Spoilers! Chapter One - Eastwards the Winds Blew is up on Tor

[he who comes with a bong]

Random thought, and perhaps it's been mentioned before and someone can point out where.

 

Why does Eggy think if Rand broke the seals now the DO would instantly be free? I mean, she has notes that state he was never actually free last time pre-seals, so where did she get this assumption that if Rand broke the seals now (How many are really left anyway, 3?) that the DO would be all like, I HATH ARRIVED. CHAOS DESTROY and it's over? I thought he'd have to break the bore open bigger once the seals were gone.

 

I dont think it is mentioned anywhere, unless its in the sheaf of notes that she has got out of the Kindle Ter'angle. And its just something thats not mentioned.

[Vardar]

I know a lot of people want a battle between Logain and Taim, but am I the only on that wants Rand to deal with Mazrim? Every time I do a re-read I want to pull out my hair at Rand's stupidity with how he handles the Black Tower. I know he was busy with a lot of stuff but how could he really be that blind to what was happening there?

 

Anyway, this is my first post here in like three years. I always lurk but rarely post as I always feel uneducated compared to others here. lol

Rand would probably finish him of in seconds in a one on one duel. Better that it's Logain, they are near enough matched in Power, each is a leader of a faction in BT, and we finally get to see whatever the hell Logain has been up to. Maybe Battle of Black Tower will be his rise to glory.

 

Amen to Rand's stupidity part.

 

It's plot induced stupidity also known as bad writing.

 

Logain has to be the one to deal with Taim. The Black Tower and the Asha'man have to establish themselves in their own right. Androl said it in the prologue quite well. If they run to the Aes Sedai to help with their problems they'll have to subordinate themselves beneath the Amyrlin, if they run to the Dragon they'll lose their chance to establish their independance as an organisation. If the Asha'man are to exist as an independant organisation equal to the Aes Sedai after the Last Battle they'll have to clean up their own house. And Logain is supposed to be their leader so he will have to especially distinguish himelf.

 

Technically, Rand is an Ashaman. And he said he was going to deal with the BT in ToM. Still I imagine Logain will be the one to take care of it in the end.

 

Rand isn't defined by his role as Asha'man. He's the Dragon Reborn that's far more than a mere Asha'man and whether Rand survives or not I don't think he'll have anything to do with them after the LB. The Asha'man will have to fend for themselves.

Couple of random questions/clarifications for the rest of the book:

 

Shouldn't Rand dislike Gawyn? When Min/Rand were captured, wasn't Gawyn a part of Galina's guard? Shouldn't he have issue with a man that was there when his love (albeit not at the time) was getting beaten?

 

Doesn't Moiraine think Cadsuane is Black? (At least didn't she in NS?)

 

Is it known how strong Logain is in the power? After Ny cures him, he nearly breaks her shield. Doesn't that suggest he's around Chosen-level? I wonder 'cos it seems set up that Taim/Logain face-off, and I was just wondering if they are comparable strengths, considering Mog suggests Taim may be as powerful as the Chosen.

 

Thanks!

 

Logain is more powerful than Taim. Logain is most likely one step below Rand, who is as powerful as a man can get. Taim held near as much power as Rand before Rand reached his full potential. Logain after Rand has maxed. Thus Logain is more powerful.

 

This is really iffy. We've only seen them both compared to Rand and not to each other and both were described as a bit weaker than Rand there's really no telling how strong they are in relation to each other. Especially since we didn't get an objective statement we got Rand's estimate of their powers and Rand was pretty insecure around Asha'man.

 

Yes but Taim was a bit weaker before Rand maxed out. Like Taim would be on Ravhin's level. Logian was a bit weaker after many more battles and a few more forsaken. Thus Rand was stronger at that point.

 

Random thought, and perhaps it's been mentioned before and someone can point out where.

 

Why does Eggy think if Rand broke the seals now the DO would instantly be free? I mean, she has notes that state he was never actually free last time pre-seals, so where did she get this assumption that if Rand broke the seals now (How many are really left anyway, 3?) that the DO would be all like, I HATH ARRIVED. CHAOS DESTROY and it's over? I thought he'd have to break the bore open bigger once the seals were gone.

 

I dont think it is mentioned anywhere, unless its in the sheaf of notes that she has got out of the Kindle Ter'angle. And its just something thats not mentioned.

