Thisguy's Topic on Brandon's Work

[Clouded]

A perfect example:

 

Read the Avi section of the prologue. Notice how she refers to Rand by his first name to the Wise Ones. Now go back through all the 1000's of pages and find even ONE instance of where she calls Rand by his first and only his first name in the entire book. There is only one instance ever that I can think of and it was intentionally written that way to show the significance of the scene (Veins of Gold chapter where Avi and the girls bond Rand). Now suddenly Avi is just referring to him as Rand to the Wise Ones in the last book. This is really an unforgivable mistake and shows a flat out lack of effort to even attempt to get the voice/view of the Aiel and Avi correct. It is a significant cultural difference between the Aiel and a character point of Avi to not use only first names when addressing people they are not extremely close with. This isn't just something a fan observed that is implied in the series. This was specifically mentioned in the books and entire chapters have touched on Avi's difficulty in referring to Elayne by just her first name after they became sisters.

 

I actually don't have a problem with this. I did at one point, when I first saw Aviendha do this in TGS. I was as outraged as you. But on my reread, I caught more evidence that Avi would begin to use just Rand's first name.

 

From Avi's POV, pre Bonding.

"I am a fool, Elayne." Even with her, using no more of her name made Aviendha feel uneasy; when they were first-sisters, when they were sister-wives, it would be easier.

 

This sets the precedent that using the first name is a matter of closeness with someone.

 

 

Then in the bonding session, we see her use his first name.

"My heart is in your hands, Rand," Aviendha said, treating his name like something rare and precious. "If I can convince my first-sister, we will make a bridal wreath for you."

 

 

Then, later, post bonding, from Elayne's we see Elayne make an observation about Avi.

"No one can remember all of that, Elayne, only bits and pieces. I knew I would love Rand al'Thor ..." she was still uncomfortable sometimes about using just his first name in front of others, "and that I would find sister-wives."

 

After this, we don't see Aviendha use Rand's full name. It just so happens that RJ only writes one more book (LOC), and then BS takes over.

 

In summary, Aviendha's bond with Rand has made her feel close enough to Rand to start using his first name. She is slow to start, but she does it more over time. It starts in the bonding session, and continues throughout the rest of the series.

[Deadsy]

Most of the bashing I've seen is stuff that generally bothers people. It may come off as bashing to you, but it seems like legitimate criticism to me. Many times, what BS writes can be jarring and distracts the reader from the story.

 

It's this, for me. I got kicked out of the story at least three times in the prologue, and contrary to what people accuse the "complainers" of, I was not looking for things to gripe about.

 

And I really hate when people talk about how much time Brandon gave to this and how great it was of him to put his own books on hold. Wake up, please. A) he's getting paid and B) his career may have been as successful without WoT... 30 years from now. MAY have. It launched his career. He has been more than paid back for his writing in WoT. Without WoT, Tor might have never been willing to release Way of Kings. He is in no way immune to criticism because of "how much he's done for us."

 

I don't agree that he is solely to blame though. Look at the scenes with Nynaeve in the prologue. I don't have it in front of me because I'm on my phone but she has two quotes in a row where she says "Honestly, bla bla bla" and imp that should be changed in editing. It jarred me to read it twice but maybe that's because it's weird in the first place for Nynaeve to say "honestly" even once. Now I'm about ready to go on a tangent about how Brandon's way of making Aes Sedai look smart is to have them say "Curious.". I think that's what annoys me most abouy Brandon's writing. He re-uses words over and over. It makes certain characters look like cookie cutter versions of others. It's like he was handed half a dictionary and told he couldn't use the other half.

 

Another thing in that same bit is that Nynaeve greets Sleete using his name. Then one line later we get something like "bla bla bla," Nynaeve said to the worder--Sleete--. He'd already been introduced. It needed to be edited.

[MarkDiLillo]

Ya, Clouded, you can make a case for that definitely. I just don't get the impression that was where Brandon was going with things when he wrote Avi using Rand's first name. If he had considered all of that then he would have wrote a line in similar to the Elayne line about how she was uncomfortable still using his first name, etc.

