Trollocs and Myrddraal, how are they made?

[Steven Holland]

I believe there isn't a lot of reference to this in the books, so this may be more personal opinion but; how are Trolloc's made, and more importantly, how are they continuing to be made?

 

If I remember, Trolloc's were first created by Channeller's, mixing human and animal stock. But how are they still being made? Are there Channeller's still making them, or is the Dark One doing it? I understand that a Myrddraal is Trolloc offspring, that means that Trollocs have the ability to mate, but I'm not sure i can imagine young Trollocs running around in the blight learning to kill

 

Just an idle thought, but interesting to see what people think

[Kamin_Majere]

magic

 

But no after they were created they had the ability to breed. Since all of the trollocs have been male and they are a violent and brutal "society" i'm assuming that means they tend to keep the females of the species simply for breeding stock. Probably one of the largest inter clan fights is over female populations, as the more females a clan has the more powerful that clan is.

[TommyRocker]

I don't think they are taught to kill. I've never seen any evidence that trollocs are taught or trained much in any way. They learn to communicate by nature of being in a group, otherwise I think it's all mostly just instinct. They aren't skilled fighters. Any average soldier is more than a match for a trolloc, as long as his fear doesn't win. Trollocs only have brute strength and fear on their side, and heightened senses in the right circumstances. As was mentioned, the females are breeders and not much else. I think the young are probably lumped together and treated pretty brutally. I don't think trollocs would show much loyalty or respect to kin or young. They bully those smaller or weaker, including the young, until they are old enough to defend themselves (serve the bigger ones food, or BE food?). I would assume there is an EXTREMELY high mortality rate, though with the release of the forsaken and increased organization this has probably lessened. Also, the animal side probably means they grow up a lot faster than humans. Maybe able to walk the first day/week, and maturing within a few years?

 

If anyone has ever read the Barsoom books, maybe a MUCH more brutal and more primitive version of the green men, where young who can't keep themselves alive are just considered too weak (and food, in this case)

[nolirion]

Aginor sacrificed about 50 millions people , according to Wot wiki , to create the Trolloc . He mixed DNA of human and animal in horrific experiment . There is male and female , only the male fight , female are breeding machine , thx for the mental image by the way .

They are construct of the one power and perhaps the Tp was used to make them obey the DO , sometime a Trolloc will "make" Myrddraal , Aginor didn't know why and many of the ability of Myrddraal are still unexplained .

While the Trolloc where a failed experiment , they are good for nothing but canon folder , Myrddraal are a great tool of the Do many of their power stemming from him .

 

TommyRocker an average soldier is not a match for a trolloc , trolloc are quite the beast , taller and larger than many , to an inexperienced soldier they would be quite usefull .

I wonder if the female one are similar to the broodmother of Dragon Age .

[Finnssss22]

Originally, all attempts by Aginor to create Trollocs using human DNA and the One power failed.

It wasn't until he added the True power into the mix that he succeeded.

There are female Trollocs but they are not much more than breeding factories.

The Myrddraal were pure accidents that are sometimes born in with a litter of Trollocs. Aginor, to this day, still doesn't know how it happened or have a clue how they can do what they do despite heavy experimentation.

[TommyRocker]

TommyRocker an average soldier is not a match for a trolloc , trolloc are quite the beast , taller and larger than many , to an inexperienced soldier they would be quite usefull .

I wonder if the female one are similar to the broodmother of Dragon Age .

 

i disagree. As I stated, they are stronger and bigger but they are unskilled and cowardly. It has been shown many times that normal soldiers don't have any more trouble with them than with regular men, so long as they don't panic. Even Alsbet Luhhan and the women of Emonds Field had no trouble dispatching them quickly. It mostly takes guts. Trollocs win by brute force and strength of numbers, not skill.

[Durinax]

TommyRocker an average soldier is not a match for a trolloc , trolloc are quite the beast , taller and larger than many , to an inexperienced soldier they would be quite usefull .

I wonder if the female one are similar to the broodmother of Dragon Age .

