What do you like.about the Wheel of Time series?

[Ozzie_aiel]

I like how the world is fleshed out. It has a rich history going back over 3000 years and every nation is bought to life with its own customs, fashions, accents and even vendettas.

 

I also enjoy the contradictions. No other series I know of has a hero that is destined to bring ruin to the world and is almost universally feared. The villains often help the hero while those who should be the good guys seek to undermine or destroy him. The whitecloaks, dedicated to the eradication of evil, come across as the bad guys while the Aes Sedai, unable to lie at all, cannot be taken at their word and are mistrusted. It takes a brilliant imagination to come up with these.

[Hagazussa]

The thing I like the most about the Wheel of Time books and which made me fall in love with it is the magick system. I am an occultist and I believe that while of course fictional magick systems are fictional you can learn allot from how the creator of said magick system have put it together, created the metaphysics and paradigm for it, it gives you a look into how another envision magick and that is very exiting. The Wheel of Time magick system is extremely well put together, it is well defined, elegant and downright beautiful in it's simplicity which still manages to house such complexity. The WoT magick system is a perfect example of the Energy model of magick which happens to be my favorite model.

 

The second thing I like is the setting, it is very interesting and it is so well described and described in such detail that it is easy to close your eyes and envision the places, and the cultures. I love to play RPG games and WoT is just perfect for that since it is so well described.

 

I like the cyclical time elements of WoT, I find the idea that time is circular and not a line fascinating, it is a fun idea to have run around in one's head.

 

I love all the Pagan references in Wheel of Time I recommend the books to other Pagans as perfect fiction for inspiration when walking the path.

 

I really like that and have a polyamorus relationship, not many books who are not kinky do this, to find a poly group in a completely normal fantasy book is great news for the poly community things like that helps gain accept for the lifestyle and help normalize it.

 

I really like the taint and the plight the male channelers are in, so sue me I am a Goth I love stories of doomed characters who are in damned if you do damned if you don't type situations and I love a bit of tragedy and drama. Here we have characters who (before saidin get cleansed) had perhaps a decade max of life left and the only ways out was either death, being hunted down and put through a fate worse than death or go insane and destroy everything they loved and become a monster, I just love stories of such doomed characters.

 

I like the Aes Sedai, I enjoy stories of sorcerers and magick which I said further up in my post, in fact I like all the channeler groups.

 

I have a little kinky fascination for sul'dam and damane, yes what is being done to damane is terrible but within the confines of fiction I allow myself to get just a little turned on by it, kinky as I am.

 

I like wolfbrothers that is a very subtle and new way to do werewolves, I also like sniffers, I think that is a cool concept and also Clairalience, or ESP smells have a special place in my heart.

[Wool-headed lummox]

The Wheel of Time magick system is extremely well put together, it is well defined, elegant and downright beautiful in it's simplicity which still manages to house such complexity.

I'm sorry, I've seen people claim this numerous times, and I just don't see how this can possibly be true. WoT magic, assuming you're talking about channelling, is where people think about something and stuff happens. Technically, the power is subdivided into five elements, but many effects are not of an elemental nature and with them, this system becomes a mere technicality. Is there any reason the classical Aes Sedai healing method is made of three powers, and Nynaeve's more power one - of five? Is five better than three? The truth is, there are no rules for how the weaves are made, not even vague or approximate ones, which leaves the author free to select a random number of elements for any given effect that isn't blatantly elemental and pretend there's a complex magic system validating them behind the scenes. It's very telling, that after releasing 12 books, Robert Jordan never bothered to include artwork that depicts an actual channelling weave. So while earth is clearly needed to make earthquakes, fire to make fireballs, and spirit to mess with people's ability to channel, anything beyond this is unconnected to the elemental concept.

 

As for other aspects of channelling, these are completely devoid of any validating mechanic. Talents are something people are simply born with, and something they simply use. Aviendha touches an angreal and instantly knows what it does. Why? Just because. Egwene can enter the World of Dreams without angreal, whereas other channellers cannot. Why? Just because. This is equivalent to X-Men and their mutant powers, and while there's nothing wrong with this kind of power distribution, claiming it's come sort of complex and meticulously planned out magic system is simply not true. It's a system where people wave their hands and things happen.