 

Keep in mind that Avi had not spent significant time around Rand since the bonding and that was the ONLY time that we see her refer to him by first name even to his face. Suddenly in the blink of an eye she begins using his first name around others now. It just seems like a very quick transition that reeks of an error in writing to me. I could be wrong...but either way that wasnt the point I was making above with this example. Or maybe it was? Given other errors similar to this we are now in a position where we cannot even tell if this was intentional or not. And that sucks!

[thisguy]

She uses Rand's first name? So what? They've had sex and are bonded? Mat never wanted to settle down but as soon as he meets Tuon he just thinks of her as his wife and stops looking around as much. He doesn't fight his destiny - which he did through several books.

 

That's a huge character change. Do you have a problem with that?

[Deadsy]

She uses Rand's first name? So what? They've had sex and are bonded? Mat never wanted to settle down but as soon as he meets Tuon he just thinks of her as his wife and stops looking around as much. He doesn't fight his destiny - which he did through several books.

 

That's a huge character change. Do you have a problem with that?

 

What the hell do you mean, so what? It's worth discussing if it's inaccurate

[Suttree]

I think when you compare the reviews for the the last two WoT books to the 'middle' WoT books you will find that most fans aren't bothered by this and are in fact, very happy with Sanderson's work.

 

Initially happy as there was a good deal of fan and plot gratification in getting to see things wrapped up. You have to keep in mind that it has as much to do with where we are in the story arc as anything. The set up books are done and story lines are wrapping up. The problem being once that initial glow wears off TGS and ToM are so wildly inconsistent. The combination of the rushed process/ writing being unpolished and blunt has left us with two installments with close to zero rereadability. Further the issues which Team Jordan have admitted exist really jjump off the page in many places.

 

When comparing lumping together the "middle books" is a gross overstatement. The one you could realistically make an argument for is CoT but again that is more of a function of mistakes in how Jordan chose to handle that specific book and where we were in the series. If you say fans like those two because they get to see the plot advanced I can understand what you mean. When comparing the quality of writing however and how the books will be viewed over the long term you dot have much of a case. They quite simply don't hold up under careful scrutiny.

[Clouded]

She uses Rand's first name? So what? They've had sex and are bonded? Mat never wanted to settle down but as soon as he meets Tuon he just thinks of her as his wife and stops looking around as much. He doesn't fight his destiny - which he did through several books.

 

That's a huge character change. Do you have a problem with that?

 

The problem is, that for 4 books, she called him Rand al'Thor. It is part of her culture to call him by his full name. In fact, it is a HUGE step in their relationship for her to begin calling him Rand. This is very jarring.

 

Mat's change was over the course of 2 books. We saw it happen, so the change is not as jarring.

 

Hell, his realization that he must accept the pattern started after he created the band. We saw begin to step into the role of a leader, and begin to see some of the perks of responsibility.

[thisguy]

She uses Rand's first name? So what? They've had sex and are bonded? Mat never wanted to settle down but as soon as he meets Tuon he just thinks of her as his wife and stops looking around as much. He doesn't fight his destiny - which he did through several books.

 

That's a huge character change. Do you have a problem with that?

 

What the hell do you mean, so what? It's worth discussing if it's inaccurate

What I mean is - so what. All of the characters change throughout the books. There's good reason for Aviendha to become more familiar with Rand and call him by his first name only. What's the big deal?

[thisguy]

She uses Rand's first name? So what? They've had sex and are bonded? Mat never wanted to settle down but as soon as he meets Tuon he just thinks of her as his wife and stops looking around as much. He doesn't fight his destiny - which he did through several books.

 

That's a huge character change. Do you have a problem with that?

 

The problem is, that for 4 books, she called him Rand al'Thor. It is part of her culture to call him by his full name. In fact, it is a HUGE step in their relationship for her to begin calling him Rand. This is very jarring.

 

Mat's change was over the course of 2 books. We saw it happen, so the change is not as jarring.

 

Hell, his realization that he must accept the pattern started after he created the band. We saw begin to step into the role of a leader, and begin to see some of the perks of responsibility.

