Prologue Through to the End of Chapter 30

[Luckers]

Discuss.

[Rand the Plumber]

Considerations.

 

I loved Egwene's challenge to Fortuonamaysheliveforever, but I thought that the incipient catfight was a bit off.  It made me think of this:

 

 

Oh.  Bashere?  Well there'll be some "I told you so"s after that.

 

I didn't expect Min to get that position, although she fits perfectly.  Fortuonandonandon should have been exposed at birth, though.

 

And Agelmar?  I didn't see that one coming.

 

Bryne?  Ituralde?  Hmm.  Graeffalump has been a busy little munchkin, hasn't she?

 

Deep fried Trolloc!  Get 'em while they're crunchy!

[cornichon]

What do you mean about Bashere?  I think some people had suggested he was a Darkfriend, but he's not, right?  At least I assume that none of the captains is a Darkfriend, merely suffering from whatever Compulsion Graendal is applying.

 

Also, chapter 30 was pretty badass.  I posted in one of these earlier threads that I was annoyed at the Aes Sedai for not using Gateways strategically enough.  Guess it took Androl to show them something.  What I'd really love to see is a huge Gateway in the ground and walls of Air surrounding the opposing army that then push inward (think Star Wars compactor scene), flushing a whole Army into a volcano or something.

[Rand the Plumber]

What do you mean about Bashere?  I think some people had suggested he was a Darkfriend, but he's not, right?  At least I assume that none of the captains is a Darkfriend, merely suffering from whatever Compulsion Graendal is applying.

You're right.  I was typing a running commentary as I read.

 

I was up far too late last night, and then spent the morning in front of a grumpy judge.  I must try to get to sleep before midnight tonight.

[Olver_is_a_Forsaken]

Also, chapter 30 was pretty badass.  I posted in one of these earlier threads that I was annoyed at the Aes Sedai for not using Gateways strategically enough.  Guess it took Androl to show them something.  What I'd really love to see is a huge Gateway ...flushing a whole Army into a volcano or something.

 

 

Ya, Androl was pretty great. Why bring your enemy to the volcano, when you can bring the volcano to your enemy?! 

[EvelynneWeakley]

OK, one thing is really bugging me.  Gareth Bryne is Bonded to Siuan, so doesn't the Warder Bond protect to some extent from Compulsion?  Or at the very least why wasn't Siuan suspicious?  

[MarkDiLillo]

OK, one thing is really bugging me.  Gareth Bryne is Bonded to Siuan, so doesn't the Warder Bond protect to some extent from Compulsion?  Or at the very least why wasn't Siuan suspicious?  

 

I dont know that we have seen anything about the warder bond protecting from compulsion.  Siuan not noticing anything is wrong may be a bit odd though.  Then again, Graendal was the greatest Compulsion user to live and she looked to be using it very cleverly rather than just totally controlling their minds so I dont feel like it was too off for Siuan not to notice.

[Guest mep321]

 

OK, one thing is really bugging me.  Gareth Bryne is Bonded to Siuan, so doesn't the Warder Bond protect to some extent from Compulsion?  Or at the very least why wasn't Siuan suspicious?  

 

I dont know that we have seen anything about the warder bond protecting from compulsion.  Siuan not noticing anything is wrong may be a bit odd though.  Then again, Graendal was the greatest Compulsion user to live and she looked to be using it very cleverly rather than just totally controlling their minds so I dont feel like it was too off for Siuan not to notice.

 

Have we seen any dream-world initiated compulsion before?

[MarkDiLillo]

I dont think so.  I felt that the dream-initiated compulsion was a little bit of a stretch myself.  If it were that easy to do then why wouldn't Graendal have been ruling the world from the dream world already?

[Tollingtoy]

I have a big problem with the Compulsion thing. If it is so easy to do, why didn't the Shadow just Compell everyone in the 1st book and be done with it. It seems a little too neat

[Valley of Death]

because TAR and the real world are closer now than ever before because of the DO. They said earlier in the book that TAR is changing

[dreadlord]

Is it explicitly stated that it was compulsion (or only compulsion) going on?  I can't remember.

 

On using compulsion in the first book, only Ishy/Moridin was free for the most part, and Moiraine was aware of the dangers enough to constantly warn about it.   At the same time, Ishy's goals were a little different at that point.

 

It didn't really strike me as all that odd overall because we never really got a good handle on what the shadow's plan was.  Making the battle go wrong and using it as a tool to show Rand the inevitability of the Light's defeat makes a great deal of sense to me.  As does the discovery showing Rand that despite all the setbacks the average light sider's willingness to keep fighting on being part of the ultimate victory.

[hjustinpace]

The Shadow DID try to influence the characters through their dreams early on--Ishmael visited Rand, Mat, and Perrin. Why didn't they do it more? One, time. Heffalump seems to be spending most of her effort on it. And the Shadow wisely changed its tactics--avoiding the stronger characters in favor of relatively weaker ones in key positions.

 

The Light side characters repeatedly refer to it as Compulsion, but we know they're not infallible. I don't think it was Compulsion.

[esvath]

I think it is both Compulsion and seeding the Great Captains's dream with nightmares, thus making them restless and aggressive, and easier to "agree" with devastating tactics compelled by Graendal. Ituralde's POV about nightmare and his agressive decisions explain this, imo.