What do you NEED to happen in A Memory of Light?

[Atheose]

What events do you need to happen in the finale, such that them not happening would leave you disappointed? 

 

For me it's Rand and the Dark One having a conversation/confrontation. I want to hear them discussing the world, what he wants to do, etc.. Thankfully the Memory of Light from Jan 1 pretty much guarantees that this will happen.

 

I also need Rand and Moraine to have a reunion. Though I think this seems pretty likely, and necessary for the plot. 

 

How about the rest of you?

[SylvanFox]

So much... I'd really like for the wolves to do something spectacular. They have been saying since book one that the wolves would be there, that they hated the Shadow. And as much as Perrin's chapters sometimes get on my nerves, I like Perrin himself, and I want to see his special ability put to more use than just calling on wolves for simple things, or fighting in T'A'R. I need to see hundreds upon hundreds of wolves tearing Trollocs apart with their teeth.

[skalors3]

Rand to stay dead at some point in the book (He deserves death, in a good way)

 

Min to be truthspeaker (she's the obvious choice)

 

Roderan NOT being Demandred (Demandred being in Shara would make my day since I have held to that for a long time and I am the only one)

 

Lan dying before ensuring the survival of his line.

[Terez]

Roderan NOT being Demandred (Demandred being in Shara would make my day since I have held to that for a long time and I am the only one)

 

You really believe that? Clearly you haven't been here long...

[skalors3]

I have always been here (just trolling) and I have never believed that. Murandy is a nothing land that is landlocked. Its army is miniscule and its only strategic value would be an assault in Camelyn.

 

Despite the little evidence seen for it, I think there is just the same amount seen (albeit weaker) for Dem being in Shara and it would make sense for him to be there. Nothing may directly link Dem being there (aside from his comment about Sammael not staying hidden which would lead me to believe he isn't in Randland either) but there is to much about Shara for it to be a non-entity in the story. If you combine that with the fact that it is a land of easily manipulated slaves, a breeding ground for channelers that are unaccounted for (the only ones that are), and that we have a missing forsaken, I see it as the best choice for the DO 's champion.

 

Also, there are many theories here I dont agree with, despite evidence seen. However, the Roderan one is, to me, so non-sensical that I am certain it is wrong.

[yoniy0]

She meant, do you believe you're the only one. You're far from it, trust me (or her, if you're so inclined).

 

Terez wouldn't comment on the actual issue, not after reading the book. We're all careful about this sort of thing.

[skalors3]

I was fishing! I have been deadset on Dem being in Shara since WH. I am so certain I would be devastated if I was wrong. Lol

[Selene's Shadow]

Logain to come back in glory and dramatically save the Black Tower.

Narishma to wield Callandor sometimes (meh..to all other theories)

 

Ituralde to save the day for the armies of the light. 

Tuon to finally admit to being able to channel, she also needs to admit to being in true love with Mat (no hints) and that Mat is not merely a lowly subject of hers but rather a Ta'averen who is going to save the world.

Also the Ogier to fight alongside humans and wolves with Loial at their helm. 

Egwene to be incapacitated for TG and have to watch by the sidelines totally helpless

 

The Aes Sedai are all brought down a notch when it comes to arrogance.

Tam is one of the primary generals at the the last battle.

Rand to stun everyone at the FOM and for them to all come to a sudden realisation that he is right.

Aviendha and the wise ones to teach the Seanchan a lesson.

 

Androl informing Rand + all Ashaman of advantages of having a link such as he has with Pevara and Rand using it to bond together the AS and defeat the DO as the two factions finally have proper unity not one above another.(Ok maybe not..)

Graendal to be the last living forsaken. 

Padan Fain to take down Shaidar Haran and at least one forsaken..

Lanfear to turn to the light.

Mat to take command of the light's armies at the last possible second and save them from imminent destruction (along with Rodel)

Lan to teach Rand a final vital lesson before dying to give Rand time to defeat the DO (something along the lines of sheathing your sword)

Rand to not go and live in some woods with Min where he will never be seen again.

 

Ok I maybe a bit too hopeful.. but you can never stop dreaming :)

[yoniy0]

I was fishing! I have been deadset on Dem being in Shara since WH. I am so certain I would be devastated if I was wrong. Lol

As I said, we're careful about this sort of thing. Asking for spoilers on this board will get you banned just as easily as posting them. Besides, it's not very nice, being the reason for some people being spoiled, and for the member you were baiting being banned. So don't; if you want to be spoiled, go over to the full spoiler board and politely ask for it there.

[n.lindstrom]

I want Mat's arrival at the WT to claim the Horn to be god damn glorious.