 

There's no way to slowly change from calling him Rand Al'Thor to Rand. We've seen their relationship progress throughout the books and they're bonded now and have even spoken about getting married. The WO's at Caemlyn told her she should learn Wetlander ways for her people and that it's ok for her to dress in silks. She's changed.

[TristanWebb]

It isn't actually part of the culture, it is just that Aiel don't have surnames so to her Rand al'Thor is just like Aviendah. If she managed to get in her head while hanging out with Elayne that surnames are equivalent to clan/sept/society it is entirely possible that she would drop back to just using first names.

[MarkDiLillo]

What I mean is - so what. All of the characters change throughout the books. There's good reason for Aviendha to become more familiar with Rand and call him by his first name only. What's the big deal?

 

The big deal is that it would only take one line in the entire book to confirm that she changed and feels more comfortable with calling Rand by his first name only now and that line just isn't there. Why isnt it there? Why isn't there a line that says she feels more comfortable with referring to him as Rand in front of others now? Why not put that in when there are plenty of lines to the contrary showing how she is very uncomfortable referring to him by his first name. The lack of this simple line in the entire writing means there is no transition and suddenly it is extremely out of character and jarring. It doesn't matter that BS wrote this, if RJ had wrote it like this it would also have jarred us.

 

If it wasn't a mistake then a single sentence could have completely corrected the entire thing and it would become a seamless part of the story. That sentence wasn't there and that is why this irritates people.

[Clouded]

I think when you compare the reviews for the the last two WoT books to the 'middle' WoT books you will find that most fans aren't bothered by this and are in fact, very happy with Sanderson's work.

 

Ehh I think the comparing reviews of the books is a false measuring stick. The main problem people have with the middle books is that the plot slows down greatly. The plotlines are not directed toward TG, but towards little sub plots that people don't care about.

 

Then, in BS's books the plot lines pick up speed, and everything is headed towards TG. This is a huge joy to many readers because we FINALLY see some advancement.

[MarkDiLillo]

The big difference IMO is the type of reader. The reader who plows through books and considers WoT just one of the several series they're going to read this year will likely not have a problem with the last three books. They might notice some parts that are off but they simply shrug it off because a new author is writing and finishing the whole thing. These readers don't read the books for the characters, they read the books for the plot and the story. Most of the die hard fans read the books because they enjoy the characters, the plot, and the world. The last few books muck 2 of the 3 up pretty badly and so it really hurts things in our eyes. But if you're just someone who wants to see how the series ends and move on to another series you probably won't notice much nor care about the issues you do notice because the only thing you're focused on is getting to finish the story. A lot of people are like this and it's not really bad. The rest of us actually look at WoT as a great work of art and it sucks to watch it be finished by an amateur who doesn't seem to care very much about the quality of his work.

[PaulChauvet]

I don't fault anyone for feeling the way they do about Sanderson's work. I definitely see the issues that you're looking at.

 

It is just my opinion that the feeling that the books have had these major problems is not held by a large percentage of readers. I feel those that aren't heavy forum readers/commenters/etc won't be likely to have the same complaints.

 

As to my comment on 'middle books', I know a lot of people who just gave up after books 7/8/9/10. I was only able to get some people back into the series by getting them to read summaries of those books and starting again by reading Knife of Dreams (Jordan's best book in my opinion since the Shadow Rising).

[capuga]

What I mean is - so what. All of the characters change throughout the books. There's good reason for Aviendha to become more familiar with Rand and call him by his first name only. What's the big deal?

 

The big deal is that it would only take one line in the entire book to confirm that she changed and feels more comfortable with calling Rand by his first name only now and that line just isn't there. Why isnt it there? Why isn't there a line that says she feels more comfortable with referring to him as Rand in front of others now? Why not put that in when there are plenty of lines to the contrary showing how she is very uncomfortable referring to him by his first name. The lack of this simple line in the entire writing means there is no transition and suddenly it is extremely out of character and jarring. It doesn't matter that BS wrote this, if RJ had wrote it like this it would also have jarred us.

