The Heroes of the Horn

[Mik]

We don't know about any Heroes bound to the horn other than Hawkwing being a Ta'veren. Is there a list of past Ta'veren somewhere? That would shed some light Cow. What if all Heroes are Ta'veren?

I thought Ta'verenness (lol.. is that even a word?) isn't a default setting of a soul, regardless if that soul belongs to a Hero of the Horn or not. Granted, Heroes of the Horn might be Ta'veren more often because they are the 'correcting mechanisms of the Wheel itself' and spun out as the Wheel sees fit, but I was under the impression that the Heroes are more often then not spun out to lead regular lives. When they are needed as Heroes, they are spun out as a Hero and even then no Hero is a ta'veren by default. Not even the soul belonging to Hawkwing.

 

Even Mat, Perrin & Rand are ta'veren only for as long as the Wheel needs them to be and that might change even during their lifetime. It isn't something a soul is born with, I thought.

[Lisa Campbell]

Ta'veren-ness is a word here alright

 

As to the rest, we just don't know enough. Birgitte's known accomplishments in her lives come pretty close though IMO. Helping to found the White Tower for one has to have involved some pretty convincing fast talking (think Perrin), perhaps even Ta'veren-ness to sway women who were scared and still trying to serve the world.

 

That's the main thing that will disappoint me at the end of the series, not what happens but all those unanswered questions. My opinion is that the 'prophecied' Encyclopedia cannot possibly answer them all either.

 

Bugger, I really hope I'm wrong there.

 

Edit: Your last point is correct according to quotes posted here and elsewhere, but no-one is Ta'veren for their whole life, so I don't believe that defines a Hero status.

[Matrim-Bloody-Cauthon]

exactly, the heroes will be less in number when mat blows it this time, so it is a less effective weapon.

 

There is absolutely nothing to support that opinion. In addition event if Birgitte and Gaidal make two less and none of the other heroes were born already that still would only place Gaidal without a in the LB. I hardly think that makes enough of a difference to call it less effective.

 

Lastly not sure why you place the main significance of the Horn as being a "anti Dark Dragon" weapon. That doesn't really follow and would seem to be rather low on the list of priorities for uses.

I name it as a anti dark dragon weapon because a while back there was the theory that if the dragon did go to the dark side and was destroying everyone then the horn would be the most effective weapon against him. of course thats my opinion

 

as for why I said it becomes less effective a weapon based on how fewer heroes there are (if more are spun out than before) its because of simple numbers, if all heroes where in tar the horn would be 100% effective, and the fewer heroes the less effective based purely on numbers

The heros of the horn would only follow the Dragon in TGH... So ifvrand went evil and the horn was sounded the HotH would follow the Dragon and slaughter people with him.

[pamela]

exactly, the heroes will be less in number when mat blows it this time, so it is a less effective weapon.

 

There is absolutely nothing to support that opinion. In addition event if Birgitte and Gaidal make two less and none of the other heroes were born already that still would only place Gaidal without a in the LB. I hardly think that makes enough of a difference to call it less effective.

 

Lastly not sure why you place the main significance of the Horn as being a "anti Dark Dragon" weapon. That doesn't really follow and would seem to be rather low on the list of priorities for uses.

I name it as a anti dark dragon weapon because a while back there was the theory that if the dragon did go to the dark side and was destroying everyone then the horn would be the most effective weapon against him. of course thats my opinion

 

as for why I said it becomes less effective a weapon based on how fewer heroes there are (if more are spun out than before) its because of simple numbers, if all heroes where in tar the horn would be 100% effective, and the fewer heroes the less effective based purely on numbers

The heros of the horn would only follow the Dragon in TGH... So ifvrand went evil and the horn was sounded the HotH would follow the Dragon and slaughter people with him.

 

 

Didn't Hawking say to Rand that in the past they fought side by side as many times as they fought against each other?

[Luckers]

exactly, the heroes will be less in number when mat blows it this time, so it is a less effective weapon.

 

There is absolutely nothing to support that opinion. In addition event if Birgitte and Gaidal make two less and none of the other heroes were born already that still would only place Gaidal without a in the LB. I hardly think that makes enough of a difference to call it less effective.

 

Lastly not sure why you place the main significance of the Horn as being a "anti Dark Dragon" weapon. That doesn't really follow and would seem to be rather low on the list of priorities for uses.

I name it as a anti dark dragon weapon because a while back there was the theory that if the dragon did go to the dark side and was destroying everyone then the horn would be the most effective weapon against him. of course thats my opinion

 

as for why I said it becomes less effective a weapon based on how fewer heroes there are (if more are spun out than before) its because of simple numbers, if all heroes where in tar the horn would be 100% effective, and the fewer heroes the less effective based purely on numbers

The heros of the horn would only follow the Dragon in TGH... So ifvrand went evil and the horn was sounded the HotH would follow the Dragon and slaughter people with him.