 

I meant mentioned anywhere in this thread. Like has it been discussed. It makes no sense to me.

[he who comes with a bong]

I know a lot of people want a battle between Logain and Taim, but am I the only on that wants Rand to deal with Mazrim? Every time I do a re-read I want to pull out my hair at Rand's stupidity with how he handles the Black Tower. I know he was busy with a lot of stuff but how could he really be that blind to what was happening there?

 

Anyway, this is my first post here in like three years. I always lurk but rarely post as I always feel uneducated compared to others here. lol

Rand would probably finish him of in seconds in a one on one duel. Better that it's Logain, they are near enough matched in Power, each is a leader of a faction in BT, and we finally get to see whatever the hell Logain has been up to. Maybe Battle of Black Tower will be his rise to glory.

 

Amen to Rand's stupidity part.

 

It's plot induced stupidity also known as bad writing.

 

Logain has to be the one to deal with Taim. The Black Tower and the Asha'man have to establish themselves in their own right. Androl said it in the prologue quite well. If they run to the Aes Sedai to help with their problems they'll have to subordinate themselves beneath the Amyrlin, if they run to the Dragon they'll lose their chance to establish their independance as an organisation. If the Asha'man are to exist as an independant organisation equal to the Aes Sedai after the Last Battle they'll have to clean up their own house. And Logain is supposed to be their leader so he will have to especially distinguish himelf.

 

Technically, Rand is an Ashaman. And he said he was going to deal with the BT in ToM. Still I imagine Logain will be the one to take care of it in the end.

 

Rand isn't defined by his role as Asha'man. He's the Dragon Reborn that's far more than a mere Asha'man and whether Rand survives or not I don't think he'll have anything to do with them after the LB. The Asha'man will have to fend for themselves.

Couple of random questions/clarifications for the rest of the book:

 

Shouldn't Rand dislike Gawyn? When Min/Rand were captured, wasn't Gawyn a part of Galina's guard? Shouldn't he have issue with a man that was there when his love (albeit not at the time) was getting beaten?

 

Doesn't Moiraine think Cadsuane is Black? (At least didn't she in NS?)

 

Is it known how strong Logain is in the power? After Ny cures him, he nearly breaks her shield. Doesn't that suggest he's around Chosen-level? I wonder 'cos it seems set up that Taim/Logain face-off, and I was just wondering if they are comparable strengths, considering Mog suggests Taim may be as powerful as the Chosen.

 

Thanks!

 

Logain is more powerful than Taim. Logain is most likely one step below Rand, who is as powerful as a man can get. Taim held near as much power as Rand before Rand reached his full potential. Logain after Rand has maxed. Thus Logain is more powerful.

 

This is really iffy. We've only seen them both compared to Rand and not to each other and both were described as a bit weaker than Rand there's really no telling how strong they are in relation to each other. Especially since we didn't get an objective statement we got Rand's estimate of their powers and Rand was pretty insecure around Asha'man.

 

Yes but Taim was a bit weaker before Rand maxed out. Like Taim would be on Ravhin's level. Logian was a bit weaker after many more battles and a few more forsaken. Thus Rand was stronger at that point.

 

Random thought, and perhaps it's been mentioned before and someone can point out where.

 

Why does Eggy think if Rand broke the seals now the DO would instantly be free? I mean, she has notes that state he was never actually free last time pre-seals, so where did she get this assumption that if Rand broke the seals now (How many are really left anyway, 3?) that the DO would be all like, I HATH ARRIVED. CHAOS DESTROY and it's over? I thought he'd have to break the bore open bigger once the seals were gone.

 

I dont think it is mentioned anywhere, unless its in the sheaf of notes that she has got out of the Kindle Ter'angle. And its just something thats not mentioned.

 

I meant mentioned anywhere in this thread. Like has it been discussed. It makes no sense to me.

 

Yah i dont think it has been mentioned in this thread ive read pretty much every post lol (boredom). It doesnt make a lot of sense to me either, that she would think that the Do would just pop out and bam end of everything. If that was the case then during the war or the power/shadow it would of been done already.

[thisguy]

I know a lot of people want a battle between Logain and Taim, but am I the only on that wants Rand to deal with Mazrim? Every time I do a re-read I want to pull out my hair at Rand's stupidity with how he handles the Black Tower. I know he was busy with a lot of stuff but how could he really be that blind to what was happening there?