[Hagazussa]

I'm sorry, I've seen people claim this numerous times, and I just don't see how this can possibly be true. WoT magic, assuming you're talking about channelling, is where people think about something and stuff happens. Technically, the power is subdivided into five elements, but many effects are not of an elemental nature and with them, this system becomes a mere technicality.

 

I have not seen any effect in the books that do not fit one element or a combination of them. Also the WoT magick system, yes channeling we all know it is magick, is not just think about something and it happens, it is an energy system that have rather clearly defined rules for how it works and rather interesting and complex ways it is being used while still having the simplicity of being just a direct energy manipulation system. Well to a certain degree all magick is in a way the practitioner thinking, using their will to change reality, that is the core of it, but the magick system for any given setting details how this is done, and it is the how that is very well detailed and elegantly handled in WoT.

 

Is there any reason the classical Aes Sedai healing method is made of three powers, and Nynaeve's more power one - of five? Is five better than three?

 

Yes because the human body are made up of all five elements, think about it, we breathe air and oxygen is in our blood, so much of our bodies are water, we have allot of mineral in our bodies and we are beings of the earth, and also we produce heat so there we have fire, and then there is the soul for spirit, it makes perfect sense that healing using all five elements should be more powerful, and if you want I can go into more metaphysical details about the classical elements and their connection to the human body. Also remember that Jordan where inspired by Hindu and other Asian philosophy and probably then had at least heard about Asian energy medicine, most of which places all elements, whatever the Western ones or the Chinese ones within the human body. Now as for why modern Aes Sedai healing if you look at even the most basic of element symbolism then air represent the mind, the intellect and water represent the body since so much of us is made up of water. The element of water is also associated with healing and good health in many cultures, and then we have spirit, so the three elements in modern Aes Sedai healing represent the mind, the body and the soul which seams rather logical. Also water can represent blood, and air breath and therefore the two of them are strongly associated with good health. A third connection is that in the WoT books healing is seen as a female art, you have female herb healers, it is more female channelers who are good with healing and so on, and air and water is considered the female elements in the WoT world another thing that makes this elemental combination for healing seam rather logical.

 

The truth is, there are no rules for how the weaves are made, not even vague or approximate ones, which leaves the author free to select a random number of elements for any given effect that isn't blatantly elemental and pretend there's a complex magic system validating them behind the scenes.

 

Have you read the same books I have? WoT have one of the most complex and most strictly adhered to rules for how the magick system work that I have seen, have you heard tot he thrope magic A is magic A? Well you have a prime example of it in the WoT books, you can clearly see that there are in setting rules for how the magick system works and this is followed to the letter. Also have you ever read anything about the elements, you know the real world societies who thought they where the basic building blocks of how the world worked? Everything is elemental you need to get your head out of JRPGs where the only thing that is fire, is actual fire and the only things that is water is actual water and read a bit about the basics. The belief was that the elements where in everything, and that everything was build up out of four, or five elements. Now in WoT this theory is true so to say that something is not elemental is like saying, WtF are you talking about there is no atoms involved in driving a car. All the effects I have seen in WoT fit perfectly with an element or another, or a combination, even when they are not directly a fireball or a splash of water, but sometimes you have to look at the symbolism behind the elements to find the proper connection and that do not make a system less detailed it makes it more so.

 

It's very telling, that after releasing 12 books, Robert Jordan never bothered to include artwork that depicts an actual channelling weave.

 

Ehm...this argument makes no sense, what makes you think a weave can even be represented in a 2D visual medium, we are talking about weaving the very energy that drives the universe and by that changing reality, how did you plan to represent that on paper. Secondly Jordan worked with those who produced that comic and have approved the design for the visual representations of weaves they have made as basically as close as you get to representing them, third Jordan have described weaves in detail, with words, you know the medium he was good at. How do it indicate anything that he choose to represent weaves with words and not drawing them when he was in fact an author?

 

So while earth is clearly needed to make earthquakes, fire to make fireballs, and spirit to mess with people's ability to channel, anything beyond this is unconnected to the elemental concept.

