Thisguy's Topic on Brandon's Work

[The Fisher King]

Would you be willing to write a report on that signing, with everything you can remember? It doesn't matter if you can't remember everything; whatever you can remember would be awesome.

 

Terez - I'd be happy to. I was a kid then, and with my mom. I'll write up more later but I do remember the name of the place which Im 99% sure isn't there anymore, sadly. It was called ''Future Visions'' and it was in Houston, Texas. I said 91 earlier but I distinctly remember it being RIGHT when EOTW came out and buying it in hardcover there and getting it signed by RJ. The REASON we were there that day was because that was a favorite bookstore of ours and the owner had told us before on a prior visit about Jordan's ''Tour Stop'' there and that early word was that EOTW was AWESOME. So, Mom and I made a date of it.

 

I THINK it was a Saturday and there were not many people there at all. Sign of the times. Now days, it'd be packed, lol. Plus, ''Jordan'' as Mr Rigney was calling himself the pen name by for his fiction books then, wasn't super well-known yet - though his version of Conan had been liked by critics for years.

 

Anyway, there were mainly four of us there chatting in this little shop. Myself - The Mom, the owner and RJ. He was hilarious because the way he spoke was waaay more cultured and distinct that we silly, twangy Texans. He was a chatterbox, too. He gave signs that he would NEVER be comfortable with any kind of ''celebrity'' but if you could set him off on a topic he'd chat your ear off. I remember him talking about his love of writing and remember him insisting repeatedly that HIS series (TWOT) was DIFFERENT than the norm. A ''thinking person's'' series and not typical fantasy of the day. I remember him stressing that he had laid down hints and seeds in TEOTW that would not come to fruition for many books to come and he wanted people to be shocked and excited when they did. THIS is what always made me scratch my head inlater years when he reportedly said he originally envisoned TWOT as a ''trilogy.''

 

NO FREAKIN WAY, lol.

 

He was a BIG man, Jolly, chivalrous=seeming. A real gentleman. Treated everyone the same - me as a child, my mom as a mom/woman, the guy as the shopkeeper...he came off a bit socially awkward, BUT, that was probably due to US - the crazy Texans more than him ;)

 

You could tell that he had put SO MUCH of himself into TEOTW and what would follow.

 

Awesome man. I wish I could have told him that HIS books were the last books my mom read before she passed very unexpectedly.

 

I'll try to think of more.

 

 

Fish

[Leopoled Boothe]

IMO - Then conflicting statements to the loyal fans didn't help - nor did Brandon admitting that he had quit trying to improve certain areas of weakness. Or his stubborness about how ''right'' he was on certain matters.

 

hmmm, I was not aware of any of this but I am intrigued do you know of any links where I can read more about this?

 

The problem was, that TOM was SUCH a jarring step back from TGS in terms of quality that it really caused a stir.

 

The only problem I had with ToM was the confusing timeline. RJ himself said that the remainder of the story could not be told in more than one coherent book, thus Brandon was left with the choice of giving us many incomplete story arcs in TGS of giving us a few complete ones. He went with the latter and chose to focus on Rand and Egwene and I think this was the right decision. The problems arose when he decided to include the other POVs in TOM while simultaneously continuing with Rand and Egwene's story arcs. Why did he not catch all the other characters up before reintroducing Rand and Egwene. I never understood why he had Rand come down off the Mountain in chapter one of TOM. I think a little suspense concerning what had become of Rand on Dragonmount would have worked well. You know, concentrate on Perrin, Mat, Elayne etc for the first half of the book until their arcs are caught up and then have the big reveal of Rand coming down off the mountain in his new zen state. I really didn't have much of a problem with the content of ToM, it was a good read once you get the timeline all worked out, but I really don't feel like I should have had to work it out for myself. I really feel like the timeline confusion was avoidable. For example, why not put the chapter where Rand comes down off the mountain directly following the one where Perrin witness him in TAR. Seems that would have made more sense. Brandon's Interpretation of Mat is a problem but at least arc I've most been looking forward to, namely Moiraine's rescue was written by Jordan so Mat did feel right in that scene. At any rate, I'm fairly certain that all the story arcs are caught up with one another as of the end of ToM so the "time lag" (as I like to call it) should not be a problem in AMoL so I am hopeful that it will be closer to the quality of TGS.

[The Fisher King]

Luckers - just saw your above post. Thanks, mate.