And I want him to reunite with Bode.

I assume he'll play a key role in uniting the Seanchan with the WL, not only as PotR but as an army leader.

 

Perrin's wolfbro reveal.

 

Elan or Mierin (or both) to convert to the light.

 

And as the guy above said, I'd like the AS to be spanked a bit, what with the whole "only bonds where the woman is in charge are OK" and all.

[Suttree]

And as the guy above said, I'd like the AS to be spanked a bit, what with the whole "only bonds where the woman is in charge are OK" and all.

Spanked more than they have already? Dude, they have been getting smacked around for books now. Think it's pretty clear they have bottomed out and are now set up for redemption at TG.

[djstipe]

So much... I'd really like for the wolves to do something spectacular. They have been saying since book one that the wolves would be there, that they hated the Shadow. And as much as Perrin's chapters sometimes get on my nerves, I like Perrin himself, and I want to see his special ability put to more use than just calling on wolves for simple things, or fighting in T'A'R. I need to see hundreds upon hundreds of wolves tearing Trollocs apart with their teeth.

 

I think we are guaranteed thousands of wolves at the last battle, but for me, I just want one - Hopper.  When Mat blows the horn, I want the three T'V'Ns to be together in some way - maybe through the colors rather than geographically - to experience the return of the Heroes of the Horn.  Maybe Rand doesn't know Morraine is alive yet and sees Mat coming after blowing the horn, along with the Heroes of the Horn with Morraine by his side, and Rand will assume she's dead and joined the heroes?  The realization that the most important name on his list-o-women-I-shouldn't-have-killed (who doesn't have one of these, am I right or am I right?) isn't actually dead might be an interesting return to that achiles heal he's had for so long, a way for him to make peace with some of that.

 

That part is pretty sketchy I'll admit, but the thing I really want to see is Hopper return as a Hero.  Most people I've spoken to say I'm crazy because what happened to him is permanent and when you die in the wolf dream you die for real.  But when Hopper bites it in ToM, Perrin wonders where he went after he died - maybe during the scene where they forge his hammer? - which seemed to leave the door open a little.  At any rate...there will be tears involved if it does happen.  Probably just wishful thinking, but Hopper made the Perrin sequences for me, and he deserves to be a Hero.

[djstipe]

I want time to become linear without the taint and without the presence of the dark one, and for Rand's Lews Theron self to be allowed to Die, but his Rand self be allowed to live on in the current "age".

 

I'm sure this theory is out there (lots of crazy devoted fans here, and I'm only 3 days old from my birth on Dragonmount, so haven't been able to filter through many of the posts yet), but so far haven't seen it here.  It's probably already been debunked, but I'm holding onto it as a pipe-dream.  The big reason this came up for me is the RJ interview that plays at the end of most of the early audiobooks (at least from Audible).  He talks about how aweful the concept of cyclical time would be to live in, being doomed to repeat the same mistakes and live the same lives over and over.  As an author, I'm thinking he might have been aiming for this redemption from the beginning, but I am probably reading too much into it.

 

How?  I see the halves of the source (the force that powers the wheel of time) as opposing strips of a thermocoil that was once flat.  When the dark one applied his taint-o-matic machine to the flat thermocoil, it only affected the male half, causing it to coil time into a wheel.  Now that the taint has been removed, when Rand's age ends, the world can go on and turn those Dragons (Aludra's kind) into nuclear bombs and usher in the age of capitalism, Justin Beiber and 50 Shades of Gray (READ: the age we are in).

[djstipe]

 

And as the guy above said, I'd like the AS to be spanked a bit, what with the whole "only bonds where the woman is in charge are OK" and all.

Spanked more than they have already? Dude, they have been getting smacked around for books now. Think it's pretty clear they have bottomed out and are now set up for redemption at TG.

 

They've been getting smacked around, but not showing signs of learning too many lessons.  Even though Egwene's leadership is pushing toward a more adept White Tower, she still KNOWS that Rand is wrong - still believes that the AS should be able to command him not to break the seals.  And on an individual basis, this shows in the fact they do still believe women should be in charge of those bonds.  I think more than a spanking, they need a declaration of regret, some sort of acknowledgement that the White Tower's past meddlings aided the DO rather than Rand.  Some sort of treaty with the Black Tower (reunited under Logain?) that puts them on equal footing.  Having Egwene sidelined during the last battle at SG (as someone in this thread suggested) would be a great start.

 

And for Light's sake, can we get these girls some dramamine?  How many Aes Sedia can vomit from the saddle of a horse before the world sees them as the cowardly lions they are hiding behind the mistique of the AS and the WT?