 

This is blatantly wrong. Now go and read up a bit on the metaphysics behind the five Western elements and look at the books again. Now not everything translates over perfectly as Jordan have changed a few things around, but for the most part if you understand the symbolism behind the elements their use to create various effects within the books makes perfect sense.

 

As for other aspects of channelling, these are completely devoid of any validating mechanic. Talents are something people are simply born with, and something they simply use. Aviendha touches an angreal and instantly knows what it does. Why?

 

Perhaps the same reason why my hubby can hear a song once and repeat the notes on his guitar while I could not play twinkle twinkle little star without spending weeks and months learning. In real life people have talents for one thing or another why should not this be true in magick as well?

 

Just because. Egwene can enter the World of Dreams without angreal, whereas other channellers cannot. Why?

 

The same reason why some people in the WoT world can channel and others can not, the same reason why some people have green eyes and others brown, it is a inborn talent, nothing strange about that, that is like saying opera makes no sense Andrea Bocelli can hold his tones all through Nessun Dorma and Joe Smuck can not, it is a natural talent, people have those.

 

This is equivalent to X-Men and their mutant powers, and while there's nothing wrong with this kind of power distribution, claiming it's come sort of complex and meticulously planned out magic system is simply not true. It's a system where people wave their hands and things happen.

 

How is it possible to read that many books and so completely not get it. First off all whatever or not a fictional magick system is something everyone can learn or if it is an inborn trait have nothing to do with whatever or not the system is complex or not. The complexity in WoT lie in the metaphysics behind the system, how it works, how it connects to the world, to the elements, its supernatural nature and also the detail that have gone into the rules for how it is used, whatever or not it is a gift given at birth or something someone learns with hard work is completely besides the point.

[Wool-headed lummox]

 

I have not seen any effect in the books that do not fit one element or a combination of them

A gateway is opened with Spirit and Fire. Why these two particular elements and not others? Deathgates, which are gateways that spontaneously propel themselves across a distance, are created with Spirit, Fire, and Earth. Why is Earth added to the weave, does it have something to do with distance? However, when Moiraine weaves the Finder, which allows her to sense the boys over a great distance, she does it with Spirit and not Earth. The ward against eavesdropping is created with Fire, Air, and a trace of Water. Why? Arrows of Fire are created with Fire and Earth. Why not just Fire? Compulsion uses all five elements. Why all five and not four or three? Rand makes a bridge with Air and Fire. Why Fire and not Earth? 

 

More weaves here: http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/main/true_source/weaves.html#ca

 

See, these elements (among others) are those used by a great deal of philosophical and mythological systems, like Ancient Greek, Babylonian, Buddhist, Hindu, etc. Of course, each of these systems uses them in its own way, so in the end each of the elements has a vast pool of (often vague or contradictory) attributes, some of which can be scavenged and used to justify a given situation. But this isn't a very intelligent approach. The problem with WoT, is that lacks its own rules for how the elements can and cannot be used and combined within the scope of the series. Simply put, Earth in WoT doesn't stand for any particular set of thematically-joined attributes, such as strength, durability, protection, distance, nature - it stands for whatever the author felt like doing at the moment. With this lackluster system in place, the most you can do with any given element is trace its immediate real-life manifestation. A fireball is certain to be created with Fire, that much is guaranteed. But not much else.

 

Yes because the human body are made up of all five elements, think about it, we breathe air and oxygen is in our blood, so much of our bodies are water, we have allot of mineral in our bodies and we are beings of the earth, and also we produce heat so there we have fire, and then there is the soul for spirit, it makes perfect sense that healing using all five elements should be more powerful, and if you want I can go into more metaphysical details about the classical elements and their connection to the human body

Now as for why modern Aes Sedai healing if you look at even the most basic of element symbolism then air represent the mind, the intellect and water represent the body since so much of us is made up of water