 

i disagree. As I stated, they are stronger and bigger but they are unskilled and cowardly. It has been shown many times that normal soldiers don't have any more trouble with them than with regular men, so long as they don't panic. Even Alsbet Luhhan and the women of Emonds Field had no trouble dispatching them quickly. It mostly takes guts. Trollocs win by brute force and strength of numbers, not skill.

moral is quite important in any battle.

 

but I think that they are a little more than equivolent to an average soldier, or else the borderlands would have no trouble holding back the shadow

[Steven Holland]

Thanks for the replies everyone

 

I assumed that there where females (obviously lol) but i kinda thought they were as uncontrolled and brutal as the males and fought with them, i never considered they could be nothing but breeding machines.

 

As for the Trolloc Vs Soldier discussion, i think that the Trollocs inability to think beyond killing and eating gives them a large disadvantage over a trained soldier. I think that fear of them can definitely overcome someone fighting them, but with adrenaline pumping through you, it can give anyone the strength and courage to best a Trolloc. More than anything though, i think luck is probably the major factor in survival in that situation

 

Nolirion - I agree, the mental image of Trolloc's breeding is not a pleasant one

[Barid Bel Medar]

Aginor planned to create the perfect solider, mixing the human shape (for wielding weapons etc..) and the natural prowess of beasts.

 

Trollocs were not a very good result. They were strong, brutal and obedient to higher power, but lacked disipline, tacticalRj ability and brains to do any actual thinking about war.

 

Thus, he began experimenting again, and somehow, accidently, Trollocs create Myrddraal (I believe it was the Dark One who did it, unbeknownst to Aginor) which were a more perfected kind of Shadowspawn. The more human throwbacks of Trollocs.

 

As stated already, RJ confirmed that females do nothing but act as breeding machines, and it suggests that huge litters are born, and they are pregnant almost constantly.

 

Anyway, the Trolloc v Solider debate, it is really impossible to tell.

 

1 v 1, If the soldier has any brains, they could outsmart the Trolloc. However, put into a cage match, a Trolloc would easily kill your average soldier, they are very good at killing.

 

100 v 100 average soldier, humans would win, if they had standard arms and armour, and applied your basic tactics. The Trollocs could easily overwhelm them with sheer power and bloodlust if they didn't keep cool and keep formation.

 

Large armies, like 20k + Trollocs have the advantage of sheer force, unless you have an army exceptionally armed and extremely well trained (Like the Band or Aiel). Individual fighting prowess and tactics wouldn't be of any use, you would have to employ large scale strategy and manoeuvring. A pitched battle with Trollocs charging your line, they would simply overwhelm them with brute strength and lust for killing.

 

You have to either kill their masters, Forsaken, Dreadlords or Myrddraal, or, if they are acting independently, bloody them enough to make them believe it isn't worth it.

 

Trollocs are cowardly, but only if they think they can't win. Unless you are a channeller, have some special ability or display exceptional skill, they would most likely attack without hesitation.

[nolirion]

TommyRocker an average soldier is not a match for a trolloc , trolloc are quite the beast , taller and larger than many , to an inexperienced soldier they would be quite usefull .

I wonder if the female one are similar to the broodmother of Dragon Age .

 

i disagree. As I stated, they are stronger and bigger but they are unskilled and cowardly. It has been shown many times that normal soldiers don't have any more trouble with them than with regular men, so long as they don't panic. Even Alsbet Luhhan and the women of Emonds Field had no trouble dispatching them quickly. It mostly takes guts. Trollocs win by brute force and strength of numbers, not skill.

Well actually what you say is true , but in your example the Two-River men had time to accustom themselves to Trolloc and they where already great archer if not more .

You underestimate trolloc , while it is true that they lack skill and are coward at heart , they make up for it by their drive to kill , either by instinct or by Myrddraal , and their brutality .

In feudal army your average soldier is not a blademaster , sometime he barely hold is pike , not all feudal army are as good as the borderlander , and they have the nicest army prior to Rand's coming .

Country like Andor , Illian , Tear , have "good" officer (bred through nobility ) but most of their soldier are you average man . Witch not so long ago believed Trolloc where fairy tail , when the nightmare come most of them are terrified and that is the whole point of Trolloc .