 

 

Fish

[Maleshub]

Aside from minor issues, the most disheartening thing in the prologue is the apparent slaughter of Aviendha's timeline. If that is indeed a major hiccup, it cannot be blamed on Brandon; because my impression is that Team Jordan reviewed the timeline, even in RJ's time.

 

Aviendha should have had two weeks to meet the Wise Ones. She should have had more than one night to try and salvage the future of the Aiel.

[KakitaOCU]

In both types of mistakes, though, Brandon is not totally to blame. Editing and Team Jordan also bear some responsibility. Yes?

 

 

This is a big one for me, too, Druid. Suttree has brought it up a lot too. Maria, Alan and Harriet have all been immersed in this series for YEARS longer than Brandon, and why they allowed some of his decisions to stand and make it into the published books has always Blown.Me.Away.

 

I do have to push just a bit more on this point, perhaps the reason Maria, Alan and Harriet let various things through is because they found them alright. This isn't going to change someone's personal feelings or opinions on a work, nor do I think it should. But at least for me, if it passes Harriet's approval then I'm probably going to accept it as alright, at least in terms of if it was any sort of objective issue vs a personal feeling or take on the matter.

[Sid]

Speaking of breaking the fourth wall...

Little things. You just had to make sure the little things were done right, and—

His fingers slipped, and he punched a hole with the diamond pointing the wrong way. Two of the holes ripped into one another at the motion.

He nearly tossed the entire thing across the room in frustration. That was the fifth time tonight!

 

---

 

Leaving something unfinished was nearly as bad as messing up the details.

And what to make of this? I'm not sure I want to think about it.

[The Fisher King]

Leopold...I saw a BIG difference in TOM from TGS and I totally respect your differing opinion.

 

One thing was that TOM - despite the title - was a lighter book in tone. Dark Rand made TGS feel heavy and oppressive. In a good way. Well done Brandon.

 

One thing that jarred me in TOM was the return of Elayne. I LIKED Elayne before. She was SILLY, but in a cute way and still SMART. In TOM she went from Silly to Idiot and I hated it. Plus, the constant jumping around bugged me. As did all the typos. And don't get me started on the timeline. Weird thing about that was, in TGS, BS had actually done a semi-decent job (Sulin notwithstanding) of pulling it TOGETHER. But then...he dropped it again in TOM and it splattered ALL OVER the place, lol.

 

In fairness, RJ is the one who lost control of it originally and let me tell you: a timeline is one of THE HARDEST things in a story to control.

 

Also, you might be mistaken with one thing you say, Leopold - Jordan actually had said that he DID think he could end it all in one more book. Even if that book had to be 2,000 pages long and carted out of the store in a wheel barrow. Now, whether Mr Jordan was RIGHT about this (and future events bore out a justified skepticism to this statement) is a whole different matter...

 

 

Fish

[The Fisher King]

Sid - LOL!!! Nice catch!!!

 

 

Fish

[The Fisher King]

In both types of mistakes, though, Brandon is not totally to blame. Editing and Team Jordan also bear some responsibility. Yes?

 

 

This is a big one for me, too, Druid. Suttree has brought it up a lot too. Maria, Alan and Harriet have all been immersed in this series for YEARS longer than Brandon, and why they allowed some of his decisions to stand and make it into the published books has always Blown.Me.Away.

 

I do have to push just a bit more on this point, perhaps the reason Maria, Alan and Harriet let various things through is because they found them alright. This isn't going to change someone's personal feelings or opinions on a work, nor do I think it should. But at least for me, if it passes Harriet's approval then I'm probably going to accept it as alright, at least in terms of if it was any sort of objective issue vs a personal feeling or take on the matter.

 

Fair point. I still disagree. I understand they are now The Law, but just because THEY deem something right doesn't make it so.

 

 

Fish

[Luckers]

Elayne in TofM made me think someone had stolen her ritalin.

 

Luckers - just saw your above post. Thanks, mate.

 

 

Fish

 

:-) Spent a bit of time on it, lol. Passing time at work.

[The Fisher King]

IMO - Then conflicting statements to the loyal fans didn't help - nor did Brandon admitting that he had quit trying to improve certain areas of weakness. Or his stubborness about how ''right'' he was on certain matters.

 

hmmm, I was not aware of any of this but I am intrigued do you know of any links where I can read more about this?

 

The problem was, that TOM was SUCH a jarring step back from TGS in terms of quality that it really caused a stir.