This is all well and good, but you're using one standard of symbolism for standard Healing and a different standard for Nynaeve's Super-Healing. With Super-Healing, you take the element's closest real-life manifestation (water is blood, air is breath) and with standard Healing you say that water is the body and air is the mind. You've perfectly illustrated the lack of consistency and precision in how the elements are used in WoT. Remember, we're talking about two Healing weaves which have the same effect and purpose, there shouldn't be any radical difference in how the elements are used. You've also made the error of equating the three powers of standard Healing with body-mind-soul. Healing affects neither the mind, nor the soul - it only heals corporeal ailments, which means your explanation is not applicable. Not to mention the fact that the human body is not composed of all five elements - the soul is not part of the body, it lives within the body but is separate from it, and as I said healing does not affect the soul at all - Nynaeve had to invent separate weaves to heal Compulsion, madness, and severing, which are undoubtedly ailments of the mind+soul rather than the body. By your logic, super-healing should only include four elements, and standard healing shouldn't work at all because it lacks the Earth element which stands for "minerals".

 

Ehm...this argument makes no sense, what makes you think a weave can even be represented in a 2D visual medium, we are talking about weaving the very energy that drives the universe and by that changing reality, how did you plan to represent that on paper. Secondly Jordan worked with those who produced that comic and have approved the design for the visual representations of weaves they have made as basically as close as you get to representing them, third Jordan have described weaves in detail, with words, you know the medium he was good at. How do it indicate anything that he choose to represent weaves with words and not drawing them when he was in fact an author?

So in the first part of your post you say weaves cannot be represented in a 2D visual medium (why the hell not?) and in the second part you say that RJ worked with those who represented weaves in a 2D visual medium. That's self-contradictory. I've read the New Spring comic, and I have to say, the weaves there look like unrecognizable shapeless masses. The fact that Rj never bothered to depict a channelling weave indicates that he, in all likelihood, lacked a clear understanding of how channelling looks and works in-universe, and didn't put much effort into working out its rules.

 

Perhaps the same reason why my hubby can hear a song once and repeat the notes on his guitar

Are you telling me that your hubby could play songs on his guitar since the first moment he ever touched it? That he didn't spend months working out the basic technique? That he can instantaneously play a musical instrument he's never seen before because he was born with a musical talent? Because that's how most Talents work in WoT. Elaida never trained her Foretelling ability to be a better prophet, she didn't need meditate to clear her mind of emotions and distractions, she simply gets an SMS from the Pattern at random times when she least expects it. Why? Just because. The idea that someone as insane and unrestrained as Elaida can glance into the future and see the objective truth is, in itself, laughable, and proves that not only does a Talent generally not require any amount of training or preparation in the WoT universe, it's also completely unconnected to one's personality and the kind of life they lead. Aviendha never had to train her Talent either, she just touched an angreal and BAM - instant knowledge of how it works. And if the angreal is too complicated (like the Pillars), she never makes any effort to concentrate, use her Talent consciously, and work it out the mystery in the end, because there's nothing to work with, her ability is completely passive and utilitarian. At least Aviendha has the option of touching or not touching an angreal, anyone who can Foretell is literally a walking mobile phone that can receive voicemail from the Pattern at any given moment of their life.

 

that is like saying opera makes no sense Andrea Bocelli can hold his tones all through Nessun Dorma and Joe Smuck can not, it is a natural talent, people have those

No, this isn't true. You don't wake up one day and suddenly start singing with the voice of an opera primadonna, you have to devote years to discovering and unlocking your talent before it starts to pay off. Andrea Bocelli put a lot of effort into mastering a great variety of musical elements. As a rule, channellers put no effort into mastering their Talent in WoT. Again, I'm talking about Talents, not active channelling here.

[Hagazussa]

A gateway is opened with Spirit and Fire. Why these two particular elements and not others?

 

Spirit because the weave have a purely spiritual metaphysical component and fire at least for the men because it burn a hole between two points in place.

 

Deathgates, which are gateways that spontaneously propel themselves across a distance, are created with Spirit, Fire, and Earth. Why is Earth added to the weave, does it have something to do with distance?

 

Yes it do, they propel themselves along the ground which would indicate a need for earth mixed into it, probably if the weave was sent along the surface of a lake water would be used instead.

