Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Mazrim Taim aka "Guaire Amalason"


Recommended Posts

So after reading the prologue to AMoL, I am even more convinced that Taim is in fact the false dragon formerly known as Guaire Amalason and I believe from the very beginning was a protege of Ishamael. Amalason was the most powerful of the false dragons, and it was he who during the Second War of the Dragon conquered virtually all of the westlands with the exception of Tear and Tar Valon. More is known about Amalason and his actions during the Second War of the Dragon, than any of the lives of the other false dragons. It is my belief that Amalason was a darkfriend and false dragon set up and mentored by Ishamael and is in fact presntly known as Mazrim Taim. Lets go through my rational.

 

- knowledge - Taim has an advanced knowledge of weaving Saidin, much more so than someone with no master to teach him would be expected to know. As a result of the prologue we can deduct, that Taim knows that by channeling through 13 myrddraal, anyone can be turned evil. This is information that even some Aes Sedai aren't aware of. Likewise, Amalason was skilled in the use of Saidin, killing and stilling several Aes Sedai, he was also someone who was said to have in depth knowledge of the Prophecies of the Dragon (WoT wiki) possibly gaining this knowledge by Ishamael.

 

- language usage- When referring to the Aiel, he calls them "the so called Aiel" making a reference to the days when the Aiel were pacifists. Knowledge that only clan chiefs, wise ones, and forsaken are privy to. He also does not use the word stilling when refer to a man being cut off from Saidin, but rather he uses the word "severing" a word only used in all of WoT by none but the forsaken. From these and other examples we can deduce that Taim is like the forsaken, very old himself, or has spent extensive time around a forsaken who uses ancient vocabulary.

 

-Time - This is the tricky part bc Ishamael was at times bound in Shayol Ghoul and other times loose on the earth, so for my theory to be correct, Ishamael would need to have been loose at the same time Guaire Amalason lived and came to power. Luckily, we can deduce that in fact he was. In the War of the Second Dragon, it was Artur Hawkwing that finally defeated Amalason and we later learn Hawkwing's High Councilor Jalwin Moerad was in fact none other than Ishamael in disguise. It was he that poisoned Hawkwing against the Aes Sedai. The forasken love to scheme and it is next to impossible to believe that if Ishamael was loose at that time, that he played no part in Amalason bringing chaos to the world and conquering nearly all of the westlands. Taim also has not gone mad from channeling Saidin, given that he has been channeling for some time according to him, the only way he wouldn't have gone mad was if he had the dark ones protection.

 

-miraculous rescue- After Taim was captured by Aes Sedai, his Aes Sedai captors were mysteriously killed and Taim escaped. We can therefore conclude that he was already a dark friend having received aid from some powerful individual that was able to overcome his six Aes Sedai captors. I believe a similar situation occurred when Amalason was captured and brought to the White Tower. As Amalason's and Hawkwing's troops fought in the streets of Tar Valon, Amalason was rescued by Ishamael in the chaos and therefore not stilled. Ishamael has a history of rescuing those under his command, having rescued Lanfear for example.

 

-age- after being rescued by Ishamael, I believe that Amalason was put into a stasis box until Ishamael thought it prudent to release him. It is well known that he doesn't take failure lightly. Only this could explain Taim's current youthful appearance because even though channeling can slow the process, not to the point of the thousand year in between Hawkwing's time and AMoL. It is plausible that Ishamael had access to a stasis box, because in Towers of Midnight there is a scene where Graendal is taken to a room that is literally filled with Ter'angreal and Angreal and given a dream spike. It is plausible that during the periods in which he was loose, Ishamael acquired a stasis box.

 

-clothing- Taim is obviously Moridin's follower. Moridin is the one who introduces him the rest of the forsaken. Taim always wear's black and red (Moridin's colors), it is also the colors that Moridin forces Cyndane and Moghedien to wear in their servitude. On Taim's sleeves are dragons in mocking of the dragon reborn.

 

 

Taim hates Rand, but why? Because Rand's success reminds him of what almost once was. Amalason conquered nearly all of the westlands and if it weren't for Hawkwing, he may have very well succeeded in defeating Tar Valon and declaring himself the dragon. All-in-all all these combined lead me to believe Taim and Amalason are one. If you read a WoT with these things in mind, you might just be surprised by what you find.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That was a thousand years before this story takes place; even an extremly powerful Aes Sedai only lives for maybe 5 or 6 centuries. Out the outside, 7. Unless you count the Forsaken, thats way outside the lifespan of anyone in Randland, and they were locked in a place where time has no meaning for 3000 years, so it's not like they aged. I dont know about this one.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Taim is and always was Taim. He could have been trained by Ishmael, without some crazy theory that he's been around for over 1000 years. However, he seemed more familiar to Demandred, he could have been Demandred's protege. Did it ever specificaly state when demandred broke free?

Link to post
Share on other sites

The timing is way off for Amalasan's defeat and Ishamael's appearance as Moerad. Those events are separated by almost Hawkwing's entire life - some 60 years or so. It is extremely unlikely that Ishamael had been cycled out of his prison at the time of Amalasan's rise and fall.

 

For that reason, as well as the fact that it is totally unnecessary for Taim to be Amalasan to fit everything else you've mentioned, this theory is extraordinarily unlikely.

 

We're not even sure that humans can survive in stasis boxes.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I've never actually heard this theory before but it's interesting. You made some very good connections I think.

The stasis boxes are very unique as it can hold a gholam but I don't know it if can sustain human life. That would be

the only hole in the theory but I don't want to be discouraging. There is no evidence of human life not being sustained

within a stasis box but it's kind of one those things....it cannot be proved or disproved. *shrugs*

Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably a more complicated history then is actually needed for a minor character like Taim.