[Vardar]

I was going to be smart and say when a man and a wolf/bear/hawk/goat love each other very much...

 

But someone already gave the real answer.

 

As to the Trolloc vs a Soldier, it's really going to depend. Even the size of the area will come into play. Strength only has an effect up to a certain point, but all the skill in the world can't help you parry a direct attack if the guy is too much stronger than you. If you define a soldier as a person hell bent on killing someone you point out, then Trollocs are better soldiers. They ask no questions, and they'll run in a kill where you point.

[thisguy]

I believe there isn't a lot of reference to this in the books, so this may be more personal opinion but; how are Trolloc's made, and more importantly, how are they continuing to be made?

 

If I remember, Trolloc's were first created by Channeller's, mixing human and animal stock. But how are they still being made? Are there Channeller's still making them, or is the Dark One doing it? I understand that a Myrddraal is Trolloc offspring, that means that Trollocs have the ability to mate, but I'm not sure i can imagine young Trollocs running around in the blight learning to kill

 

Just an idle thought, but interesting to see what people think

Maybe I'm remembering this incorrectly, but in the first 150 pages of EOTW, it says that myrddraal are the original stock that were made from humans, not trollocs. Trollocs come from however they tinkered with myrdrdaal.

[Vardar]

I believe there isn't a lot of reference to this in the books, so this may be more personal opinion but; how are Trolloc's made, and more importantly, how are they continuing to be made?

 

If I remember, Trolloc's were first created by Channeller's, mixing human and animal stock. But how are they still being made? Are there Channeller's still making them, or is the Dark One doing it? I understand that a Myrddraal is Trolloc offspring, that means that Trollocs have the ability to mate, but I'm not sure i can imagine young Trollocs running around in the blight learning to kill

 

Just an idle thought, but interesting to see what people think

Maybe I'm remembering this incorrectly, but in the first 150 pages of EOTW, it says that myrddraal are the original stock that were made from humans, not trollocs. Trollocs come from however they tinkered with myrdrdaal.

 

You have it backwards and a little wrong.

 

Trollocs were humans mixed with animal stock (Whatever that means, I guess they just didn't want to say animals) anyway, when they breed, sometimes you get, issues. Some of the issues were considered toss backs to the animal stock, i.e. a little too animal, they died, always. Well the opposite end was also true, sometimes some of the issues were closer to human than animal, they lived, and because AWESOME. Thus Myrdrdaal were born.

[TommyRocker]

TommyRocker an average soldier is not a match for a trolloc , trolloc are quite the beast , taller and larger than many , to an inexperienced soldier they would be quite usefull .

I wonder if the female one are similar to the broodmother of Dragon Age .

 

i disagree. As I stated, they are stronger and bigger but they are unskilled and cowardly. It has been shown many times that normal soldiers don't have any more trouble with them than with regular men, so long as they don't panic. Even Alsbet Luhhan and the women of Emonds Field had no trouble dispatching them quickly. It mostly takes guts. Trollocs win by brute force and strength of numbers, not skill.

Well actually what you say is true , but in your example the Two-River men had time to accustom themselves to Trolloc and they where already great archer if not more .

You underestimate trolloc , while it is true that they lack skill and are coward at heart , they make up for it by their drive to kill , either by instinct or by Myrddraal , and their brutality .

In feudal army your average soldier is not a blademaster , sometime he barely hold is pike , not all feudal army are as good as the borderlander , and they have the nicest army prior to Rand's coming .

Country like Andor , Illian , Tear , have "good" officer (bred through nobility ) but most of their soldier are you average man . Witch not so long ago believed Trolloc where fairy tail , when the nightmare come most of them are terrified and that is the whole point of Trolloc .

 

I didn't use Two Rivers men. I used women as an example. They weren't archers, had never been in battle, and they are shown casually hamstringing, beheading, and otherwise "pwning" trollocs once they break through the lines (due to superior numbers).

[Valley of Death]

The Women in the two rivers are not your average women. And the whole of the two rivers was with Perrin. And part of Perrin's Taveren nature is that people around him fight better and gain skill with a weapon at an extraordinary speed.