 

However, when Moiraine weaves the Finder, which allows her to sense the boys over a great distance, she does it with Spirit and not Earth.

 

This is pure spirit, it creates a connection between her and the boys on a purely metaphysical level.

 

The ward against eavesdropping is created with Fire, Air, and a trace of Water. Why?

 

What is sound? No I am not asking you from a modern perspective but from the perspective of early renaissance level society, air is logical, sound travel on the air, but in a society who have no idea of the various forms of forces and physics but who see the world according to the classical elements fire would be a part of sound, as for water I assume it would be the connection to the human body of the speaker.

 

Arrows of Fire are created with Fire and Earth. Why not just Fire?

 

Allot of the fire spells so to speak have earth in them, that represent the process of the fire, the fuel for the magickal flame, the chemical processes that fire is to a society that do not understand chemistry.

 

Compulsion uses all five elements. Why all five and not four or three?

 

All elements are present in the human mind. The water of deep emotion, the fire of passion, the sharp air of intellect, the reason of earth and the spiritual side represented by spirit. The human mind is a microcosms to the macrocosms of the world itself.

 

Rand makes a bridge with Air and Fire. Why Fire and not Earth?

 

Air is very logical it makes the air hard, fire well we have seen fire be used as a way to represent strength so that may be the reason, remember there is not only one way to do things, allot depend on the channeler him or herself and how they figure out how to do it, and there is nothing illogical with having fire included in such a weave.

 

See, these elements (among others) are those used by a great deal of philosophical and mythological systems, like Ancient Greek, Babylonian, Buddhist, Hindu, etc. Of course, each of these systems uses them in its own way, so in the end each of the elements has a vast pool of (often vague or contradictory) attributes, some of which can be scavenged and used to justify a given situation. But this isn't a very intelligent approach.

 

Ah so drawing on mythology is not a very intelligent approach? What then would you in your wast intellect suggest a author use. Now I think it is cool to see magick systems that bases itself on nothing in real world mythology and which is only a construct of the author's mind, that often creates very unique systems, however basing such systems on existing concepts and mythology give them a grater feeling of connection to reality, it makes them recognizable and is in fact a very good way to construct a fictional magick system, especially when the ground idea for the system is a pure energy model one.

 

The problem with WoT, is that lacks its own rules for how the elements can and cannot be used and combined within the scope of the series. Simply put, Earth in WoT doesn't stand for any particular set of thematically-joined attributes, such as strength, durability, protection, distance, nature - it stands for whatever the author felt like doing at the moment. With this lackluster system in place, the most you can do with any given element is trace its immediate real-life manifestation. A fireball is certain to be created with Fire, that much is guaranteed. But not much else.

 

You are flat out wrong here. WoT have a complex system for what each element do, and no it is not exactly the same as what the elements represents in any real life system, because it is fiction, just like channeling in WoT have some very clear connections to Eastern energy systems, especially the Yogic ones but not completely because it is fiction, Jordan have taken inspiration from a ton of different sources and woken it together into a consistent whole who are different than any of those sources but who do have clearly defined rules and attributes withing the books setting.

 

This is all well and good, but you're using one standard of symbolism for standard Healing and a different standard for Nynaeve's Super-Healing.

 

Ehem...no I am not actually.

 

With Super-Healing, you take the element's closest real-life manifestation (water is blood, air is breath) and with standard Healing you say that water is the body and air is the mind. You've perfectly illustrated the lack of consistency and precision in how the elements are used in WoT.

 

No but I do think I managed to perfectly illustrate why you are having a problem with understanding WoT's magick system when you completely managed to misunderstand my fairly simple one paragraph's explanation above.

 

Remember, we're talking about two Healing weaves which have the same effect and purpose, there shouldn't be any radical difference in how the elements are used.

 

They do not have the same effect nor the same purpose, they both heal you but in radically different ways, why is this so hard for you to understand?

 

You've also made the error of equating the three powers of standard Healing with body-mind-soul. Healing affects neither the mind, nor the soul - it only heals corporeal ailments, which means your explanation is not applicable.

