Leeeeerooooooy Jeeeeeenkiiiiiins!!!!

[Sid]

EEEELAAAAAAAAAAAAAYNE TRAAAAKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNND

 

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

 

If you say it the same way the guy did on the famous WoW video... it fits so perfectly!

 

 

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

 

Hats off to you for this post

[Vardar]

It is explained by the first way you form a weave imprinting itself on you and it is too big a lampshade not to be used in aMoL somehow IMO.

 

Yea but that implies her gateway was different, or a different weave., Howso? What's special about it. So yea, I agree with you, but I have a suspicion that it won't be explained.

[TristanWebb]

There are different ways of weaving with the power to achieve the same result. They first way you do it imprints itself on you. I don't think there is a fundimental difference in the outcome other than Avi could do it better because of the imprinting.

[BKVMC]

Elayne Trakand for rushing into catching the black ajah in caemlyn and getting every every person in her party killed except for herself and Birgitte and her personal guardswomen

[Suttree]

Elayne Trakand for rushing into catching the black ajah in caemlyn and getting every every person in her party killed except for herself and Birgitte and her personal guardswomen

 

Even though this is often referenced as a point for Elaynes stupidity I've yet to see an adequate explanation for what else she could have realistically done. Acting on the intelligence available she utilized the only resources to hand. In addition she effectively hamstrung the unknown BA member in her midst with the linking trick and had warders for back up. It really wasn't that bad of a plan things just went south do to chance.

[Clouded]

Elayne Trakand for rushing into catching the black ajah in caemlyn and getting every every person in her party killed except for herself and Birgitte and her personal guardswomen

 

Even though this is often referenced as a point for Elaynes stupidity I've yet to see an adequate explanation for what else she could have realistically done. Acting on the intelligence available she utilized the only resources to hand. In addition she effectively hamstrung the unknown BA member in her midst with the linking trick and had warders for back up. It really wasn't that bad of a plan things just went south do to chance.

 

Please correct me if I am wrong. I'm pulling from memory, and don't remember everything that has occurred up to this point in the series.

 

If I remember correctly, here is what Elayne knows at the time.

-She cannot consistently channel due to the pregnancy.

-2 members of the black Ajah are in the target house.

-Dark friends likely live in the house. She does not know how many.

-She does not know where the remaining members of the black Ajah are.

-The members of the black Ajah stole many ter' angreal, one of which is an uncontrollable rod that shoots balefire.

-Her source of information is a cutpurse, which she intimidated into working for her.

-She has a large number of Kin in her palace.

-Of Careane, Sareitha, and Merilille; one was a black sister.

 

First things first, Elayne should've delved the cut purse for compulsion. She knows compulsion exists. She knows the black ajah conspired with Moghedien, which gave them a chance to learn the weave. She trusts the cut purse's word without scrutiny.

 

Elayne decides to take with her 3 Aes Sedai, Careane, Sareitha, and Vandene, their warders, and 50 guardsman.

 

If we do the math for Elayne, thats 4 sisters against 2 of the black Ajah. But taking into account Elayne's channeling problems, it could easily be 3 vs 2. Taking into account a possible black sister in their group, it could be 2 Aes Sedai vs 3 black sisters.

 

To counter the fact that one of the 2 sisters with her could be black, Elayne and Vandene lead the circles. Still this seems foolish as a black sister can still use a knife, like Vandene did while shielded. Also, the fight is now 2 weaves of sisters vs 2 weaves of black. The sisters flows are just stronger.

 

Elayne's planned fight had the chance of success of about a coin flip. The advantage goes to her, because she can surprise them. But that is assuming the House on Full Moon Street doesn't know she is coming.

 

I believe a much better alternative is a Shock and Awe approach. Elayne should have gone to the Kin for more numbers. Her group have easily outnumbered any number of people in the house. They could have stormed the house quickly, wrapping up non-channelers in flows of air and shielding the channelers. With this plan, the weight of trying to capture some black sisters is not only on 4 people.

 

Some flaws with the plan are that they lose the element of surprise. I'd say they have just as much surprise factor. I'd say speed and numbers out weigh the stealth used in the original plan. This plan has just as much risk of alerting the black sisters, with a safer fall back.

