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Alanna Mosvani, is she aligned with the dark?


kasheem
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Rereading and currently on The Great Hunt Chapter 12. In there is when Egwene and Nyneave begin receiving lessons from multiple Sisters besides Moiraine. First it is Verin, then Alviarin, Alanna, and Liandrin. Three confirmed Black Ajah (yes, Verin is not a dark friend but is Black) and then mysterious Alanna. I'm not that good at recalling information in WoT due to its mass, but I know she forcefully Bonded Rand and according to Wiki strangely vanished from the Stone of Tear without using Saidar and had a letter from Verin. I've always assumed at some point she would have to have a major part in all of this having Bonded Rand, anyone believe it is a part for the dark?

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This has been much debated and you may want to do a search of the forums to see all the arguments for and against. personally, I'm quite sure she is not Black.

A few reasons.

  • Verin found out most Blacks and it's pretty clear she doesn't know about Alanna. Egwene doesn't mention her name among the Blacks listed by Verin and I'm sure she would have given that Egwene herself was suspicious of Alanna being Black early on. And certainly at least one of them would warn Rand. yet Rand doesn't seem much concerned about her when Min mentions that she is missing in TOM. This was after he got Verin's letter. Also, in Verin's POV in LOC, ch 11(after Alanna bonded Rand) Verin and Alanna are not talking to each other as two Black sisters. If they are both Black they don't know about each other at that point. That would be very strange given Verin's abilities to ferret out Blacks and the fact that they've traveled together for a long time.
  • Min's viewing from aCOS, ch 34 that Alanna, Faeldrin , Bera, Merana and Rafela will keep their word to serve Rand. There are no qualifiers here like in the other viewing about Elza and Sorilea. If she is Black she will remain a faithful to Rand Black to the end. Not likely IMO.
  • Alanna asked Cadsuane to pass Rand's bond to her. I have a hard time seeing a Black sister doing that.

But none of this is to say that there isn't something up with Alanna. There clearly is. She seemed to know too much about Rand, Nyn and Egwene quite early on.

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If that significant character is Sorilea, it'll break my heart. I like that woman.

 

With the Black Ajah, I agree, since Verin's revelations, Egwene's cleansing and Rand's post-VoG 'look at my eyes' thingy, "who is DF or not" discussion is just not what it used to be.

 

As for Alanna, I completely agree with herid. I don't think she is BA. It will feel, at least to me, lame if she turns out to be one despite all the evidence.

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Not saying that I believe Alanna -Black but 1 point isn't necessarily true.

 

Verin, if she knew Alanna was Black, she certainly wouldn't tell anyone bar Rand for the simple fact of the Bond. Tell Egwene and her going off and demanding her head won't be too good for Rand when she dies.

 

The rest of the points, however, sufficiently explain without that, so it's really only a minor observation by me.

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@Barid that's an interesting point. I didn't think of that. I'm not completely sure that Verin would have kept it from Egwene even so. BTW, does Egwene know that Alanna bonded Rand? I don't think this has been brought up onscreen but I would assume Nynaeve told her.

 

@ Cem Önal

Well, it has to be somebody. If not Sorilea and Alanna then who? Any suspects? I used to be pretty sure that it was Sorilea because she is the only one who knew how to disarm the wards on Cadsuane's box.

Nobody else knew those weaves as they were Cadsuane's own invention and BS made clear in interviews that this was not something that Shaidar Haran could have done himself.

 

However some other recent comments by BS and some things that Sorilea said in the AMOL prologue (which I can not mention an this board) make it much more doubtful.

 

 

Luckers

 

Do the Forsaken know the weaves Elza used to break the warding Cadsuane placed on the Domination Band?

Brandon Sanderson

 

 

Yes.

LUCKERS

 

So, why didn’t they use it on wardings Rand placed on Callandor, and the other things they’ve wanted that were warded earlier in the series?

BRANDON SANDERSON

 

*stares at me for a long moment, thoughtfully* They may not have know them then. The thing is... we don’t see a lot of the Shadow innovating with the Power, unlike with the Light, but they have been. As much as the Light. But they know, now. The notes definitely say this.

 

I thought that perhaps this quote can be interpreted by saying that the Forsaken learned those weaves after Sorilea showed it to them but that seems like a stretch especially given that both Elza and Semirhage were killed very soon after they could learn those weaves and SH can't channel.

Rather what BS seems to be saying is that the Forsaken just invented the weaves to break Cadsuane's wards themselves.

Edited by herid
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Not saying that I believe Alanna -Black but 1 point isn't necessarily true.

 

Verin, if she knew Alanna was Black, she certainly wouldn't tell anyone bar Rand for the simple fact of the Bond. Tell Egwene and her going off and demanding her head won't be too good for Rand when she dies.

 

The rest of the points, however, sufficiently explain without that, so it's really only a minor observation by me.

Hmm. That is indeed an interesting point. I didn't think of this either, like herid. Solution seems easy enough, though, Verin could have used her Compulsion trick on Alanna to release the bond. She was willing to pass it to Cadsuane, so that leaves the possibility (Verin's trick combined with Rand's ta'veren - he asks her to release it) that she might have been "persuaded" to release it. It doesn't completely negate the evidence but you're quite right in your observation.

 

@ Cem Önal

Well, it has to be somebody. If not Sorilea and Alanna then who? Any suspects? I used to be pretty sure that it was Sorilea because she is the only one who knew how to disarm the wards on Cadsuane's box.

Nobody else knew those weaves as they were Cadsuane's own invention and BS made clear in interviews that this was not something that Shaidar Haran could have done himself.

Honestly, I have no idea. --- Do you remember whether BS said that before or after the release of prologue? It could be as simple as that.