 

Anyway, this is my first post here in like three years. I always lurk but rarely post as I always feel uneducated compared to others here. lol

Rand would probably finish him of in seconds in a one on one duel. Better that it's Logain, they are near enough matched in Power, each is a leader of a faction in BT, and we finally get to see whatever the hell Logain has been up to. Maybe Battle of Black Tower will be his rise to glory.

 

Amen to Rand's stupidity part.

 

It's plot induced stupidity also known as bad writing.

 

Logain has to be the one to deal with Taim. The Black Tower and the Asha'man have to establish themselves in their own right. Androl said it in the prologue quite well. If they run to the Aes Sedai to help with their problems they'll have to subordinate themselves beneath the Amyrlin, if they run to the Dragon they'll lose their chance to establish their independance as an organisation. If the Asha'man are to exist as an independant organisation equal to the Aes Sedai after the Last Battle they'll have to clean up their own house. And Logain is supposed to be their leader so he will have to especially distinguish himelf.

 

Technically, Rand is an Ashaman. And he said he was going to deal with the BT in ToM. Still I imagine Logain will be the one to take care of it in the end.

 

Rand isn't defined by his role as Asha'man. He's the Dragon Reborn that's far more than a mere Asha'man and whether Rand survives or not I don't think he'll have anything to do with them after the LB. The Asha'man will have to fend for themselves.

Couple of random questions/clarifications for the rest of the book:

 

Shouldn't Rand dislike Gawyn? When Min/Rand were captured, wasn't Gawyn a part of Galina's guard? Shouldn't he have issue with a man that was there when his love (albeit not at the time) was getting beaten?

 

Doesn't Moiraine think Cadsuane is Black? (At least didn't she in NS?)

 

Is it known how strong Logain is in the power? After Ny cures him, he nearly breaks her shield. Doesn't that suggest he's around Chosen-level? I wonder 'cos it seems set up that Taim/Logain face-off, and I was just wondering if they are comparable strengths, considering Mog suggests Taim may be as powerful as the Chosen.

 

Thanks!

 

Logain is more powerful than Taim. Logain is most likely one step below Rand, who is as powerful as a man can get. Taim held near as much power as Rand before Rand reached his full potential. Logain after Rand has maxed. Thus Logain is more powerful.

 

This is really iffy. We've only seen them both compared to Rand and not to each other and both were described as a bit weaker than Rand there's really no telling how strong they are in relation to each other. Especially since we didn't get an objective statement we got Rand's estimate of their powers and Rand was pretty insecure around Asha'man.

 

Yes but Taim was a bit weaker before Rand maxed out. Like Taim would be on Ravhin's level. Logian was a bit weaker after many more battles and a few more forsaken. Thus Rand was stronger at that point.

 

Random thought, and perhaps it's been mentioned before and someone can point out where.

 

Why does Eggy think if Rand broke the seals now the DO would instantly be free? I mean, she has notes that state he was never actually free last time pre-seals, so where did she get this assumption that if Rand broke the seals now (How many are really left anyway, 3?) that the DO would be all like, I HATH ARRIVED. CHAOS DESTROY and it's over? I thought he'd have to break the bore open bigger once the seals were gone.

 

I dont think it is mentioned anywhere, unless its in the sheaf of notes that she has got out of the Kindle Ter'angle. And its just something thats not mentioned.

 

I meant mentioned anywhere in this thread. Like has it been discussed. It makes no sense to me.

 

Yah i dont think it has been mentioned in this thread ive read pretty much every post lol (boredom). It doesnt make a lot of sense to me either, that she would think that the Do would just pop out and bam end of everything. If that was the case then during the war or the power/shadow it would of been done already.

I was thinking the same thing while reading chapter 1. The whole Rand vs the Amyrlin on how to seal the Bore thing is a little propped up and made up out of nothing. But, I'm fine with it. Hahahaha!!!

[Vardar]

Yah i dont think it has been mentioned in this thread ive read pretty much every post lol (boredom). It doesnt make a lot of sense to me either, that she would think that the Do would just pop out and bam end of everything. If that was the case then during the war or the power/shadow it would of been done already.