 

Other arguments are that the Kin would not go against Aes Sedai. But we've seen the Kin grow their backbone towards Aes Sedai.Also, It could be argued to them that the black sisters are no longer worthy of the title Aes Sedai.

[Suttree]

Elayne Trakand for rushing into catching the black ajah in caemlyn and getting every every person in her party killed except for herself and Birgitte and her personal guardswomen

 

Even though this is often referenced as a point for Elaynes stupidity I've yet to see an adequate explanation for what else she could have realistically done. Acting on the intelligence available she utilized the only resources to hand. In addition she effectively hamstrung the unknown BA member in her midst with the linking trick and had warders for back up. It really wasn't that bad of a plan things just went south do to chance.

 

Please correct me if I am wrong. I'm pulling from memory, and don't remember everything that has occurred up to this point in the series.

 

If I remember correctly, here is what Elayne knows at the time.

-She cannot consistently channel due to the pregnancy.

-2 members of the black Ajah are in the target house.

-Dark friends likely live in the house. She does not know how many.

-She does not know where the remaining members of the black Ajah are.

-The members of the black Ajah stole many ter' angreal, one of which is an uncontrollable rod that shoots balefire.

-Her source of information is a cutpurse, which she intimidated into working for her.

-She has a large number of Kin in her palace.

-Of Careane, Sareitha, and Merilille; one was a black sister.

 

First things first, Elayne should've delved the cut purse for compulsion. She knows compulsion exists. She knows the black ajah conspired with Moghedien, which gave them a chance to learn the weave. She trusts the cut purse's word without scrutiny.

 

Elayne decides to take with her 3 Aes Sedai, Careane, Sareitha, and Vandene, their warders, and 50 guardsman.

 

If we do the math for Elayne, thats 4 sisters against 2 of the black Ajah. But taking into account Elayne's channeling problems, it could easily be 3 vs 2. Taking into account a possible black sister in their group, it could be 2 Aes Sedai vs 3 black sisters.

 

To counter the fact that one of the 2 sisters with her could be black, Elayne and Vandene lead the circles. Still this seems foolish as a black sister can still use a knife, like Vandene did while shielded. Also, the fight is now 2 weaves of sisters vs 2 weaves of black. The sisters flows are just stronger.

 

Elayne's planned fight had the chance of success of about a coin flip. The advantage goes to her, because she can surprise them. But that is assuming the House on Full Moon Street doesn't know she is coming.

 

I believe a much better alternative is a Shock and Awe approach. Elayne should have gone to the Kin for more numbers. Her group have easily outnumbered any number of people in the house. They could have stormed the house quickly, wrapping up non-channelers in flows of air and shielding the channelers. With this plan, the weight of trying to capture some black sisters is not only on 4 people.

 

Some flaws with the plan are that they lose the element of surprise. I'd say they have just as much surprise factor. I'd say speed and numbers out weigh the stealth used in the original plan. This plan has just as much risk of alerting the black sisters, with a safer fall back.

 

Other arguments are that the Kin would not go against Aes Sedai. But we've seen the Kin grow their backbone towards Aes Sedai.Also, It could be argued to them that the black sisters are no longer worthy of the title Aes Sedai.

 

First off do we know any of them knew how to delve for compulsion? I could be wrong but hought that was something that came along later.

 

Either way one must consider she is working with time constraints given the murders, ten channelers had already been killed. In terms of resources the other channeler groups would be either unwilling or unable to capture BA members. She couldn't trust Careane & Sareitha so going herself was really the only option. With all that in mind the linking trick her and Vandene used was clever. True the BA could still use a knife but to call it foolish is a pretty big stretch. It was a decent plan and the intervention of totally unforseeable events doesn't change that.

[Vardar]

Elayne Trakand for rushing into catching the black ajah in caemlyn and getting every every person in her party killed except for herself and Birgitte and her personal guardswomen

 

Even though this is often referenced as a point for Elaynes stupidity I've yet to see an adequate explanation for what else she could have realistically done. Acting on the intelligence available she utilized the only resources to hand. In addition she effectively hamstrung the unknown BA member in her midst with the linking trick and had warders for back up. It really wasn't that bad of a plan things just went south do to chance.

