A Luckers Teaser

[yoniy0]

Luckers, will you post your review on the 8th?

 

He promised it at 00:01 Sydney time, which should technically still be Monday for most of us.

[Rufae]

"Something that is occurring..." that implies an event or action currently in process. So that helps rule out the topics touched on list.

 

 

#2 male sa'angreal

Bonding  - male/female channeler bonding at the BT?

Linking / circles - meh, not really an event currently occuring

Min's visions

Rand in appearing in TAR and RL simultaneously

Seals - seals are weakening and breaking and the process/why of that?

Black Tower - Broad event point, perhaps something more specific here?

Battle of Caemlyn - We know from the pre-release material that this is pretty much over without any big mistake moments

Callandor

Rand cutting balefire simply by holding callandor in front of him

inadequate blocking of waygate - spadowspawn travelling the Ways and the blocking of the Waygates

Talmanes at Caemlyn/near death experience

13x13 process - something to do with the process of 13x13?

Dreams and protecting them - meh, perhaps something about warding dreams?

AS at FOM but no novice/accepted

exposing fireworks to air

nature of the taint on the ways - see above on the Waygates

Tinker lady's conversation with Moiraine - maybe the Tinkers haev a major role with Moriane in the future that we know will happen?

How did Moiraine know Sam and Bel'al in illian and tear

Did Lanfear delve Mat - Mat's Luck?

Why did Moiraine let others know Mat sounded the horn

Saldea

Darkhounds - the large darkhound pack roaming around?

Wolfbrothers - ?

Aiel

Balefire

TAR - that nature of events, effects of TAR?

[mbuehner]

So say its dream warding- didn't Lanfear say she could break past his warding but it would be painful (for him)? But that had to be long after TDR since it was Asmodeon that showed him how to do it. But perhaps a more general issue with entering dreams. Literally, what's going on right now (if you ignore the spoiler chapters) would be Rand having a dream of Lanfear, since that was the last bit of ToM.

 

But the most common assumption (I believe) was that this was accomplished via Moridins connection to Rand, and hence a trap concocted between Cyndane and Moridin.  But perhaps that doesn't end up being so and we should be reexamining what we know about entering dreams?

[mbuehner]

But that seems pretty interesting, and Luckers seems to indicate this issue isn't all that compelling to the plot as opposed to us minutia lovers. I think my best guess is mixed gender circles and who controls them, i'd always thought there was some confusion as to how they worked. And that seems like the kind of subject that like, oh, ok, whatever, so men lead a 2 way bond not women, great.

[clusterflux]

Can't believe no one has said this, but what about the idea that Ishamael is Ba'alzamon? The Big White Book supports this idea, and the battle with Ishamael was offhand mentioned in this thread already, but in the context of something else. If it turns out they are different, it would indeed seem a mistake that had been explained away in TDR.

[Shami]

Can't believe no one has said this, but what about the idea that Ishamael is Ba'alzamon? The Big White Book supports this idea, and the battle with Ishamael was offhand mentioned in this thread already, but in the context of something else. If it turns out they are different, it would indeed seem a mistake that had been explained away in TDR.

The problem with this is how everybody relevant knows ba'alzamon was Ishmael and thus there being mistake regarding is slim IMO. Too many know bout it, Rand and boys, Moiraine, Egwene and co, Forsaken. Rand thought he killed Dark One few times but even he accepted it was Ishmael after battle in Stone.

[Agitel]

 

Can't believe no one has said this, but what about the idea that Ishamael is Ba'alzamon? The Big White Book supports this idea, and the battle with Ishamael was offhand mentioned in this thread already, but in the context of something else. If it turns out they are different, it would indeed seem a mistake that had been explained away in TDR.

The problem with this is how everybody relevant knows ba'alzamon was Ishmael and thus there being mistake regarding is slim IMO. Too many know bout it, Rand and boys, Moiraine, Egwene and co, Forsaken. Rand thought he killed Dark One few times but even he accepted it was Ishmael after battle in Stone.

 

It could have to do with Ishamael's connection to the DO when he 'was' Ba'alzamon. He believed himself to be the DO, it seemed, and seems to have had an... intimate connection with him. So let's not go so far as to say that it turns out they were different people entirely, but perhaps Moridin's or Rand's (through Moridin) connections will seem like a mistake or to contradict the known metaphysics of the world until we remember Ba'alzy from tDR.

 

Another idea that may come up in the last book is the idea of the Lace of Ages and Mirror Worlds and Parallel Worlds.

[clusterflux]

 

 

Can't believe no one has said this, but what about the idea that Ishamael is Ba'alzamon? The Big White Book supports this idea, and the battle with Ishamael was offhand mentioned in this thread already, but in the context of something else. If it turns out they are different, it would indeed seem a mistake that had been explained away in TDR.

The problem with this is how everybody relevant knows ba'alzamon was Ishmael and thus there being mistake regarding is slim IMO. Too many know bout it, Rand and boys, Moiraine, Egwene and co, Forsaken. Rand thought he killed Dark One few times but even he accepted it was Ishmael after battle in Stone.

I've always wondered about this though. Didn't Egwene just tell everyone about that snippet of high chant from Verin and after that everyone (including the readers) just assumed that explained it all? Do we ever have a POV from one of the Forsaken that confirms that he was Ba'alzamon? Honestly, we probably do have that quote somewhere. I feel like it's been confirmed somewhere and I really don't think it's going to turn out not to be true. BUT, I always felt there was something fishy about Ishamael's connection to the DO. For some reason my first thought on Lucker's post was about Ishamael.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can't believe no one has said this, but what about the idea that Ishamael is Ba'alzamon? The Big White Book supports this idea, and the battle with Ishamael was offhand mentioned in this thread already, but in the context of something else. If it turns out they are different, it would indeed seem a mistake that had been explained away in TDR.