 

If it wasn't a mistake then a single sentence could have completely corrected the entire thing and it would become a seamless part of the story. That sentence wasn't there and that is why this irritates people.

 

And I think it's just silly to let something like this effect your enjoyment of the book. Aviendha says "Rand" and not "Rand al'Thor"? This book must be garbage!! Really? It's the same with people complaining about Mat saying bloody ashes. Would it have been hard for BS or Team Jordan to change that to blood and ashes? No. But, seriously, that's actually gonna to be a problem when reading the book? Those kinds of things need to be let go and not obsessed over.

[capuga]

I think when you compare the reviews for the the last two WoT books to the 'middle' WoT books you will find that most fans aren't bothered by this and are in fact, very happy with Sanderson's work.

 

Initially happy as there was a good deal of fan and plot gratification in getting to see things wrapped up. You have to keep in mind that it has as much to do with where we are in the story arc as anything. The set up books are done and story lines are wrapping up. The problem being once that initial glow wears off TGS and ToM are so wildly inconsistent. The combination of the rushed process/ writing being unpolished and blunt has left us with two installments with close to zero rereadability. Further the issues which Team Jordan have admitted exist really jjump off the page in many places.

 

When comparing lumping together the "middle books" is a gross overstatement. The one you could realistically make an argument for is CoT but again that is more of a function of mistakes in how Jordan chose to handle that specific book and where we were in the series. If you say fans like those two because they get to see the plot advanced I can understand what you mean. When comparing the quality of writing however and how the books will be viewed over the long term you dot have much of a case. They quite simply don't hold up under careful scrutiny.

 

And here is exactly what I'm talking about. People can't have enjoyed the books simply because they were well done. It was only for plot gratification. And if you think otherwise you obviously aren't smart enough to understand the flaws in the terrible writing. You don't just have a different opinion than me. You are actually wrong and BS's work is crap and rushed and he doesn't care about the product he's putting out. History will confirm my obviously correct assessment.

 

And I'll see this reply every single time someone posts something positive about BS's books.

 

Gah, should have left when I planned to. Off to re-read the series in anticipation of the new book. I need to replace the current bad WoT taste in my mouth I have from these forums with something enjoyable.

[thisguy]

What I mean is - so what. All of the characters change throughout the books. There's good reason for Aviendha to become more familiar with Rand and call him by his first name only. What's the big deal?

 

The big deal is that it would only take one line in the entire book to confirm that she changed and feels more comfortable with calling Rand by his first name only now and that line just isn't there. Why isnt it there? Why isn't there a line that says she feels more comfortable with referring to him as Rand in front of others now? Why not put that in when there are plenty of lines to the contrary showing how she is very uncomfortable referring to him by his first name. The lack of this simple line in the entire writing means there is no transition and suddenly it is extremely out of character and jarring. It doesn't matter that BS wrote this, if RJ had wrote it like this it would also have jarred us.

 

If it wasn't a mistake then a single sentence could have completely corrected the entire thing and it would become a seamless part of the story. That sentence wasn't there and that is why this irritates people.

 

I see what you mean. The details can make a story.

[thisguy]

I don't fault anyone for feeling the way they do about Sanderson's work. I definitely see the issues that you're looking at.

 

It is just my opinion that the feeling that the books have had these major problems is not held by a large percentage of readers. I feel those that aren't heavy forum readers/commenters/etc won't be likely to have the same complaints.

 

As to my comment on 'middle books', I know a lot of people who just gave up after books 7/8/9/10. I was only able to get some people back into the series by getting them to read summaries of those books and starting again by reading Knife of Dreams (Jordan's best book in my opinion since the Shadow Rising).

I forget if it was book 8 or 9 (I think 9) but it was one of my favorites - with the whole Far Madding story. 10 - I can see why a lot of people would have quit reading through after CoT.

[Clouded]

What I mean is - so what. All of the characters change throughout the books. There's good reason for Aviendha to become more familiar with Rand and call him by his first name only. What's the big deal?