 

Please correct me if I am wrong. I'm pulling from memory, and don't remember everything that has occurred up to this point in the series.

 

If I remember correctly, here is what Elayne knows at the time.

-She cannot consistently channel due to the pregnancy.

-2 members of the black Ajah are in the target house.

-Dark friends likely live in the house. She does not know how many.

-She does not know where the remaining members of the black Ajah are.

-The members of the black Ajah stole many ter' angreal, one of which is an uncontrollable rod that shoots balefire.

-Her source of information is a cutpurse, which she intimidated into working for her.

-She has a large number of Kin in her palace.

-Of Careane, Sareitha, and Merilille; one was a black sister.

 

First things first, Elayne should've delved the cut purse for compulsion. She knows compulsion exists. She knows the black ajah conspired with Moghedien, which gave them a chance to learn the weave. She trusts the cut purse's word without scrutiny.

 

Elayne decides to take with her 3 Aes Sedai, Careane, Sareitha, and Vandene, their warders, and 50 guardsman.

 

If we do the math for Elayne, thats 4 sisters against 2 of the black Ajah. But taking into account Elayne's channeling problems, it could easily be 3 vs 2. Taking into account a possible black sister in their group, it could be 2 Aes Sedai vs 3 black sisters.

 

To counter the fact that one of the 2 sisters with her could be black, Elayne and Vandene lead the circles. Still this seems foolish as a black sister can still use a knife, like Vandene did while shielded. Also, the fight is now 2 weaves of sisters vs 2 weaves of black. The sisters flows are just stronger.

 

Elayne's planned fight had the chance of success of about a coin flip. The advantage goes to her, because she can surprise them. But that is assuming the House on Full Moon Street doesn't know she is coming.

 

I believe a much better alternative is a Shock and Awe approach. Elayne should have gone to the Kin for more numbers. Her group have easily outnumbered any number of people in the house. They could have stormed the house quickly, wrapping up non-channelers in flows of air and shielding the channelers. With this plan, the weight of trying to capture some black sisters is not only on 4 people.

 

Some flaws with the plan are that they lose the element of surprise. I'd say they have just as much surprise factor. I'd say speed and numbers out weigh the stealth used in the original plan. This plan has just as much risk of alerting the black sisters, with a safer fall back.

 

Other arguments are that the Kin would not go against Aes Sedai. But we've seen the Kin grow their backbone towards Aes Sedai.Also, It could be argued to them that the black sisters are no longer worthy of the title Aes Sedai.

 

She doesn't know how to delve for compulsion, Rand teaches Ny that later. Even if it was the same book, she doesn't know yet.

 

Her channeling problems only work with grabbing the source, once she has it, she keeps it. She considers always holding onto it for that reason before.

 

Linked it shouldn't be a problem, as you cannot force an unlink if you have lead, plus she had the other circle led by someone she was sure wasn't a DF. It was really win/win and a great plan.

 

Didn't she keep them in the front? I can't recall but that's the impression I got (I may be wrong here) so no knife in the back.

 

You don't know which Kin are DF if any of them, plus some of the Kin may still have aversion to attacking AS. Kinda of a catch 22 here.

 

You don't know how long they will be at that palace. Sure grabbing say 10 more Kin wouldn't take that long, but who knows if they'll still be there. This plan makes sense in my head, but the unknown factor for her in the end.

[Clouded]

First off do we know any of them knew how to delve for compulsion? I could be wrong but hought that was something that came along later.

 

Either way one must consider she is working with time constraints given the murders, ten channelers had already been killed. In terms of resources the other channeler groups would be either unwilling or unable to capture BA members. She couldn't trust Careane & Sareitha so going herself was really the only option. With all that in mind the linking trick her and Vandene used was clever. True the BA could still use a knife but to call it foolish is a pretty big stretch. It was a decent plan and the intervention of totally unforseeable events doesn't change that.

I think you're right about the compulsion thing. I seem to remember Nyneave detecting a block on Kerb and only understands it after Rand explains its compulsion, so it was likely not done before.

 

I don't understand why the other channeler groups would be unwilling or unable to capture BA members. I can understand not going to the Windfinders. They would consider helping a violation of their bargain, or demand another bargain which wastes time. But why would the Kin not be a viable option? For what reasons would they be unwilling to help caputre BA members?