[djstipe]

And for Light's sake, can we get these girls some dramamine?  How many Aes Sedia can vomit from the saddle of a horse before the world sees them as the cowardly lions they are hiding behind the mistique of the AS and the WT?

 

Maybe the Wizard of that grand old tale would be a better analogy than the cowardly lion, actually.

 

Side note - how many self-replies does it take to get labelled a narcisist?

[n.lindstrom]

I forgot to mention that I would love for Mat, Perrin and perhaps Galad to kill a Forsaken each in single combat.

[skalors3]

 

 

 

It wasn't my intention to give the idea I was asking for

I was fishing! I have been deadset on Dem being in Shara since WH. I am so certain I would be devastated if I was wrong. Lol

As I said, we're careful about this sort of thing. Asking for spoilers on this board will get you banned just as easily as posting them. Besides, it's not very nice, being the reason for some people being spoiled, and for the member you were baiting being banned. So don't; if you want to be spoiled, go over to the full spoiler board and politely ask for it there.

It wasn't my intention to seem like I was fishing for spoilers. I was hoping to elicit a comment though, not confirmation of my theory.

 

It is a moot point anyways. I just found a book in north carolina. I'll be in the other forum for a while. If you're near greensboro, send me a pm. I got it 10 minutes ago.

[Suttree]

They've been getting smacked around, but not showing signs of learning too many lessons.  Even though Egwene's leadership is pushing toward a more adept White Tower, she still KNOWS that Rand is wrong - still believes that the AS should be able to command him not to break the seals.  

You haven't read the pre-release materials from AMoL have you?

 

Regardless you don't even have to have read that to understand this is not correct. He refused to discuss the situation with her, has no idea what to do after breaking the seals(praying Min finds an answer for him doesn't count), and purposely antagonized her into taking the stance she did. He left her no other option but to question why the seals needed to be broken. It would be totally unrealistic for her to take any other stance given the circumstances(especially knowing his dark mindset and the atrocities committed just before his epiphany)  but that doesn't mean the AS haven't been looking into it and it certainly doesn't mean she has made up her mind given they haven't even discussed it at the FoM yet. I also find it strange that people always get so indignant in terms to her questioning his plan and yet they totally forget about the link with Moridin and how they are still influencing each other. Yes totally bad idea to question someone who is being influenced by a forsaken.

 

Additionally they have certainly learned a number of lessons. Egwene has already done more to reform the WT than any other amyrlin in thousands of years.

 

ToM

 

"The world as it was cannot be ours any longer," Egwene said softly, not wanting the Wise Ones to overhear. "Was it ever? The Black Tower bonds Aes Sedai, the Aiel no longer revere us, the Windfinders have hidden their best channelers from us for centuries and are becoming increasingly belligerent. If we try to hold too tightly to all of this, we will either become tyrants or fools, depending upon how successful we are. I accept neither title.

 

Also the cooperation between asha'man and AS has been neatly foreshadowed and set up. The ground work has already been laid out for them to be on equal footing and that will only strengthen after they work together on an even level at TG.

 

I think more than a spanking, they need a declaration of regret, some sort of acknowledgement that the White Tower's past meddlings aided the DO rather than Rand.

You must be joking. Even were it true(which it isn't remotely) that would be the worst possible move leading up to TG. It is precisely that type of hyperbole aimed at the AS which usually derails any rational discussion of the topic. They had a forsaken in their midst and the BA causing chaos but I'm not sure how anyone could blame them for that. Further the AS have been the major force against the shadow for 3,000 years. Make no mistake they are a failed institution but they have saved the world a few times over and have done far more harm than good. AS Moiraine said:

 

 

'TFOH 15, What Can Be Learned From Dreams' said:

Moiraine sighed, a soft sound. "Do you expect me to be happy that the White Tower has split apart? I am Aes Sedai, Egwene. I gave my life to the Tower long before I ever suspected the Dragon would be Reborn in my lifetime. The Tower has been a bulwark against the Shadow for three thousand years. It has guided rulers to wise decisions, stopped wars before they began, halted wars that did begin. That humankind even remembers that the Dark One waits to escape, that the Last Battle will come, is because of the Tower. The Tower, whole and united. I could almost wish that every sister had sworn to Elaida, whatever happened to Siuan."

 

djstipe

And for Light's sake, can we get these girls some dramamine?  How many Aes Sedia can vomit from the saddle of a horse before the world sees them as the cowardly lions they are hiding behind the mistique of the AS and the WT?