 

Exactly! It's pretty flawed thinking. She has all the facts, or damn close too it, there has to be a reason she's saying Rand is wrong, especially because she knows he wasn't free at first, so what makes her think this time is different?

 

It really jumped right out at me, I reread her explaination twice because of that.

[Rufae]

What about Perrin taking note of the dreamspike-like wall at the BT? And Perrin and Rand deciding to go check out what is going on down there? Seems to me it won't just be Logain and his men fighting Taim. One of the Big 3 will be involved, either Rand or Perrin.

 

If Rand, with his new found uber-Randness, were to walk down the streets of the BT and hold Saidin at full strength, would it cause all the darkfrinds and dreadlords to go insane and claw their own eyes out?

[Vardar]

What about Perrin taking note of the dreamspike-like wall at the BT? And Perrin and Rand deciding to go check out what is going on down there? Seems to me it won't just be Logain and his men fighting Taim. One of the Big 3 will be involved, either Rand or Perrin.

 

If Rand, with his new found uber-Randness, were to walk down the streets of the BT and hold Saidin at full strength, would it cause all the darkfrinds and dreadlords to go insane and claw their own eyes out?

 

Doesn't he have to be channeling? But good point, you'd think that would have been mentioned!

 

And when did the tower get all Elayne;s toys? They just hacked her Terangreal off screen?

[he who comes with a bong]

What about Perrin taking note of the dreamspike-like wall at the BT? And Perrin and Rand deciding to go check out what is going on down there? Seems to me it won't just be Logain and his men fighting Taim. One of the Big 3 will be involved, either Rand or Perrin.

 

If Rand, with his new found uber-Randness, were to walk down the streets of the BT and hold Saidin at full strength, would it cause all the darkfrinds and dreadlords to go insane and claw their own eyes out?

 

I think Perrin will take out the Dreamspike on his own. After all he ranks up there in dreamwalking abilitys getting a lets say +25 from being a wolf brother. It might just be at the same time that Androl and company try to leave the Black Tower. They try to make a gateway and loe and behold it works again. Him and Pervera link and a huge gateway forms and they get all the good Asha'man out of the tower grounds.They meet up with Myrelle and company outside of the wall and form some type of plan to go back in and kick some ass.Giving us the Black Tower will be rent in fire and blood and sister walking the grounds.

 

Edited for the damn space bar lol

[he who comes with a bong]

What about Perrin taking note of the dreamspike-like wall at the BT? And Perrin and Rand deciding to go check out what is going on down there? Seems to me it won't just be Logain and his men fighting Taim. One of the Big 3 will be involved, either Rand or Perrin.

 

If Rand, with his new found uber-Randness, were to walk down the streets of the BT and hold Saidin at full strength, would it cause all the darkfrinds and dreadlords to go insane and claw their own eyes out?

 

Doesn't he have to be channeling? But good point, you'd think that would have been mentioned!

 

And when did the tower get all Elayne;s toys? They just hacked her Terangreal off screen?

 

I wondered that aswell. In month of buildup to the meeting at Merrelior a lot of things have seemed to be happening off screen quite a bit. So i wonder if they finally have all the other ones from Ruidiean aswell that Rand had stashed away in Cariehien.

[b3arz3rg3r]

What about Perrin taking note of the dreamspike-like wall at the BT? And Perrin and Rand deciding to go check out what is going on down there? Seems to me it won't just be Logain and his men fighting Taim. One of the Big 3 will be involved, either Rand or Perrin.

 

If Rand, with his new found uber-Randness, were to walk down the streets of the BT and hold Saidin at full strength, would it cause all the darkfrinds and dreadlords to go insane and claw their own eyes out?

 

What use would Perrin be at the BT? He can't channel he has no protection from channellers he'd be just ballast a channeller had to protect.

 

I think it'll be shown that Rand only has that effect on regular darkfriends and not on channellers who were turned or allowed themselves to get linked to the DO. Channellers are too valuable the DO would protect them from Rand's glow.

[he who comes with a bong]

What about Perrin taking note of the dreamspike-like wall at the BT? And Perrin and Rand deciding to go check out what is going on down there? Seems to me it won't just be Logain and his men fighting Taim. One of the Big 3 will be involved, either Rand or Perrin.