 

The big deal is that it would only take one line in the entire book to confirm that she changed and feels more comfortable with calling Rand by his first name only now and that line just isn't there. Why isnt it there? Why isn't there a line that says she feels more comfortable with referring to him as Rand in front of others now? Why not put that in when there are plenty of lines to the contrary showing how she is very uncomfortable referring to him by his first name. The lack of this simple line in the entire writing means there is no transition and suddenly it is extremely out of character and jarring. It doesn't matter that BS wrote this, if RJ had wrote it like this it would also have jarred us.

 

If it wasn't a mistake then a single sentence could have completely corrected the entire thing and it would become a seamless part of the story. That sentence wasn't there and that is why this irritates people.

 

And I think it's just silly to let something like this effect your enjoyment of the book. Aviendha says "Rand" and not "Rand al'Thor"? This book must be garbage!! Really? It's the same with people complaining about Mat saying bloody ashes. Would it have been hard for BS or Team Jordan to change that to blood and ashes? No. But, seriously, that's actually gonna to be a problem when reading the book? Those kinds of things need to be let go and not obsessed over.

 

I think this is the perfect example of people who don't understand the criticism. Some people have read these books, over and over. They've caught the little details, like Aviendha calling Rand by his full name. They understand why a character does what he/she does. If there is one thing you could say about RJ and these books, it is that he was consistent in his little details. He had a reason and explanation for everything. That is what many people like about the WoT world, is that it is so fully developed.

 

So, when BS can misinterpret a detail, or writes an inconsistency, it is confusing and annoying. In a series that went 10 books with few inconsistencies, the close readers are going to be bothered when the rules of the world change.

 

 

I think this is where the difference between the critics and non critics comes from. The critics are the close readers, who expect the rules to be followed. The non critics appreciate the plot movement, and are willing to accept the missed details or do not notice them.

 

EDIT: Please keep in mind, I've got nothing against people who read for the plot. That's how I read the books the first 2 or 3 times. Just, over time, I caught more details, and found I loved finding these gems. Having them violated in ignorance is what can bother me about BS's writing.

[thisguy]

What I mean is - so what. All of the characters change throughout the books. There's good reason for Aviendha to become more familiar with Rand and call him by his first name only. What's the big deal?

 

The big deal is that it would only take one line in the entire book to confirm that she changed and feels more comfortable with calling Rand by his first name only now and that line just isn't there. Why isnt it there? Why isn't there a line that says she feels more comfortable with referring to him as Rand in front of others now? Why not put that in when there are plenty of lines to the contrary showing how she is very uncomfortable referring to him by his first name. The lack of this simple line in the entire writing means there is no transition and suddenly it is extremely out of character and jarring. It doesn't matter that BS wrote this, if RJ had wrote it like this it would also have jarred us.

 

If it wasn't a mistake then a single sentence could have completely corrected the entire thing and it would become a seamless part of the story. That sentence wasn't there and that is why this irritates people.

 

And I think it's just silly to let something like this effect your enjoyment of the book. Aviendha says "Rand" and not "Rand al'Thor"? This book must be garbage!! Really? It's the same with people complaining about Mat saying bloody ashes. Would it have been hard for BS or Team Jordan to change that to blood and ashes? No. But, seriously, that's actually gonna to be a problem when reading the book? Those kinds of things need to be let go and not obsessed over.

 

I think this is the perfect example of people who don't understand the criticism. Some people have read these books, over and over. They've caught the little details, like Aviendha calling Rand by his full name. They understand why a character does what he/she does. If there is one thing you could say about RJ and these books, it is that he was consistent in his little details. He had a reason and explanation for everything. That is what many people like about the WoT world, is that it is so fully developed.

 

So, when BS can misinterpret a detail, or writes an inconsistency, it is confusing and annoying. In a series that went 10 books with few inconsistencies, the close readers are going to be bothered when the rules of the world change.

 

 

I think this is where the difference between the critics and non critics comes from. The critics are the close readers, who expect the rules to be followed. The non critics appreciate the plot movement, and are willing to accept the missed details or do not notice them.