 

And I also wouldn't say the events were totally unforseeable. She knew that 2 of the sisters who ran from the Tower were in there. She also did not know where they were. I feel its only natural to be wary of them when trying to capture the inhabitants of the house.

 

Also, and this could be a point against me, does anyone know what Jaem reports back with when he goes to scout the house. I think I remember him reporting that there was one big horse handler that he tied up, and that he couldn't see anything else. They should've done more scouting.

[Vardar]

First off do we know any of them knew how to delve for compulsion? I could be wrong but hought that was something that came along later.

 

Either way one must consider she is working with time constraints given the murders, ten channelers had already been killed. In terms of resources the other channeler groups would be either unwilling or unable to capture BA members. She couldn't trust Careane & Sareitha so going herself was really the only option. With all that in mind the linking trick her and Vandene used was clever. True the BA could still use a knife but to call it foolish is a pretty big stretch. It was a decent plan and the intervention of totally unforseeable events doesn't change that.

I think you're right about the compulsion thing. I seem to remember Nyneave detecting a block on Kerb and only understands it after Rand explains its compulsion, so it was likely not done before.

 

I don't understand why the other channeler groups would be unwilling or unable to capture BA members. I can understand not going to the Windfinders. They would consider helping a violation of their bargain, or demand another bargain which wastes time. But why would the Kin not be a viable option? For what reasons would they be unwilling to help caputre BA members?

 

And I also wouldn't say the events were totally unforseeable. She knew that 2 of the sisters who ran from the Tower were in there. She also did not know where they were. I feel its only natural to be wary of them when trying to capture the inhabitants of the house.

 

Also, and this could be a point against me, does anyone know what Jaem reports back with when he goes to scout the house. I think I remember him reporting that there was one big horse handler that he tied up, and that he couldn't see anything else. They should've done more scouting.

 

Because who knows how many of the Kin are trushworthy. She didn't. the only one she was sure sure about she let lead the other circle. I guess she could have had more people into the two circles, but at that point it becomes an issue of moving more silently and quickly.

 

She knew there were two there right? She, as powerful as she was, and linked could stop them even if they were linked, and she had back up. I don't think she knew how many were there.

 

Jaem wasn't even supposed to tie the guy up, didn't he get looks for doing that much? He was just supposed to scout and that's it, they really wanted that surprise element.

[Suttree]

First off do we know any of them knew how to delve for compulsion? I could be wrong but hought that was something that came along later.

 

Either way one must consider she is working with time constraints given the murders, ten channelers had already been killed. In terms of resources the other channeler groups would be either unwilling or unable to capture BA members. She couldn't trust Careane & Sareitha so going herself was really the only option. With all that in mind the linking trick her and Vandene used was clever. True the BA could still use a knife but to call it foolish is a pretty big stretch. It was a decent plan and the intervention of totally unforseeable events doesn't change that.

I think you're right about the compulsion thing. I seem to remember Nyneave detecting a block on Kerb and only understands it after Rand explains its compulsion, so it was likely not done before.

 

I don't understand why the other channeler groups would be unwilling or unable to capture BA members. I can understand not going to the Windfinders. They would consider helping a violation of their bargain, or demand another bargain which wastes time. But why would the Kin not be a viable option? For what reasons would they be unwilling to help caputre BA members?

 

And I also wouldn't say the events were totally unforseeable. She knew that 2 of the sisters who ran from the Tower were in there. She also did not know where they were. I feel its only natural to be wary of them when trying to capture the inhabitants of the house.

 

Also, and this could be a point against me, does anyone know what Jaem reports back with when he goes to scout the house. I think I remember him reporting that there was one big horse handler that he tied up, and that he couldn't see anything else. They should've done more scouting.

 

Because who knows how many of the Kin are trushworthy. She didn't. the only one she was sure sure about she let lead the other circle. I guess she could have had more people into the two circles, but at that point it becomes an issue of moving more silently and quickly.

even supposed to tie the guy up, didn't he get looks for doing that much? He was just supposed to scout and that's it, they really wanted that surprise element.

 

Not to mention that most Kin still went week in the knees around any AS, let alone BA which would be someting akin to a nightmare becoming real. They would not be relaible in that situation.