 

If Rand, with his new found uber-Randness, were to walk down the streets of the BT and hold Saidin at full strength, would it cause all the darkfrinds and dreadlords to go insane and claw their own eyes out?

 

What use would Perrin be at the BT? He can't channel he has no protection from channellers he'd be just ballast a channeller had to protect.

 

I think it'll be shown that Rand only has that effect on regular darkfriends and not on channellers who were turned or allowed themselves to get linked to the DO. Channellers are too valuable the DO would protect them from Rand's glow.

 

Other than taking the dreamspike out in the Dream. I really dont see any use for him at the BT either.

[b3arz3rg3r]

What about Perrin taking note of the dreamspike-like wall at the BT? And Perrin and Rand deciding to go check out what is going on down there? Seems to me it won't just be Logain and his men fighting Taim. One of the Big 3 will be involved, either Rand or Perrin.

 

If Rand, with his new found uber-Randness, were to walk down the streets of the BT and hold Saidin at full strength, would it cause all the darkfrinds and dreadlords to go insane and claw their own eyes out?

 

What use would Perrin be at the BT? He can't channel he has no protection from channellers he'd be just ballast a channeller had to protect.

 

I think it'll be shown that Rand only has that effect on regular darkfriends and not on channellers who were turned or allowed themselves to get linked to the DO. Channellers are too valuable the DO would protect them from Rand's glow.

 

Other than taking the dreamspike out in the Dream. I really dont see any use for him at the BT either.

 

It's rather unlikely that will happen in my opinion. It's a clear case of been there done that. A redux of Perrin running around with a dreamspike and throwing it into lava is unnecessary.

Besides I don't think it is necessary for the Dreamspike to be moved. I could see the good Asha'man win and the shadow still keeping possession of the grounds. Afterall there is this army of trollocs right next to the BT and I doubt the Asha'man could stand against that on top of dealing with Taim's faction and Demandred.

[hjustinpace]

Rand's handling of the BT was irrational. But it was also very, very human. And in keeping with Rand's (questionable) leadership style--ignore problems that you don't want to deal with and hope they go away.

[MasterAblar]

I believe what Egwene is worried about is that the Dark One's influence will increase when the seals are broken, not that he'll be released completely.

 

Like Androl said even with the Aes Sedai outside the BT, they don't stand any chance against Taim and his men, because there's a large amount of Ashaman who are not aware that Taim is a darkfriend. Aes Sedai getting involved is more likely to turn them against Androl and Logain's men. Androl has to try to convince all the neutral Ashaman at the BT to oppose Taim all the while hoping Logain returns, perhaps with the Ashaman who are already out of the BT, none of which are darkfriends.

 

Rand isn't defined by his role as Asha'man. He's the Dragon Reborn that's far more than a mere Asha'man and whether Rand survives or not I don't think he'll have anything to do with them after the LB. The Asha'man will have to fend for themselves.

 

Yeah, but Rand might try to justify his involvement by claiming to be an Ashaman. He definitely said he was going to deal with the BT in ToM. It could be he just organises them all and doesn't take part in the actual fighting, letting Logain lead instead. I find it hard to believe that he won't have any part whatsoever though.

[b3arz3rg3r]

Rand isn't defined by his role as Asha'man. He's the Dragon Reborn that's far more than a mere Asha'man and whether Rand survives or not I don't think he'll have anything to do with them after the LB. The Asha'man will have to fend for themselves.

 

Yeah, but Rand might try to justify his involvement by claiming to be an Ashaman. He definitely said he was going to deal with the BT in ToM. It could be he just organises them all and doesn't take part in the actual fighting, letting Logain lead instead. I find it hard to believe that he won't have any part whatsoever though.

 

My point is that the Asha'man have to find the strength to exist by themselves. Right now they are basically an extension of the will of the DR, but what happens after the LB. If Rand is dead or gone will they fall apart? Will they get subjugated and absorbed by the AS, who would be only too willing? Or will they continue to exist as an independant and united organisation? And what will they stand for? Defend, guard, protect is a catchy slogan but what will it mean after the LB? The Asha'man will have to find the answers to those questions and for that they have to go through this trial with as little outside interference as possible and I do consider Rand an outside interference in this case. Logain, Androl, Flinn and Narishma are the ones who in my opinion will decide the future of the Asha'man and they have to show themselves worthy of leading the Asha'man.