 

The only problem I had with ToM was the confusing timeline. RJ himself said that the remainder of the story could not be told in more than one coherent book, thus Brandon was left with the choice of giving us many incomplete story arcs in TGS of giving us a few complete ones. He went with the latter and chose to focus on Rand and Egwene and I think this was the right decision. The problems arose when he decided to include the other POVs in TOM while simultaneously continuing with Rand and Egwene's story arcs. Why did he not catch all the other characters up before reintroducing Rand and Egwene. I never understood why he had Rand come down off the Mountain in chapter one of TOM. I think a little suspense concerning what had become of Rand on Dragonmount would have worked well. You know, concentrate on Perrin, Mat, Elayne etc for the first half of the book until their arcs are caught up and then have the big reveal of Rand coming down off the mountain in his new zen state. I really didn't have much of a problem with the content of ToM, it was a good read once you get the timeline all worked out, but I really don't feel like I should have had to work it out for myself. I really feel like the timeline confusion was avoidable. For example, why not put the chapter where Rand comes down off the mountain directly following the one where Perrin witness him in TAR. Seems that would have made more sense. Brandon's Interpretation of Mat is a problem but at least arc I've most been looking forward to, namely Moiraine's rescue was written by Jordan so Mat did feel right in that scene.

 

Leopoled - two that spring to mind for now are, one: When the ''Sulin Situation'' was discovered and Brandon hastened to adamantly decree that it was NOT a ''timeline error'' and there was a ''reason'' for this. He insinuated that it was a storyline reason and that it was possible within the story for her to be in two places at once. This led to much ''Sulin Is Dark theorizing...only, a bit later for Brandon to come back out and say that it was totally just a timeline error after all! No problem, totally understandable - but, then, why not just say so in the first place?

 

Secondly - there were also times when Brandon was telling fans something quite different than his own teammates were saying. I have come to secretly believe that in those cases he was being a stand up guy and protecting Harriet. Taking the bullet on something Harriet may have changed her mind about.

 

If more come to mind (and there are others). I'll post them.

 

 

Fish

[Leopoled Boothe]

Also I've heard rumors that in his final days RJ focused mostly on the prologue and the ending. I'm not sure exactly how to define "ending" but I'm hoping that he worked on a big chunk of the final chapters and thus as we get closer to the end it will begin to feel more like the old Wheel of Time and that at least for the final curtain we will get the old Mat back. Here's to hoping.

[The Fisher King]

Elayne in TofM made me think someone had stolen her ritalin.

 

 

Now, see, THATs funny! One of the three funniest things Ive read here in quite a while. Interestingly, all three are in this thread. One other was Sid, just above, and the other was (forgive me for not remembering who) the epically awesome line about Prologue Arse-Kicking Talmanes Seeming More Like OUR Mat Than Mat Himself Does Now.

 

 

Fish

[TootThatHorn]

I also get a bit tired of this weird idea some seem to have that B.S. did the world a favor by accepting this. What he will receive from this goes far beyond money. Rightly or wrongly he will now always be known as "The Man Who Finished 'The Wheel of Time' ."

 

And while it makes me queasy to even type that, it is a bit of honor and distinction that he can now - rightly or wrongly - hang on his mantle.

 

 

Fish

 

I went through and read his AMA on Reddit, he did it about a year ago. I was honestly surprised at how little he was asked about WoT. Surprisingly enough (to me anyways) he seems to have a pretty avid following for his original works, which I would assume could be much better given that it is all YOUR original work rather than finishing off someone else's.

 

I saw chapter 11 being referenced again in this thread as well. I had a conversation with a friend after we read that. I essentially stated, and he agreed, that at least after reading that chapter there went one author I won't have to worry about trying to read. And another friend who is pretty well read in fantasy and has suggested some excellent books to me, told me he tried a BS book and couldn't even swallow the first chapter before spitting it out. The sorry point to this is that a new audience could have been brought to his books had WoT been done better but for some that is not possible. I can't speak for all, but I'm one, even knowing he probably handled his own personal work much better.

 

 

There's really three types of problems that have cropped up:

 

1) In-world language irregularities like the 'bloody ashes' and 'royalty' that Fish brought up, and clumsy turns of phrase like the use of 'reports' that I mentioned earlier. These really bug people because they cause momentary breaks in immersion and could have been caught with careful editing.

 

2) Larger storytelling issues like the blunt 'tell instead of show' and 'one sentence too many' things that Luckers and others have brought up, or the Androl character discussed in another thread. These are a mixed bag--they could be author style, but given #1 it's equally likely they're partly the result of rushed writing and editing as well. It's harder to notice this sort of problem while mainlining the plot during a first read, but they do make rereads less enjoyable.