There's probably truth to that. I have no problem with things if I can see the movement in the books myself and fill in the gaps. Avi not only spent a year or more with wetlanders, she was given an order to understand them and their customs. It just doesn't bother me. But, I can see where it might some.

[Suttree]

I think when you compare the reviews for the the last two WoT books to the 'middle' WoT books you will find that most fans aren't bothered by this and are in fact, very happy with Sanderson's work.

 

Initially happy as there was a good deal of fan and plot gratification in getting to see things wrapped up. You have to keep in mind that it has as much to do with where we are in the story arc as anything. The set up books are done and story lines are wrapping up. The problem being once that initial glow wears off TGS and ToM are so wildly inconsistent. The combination of the rushed process/ writing being unpolished and blunt has left us with two installments with close to zero rereadability. Further the issues which Team Jordan have admitted exist really jjump off the page in many places.

 

When comparing lumping together the "middle books" is a gross overstatement. The one you could realistically make an argument for is CoT but again that is more of a function of mistakes in how Jordan chose to handle that specific book and where we were in the series. If you say fans like those two because they get to see the plot advanced I can understand what you mean. When comparing the quality of writing however and how the books will be viewed over the long term you dot have much of a case. They quite simply don't hold up under careful scrutiny.

 

And here is exactly what I'm talking about. People can't have enjoyed the books simply because they were well done. It was only for plot gratification. And if you think otherwise you obviously aren't smart enough to understand the flaws in the terrible writing. You don't just have a different opinion than me. You are actually wrong and BS's work is crap and rushed and he doesn't care about the product he's putting out. History will confirm my obviously correct assessment.

 

And I'll see this reply every single time someone posts something positive about BS's books.

 

Gah, should have left when I planned to. Off to re-read the series in anticipation of the new book. I need to replace the current bad WoT taste in my mouth I have from these forums with something enjoyable.

 

Genuinely sorry you feel that way Mark. For as much as I hear what you are saying its unrealistic for you to think I will pull punches with my opinion. It's not a statement on anyone else, just what I personally think. The fact that you and many others I respect agree for the most part adds weight to that.

 

Quick question if one doesn't care/notice about "polished prose" or "characterization" as many claim when saying they like these books what would you call their enjoyment aside from "plot gratification". I have as much right to express that as you do saying people are silly for obsessing over the small details. Different people read books for different reasons.

 

Further I take exception to you saying you only see the same response as our side largely are the only ones backing up our criticism. Where are the examples of great writing and strong prose in support of the other side? Lastly the books were rushed.(again on this let me just say I have been very disappointed regarding what I have heard from reliable people about the process) What is public knowledge is Brandon washes his hands of AMoL before revisions were done or beta readers had seen the book. He didn't use the extra time we were all so happy about. That is a simple fact along with Team Jordan admitting to issues. If you don't notice them fine but stop pretending they don't exist and more so get off this high horse as if my critique is some how a statement on other people.

[PaulChauvet]

I think this is where the difference between the critics and non critics comes from. The critics are the close readers, who expect the rules to be followed. The non critics appreciate the plot movement, and are willing to accept the missed details or do not notice them.

 

I think that's a great way of putting it - as 'critic' vs 'non-critic' (as opposed to casual vs die hard), just like movie/book critics.

[MarkDiLillo]

What I mean is - so what. All of the characters change throughout the books. There's good reason for Aviendha to become more familiar with Rand and call him by his first name only. What's the big deal?

 

The big deal is that it would only take one line in the entire book to confirm that she changed and feels more comfortable with calling Rand by his first name only now and that line just isn't there. Why isnt it there? Why isn't there a line that says she feels more comfortable with referring to him as Rand in front of others now? Why not put that in when there are plenty of lines to the contrary showing how she is very uncomfortable referring to him by his first name. The lack of this simple line in the entire writing means there is no transition and suddenly it is extremely out of character and jarring. It doesn't matter that BS wrote this, if RJ had wrote it like this it would also have jarred us.

 

If it wasn't a mistake then a single sentence could have completely corrected the entire thing and it would become a seamless part of the story. That sentence wasn't there and that is why this irritates people.

