Dashiva

[Dagon Thyne]

What gave it away for me was the scene in Path of Daggers where he undergoes a complete personality change and starts to lecture Rand on the "strangeness" of Saidin (during Rand's campaign against the Seanchan in Altara). He's suddenly a different person altogether, angry and pedantic instead of his typical aloof and apathetic self, which made me think the whole "guy with his head in the clouds" thing was a front. The fact that we knew Aginor was in his new body trying to position himself made him the prime suspect.

Especially because after that Rand mentions the Forsaken and Dashiva flinches. The Ashaman dont flinch from anything. They watch others die or go mad all the time.

 

To be fair, watching a person die and dealing with the Forsaken, people kids are raised to fear are two different things. I mean, look at how many of the younger Aes Sedai still get a little jumpy when the BA is mentioned. Flinching at the mentioning of the forsaken is not really a clear sign. Even a battle hardened veteran who has killed or watched others die most of his life could get a little edgy when you mention them.

[YourNewDragonAndGod]

What gave it away for me was the scene in Path of Daggers where he undergoes a complete personality change and starts to lecture Rand on the "strangeness" of Saidin (during Rand's campaign against the Seanchan in Altara). He's suddenly a different person altogether, angry and pedantic instead of his typical aloof and apathetic self, which made me think the whole "guy with his head in the clouds" thing was a front. The fact that we knew Aginor was in his new body trying to position himself made him the prime suspect.

Especially because after that Rand mentions the Forsaken and Dashiva flinches. The Ashaman dont flinch from anything. They watch others die or go mad all the time.

 

To be fair, watching a person die and dealing with the Forsaken, people kids are raised to fear are two different things. I mean, look at how many of the younger Aes Sedai still get a little jumpy when the BA is mentioned. Flinching at the mentioning of the forsaken is not really a clear sign. Even a battle hardened veteran who has killed or watched others die most of his life could get a little edgy when you mention them.

That's how I read it the first time. But on rereads you notice the subtleties. I didnt figure out that Dashiva was O'sangar until they told us. I wasnt even suspicious of him.

[Danjaman]

There are two things that bug me about Osan'Gar:

 

(1. Why was he completely useless? I know he did much for the shadow, but in the main series, he's only slightly a small step up from Bel'al. I'm not expected a realistic answer, but it kind of irks me that he did nothing, though he was so close to Rand so frequently, and though he had the Black Tower at his fingertips.

 

(2. Just how crazy was he? In aCoS, Perrin smells madness from him. I don't think anyone could fabricate their own smell. Actually, it kind of makes sense for him to be crazy - he was a loony scientist in the first place, he might have post-death-stress, and the nature of his death might have affected his channelling. Rand cut the white cord - which severed his connection to the Eye - and he burned himself up (if he burned himself out, he would not be able to channel upon revival). However, if the black cord was cut, then his connection to the DO would be severed, and he would feel the taint?

 

It's a bit of a stretch, but what do you guys think?

[MarkDiLillo]

I never caught on until it was revealed. I would be surprised if anyone caught on before then honestly. Except for maybe a few hardcore theory nerds who were actively searching.

[MarkDiLillo]

There are two things that bug me about Osan'Gar:

 

(1. Why was he completely useless? I know he did much for the shadow, but in the main series, he's only slightly a small step up from Bel'al. I'm not expected a realistic answer, but it kind of irks me that he did nothing, though he was so close to Rand so frequently, and though he had the Black Tower at his fingertips.

 

(2. Just how crazy was he? In aCoS, Perrin smells madness from him. I don't think anyone could fabricate their own smell. Actually, it kind of makes sense for him to be crazy - he was a loony scientist in the first place, he might have post-death-stress, and the nature of his death might have affected his channelling. Rand cut the white cord - which severed his connection to the Eye - and he burned himself up (if he burned himself out, he would not be able to channel upon revival). However, if the black cord was cut, then his connection to the DO would be severed, and he would feel the taint?

 

It's a bit of a stretch, but what do you guys think?

 

He was mostly entirely useless. Imagine a phd asian scientist today and throw him back into ancient roman times. Not much we could accomplish of much use really.

 

I tend to believe his insanity was a result of being one of those extreme geniuses that border insane. Not really insanity, but just so completely smart in their own tiny sphere that they are borderline stupid in other areas. To relatively simple people from WoT (like Perrin) this could smell like madness? Idk, thats how I interpreted it.

[yoniy0]

Mark, I'm not sure why it's crucial for us to classify those more astute than us as nerds, and I'm equally confused by the role you assigned to the hypothetical scientist's race. Would a black Ph.D. be more productive in that situation? An Irishman? A Jew? Arab?

[MarkDiLillo]

Dont think I said it was crucial at all yon. I'm a little confused as to why you're feigning ignorance to start an argument showing your distaste for using harmless stereotypes though. You could have just said as much in plain english if you are that offended.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Mark D

[Suttree]

I never caught on until it was revealed. I would be surprised if anyone caught on before then honestly. Except for maybe a few hardcore theory nerds who were actively searching.

 

It was pretty obviousus after the Damona Campaign. I wouldn't say flashing arrows but it certainly didn't take one to be a HCFF in order to figure it out.

[MarkDiLillo]

I never caught on until it was revealed. I would be surprised if anyone caught on before then honestly. Except for maybe a few hardcore theory nerds who were actively searching.

 

It was pretty obviousus after the Damona Campaign. I wouldn't say flashing arrows but it certainly didn't take one to be a HCFF in order to figure it out.

 

Ya it probably was obvious. I guess it's just that a lot of people dont read through the series trying to play detective and instead are focusing on devouring the next page as fast as possible. At least that's how I tend to read my first time through. I usually don't pick up on all of those clues unless they are direct enough to make it obvious.

 

If someone is actively searching for Osan'gar I would imagine that it could be very simple to figure out that Dashiva was a prime candidate. There were a lot of clues.

[_Lord Of The Morning_]

To add the the points previously stated; dashiva was shown to be fluent in the old tongue (crown of swords I think) - something exceedingly rare in the third age and reserved to scholars NOT farmers...

also been wondering if Rand ever actually realises that dashiva was forsaken...?