 

3) Problems that are clearly a matter of author style and tone, like Mat's characterization in TGS. I think everyone expected things like this to happen with the change in authorship, and while they're extremely off-putting, they're also understandable and forgivable for that very reason.

 

Ultimately, it's the frequent, trivial problems that make us more sensitive to the inevitable changes due to writing style--and that's too bad, because those problems should have been the easiest to correct.

 

-- dwn

 

Well said, and what's unfortunate about the part in bold is that you have to ask yourself, "If these are the parts he muffed that were easy to fix, then what glaring mistakes were made with the story itself, choosing directions and what not, will we never know about since it's not like RJ is around to ask?"

[The Fisher King]

Writing Mat the way he is meant to be written takes great patience. Sanderson has shown he CAN write a DECENT Mat when he wants to. I think Brandon too often gets frustrated with the care and patience that are needed to get Mat right and just shirks the whole deal, leaving us with Clown Mat.

 

Mat is meant to be more The Doctor and too often Brandon gives us Mat as Graham Norton.

 

**Wonders if ANYONE will 'get' THAT!** ;)

 

 

Fish

[TootThatHorn]

Writing Mat the way he is meant to be written takes great patience. Sanderson has shown he can write a DECENT Mat when he wants to. I think Brandon too often gets frustrated with the care and patience that are needed to get Mat right and just shirks the whole deal, leaving us with Clown Mat.

 

Mat is meant to be more The Doctor and too often Brandon gives us Mat as Graham Norton.

 

**Wonders if ANYONE will 'get' THAT!** ;)

 

 

Fish

 

You say Graham Norton I say Jim Norton...let them get that one tss tss

[The Fisher King]

Everyone knows that Jordan wrote ''The End' ... in a thousand page book though, what does that mean? Last word? Last paragraph - last chapter? Last POV for each main character?

 

At this point, I'd be frackin overcome with joy if the last 100 pages are all Jordan, but I seriously doubt that will be the case.

 

 

Fish

[The Fisher King]

You say Graham Norton I say Jim Norton...let them get that one tss tss

 

HA!!!

 

 

Fish

[Maleshub]

Is a writer's style a reflection, if partially, of said writer's personality? Because if it is, I don't think Brandon and RJ are in the same category. The differences are so clear .... according to wikipedia:

 

 

Jordan was born in Charleston, South Carolina. He served two tours in Vietnam (from 1968 to 1970) with the United States Army as a helicopter gunner. He was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross with oak leaf cluster, theBronze Star with "V" and oak leaf cluster, and two Vietnamese Gallantry Crosses with palm. After returning from Vietnam he attendedThe Citadel where he received an undergraduate degree in physics. After graduating he was employed by the United States Navy as anuclear engineer. He began writing in 1977. He was a history buff and enjoyed hunting, fishing, sailing, poker, chess, pool, and pipe collecting. He described himself as a "High Church" Episcopalian^[6] and received communion more than once a week.^[7] He lived with his wife Harriet McDougal, who works as a book editor (currently with Tor Books; she was also Jordan's editor) in a house built in 1797.^[8] Responding to queries on the similarity of some of the concepts in his Wheel of Time books with Freemasonry concepts, Jordan admitted that he was a Freemason. However, "like his father and grandfather," he did not prefer to advertise, possibly because of the negative propaganda against Freemasonry. In his own words, "no man in this country should feel in danger because of his beliefs."^[9]

 

A Nebraska native,^[1][2] Sanderson currently resides in American Fork, Utah. He earned his Master's degree in Creative Writing in 2005 from Brigham Young University,^[3] where he was on the staff of Leading Edge, a semi-professional speculative fiction magazine published by the university. He was a college roommate of Jeopardy! champion Ken Jennings.^[4][5]

Sanderson was married on July 7, 2006.^[6] He is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints^[2] and served as amissionary in Seoul, Korea.^[7] He currently teaches creative writing at Brigham Young University, in addition to working on his own writing.

He is a participant in the weekly podcast Writing Excuses with authors Dan Wells, Mary Robinette Kowal, and web cartoonist Howard Tayler.

 

Just comparing their biographies says how different their writing styles and personas are. Jordan was a scientist turned writer ... details (particles) are his specialty. Without that, I don't think he would have exhibited an extra-terrestrial talent for details, building blocks, and subtle hints not forgotten decades after his first book. That aspect of Jordan's style is almost impossible to emulate.