The problem with this is how everybody relevant knows ba'alzamon was Ishmael and thus there being mistake regarding is slim IMO. Too many know bout it, Rand and boys, Moiraine, Egwene and co, Forsaken. Rand thought he killed Dark One few times but even he accepted it was Ishmael after battle in Stone.

It could have to do with Ishamael's connection to the DO when he 'was' Ba'alzamon. He believed himself to be the DO, it seemed, and seems to have had an... intimate connection with him. So let's not go so far as to say that it turns out they were different people entirely, but perhaps Moridin's or Rand's (through Moridin) connections will seem like a mistake or to contradict the known metaphysics of the world until we remember Ba'alzy from tDR.

 

Another idea that may come up in the last book is the idea of the Lace of Ages and Mirror Worlds and Parallel Worlds.

That connection is something I have wondered about. Why did he have a big fat cord and everyone else has small little cords? A lot of things struck me as 'off' when I reread EotW for the first time in 10 years recently heh.

 

Anyway, I just got the book early :D Needed to get a last word in before I wander off for 2 days! See you on the other side.

[Shami]

Forsaken know, offhand I can think of evil convention lead by Lanfear on shadow rising - "Half of the alive forsaken in one place and nobody trying to kill one another... Ishmael kept us from each others throats for a while...". I think it was Graendal's line. There was something bout not much of man left in him also, where Lanfear commented if they are only men, not something more.

 

But yes, I think we only got Moiraine's explanation how the body is only man's and not DO's, add Verin's note trough Egwene. Now that I think it, Perrin might not know on screen and I can't remember if all the girls were on that scene.

 

I actually remembered how Lews Therin remembers killing Ishmael, in LoC I think. On tGS, Rand's visit on Moridin's dream confirms it was Ishmael from his own mouth.

[Luckers]

New hint. The subject matter is something Yoni listed, though thats not the specific issue.

[MrBlack]

From the additional hints we've been given, I can only guess one of two things:

 

1) The 13x13 turning process can use a mixed circle of 13 channelers (for some reason, I had always assumed they had to use 13 women to turn women, or 13 men to turn men).

 

2) Entering the Dream in the flesh being something evil.

[Luckers]

It is related to one of those things.

[Agitel]

It is related to one of those things.

 

When people figure this out, can you explain why you initially thought of it as a mistake? Or why it seemed like one?

[Rufae]

For me, a mistake I thought about was fish appearing in TAR. But that isn't the mistake you are talking about.

[Aver]

From the additional hints we've been given, I can only guess one of two things:

 

1) The 13x13 turning process can use a mixed circle of 13 channelers (for some reason, I had always assumed they had to use 13 women to turn women, or 13 men to turn men).

 

2) Entering the Dream in the flesh being something evil.

So I'm going to take a shot in the dark here. Male channelers should not be able to link in a circle of thirteen to wield the one power. They would need a woman. It is implied that a 13x13 of men and myddraal turns woman quicker still not possible though UNLESS they are using the true power to turn channelers! 

[Aver]

 

[MrBlack]

 

From the additional hints we've been given, I can only guess one of two things:

 

1) The 13x13 turning process can use a mixed circle of 13 channelers (for some reason, I had always assumed they had to use 13 women to turn women, or 13 men to turn men).

 

2) Entering the Dream in the flesh being something evil.

So I'm going to take a shot in the dark here. Male channelers should not be able to link in a circle of thirteen to wield the one power. They would need a woman. It is implied that a 13x13 of men and myddraal turns woman quicker still not possible though UNLESS they are using the true power to turn channelers! 

Maybe this is it.

 

You're right that men should not be able to link without a woman present, but as I recall, the turnings were originally done with only men.  In fact, they mentioned that it would go faster with women added to the process.

 

The answer is that they aren't linking at all.  Sheriam said in tDR that the men are simply channelling through the 13 myrddraal, not linking with or through them.

[Luckers]

 

It is related to one of those things.

 

When people figure this out, can you explain why you initially thought of it as a mistake? Or why it seemed like one?

 

 

I actually didn't think it was one, my reaction to hearing it was 'Umm, that's not a a mistake, due to [insert quote from tDR]. Someone else pointed out then that there is seemingly a quote from the Guide that is contradictory. Ultimately the notes state that Jordan always intended the tDR explanation to be the one.

 

Incidentally someone got it--or at least close enough--I'm going to cover the answer in a spoiler tag to be on the safe side (though, again, you can figure out that this has been happening from what you know, as I've said--still it is on you to decide whether to view it).

 

 

The issue was how the Asha'man were turning people--as the Guide says, that requires a circle between channelers and myrrdraal--which, of course, how could men be doing on their own? However the initial statement, and only statement in the actual books is that it requires thirteen Dreadlords weaving the flows through thirteen Myrdraal. No mention of the need to make any sort of link, though people obviously assumed it due to the number thirteen (I'd say Theresa Patterson did to, its an obvious connection to make, though not necessarily a valid one). In any case, RJ's notes were very clear that this is indeed the way it works--and even if it didn't, we have the old rule that if the Guide contradicts the books then the Guide gets thrown out the window (unless someone from Team Jordan specifically upholds what's said in the Guide.

 

 

So, I know it wasn't a huge thing, but I hope you guys enjoyed it and it helped stave off at least some of the pre-book jitters. Remember if you are going to discuss this further in thread be considerate of even the implication of spoilers (hide in a spoilers tag AND NO OTHER MATERIAL IS TO BE RAISED ABOUT THE BOOK).