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phantasypunk

Two questions about stuff I don't get

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maybe I missed it when these questions were answered, but I am way confused.

 

1) How do Aes Sedai that become damane get over the three oaths (especially not using the power as a weapon). as we saw with teslyn they're still aes sedai, and no oath rod is used to remove it, and yet they're sure as hell killing people. This seems like way to fundamental a plot point to gloss over, but I think I missed it when jordan explained.

 

 

2) what ever happened to the whole know-where-you're-traveling idea. When skimming/traveling were introduced, skimming was when you had no clue and the power just led you, and traveling was when you thoroughly knew what you were doing. In many places this was described as taking "at least a day" to know a location before traveling.

 

HOWEVER, in the last couple books this limitation has just disappeared. Specifically, how the hell did nynaeve travel to land's end in saldea??? Clearly she's never been there. Also, the asha'man traveled to the two rivers to pick up tam and the other archers before rescuing faile---to my knowledge, none of those people had been there either. even if you accept that describing a place is the same as being there, it still doesn't explain nynaeve-saldea.

 

 

I'm way confused. please help.

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Well to the first question Aes Seadai who become damane still face the oaths,we see this with the damane who cannot lie,no matter how the seanchan punish her. I forget the name of the damane but its in a scene Surouth, on a boat.

 

To travel you need to know whereyou ARE to travel, not where your going. That is how Nynaeve travelled, and everone else mentioned by you, however, short didtances can be travelled without knowing the land.

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maybe I missed it when these questions were answered, but I am way confused.

 

1) How do Aes Sedai that become damane get over the three oaths (especially not using the power as a weapon). as we saw with teslyn they're still aes sedai, and no oath rod is used to remove it, and yet they're sure as hell killing people. This seems like way to fundamental a plot point to gloss over, but I think I missed it when jordan explained.

They are used in construction, mining, healing, skylights and other things outside of battle.

 

Also they are denied the chance to gain political power which the Seanchan view as important as their being put to useful work.

2) what ever happened to the whole know-where-you're-traveling idea. When skimming/traveling were introduced, skimming was when you had no clue and the power just led you, and traveling was when you thoroughly knew what you were doing. In many places this was described as taking "at least a day" to know a location before traveling.

 

HOWEVER, in the last couple books this limitation has just disappeared. Specifically, how the hell did nynaeve travel to land's end in saldea??? Clearly she's never been there. Also, the asha'man traveled to the two rivers to pick up tam and the other archers before rescuing faile---to my knowledge, none of those people had been there either. even if you accept that describing a place is the same as being there, it still doesn't explain nynaeve-saldea.

 

 

I'm way confused. please help.

RJ said that Boenin's explination of Traveling and Skimming in KoD was a typo. I think it is supposed to be fixxed in the paperback copy.

 

They do not need to know much about their destination to Travel to a location. And they do not need to know much about where they are when they Skim from a location.

 

Learning the location where a Traveling gateway opens does seem to be new from KoD or maybe CoT.

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The captured AS cannot be used for weapons, the 3 oaths prevent it. The one that Tuon has on her ship is just used for sky lights and other things that don't impinge on the three oaths. There were only 2 AS that were captured in Falme if memory serves me, and those captured in Ebou Dar were released by Mat, so I really don't know where they would have been used in battle.

 

To Travel a AS or AM has to know the ground travelled FROM extremely well, not so where they are traveling to. A very detailed map that gives a fair representation of how the land lays, i.e. hills, rivers, streams, open grassland, etc., will allow a channeler to place a gateway in the general vicinity. A detailed description by Perrin would do nicely. Read the section where the Aiel scouts and Elias describe the ridge near where the Shaido are encamped. Skimming works the opposite way, you need to know the place that you are GOING extremely well, not where you are opening the Gateway. I don't think it is possible to Skim to somewhere you have not physically seen.

 

There is the exception in that a channeler can Travel over short distances without knowing either starting point or ending point. This has been used a few times in the books and was explained by RJ at a book signing or something.

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I just want to address what seemed to be your last unanswered point...

 

as we saw with teslyn they're still aes sedai, and no oath rod is used to remove it, and yet they're sure as hell killing people

 

If you'll recall, when Mat, the Band, and his handful of Deathwatch Guards and Gardeners face the Seanchan forces that are hunting the bounty on Tuon's head, Teslyn can no sooner weave her fireballs than Joline can. They have to wait until they feel threatened. The Seanchan come closer and closer, yet the Aes Sedai can't help the crossbowmen. It isn't until they are nearly overrun by the charging Taraboner lances, that they finally unleash their response. One of them even says something like, "Okay, I feel threatened now," and the other one simply begins to weave.

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i think others have answered this pretty well except for one thing: when you Travel TO a place, you then automatically know it well enough to Travel from it. that is how Nyn Travels from where she leaves Lan to the rest of the borderlands. Also, nyn had been at that manorhouse with rand for more than a day, which is usually the length of time necessary to know a spot well enough to Travel from it.

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Long and short:

 

Anyone who's sworn on an Oath Rod (binder) can not be released from those Oaths except by another rod. Aes Sedai who wear A'dams cannot be used in battle as is stated multiple times in the books.

 

To travel you must: know the location you are traveling from, and have a general idea of where you are going with the more specific knowledge resulting in a more precise gateway placement. The exception is if you are traveling a short distance (Asha'man west of Illian, Rand in Illian, Rand in Caemlyn, etc.), at which point you do not need to know the ground. Generally it comes down to if you can see where you're going then you can travel there without knowing the ground.

 

Skimming requires knowledge of where you're going (Rand from Cairhien to Caemlyn, Egwene from SaS camp to north of Ebou Dar, etc.), but not where you are.

 

Check out the info. at www.encyclopaedia-wot.org

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org:8008/main/true_source/weaves.html#s

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I just wanted to add something here, people have already answered the question, but when you say it has been said several times that it takes at least a day to "know" a place well enough to travel from it;

When Elayne and Nynaeve are using the Bowl of the Winds at the farm, Elayne says something along the lines of that holding Saidar in one spot is the best way to "learn" a place. I took this to mean that if you hold Saidar, it wouldn't take a day; it would be quicker.

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good point, ravenfire. i hadn't remembered that passage, but i took the same thing out of it as you did. it's a day to learn unless you're holding the power then it would be shorter...

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And if you want a time frame of how long it takes whilst holding Saidar (or Saidin for that matter I guess)I don't think it takes very long.

 

The reason Elayne made the gateway and not Nynaeve was that after they came down the hill, Elayne had spent her time standing in one spot holding Saidar while Nynaeve rushed around trying to get everyone organised to flee from the Seanchan. (When she should have just left it to Alise anyway).

 

Surely since there is an imminent attack, they wouldn't have taken long to get ready to leave, so it couldn't have been very long at all for Elayne to have learnt the spot she was standing on; a matter of minutes, not hours.[/i]

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