 

Jordan saw death and destruction, participated in death and destruction. He was a soldier, a decorated veteran, with extensive military training and experience. Brandon will never be as true to that "profession" as Jordan. He'll never reflect something he hasn't lived through as well as Jordan.

 

Jordan seems to have a masterful grasp of human psychology. Whether that came through study, self-learning, or life's experience, RJ exhibited extremely powerful psychological scenes. Brandon doesn't seem to have the same background; or he doesn't have the luxury of going into that much detail.

 

Brandon is a writer by training and profession, Jordan is more diverse and can draw on so many different experiences to enhance his writing. They are two very different people.

[Leopoled Boothe]

Also, you might be mistaken with one thing you say, Leopold - Jordan actually had said that he DID think he could end it all in one more book. Even if that book had to be 2,000 pages long and carted out of the store in a wheel barrow. Now, whether Mr Jordan was RIGHT about this (and future events bore out a justified skepticism to this statement) is a whole different matter...

 

Its no mistake, RJ said that he did not think the story could be completed in MORE THAN ONE coherent book thus he wanted to complete the story in the 12th book even if it was a 2000 page monster. Sorry if I did not communicate that adequately, but thats why Brandon and not I was chosen to complete the series (lol). Interestingly he said that it could perhaps be completed with one coherent book and one incoherent one and so far that is exactly what we have gotten. Let's hope there is room for one more coherent book.

[Luckers]

There's really three types of problems that have cropped up:

 

1) In-world language irregularities like the 'bloody ashes' and 'royalty' that Fish brought up, and clumsy turns of phrase like the use of 'reports' that I mentioned earlier. These really bug people because they cause momentary breaks in immersion and could have been caught with careful editing.

 

2) Larger storytelling issues like the blunt 'tell instead of show' and 'one sentence too many' things that Luckers and others have brought up, or the Androl character discussed in another thread. These are a mixed bag--they could be author style, but given #1 it's equally likely they're partly the result of rushed writing and editing as well. It's harder to notice this sort of problem while mainlining the plot during a first read, but they do make rereads less enjoyable.

 

3) Problems that are clearly a matter of author style and tone, like Mat's characterization in TGS. I think everyone expected things like this to happen with the change in authorship, and while they're extremely off-putting, they're also understandable and forgivable for that very reason.

 

Ultimately, it's the frequent, trivial problems that make us more sensitive to the inevitable changes due to writing style--and that's too bad, because those problems should have been the easiest to correct.

 

-- dwn

 

Well said, and what's unfortunate about the part in bold is that you have to ask yourself, "If these are the parts he muffed that were easy to fix, then what glaring mistakes were made with the story itself, choosing directions and what not, will we never know about since it's not like RJ is around to ask?"

 

Graendal and Perrin ftw.

[The Fisher King]

Theodril - You are so right. DETAILS and carefully-crafted plans and character quirks are what I LOVED about Jordan's writing. I also loved his structure. He is one of the best I ever read concerning skilled POV Structuring in a Third Person Limited Narrative.

 

One thing I love about Mat is...in three or four books he picks a time to go off alone, find a place to sit (usually a boulder, though in FOH I believe it was just a patch of sand, after his battle with Couladin) and sit and reflect, in solitary, serious fashion. The best Mat scene in TGS is when he goes and finds the boulder to sit on and just comes to terms with things. This was after the Hinderstrap battle. In TSR he lays in his tent and ponders everything that has happened to him in the Waste. In COT or KOD he finds a boulder and alone sits and ponders the battle in the harbor of Ebou Dar. He feels all the causalties. Its what Mat does. After a battle...he gets away and THINKS. ...Later in KOD he finds a secluded grove of trees and reflects on the battle to help Tuon escape. ... LOVED this consistent DETAIL about Mat over several books. What I miss in the past two books is that INSIDE dialogue of Mat's that shows that internally he is a brilliant tactician who cares for others deeply and offsets the roguish charm he gets a kick out of exhibiting externally.

 

 

Fish

[Maleshub]

Theodril - You are so right. DETAILS and carefully-crafted plans and character quirks are what I LOVED about Jordan's writing. I also loved his structure. He is one of the best I ever read concerning skilled POV Structuring in a Third Person Limited Narrative.

