which brought so little to the whole in the end.      

She really started grinding my gears when she considered herself Rand's equal, or quite possibly his better and actually had the gall to attempt to unite nations against him!

 

 

ZOMFG! The gall to try and unite the countries against the DR!?!?!

 

Curious as to what else you would have her do considering she had been hearing word of Dark Rand's atrocities and at that point his plan was basically break the seals and pray Min came up with the key to sealing the bore(essentially he had no plan). There was no other realistic option for her to take.

 

Further I have no idea what Goathill is talking about seeing as how she played a crucial role in key events. The author has said Moiraine was needed as she got Rand and Egwene to work together at the FoM. Rand to break the seals and Egwene to delay him so it happened at the right time. She is the one who found out the right time to break the seals through WT research and gave order for it to be done in addition to healing much of the damage from balefire.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Suttree

[Goathill]

What crucial role in what key events? She did not have the seals she did not break them and she only even agreed to consider breaking them. Then never thought about them again The Black Tower searched for, found and, broke them. Nynaeve played much more of a crucial role. Egwene's only real talent seemed to be getting captured and saying "I am the Amyrlin seat".

[BFG]

Logain breaks the seals after hearing Egwenes last words - look for the light (to paraphrase).  Breaking the seals at the wrong time would have been disastrous.

 

Additionally as Sutt says, she healed much of the damage done by balefire and took out most of the Sharan Channelers. 

 

Given that Moiraine was crucial for bringing Rand and Eg together, then Eg was important.