[MasterAblar]

Rand isn't defined by his role as Asha'man. He's the Dragon Reborn that's far more than a mere Asha'man and whether Rand survives or not I don't think he'll have anything to do with them after the LB. The Asha'man will have to fend for themselves.

 

Yeah, but Rand might try to justify his involvement by claiming to be an Ashaman. He definitely said he was going to deal with the BT in ToM. It could be he just organises them all and doesn't take part in the actual fighting, letting Logain lead instead. I find it hard to believe that he won't have any part whatsoever though.

 

My point is that the Asha'man have to find the strength to exist by themselves. Right now they are basically an extension of the will of the DR, but what happens after the LB. If Rand is dead or gone will they fall apart? Will they get subjugated and absorbed by the AS, who would be only too willing? Or will they continue to exist as an independant and united organisation? And what will they stand for? Defend, guard, protect is a catchy slogan but what will it mean after the LB? The Asha'man will have to find the answers to those questions and for that they have to go through this trial with as little outside interference as possible and I do consider Rand an outside interference in this case. Logain, Androl, Flinn and Narishma are the ones who in my opinion will decide the future of the Asha'man and they have to show themselves worthy of leading the Asha'man.

 

I agree with that, I don't think Rand is going to take a part. I just don't thing he's going to ignore the BT. He may not go himself but I can see him sending Ashaman back to the BT under Logain (whenever he decides to show up), or another high ranked Ashaman. He's already sent Naeff, who's going to have to report back eventually. Basically I don't think Androl or Logain is suddenly going to show up and tell Rand they dealt with the whole BT problem already, and it's all good. That said I fully agree that the BT need to deal with their own darkfriend infestation on their own with as little outside interference as possible.

[MountaineerWV]

Rand isn't defined by his role as Asha'man. He's the Dragon Reborn that's far more than a mere Asha'man and whether Rand survives or not I don't think he'll have anything to do with them after the LB. The Asha'man will have to fend for themselves.

 

Yeah, but Rand might try to justify his involvement by claiming to be an Ashaman. He definitely said he was going to deal with the BT in ToM. It could be he just organises them all and doesn't take part in the actual fighting, letting Logain lead instead. I find it hard to believe that he won't have any part whatsoever though.

 

My point is that the Asha'man have to find the strength to exist by themselves. Right now they are basically an extension of the will of the DR, but what happens after the LB. If Rand is dead or gone will they fall apart? Will they get subjugated and absorbed by the AS, who would be only too willing? Or will they continue to exist as an independant and united organisation? And what will they stand for? Defend, guard, protect is a catchy slogan but what will it mean after the LB? The Asha'man will have to find the answers to those questions and for that they have to go through this trial with as little outside interference as possible and I do consider Rand an outside interference in this case. Logain, Androl, Flinn and Narishma are the ones who in my opinion will decide the future of the Asha'man and they have to show themselves worthy of leading the Asha'man.

 

You can apply that to the White Tower as well.

 

What is their purpose going to be after the DO is sealed away? It won't be to guard against the Shadow.

 

Whatever purpose they find, it will most likely be the same for the WT and the BT.

[Neophyte]

 

You can apply that to the White Tower as well.

 

What is their purpose going to be after the DO is sealed away? It won't be to guard against the Shadow.

 

Whatever purpose they find, it will most likely be the same for the WT and the BT.

 

The optimist in me want to say that they are supposed to be Aes Sedai - Servants of All. There will plenty of service to be done in rebuilding the world after Tarmon Gai'don. But they'll probably become the focus of resistance to the Seanchan.

[b3arz3rg3r]

Rand isn't defined by his role as Asha'man. He's the Dragon Reborn that's far more than a mere Asha'man and whether Rand survives or not I don't think he'll have anything to do with them after the LB. The Asha'man will have to fend for themselves.

 

Yeah, but Rand might try to justify his involvement by claiming to be an Ashaman. He definitely said he was going to deal with the BT in ToM. It could be he just organises them all and doesn't take part in the actual fighting, letting Logain lead instead. I find it hard to believe that he won't have any part whatsoever though.