 

Actually, RJ stated that if ever anyone were stupid enough to call the heroes against Rand (which would be the case if Mat sounded the horn against an Evil Version of Rand), then the heroes wouldn't be compelled to fight follow Rand, but rather a 'rift in the pattern' would occur. Whatever that is.

 

So, basically, the horn can be sounded for any cause, and the heroes are compelled to obey the Hornsounder, but if the Dragon is present there is also a compulsion to follow him, and if the two are in contradiction it causes a big scary rift in the pattern.

[Lisa Campbell]

That just made me think of Feist's Rift Wars (smacks forehead, so slow)

 

What if this rift is a bridge for the DO to cross and the whole pattern depends on Mat not sounding the Horn if Rand goes dark again?

[pamela]

... But why did Hawking say so? Did the Heroes fight against the Dragon despite the rift? Or was he sometimes reincarnated in the past in the times of the Dragon, instead of arriving when the Horn sounds? I must check in the book, maybe I made it up.

[FarShainMael]

exactly, the heroes will be less in number when mat blows it this time, so it is a less effective weapon.

 

There is absolutely nothing to support that opinion. In addition event if Birgitte and Gaidal make two less and none of the other heroes were born already that still would only place Gaidal without a in the LB. I hardly think that makes enough of a difference to call it less effective.

 

Lastly not sure why you place the main significance of the Horn as being a "anti Dark Dragon" weapon. That doesn't really follow and would seem to be rather low on the list of priorities for uses.

I name it as a anti dark dragon weapon because a while back there was the theory that if the dragon did go to the dark side and was destroying everyone then the horn would be the most effective weapon against him. of course thats my opinion

 

as for why I said it becomes less effective a weapon based on how fewer heroes there are (if more are spun out than before) its because of simple numbers, if all heroes where in tar the horn would be 100% effective, and the fewer heroes the less effective based purely on numbers

The heros of the horn would only follow the Dragon in TGH... So ifvrand went evil and the horn was sounded the HotH would follow the Dragon and slaughter people with him.

 

 

Didn't Hawking say to Rand that in the past they fought side by side as many times as they fought against each other?

 

He did; but as someone has pointed out to me, that need not have been in their Hawkwing / Dragon incarnations.

[Iroquois Pliskin]

Has anyone thought about how the Horn is sort of like the Dark One for the Light? The DO can take threads and set them aside and reincarnate them into a new body, but the way he does it is kind of anti-pattern. He stuffs a male soul into a female body, brings people back in middle age.

 

The HoV does the exact same thing, except it only brings back the souls and not in the flesh. Both are capable of taking threads of the pattern and setting those souls aside for use. That makes me wonder how does the HoV make it's choices? Like yes we know that it chooses people who are heroes and it can add to the number but how does it determine if a soul is worthy enough to be attached to the horn? Doesn't that imply it on some level has a kind of sentience?

[Tiberius]

Do we know the number of heroes tied to the horn? I don't remember the size of the host called at Falme in terms of a head count. Do we have that info?

[Suttree]

Do we know the number of heroes tied to the horn? I don't remember the size of the host called at Falme in terms of a head count. Do we have that info?

 

Over a hundred at least...

 

TGH

He knew them. Men, not all in armor, and women. Their clothes and their weapons came from every Age, but he knew them all.

Rogosh Eagle-eye, a fatherly looking man with white hair and eyes so sharp as to make his name merely a hint. Gaidal Cain, a swarthy man with the hilts of his two swords sticking above his broad shoulders. Golden-haired Birgitte, with her gleaming silver bow and quiver bristling with silver arrows. More. He knew their faces, knew their names. But he heard a hundred names when he looked at each face, some so different he did not recognize them as names at all, though he knew they were. Michael instead of Mikel. Patrick instead of Paedrig. Oscar instead of Otarin.

He knew the man who rode at their head, too. Tall and hook-nosed, with dark, deep-set eyes, his great sword Justice at his side. Artur Hawkwing.

Mat gaped at them as they reined in before him and the others. "Is this... ?

Is this all of you?" They were little more than a hundred, Rand saw, and realized that somehow he had known that they would be. Hurin's mouth hung open; his eyes bulged almost out of his head.

[Tiberius]

Thanks for the quote. I would have researched it, but on a ten minute break at work on an iPhone Is hard.

 

So a hundred minus a one or two, a hundred BAMFs. I wonder if Mat will sound the horn to save Lan's bacon. The time line is so wiggly, I dont know where Lan's group is at the time Mat & Co leave the ToG...