 

And I think it's just silly to let something like this effect your enjoyment of the book. Aviendha says "Rand" and not "Rand al'Thor"? This book must be garbage!! Really? It's the same with people complaining about Mat saying bloody ashes. Would it have been hard for BS or Team Jordan to change that to blood and ashes? No. But, seriously, that's actually gonna to be a problem when reading the book? Those kinds of things need to be let go and not obsessed over.

 

You're right...if this was the only problem then it is silly. However, like I said before, this is one of MANY little problems. Together they all add up to a big problem. Ever wonder why Avi or Mat doesn't read as the same character? You can quickly just write it off as "well its a different author". Guess what though...if you analyze the details you find that there are a lot of little things like the Rand thing that are off. Those little things are the EASY things that BS should have been able to get right. Correct all of them and suddenly the scene may feel a bit off, but it is readable and feels a hell of a lot better.

[thisguy]

This could also just come down to people enjoying or being used to one kind of writing style as opposed to another. Much of RJ's repetitiveness didn't hit me when I first read the books - as they came out 1-2 years apart. I've just reread over 10 books in about 3 months. I can skip whole paragraphs as some of what is written was said 200 pages ago and the book before and the book before that.

[capuga]

What I mean is - so what. All of the characters change throughout the books. There's good reason for Aviendha to become more familiar with Rand and call him by his first name only. What's the big deal?

 

The big deal is that it would only take one line in the entire book to confirm that she changed and feels more comfortable with calling Rand by his first name only now and that line just isn't there. Why isnt it there? Why isn't there a line that says she feels more comfortable with referring to him as Rand in front of others now? Why not put that in when there are plenty of lines to the contrary showing how she is very uncomfortable referring to him by his first name. The lack of this simple line in the entire writing means there is no transition and suddenly it is extremely out of character and jarring. It doesn't matter that BS wrote this, if RJ had wrote it like this it would also have jarred us.

 

If it wasn't a mistake then a single sentence could have completely corrected the entire thing and it would become a seamless part of the story. That sentence wasn't there and that is why this irritates people.

 

And I think it's just silly to let something like this effect your enjoyment of the book. Aviendha says "Rand" and not "Rand al'Thor"? This book must be garbage!! Really? It's the same with people complaining about Mat saying bloody ashes. Would it have been hard for BS or Team Jordan to change that to blood and ashes? No. But, seriously, that's actually gonna to be a problem when reading the book? Those kinds of things need to be let go and not obsessed over.

 

I think this is the perfect example of people who don't understand the criticism. Some people have read these books, over and over. They've caught the little details, like Aviendha calling Rand by his full name. They understand why a character does what he/she does. If there is one thing you could say about RJ and these books, it is that he was consistent in his little details. He had a reason and explanation for everything. That is what many people like about the WoT world, is that it is so fully developed.

 

So, when BS can misinterpret a detail, or writes an inconsistency, it is confusing and annoying. In a series that went 10 books with few inconsistencies, the close readers are going to be bothered when the rules of the world change.

 

 

I think this is where the difference between the critics and non critics comes from. The critics are the close readers, who expect the rules to be followed. The non critics appreciate the plot movement, and are willing to accept the missed details or do not notice them.

 

EDIT: Please keep in mind, I've got nothing against people who read for the plot. That's how I read the books the first 2 or 3 times. Just, over time, I caught more details, and found I loved finding these gems. Having them violated in ignorance is what can bother me about BS's writing.

 

Firstly, I'm neither dumb nor a casual reader. I've read the books around 12 times and been a member or lurker on WoT forums for almost a decade. So, yes, I notice when Aviendha says "Rand". I notice that Mat says bloody ashes now when he never did before. And I could care less. What effect does that really have on the plot or the character. Absolutely zero. I can't believe that people allow that impact their enjoyment of the story. Those types of details don't matter.

 

And bloody ashes isn't what makes Mat's character sound off. Mat sounds off because BS had tried too hard to make him funny and he comes off as over the top. The elaborate back stories are a good example of this. These are the kinds of criticisms that should be discussed.

 

Not adding an al'Thor at the end of Rand should just be let go.