 

My point is that the Asha'man have to find the strength to exist by themselves. Right now they are basically an extension of the will of the DR, but what happens after the LB. If Rand is dead or gone will they fall apart? Will they get subjugated and absorbed by the AS, who would be only too willing? Or will they continue to exist as an independant and united organisation? And what will they stand for? Defend, guard, protect is a catchy slogan but what will it mean after the LB? The Asha'man will have to find the answers to those questions and for that they have to go through this trial with as little outside interference as possible and I do consider Rand an outside interference in this case. Logain, Androl, Flinn and Narishma are the ones who in my opinion will decide the future of the Asha'man and they have to show themselves worthy of leading the Asha'man.

 

You can apply that to the White Tower as well.

 

What is their purpose going to be after the DO is sealed away? It won't be to guard against the Shadow.

 

Whatever purpose they find, it will most likely be the same for the WT and the BT.

 

The WT has existed for over 2000 years and there were female AS since the AOL. The AS have a long history and that gives them inertia, even without a brand new goal they'll continue to exist. Not to stand watch against the Shadow perhaps, but they'll continue to meddle with and temper the affairs of the world even if no one wants them to. The Asha'man have barely existed for a year. The situations are clearly different.

 

 

You can apply that to the White Tower as well.

 

What is their purpose going to be after the DO is sealed away? It won't be to guard against the Shadow.

 

Whatever purpose they find, it will most likely be the same for the WT and the BT.

 

The optimist in me want to say that they are supposed to be Aes Sedai - Servants of All. There will plenty of service to be done in rebuilding the world after Tarmon Gai'don. But they'll probably become the focus of resistance to the Seanchan.

 

Unlikely. Even without the outrigger novels we can be pretty sure that Tuon won't die as she did in the future Avi saw and with Mat at her side there is little doubt that eventually there'll be a change in the Seanchan system and they'll stop leashing channellers. And once they do there's really nothing the AS can oppose. I would expect the Seanchan to create their own school of channellers separate from the WT which trains channellers loyal to the empress and not to the tower. But that won't be all that different from the Kin, the Windfinders and the Aiel so nothing the WT can oppose.

[thisguy]

There's the writing about the DR in either a prologue or epilogue and the writer is from Greater Tar Valon.

 

I think that TV will only grow with both men and women represented.

 

They'll probably gain in power and in knowledge and make more power driven technology.

[Neophyte]

Unlikely. Even without the outrigger novels we can be pretty sure that Tuon won't die as she did in the future Avi saw and with Mat at her side there is little doubt that eventually there'll be a change in the Seanchan system and they'll stop leashing channellers. And once they do there's really nothing the AS can oppose. I would expect the Seanchan to create their own school of channellers separate from the WT which trains channellers loyal to the empress and not to the tower. But that won't be all that different from the Kin, the Windfinders and the Aiel so nothing the WT can oppose.

 

Any Seanchan school of channelers would be extremely different from the Aes Sedai. Even if they do give up the a'dam (which I don't think is nearly the given that you seem to think it is) their channelers will not be bound by the Three Oaths - they will be weapons in a way that the Aes Sedai cannot be. Unless, of course, the Aes Sedai give up or alter the Oaths.

 

The Kin, Windfinders, and Wise Ones were never weapons in their respective cultures, and both historically either admired or feared the Aes Sedai. Whatever group of channelers emerges in Seanchan will be very much willing to kill for the Empress, and will not be intimidated at all by the Aes Sedai. Plus, the Seanchan will always have a larger population pool to draw from, and thus have a numbers advantage, even over the White Tower, Kin, Wise Ones, and Sea Folk combined.

 

The interesting thing will be how the Seanchan adapt to males channeling the Power. The Asha'man could make the difference, if the Seanchan are slow to adapt.

 

 

There's the writing about the DR in either a prologue or epilogue and the writer is from Greater Tar Valon.

 

I think that TV will only grow with both men and women represented.

 

They'll probably gain in power and in knowledge and make more power driven technology.

 

It is in the prologue to Lord of Chaos, and it is called "Great Aravalon." The quote is from a children's rhyme.

 

If the White Tower does try to incorporate the Asha'man in some way, that will be to their great advantage.

[thisguy]

Unlikely. Even without the outrigger novels we can be pretty sure that Tuon won't die as she did in the future Avi saw and with Mat at her side there is little doubt that eventually there'll be a change in the Seanchan system and they'll stop leashing channellers. And once they do there's really nothing the AS can oppose. I would expect the Seanchan to create their own school of channellers separate from the WT which trains channellers loyal to the empress and not to the tower. But that won't be all that different from the Kin, the Windfinders and the Aiel so nothing the WT can oppose.