Have no idea what you are even referring to here? At any given time over a 1/3 of the WT(and they cycle in and out) is out in the world working for the good of the world. They have earned their stripes many times over patrolling the blight, taking down circles of DF's, searching out and healing outbreaks of disease, forging treaties to avert wars, propping up thrones etc. Once again they have come up short in relation to their potential but that is a far cry from what you seem to be suggesting.

[yoniy0]

and have done far more harm than good.

You probably meant the other way around, didn't you, Sutt?

 

In any event, this is NOT a thread about the WT. Don't make it one, everyone, or it'll get locked.

[djstipe]

That quote from ToM, and Egwene's rationality surrounding that thought process is exactly why I think the AS will end up bending to a will greater than their own. I don't think Egwene will be sidelined exactly, but I think her role will be in TAR. I've read most of the pre-release stuff, but didn't see Egwene coming around to Rand's way of thinking - which I think is right. I think he has to break the seals to fight the DO on "our" terms. Maybe that's just what RJ want me to think, that would be cool.

 

I do tend to joke a lot, and the comment about puking was aimed at what I see as inconsistent characterization of the AS. I'm sure it's done for a reason, and maybe something as simple as to show them as human, but the visceral reaction of some of the non-pov characters (without any decent explaination from the POV characters) when things get out of their control has always stuck out to me and pulled me a bit out of the story. I would be happy to see that resolved, though it's a small thing and yes mentioned in jest.

 

And I don't think the AS have historically been a sham, but as for team Rand and the past few years, most of their actions have been additional challenges to the good guys (read: good for the bad guys). Egwene has turned that around and don't get me wrong, I think Egwene is a great A. Seat, but I think there is still some mending for the WT to do before they can be anywhere near as powerful as they will need to be, and as aligned as they need to be (something Egwene seems to be admitting to in her statement).

 

As for Rand and Egwene's discussion re: the seals, it could be my bias toward Rand, but it seemed to me that she was the one to shut the conversation down by telling him he couldn't do it. I'll have to go reread that scene, though. And as for his plans, I think he's just holding out on us (RJ/BS from the reader, Rand from Egwene et al) similar to the lead up to operation taint-cleanse.

 

We still need at least one more epic fail on Rand's part. It's an interesting thought that the plan he's so confident in for breaking the seals turns out to be the wrong thing to do and Egwene has to come to the rescue. Or that he fails to convince her to break the seals, which turns out to be tragic. Either way, it seemed to me they were both set in their stance on whether it should be done. I'll get though the pre-release stuff tomorrow, sounds like there will be some movement there.

 

From a book stand point I think you are 100% correct and it would weaken the institution of the WT beyond what's good for the story to have the WT actually proclaim something publicly on the heels of TG. I guess it's from a personal standpoint I just think they've screwed the pooch enough I want to see them acknowledge it.

 

And I hope I don't come off as indignant. Flippant, maybe. Smart alec? Sure, but hopefully not discrespectfully. I'm new here and these are my first posts on the subject. I don't study the books (as I don't think I want to write epic fantasy), I've just read them for fun twice now. I will probably be wrong a lot, and I'll be the first one to admit it when it happens. Sorry for any mistakes...this took too long to type and I'm up way past my bed time. Again.

 

Cheers...DJ

[yoniy0]

You should also know that Brandon said Egwene shines the brightest in this book, except of course for Rand. I hardly think her role would be as contained as you seem to.

[Terez]

Wasn't it Jason that said that?

[Southpaw89]

You should also know that Brandon said Egwene shines the brightest in this book, except of course for Rand. I hardly think her role would be as contained as you seem to.

 

 

Wasn't it Jason that said that?

 

Yes it was Jason who said that Rand and Egwene shine the brightest in AMoL.

[yoniy0]

Oh, sorry Brandon (more likely Peter will run into it, but whatever). I thought I knew what I was talking about.

[djstipe]

I'm sure she will have a key role - but as I revised, I was probably speaking more about a personal desire than what I think needs to happen from a story point.

 

I believe TAR is going to be huge in the last battle, and think her part there will be key. But I have a feeling that will be what keeps her busy (sidelined) while Rand is busy breaking the seals, and that being wrong about that could lend itself to her accepting some authority greater than the A. Seat. I am probably wrong about this and many other things, and am very excited to be proven wrong - by RJ and BS, as I read the book (which I will get on release date). I would prefer not to hear what other's who have read the book have to say about it, though, which is why I'm in this forum as opposed to the full spoiler board.

 

You should also know that Brandon said Egwene shines the brightest in this book, except of course for Rand. I hardly think her role would be as contained as you seem to.

 

 

Wasn't it Jason that said that?

 

Yes it was Jason who said that Rand and Egwene shine the brightest in AMoL.