 

For that, Taim will balefire you.

 

It crossed my mind before that Taim could have been a past False Dragon, be it Guaire Amalasan, Raolin Darksbane, Yurian Stonebow, or another.

 

How? Easily. He served the Great Lord, recruited by Ishamael. When he died, his soul would have been captured. Then, when the seals weakened, the Great Lord would have brought him back in a new body.

 

Of course, since apparently the seals only weakened enough for Him to be able to ressurect Aginor and Balthamel in Lord of Chaos, the most likely scenario is that Taim is Taim.

 

Since some "these primitives" have proven time and again to be a match in power for the Chosen, it stands to reason that some would work for the Shadow instead of against it.

Edited by Morlun
Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think Ishamael could have been free long enough to both set up Amalasan, and then take down Hawkwing at the end of his life.

 

Besides I think Logain is Guaire Amalasan reborn. :wink:

 

Also, how does a False Dragon end up with a name like Darksbane? False Dragons' reputations don't exactly lend towards those kind of names.

Edited by Master Ablar
Link to post
Share on other sites

You put a lot of thought into this......But........ Why does a minor character have to go through that kind of a background check to make it into our story? This was well thought, but I think Taim is just Taim.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Several people have mentioned that Taim is just Taim and is just a "minor" character. Do you really think that someone with so much mystery surrounding them, someone who has taken control of one of the most powerful factions in all of WoT the Black Tower, someone who has turned hundreds of the most powerful of the Black Tower's initiates to the dark, and someone who was introduced as a Forsaken by none other then Moridin himself.....is really JUST a minor character????

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just as a side note? With all of the talk about Demandred and what he is doing, does anyone remember how Semirhage, Graendal, and Demandred had an alliance with each other? I think it is very convenient that Semirhage is the one that killed all the Seanchan royal family and brought chaos to that side of the world. Graendal mentioned that two of her pretties were infact none other the the Queen and King from Shara and so it was she that brought chaos to Shara. It would make sense that Demandred has been involved in the only other land outside of westland that we know of......the Isle of Madmen.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Doesn't anyone find it more than a coincidence that Asmodean dies at the end of tFoH, then Taim (a well versed channeler) is revealed in the following book LoC?

 

It's just a little beyond me that a regular channeler of that age - with no teacher - could learn things like the testing method for new recruits.

 

Edit - damn iPad auto correct

Edited by Copperfox
Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing I want to point out. Ishmael was never bound with the others. How he escaped that fate is unknown but book 1 prologue is indisputable proof of this. While I still disagree with the double false dragon theory of Taim, I still wanted to point out the incorrect arguments.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Doesn't anyone find it more than a coincidence that Asmodean dies at the end of tFoH, then Taim (a well versed channeler) is revealed in the following book LoC?

 

It's just a little beyond me that a regular channeler of that age - with no teacher - could learn things like the testing method for new recruits.

 

Edit - damn iPad auto correct

 

Taim is not Asmodean, Taim is to strong to be Asmodean, and we were told Asmodean is gone fore good.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am probably far off, but I think Demandred was an instigator in the Seanchan rebellion.

How that affects whats going on in Randland I am not sure.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am probably far off, but I think Demandred was an instigator in the Seanchan rebellion.

How that affects whats going on in Randland I am not sure.

 

Wouldn't you say that was Semi? She was the one with a base of operations there and also took care of the royal family which kicked things off.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Semi instigated the Seanchan stuff, what I want to know is who is driving Galgan now? Galgan was loyal back when Suroth was still trying to run things.

 

Galgan may well still be quite loyal. The High Blood play ... games, for lack of a better word ... with people; sending incompetent assassins isn't necessarily disloyal in the Seanchan High Blood People Are Pawns Playbook.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Semi instigated the Seanchan stuff, what I want to know is who is driving Galgan now? Galgan was loyal back when Suroth was still trying to run things.

 

Galgan may well still be quite loyal. The High Blood play ... games, for lack of a better word ... with people; sending incompetent assassins isn't necessarily disloyal in the Seanchan High Blood People Are Pawns Playbook.

 

That's a pretty big assumption. Given the Seanchans belief in honor and respect/reverence towards their betters, I think sending assassins after the Empress is a bit too forward and offensive to be tolerated whatsoever.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Semi instigated the Seanchan stuff, what I want to know is who is driving Galgan now? Galgan was loyal back when Suroth was still trying to run things.

 

Galgan may well still be quite loyal. The High Blood play ... games, for lack of a better word ... with people; sending incompetent assassins isn't necessarily disloyal in the Seanchan High Blood People Are Pawns Playbook.

 

That's a pretty big assumption. Given the Seanchans belief in honor and respect/reverence towards their betters, I think sending assassins after the Empress is a bit too forward and offensive to be tolerated whatsoever.

 

Um .. Fortuona wonders to herself if Mat will actually be loyal - as in like "weird, I wonder what it will be like to have a loyal Prince of the Ravens?" She seems to expect Galgan to try something.

 

The commoners among the Seanchan would never dream of doing anything to the Empress, or any of the Blood really. But the Blood, and especially the High Blood, plot to kill each other all the time. The tricky part is the in between stuff, the posturing. Galgan isn't really trying to kill her - it appears to be common knowledge (or James' Jame's special knowledge) that the assassins aren't intended to succeed. Galgan is just playing politics.

 

That doesn't mean he might not be dangerous. It just means that he doesn't appear to be actively disloyal at the moment. Mat, however, doesn't seem aware of that (for obvious reasons).

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...