 

Any Seanchan school of channelers would be extremely different from the Aes Sedai. Even if they do give up the a'dam (which I don't think is nearly the given that you seem to think it is) their channelers will not be bound by the Three Oaths - they will be weapons in a way that the Aes Sedai cannot be. Unless, of course, the Aes Sedai give up or alter the Oaths.

 

The Kin, Windfinders, and Wise Ones were never weapons in their respective cultures, and both historically either admired or feared the Aes Sedai. Whatever group of channelers emerges in Seanchan will be very much willing to kill for the Empress, and will not be intimidated at all by the Aes Sedai. Plus, the Seanchan will always have a larger population pool to draw from, and thus have a numbers advantage, even over the White Tower, Kin, Wise Ones, and Sea Folk combined.

 

The interesting thing will be how the Seanchan adapt to males channeling the Power. The Asha'man could make the difference, if the Seanchan are slow to adapt.

 

 

There's the writing about the DR in either a prologue or epilogue and the writer is from Greater Tar Valon.

 

I think that TV will only grow with both men and women represented.

 

They'll probably gain in power and in knowledge and make more power driven technology.

 

It is in the prologue to Lord of Chaos, and it is called "Great Aravalon." The quote is from a children's rhyme.

 

If the White Tower does try to incorporate the Asha'man in some way, that will be to their great advantage.

In approaching the Golden Age the two groups will get closer and closer until their pinnacle when they will start separating again.

[b3arz3rg3r]

There's the writing about the DR in either a prologue or epilogue and the writer is from Greater Tar Valon.

 

I think that TV will only grow with both men and women represented.

 

They'll probably gain in power and in knowledge and make more power driven technology.

 

True, if women and men united in TV that would be the case.

 

But unless there's some major ta'veren work after the LB I don't think that'll happen too quickly. The problems are just too big. Starting with how much say do women and men have. I don't see the women just accept the men as equals. A hall half made up of men, Logain with powers equal to Egwene's, giving the men equal access to all those objects of power the WT has. No way are the women going to accept that quickly. And then there's also the matter of ajah. Green and red both will basically lose the reason for their existence after the LB. Even without the Asha'man in the mix that will unsettle the Aes Sedai for years. New ajahs might get founded and old ajah get rebranded and all of that will affect the make up of the Hall.And with the men founding their own separate ajahs who knows it'll be total chaos. And how do men and women settle the social pecking order? The AS decide by strength in the power but since men are on average significantly stronger they'll hardly accept that when it comes to Asha'man.

 

Then from the male side, why would the men want to accept the three oaths? It's a severe restriction and it cuts their life expectancy in half. The Asha'man don't need the WT. Every man who can channel can easily make enough money to live with his ability and as a separate organisation they would have it even easier. Why would they want to accept the rules and regulations of the women? What would the Asha'man get in return for those sacrifices? To be allowed to call themselves Aes Sedai? Why would they want that. They'll have their own name and will be allowed to fill it with meaning themselves.

 

Especially now that the WT is openly accepting separate channeller organisations the Asha'man would see even less need to join up with the women. And if men and women remain separate organisations- though strongly connected since men and women will continue to bind each other- politically they might end up neutralizing each other to a large extent. Which is in my opinion a good thing the WT has far too much influence on thrones and nations. They need a counterweight.

[thisguy]

Rand has said there will be another breaking. I'm pretty sure of it. I think a lot of their issues will fly out the window upon their rebuilding.

 

I remember Birgitte mentioning how she helped in the founding of the WT. The wheel's at a place of destruction and change and will eventually turn into a place of construction and change and then even out for a while.

[b3arz3rg3r]

Rand has said there will be another breaking. I'm pretty sure of it. I think a lot of their issues will fly out the window upon their rebuilding.

 

I remember Birgitte mentioning how she helped in the founding of the WT. The wheel's at a place of destruction and change and will eventually turn into a place of construction and change and then even out for a while.

 

We'll see. Or rather we won't see. All of this will most likely end up unresolved which will frustrate us to the final days of our lives unless Harriett does release RJ outline for the future at some point.