 

Again you completely do not get it, no normal healing do not affect the mind, nor the soul but the mind and the soul affect the body so elements representing them have to be included in the weave, remember if a weave even slightly touches the domain of a given element that element must be included for the weave to function properly.

 

Not to mention the fact that the human body is not composed of all five elements - the soul is not part of the body, it lives within the body but is separate from it, and as I said healing does not affect the soul at all - Nynaeve had to invent separate weaves to heal Compulsion, madness, and severing, which are undoubtedly ailments of the mind+soul rather than the body. By your logic, super-healing should only include four elements, and standard healing shouldn't work at all because it lacks the Earth element which stands for "minerals".

 

Normal healing have weaknesses because it do not include all elements so no inconsistency there. Also the soul is a part of a person's being, and that being is hosed in their body so yes the soul is a part of the body, and what's more it affects the body, which is why spirit have to be included.

 

So in the first part of your post you say weaves cannot be represented in a 2D visual medium (why the hell not?) and in the second part you say that RJ worked with those who represented weaves in a 2D visual medium. That's self-contradictory.

 

Go back and read what I said one more time perhaps you will understand it then. I said that there is a good chance weaves can not be represented properly in a 2D medium, then I said that Jordan said the comics gave a decent representation, that is not a perfect representation but perhaps as good as it get, there is no contradiction there. It is like if I say, sitting in this chair is not good for your back, but if you put a pillow at you lower back it will be better and you say that is a contradiction, no it is not. Also why the weaves can not be properly represented in a 2D medium, well they are threads woven from the energy that drives time used to change reality and cause magickal effects, you do not think that might not have a shape and a form that is to alien to draw on a piece of paper. It is like if I say, ehrm I can not fit a car into your lunch box there is no room and you say why the hell not.

 

I've read the New Spring comic, and I have to say, the weaves there look like unrecognizable shapeless masses.

 

Really, have you considered getting glasses? Whatever or not they are good representations of weaves is one thing, but if all you see is shapeless masses then I do think there might be something wrong with your vision for there are lines and hoops and patterns.

 

The fact that Rj never bothered to depict a channelling weave indicates that he, in all likelihood, lacked a clear understanding of how channelling looks and works in-universe, and didn't put much effort into working out its rules.

 

Right so if an author creates something that can not be represented in a 2D medium, or if he Gods forbid is not that good at drawing then that is proof that he have not put much effort into working out the rules for that thing...ehm...right, well it makes as much sense as what else you have been saying I guess, take that as you will.

 

Are you telling me that your hubby could play songs on his guitar since the first moment he ever touched it? That he didn't spend months working out the basic technique? That he can instantaneously play a musical instrument he's never seen before because he was born with a musical talent?

 

Off course not, he had to learn to use the tool to produce the music and you point being?

 

Because that's how most Talents work in WoT. Elaida never trained her Foretelling ability to be a better prophet, she didn't need meditate to clear her mind of emotions and distractions, she simply gets an SMS from the Pattern at random times when she least expects it. Why? Just because.

 

Ehm...right you know I have gray green eyes, I am born with them, it just happened. I have a good singing voice, I was born with it, Elaida's foretelling ability is like that, a in born talent like some have green eyes and some have brown, it is ESP in essence. Now some talents you need to learn how to use a tool, like learning to use a musical instrument, but for some it is something that you just start doing naturally, why is this a concept that piss you off so much, it is like saying that about anything is bad because a character is naturally good at something, how do this reflect on the WoT magick system in any way, shape or form?

 

The idea that someone as insane and unrestrained as Elaida can glance into the future and see the objective truth is, in itself, laughable, and proves that not only does a Talent generally not require any amount of training or preparation in the WoT universe, it's also completely unconnected to one's personality and the kind of life they lead.

 

Well Elaida is not insane but other than that yeah some talents are just there, it do not matter if you are a good person or not, or if you are smart or not you just have them, it is based on the randomness at birth just like an asshole can be completely healthy and a saint born with a weak heart, and again your point being? Most series books or otherwise that have ESP have it as something gained through the randomness of birth and often without the character's own control, what do this have to do with the quality of the magick system? Are you saying a magick system can not be good unless every aspect of it are attained through personal effort on the characters?