Edited by Cem Önal
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@ Cem Önal

Well, it has to be somebody. If not Sorilea and Alanna then who? Any suspects? I used to be pretty sure that it was Sorilea because she is the only one who knew how to disarm the wards on Cadsuane's box.

Nobody else knew those weaves as they were Cadsuane's own invention and BS made clear in interviews that this was not something that Shaidar Haran could have done himself.

What about Elyas? We havent seen anything from his PoV. I know its a stretch but didn't his sister(Aes Sedai who had him as her warder) turn out to be black Ajah. Or am I wrong about that?

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She is mentioned in the New Spring. And she is not Black. http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/characters/r/rina.html

 

I can't see any Elyas as a DF either. Wolves' problem seems mostly with Shadowspawn and they don't seem to care much for any human whether DF or not but I can't see them accepting a Darkfriend among them as they do and I think they'd figure it out. I trust in Hopper. He seems to have an excellent judgment, far beyond any other character in the books.

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Do you remember whether BS said that before or after the release of prologue? It could be as simple as that.

As far as I can tell there is nothing relevant in any of the released chapters from AMOL so I don't think it matters. But in any case here is the full quote. It's from April 2012

 

Interview: Apr, 2012

 

Gold Coast SupaNova - Eleanor Chandler-Temple (Paraphrased)

Eleanor

 

Are there any Darkfriends—you'll be able to see where I am going with this—amongst the Wise Ones, the main Wise Ones with names, we have seen on screen and know?

Brandon Sanderson

 

 

(Laughs.) RAFO.

ELEANOR

 

Again, you ask a terrible question...BUT THERE IS MORE ON THIS.

I think he felt a little sad about my Sorilea attempt and his inevitable RAFO, and thus offered the following tidbit:

BRANDON SANDERSON

 

"At least one of the named characters is an unrevealed Darkfriend."

ELEANOR

 

I know that this is pretty much a given anyway, but the way he said it—the way he presented it (with this gleam in his eyes and an invisible flourish) it suggests it is...not any old named character, but one with some importance. Of course, that is just my opinion and as such is...debatable.

But have we a list of second- and third-tier named characters who could possibly be Darkfriends?

 

 

It just occurred to me though that he might be talking about Demandred and his alter ego. That would be a serious downer.

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Umm going back to the main topic, in ToM didn't Alanna disappear into the Borderlands? And seeing what's going on there it's probably a big giant Trolloc fest everywhere. She could have very well slipped across the battle lines and joined up with the Shadow. And Rand right after said that the Shadow would always be able to find him now, which could either be her bond with him or the manifestation of Super Rand epic White Light time.

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Alanna went to the Borderlands prompted by Verin's letter. Whatever is going on there Verin wouldn't send her to help the Shadow.

The mere fact that Verin wrote her a letter is another indication that Alanna is not Black. If she were and Verin knew about it she wouldn't have to write Alanna any letters that could only be delivered after her death. She could have just told her before she left Tear.

Edited by herid
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Umm going back to the main topic, in ToM didn't Alanna disappear into the Borderlands? And seeing what's going on there it's probably a big giant Trolloc fest everywhere. She could have very well slipped across the battle lines and joined up with the Shadow. And Rand right after said that the Shadow would always be able to find him now, which could either be her bond with him or the manifestation of Super Rand epic White Light time.

That's too wild an assumption and doesn't have much basis. Rand thinks she could be in Arafel. She is Arafellin. One might as well say she went to aid in her homeland's defense. Not that I think that's what happened but even that is more likely, her being a Green and all.

 

Rand definitely doesn't refer to the bond. He says that in opposition of the suggestion the Shadow could track him with the bond. It is pretty easy to track him post-VoG. They only need to follow the sunlight.

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Umm going back to the main topic, in ToM didn't Alanna disappear into the Borderlands? And seeing what's going on there it's probably a big giant Trolloc fest everywhere. She could have very well slipped across the battle lines and joined up with the Shadow. And Rand right after said that the Shadow would always be able to find him now, which could either be her bond with him or the manifestation of Super Rand epic White Light time.

That's too wild an assumption and doesn't have much basis. Rand thinks she could be in Arafel. She is Arafellin. One might as well say she went to aid in her homeland's defense. Not that I think that's what happened but even that is more likely, her being a Green and all.

 

Rand definitely doesn't refer to the bond. He says that in opposition of the suggestion the Shadow could track him with the bond. It is pretty easy to track him post-VoG. They only need to follow the sunlight.

 

Indeed:

 

"I felt {Alanna} go. Northward somewhere. The Borderlands, perhaps Arafel.. The Shadow does not need her to find me, Min, nor will it ever again. All its eyes are fixed directly on me, and will be until I blind them."

 

Edited: oops

Edited by FarShainMael
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Alanna went to the Borderlands prompted by Verin's letter. Whatever is going on there Verin wouldn't send her to help the Shadow.

The mere fact that Verin wrote her a letter is another indication that Alanna is not Black. If she were and Verin knew about it she wouldn't have to write Alanna any letters that could only be delivered after her death. She could have just told her before she left Tear.

 

The whole with this argument is that Verin knew that Alanna was black, and gave her a letter to warn her that she would be hunted in order to avoid Rand suffering from Warder Rage at her death. She would still have to delay the knowledge to Alanna simply because she cannot tip her hand before it occurs.

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Arguments have been made against that before.

 

And if Alanna was black, then the Forsaken would have secured Alanna in the first place. She is not black, and the existence of the bond is probably known only to the Salidar sisters sworn to Rand, Cadsuane's group, the Wise Ones and few others like Min and Nynaeve. By the way, that says something about Sorilea being a DF, too.

Edited by Cem Önal
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