 

So you can't compare the two rivers women with Perrin to an average Illian or Tear or Andor soldier

[TommyRocker]

The Women in the two rivers are not your average women. And the whole of the two rivers was with Perrin. And part of Perrin's Taveren nature is that people around him fight better and gain skill with a weapon at an extraordinary speed.

 

So you can't compare the two rivers women with Perrin to an average Illian or Tear or Andor soldier

 

I need a "what the fuck are you talking about?!?!?" emoticon. I'm sure the career soldiers for Tear and Andor would love to know that a bunch of farmers' wives who have never picked up weapons in their lives are more deadly than they are.

[bigdoug1971]

I liked the discussion about "besting a trained soldier" and using the Two Rivers women as examples of besting Trollocs.

 

That being said, for trained soldiers that drill everyday and practice combat skills, the Trollocs sure did overrun the Whitecloaks until Perrin and his army came crashing down the hill to join the fight in TGS.......Just saying the Whitecloaks are at least "average" soldiers. And had a good leader at the time of the attack in Galad. The Whitecloaks were somewhat surprised by the attack, but at the same time, they were sure overrun in a hurry too!

 

I wouldn't want to face a Trolloc! Call them lazy, cowardly, or whatever you want. HELL WITH THAT!!!

[thisguy]

I liked the discussion about "besting a trained soldier" and using the Two Rivers women as examples of besting Trollocs.

 

That being said, for trained soldiers that drill everyday and practice combat skills, the Trollocs sure did overrun the Whitecloaks until Perrin and his army came crashing down the hill to join the fight in TGS.......Just saying the Whitecloaks are at least "average" soldiers. And had a good leader at the time of the attack in Galad. The Whitecloaks were somewhat surprised by the attack, but at the same time, they were sure overrun in a hurry too!

 

I wouldn't want to face a Trolloc! Call them lazy, cowardly, or whatever you want. HELL WITH THAT!!!

Good point. I think everyone forgets how strong they are because by this point in the series, most of the main characters are either extremely powerful or top of the line warriors - plus, the three main characters are ta'averen so they kinda boost their own soldiers ability to kill the bad guys.

[TommyRocker]

I liked the discussion about "besting a trained soldier" and using the Two Rivers women as examples of besting Trollocs.

 

That being said, for trained soldiers that drill everyday and practice combat skills, the Trollocs sure did overrun the Whitecloaks until Perrin and his army came crashing down the hill to join the fight in TGS.......Just saying the Whitecloaks are at least "average" soldiers. And had a good leader at the time of the attack in Galad. The Whitecloaks were somewhat surprised by the attack, but at the same time, they were sure overrun in a hurry too!

 

I wouldn't want to face a Trolloc! Call them lazy, cowardly, or whatever you want. HELL WITH THAT!!!

 

I think they were caught off guard, were outnumbered, had plenty of soldiers who hadn't seen action against real shadowspawn (healers/wisdoms don't count as shadowspawn...) and were expecting an attack from Perrin on the other side.

 

Besides, I think throughout the series there are several scenes that show that a LOT of whitecloaks are trained well to prance around looking pretty but have very little combat skill or experience. They mostly just bully farmers and women (though at this point maybe those still with Galad are the best of the best, I'm not that far on my current re-read). I do know that EXCEPTIONAL soldiers like Byar are not the norm for whitecloaks.

[Vardar]

I liked the discussion about "besting a trained soldier" and using the Two Rivers women as examples of besting Trollocs.

 

That being said, for trained soldiers that drill everyday and practice combat skills, the Trollocs sure did overrun the Whitecloaks until Perrin and his army came crashing down the hill to join the fight in TGS.......Just saying the Whitecloaks are at least "average" soldiers. And had a good leader at the time of the attack in Galad. The Whitecloaks were somewhat surprised by the attack, but at the same time, they were sure overrun in a hurry too!

 

I wouldn't want to face a Trolloc! Call them lazy, cowardly, or whatever you want. HELL WITH THAT!!!

 

The whitecloaks chose a position they thought was defenable because of that river at their backs, the trollocs came from that river, thus negating their entire defense. So it wasn't just a training thing, it's kinda like how gateways kill the ability of walls to keep your safe.