 

Aviendha never had to train her Talent either, she just touched an angreal and BAM - instant knowledge of how it works. And if the angreal is too complicated (like the Pillars), she never makes any effort to concentrate, use her Talent consciously, and work it out the mystery in the end, because there's nothing to work with, her ability is completely passive and utilitarian.

 

Yes...and your point being? WoT's setting allow for characters who have talents, Power related or not which is just a part of them and function on automatic or when the Wheel wants them to, what is the problem?

 

At least Aviendha has the option of touching or not touching an angreal, anyone who can Foretell is literally a walking mobile phone that can receive voicemail from the Pattern at any given moment of their life.

 

Yes like most characters with ESP or oracular abilities in most of science fiction, fantasy and horror, and also how many have believed it to work in the real world, again what is the problem?

 

No, this isn't true. You don't wake up one day and suddenly start singing with the voice of an opera primadonna, you have to devote years to discovering and unlocking your talent before it starts to pay off. Andrea Bocelli put a lot of effort into mastering a great variety of musical elements. As a rule, channellers put no effort into mastering their Talent in WoT. Again, I'm talking about Talents, not active channelling here.

 

Yes you need to train your voice but the singing talent have to be there in the first place for there to be anything to train. Now again yes some talents in WoT just develop and then are there either functioning when the character need them or at random, what do this have to do with whatever or not the magick system in WoT is well developed and complex?

 

Now if you want to continue this debate I suggest we move it to a separate thread as this is hijacking Ozzie's thread which is to be about listing what you like about WoT and which was probably not meant to house a debate on the quality of the WoT magick system. If you wish to create a new thread I will be happy to continue this debate with you, but I have now spent two posts off topic and do not intend to insult the thread starter any further by continuing this debate in this thread, but will rather let that get back to the topic it was intended for.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Yes, I agree. Let's stick to the topic at hand, any further derailment shall be removed. 

 

On topic: One of the first things that interested me about the WoT was the concept of the Taint. 

 

From Rand to the Asha'man to the cleansing, it has been something that I have enjoyed reading about. 

[John Everyman]

Yes, I agree. Let's stick to the topic at hand, any further derailment shall be removed. 

 

On topic: One of the first things that interested me about the WoT was the concept of the Taint. 

 

From Rand to the Asha'man to the cleansing, it has been something that I have enjoyed reading about. 

 

I'll echo this.  One of the great appeals for me was having the main character, Rand, completely alone in the world.  Doomed to go mad, burdened with a great power that he had no idea how to control.  I think it's why The Shadow Rising is probably my favorite in the series; Rand's at his most powerful and dangerous there without knowing what he's doing (Elayne and Egwene attempting to teach him is one of my favorite scenes in the books, and Rand handling Callandor was fantastic; I got the sense that Rand was almost a walking bomb). 

 

That's why my reaction to the Asha'man was, and continues to be mixed.  My original assumption was that the taint also effected the number of men who could channel.  I assumed that all but the most powerful male channelers, people like Rand and Logain, would die.  Now that there's so many male channelers, Rand does feel a bit less special.  Overall, I've gotten used to it, as I also really love the number of factions in WOT, and the Asha'man are certainly an interesting one. 

[Jani Van Landschoot]

The one thing that fascinates me most is one of an advanced society imploding, with events repeating itself 3000 years later in a less sophisticated, less advanced era, with hardly any physical or anecdotal evidence on that Age of Legends, save for some prophecies/relics/architectural wonders. 

The entire storyline of some of the Age of Legend's most brilliant minds in their specific field of study being corrupted by the Shadow, culminating in a clash and the sealing of the Bore has got me fascinated. 

 

Oh how I yearn for one or more books on those events.

[mogi67]

"one long adventure, a whole lifetime of it"

 

that one line in the first couple chapters of TEOTW really hits home every time I re-read the book. It's what the whole series is about for me: running about and travelling, having adventures and seeing new things, getting into trouble and escaping with your hide. I love that. There are so many things about the Wheel of Time that I love but just the central concept of three farmboys going out and experiencing the world really resonates with me.