 

One thing I love about Mat is...in three or four books he picks a time to go off alone, find a place to sit (usually a boulder, though in FOH I believe it was just a patch of sand, after his battle with Couladin) and sit and reflect, in solitary, serious fashion. The best Mat scene in TGS is when he goes and finds the boulder to sit on and just comes to terms with things. This was after the Hinderstrap battle. In TSR he lays in his tent and ponders everything that has happened to him in the Waste. In COT or KOD he finds a boulder and alone sits and ponders the battle in the harbor of Ebou Dar. He feels all the causalties. Its what Mat does. After a battle...he gets away and THINKS. ...Later in KOD he finds a secluded grove of trees and reflects on the battle to help Tuon escape. ... LOVED this consistent DETAIL about Mat over several books. What I miss in the past two books is that INSIDE dialogue of Mat's that shows that internally he is a brilliant tactician who cares for others deeply and offsets the roguish charm he gets a kick out of exhibiting externally.

 

 

Fish

 

Mat is a mix of Jordan's military experience and psychological knowledge. RJ knows how a soldier or officer thinks. With WoT so heavy on military (fighting, tactics, and strategy), Jordan brings the real deal to the table. Brandon can only write about it.

[The Fisher King]

You nailed it, Theodril.

 

Much can be forgiven. But not changing a character's main persona. One thing that drove me nuts was a part where Sanderson has Mat thinking to himself that he'd love to go and find a good battle or fight to jump into. Mat HATES fights. A man could get himsef DEAD in one of those! Or have his coat poked full of holes!

 

This is another example of Brandon misunderstanding the dichotomy of Mat's nature. May says one thing while he is doing another. But what Mat BELIEVES never truly changes. THAT is the contradiction Jordan established.

 

The way Brandon plays that contradiction/dichotomy however, is by changing what Mat BELIEVES and not just what he says or does. Big difference.

 

Under RJ, Mat will stand there and think how he would never have all the lace that fool Lords have on their coats while he is telling the tailor to add ''just a bit more'' lace. But he's still a stud. Just a stud that subconciously is starting to dig a bit of lace.

 

Sanderson has Mat get the lace AND begin acting like one of those fool Lords.

 

A lot of it is HOW he is doing things too. Mat, I mean.

 

I hate pointing this out because it bespeaks a difference in writing skill between the two. But, Mat used ''backstories'' under Jordan's pen and he also wrote a ''funny'' letter under RJ.

 

But look at the EXECUTION. The backstory and letter in COS was funny and subtle and well-handled...the letter in TOM still wakes me up in a cold sweat some nights and when I read Mat going ON AND ON like a child telling a lie in Chapter 11 of AMOL with ANOTHER ''cover story'' I honestly couldn't believe that Sanderson thought his version of the ''gag'' was still funny and still worked. Reading about 'the 'Zany Exploits' of 'Master Crimson'' makes me want to put my head through a window just to ease the pain.

 

 

Fish

[TootThatHorn]

You nailed it, Theodril.

 

Much can be forgiven. But not changing a character's main persona. One thing that drove me nuts was a part where Sanderson has Mat thinking to himself that he'd love to go and find a good battle or fight to jump into. Mat HATES fights. A man could get himsef DEAD in one of those! Or have his coat poked full of holes!

 

This is another example of Brandon misunderstanding the dichotomy of Mat's nature. May says one thing while he is doing another. But what Mat BELIEVES never truly changes. THAT is the contradiction Jordan established.

 

The way Brandon plays that contradiction/dichotomy however, is by changing what Mat BELIEVES and not just what he says or does. Big difference.

 

Under RJ, Mat will stand there and think how he would never have all the lace that fool Lords have on their coats while he is telling the tailor to add ''just a bit more'' lace. But he's still a stud. Just a stud that subconciously is starting to dig a bit of lace.

 

Sanderson has Mat get the lace AND begin acting like one of those fool Lords.

 

A lot of it is HOW he is doing things too. Mat, I mean.

 

I hate pointing this out because it bespeaks a difference in writing skill between the two. But, Mat used ''backstories'' under Jordan's pen and he also wrote a ''funny'' letter under RJ.

 

But look at the EXECUTION. The backstory and letter in COS was funny and subtle and well-handled...the letter in TOM still wakes me up in a cold sweat some nights and when I read Mat going ON AND ON like a child telling a lie in Chapter 11 of AMOL with ANOTHER ''cover story'' I honestly couldn't believe that Sanderson thought his version of the ''gag'' was still funny and still worked. Reading about 'the 'Zany Exploits' of 'Master Crimson'' makes me want to put my head through a window just to ease the pain.

 

 

Fish

 

(?)

That damn letter. Am I remembering wrong or was it not in the book like he actually wrote it out too? Just the worst slapstick in the face.