Ebou Dar

[thisguy]

For one thing, Rand overestimated his age. For another, it's quite possible; many think he was trained by Ishamael before he proclaimed himself.

What do you mean he overestimated his age? Does that come out later in the books? I found it weird that they guy had just proclaimed himself Dragon around a year before that scene but had been channeling for 15 years.

[Terez]

For one thing, Rand assumed Taim must have begun channeling around the same age he did, which is not necessarily the case; men spark as late as 30. Also, RJ said Rand overestimated his age.

[thisguy]

For one thing, Rand assumed Taim must have begun channeling around the same age he did, which is not necessarily the case; men spark as late as 30. Also, RJ said Rand overestimated his age.

Gotcha. Didn't Taim say he had been channeling for 15 years? Obviously, he could have been lying. Just wondering.

[Terez]

Oh, that. We can't take Taim at his word. But again, it's possible. If he's telling the truth, he was probably trained by Ishamael. If he's exaggerating, then he might not have started channeling until not long before Saldaea. It's just unlikely, because he knows a lot. Of course, the Mazridin argument is a completely different argument with different questions it has to answer.

 

PS—I don't think he says it straight out, unless you have something in mind other than this:

 

Rand studied Taim as the man and his escort crossed the courtyard. At least fifteen years older than himself; thirty-five, then, or a few years more at most. Little was known and less written of men who could channel – it was a subject most decent people avoided – but Rand had learned what he could. Relatively few men actually sought it out; that was one of Rand’s problems. Since the Breaking, most men who channeled had the ability born in them, ready to spring out as they grew into manhood. Some managed to keep madness at bay for years before Aes Sedai found and gentled them; others were already hopelessly mad when found, at times less than a year after first touching saidin. Rand had clung to sanity for close to two years, so far. Yet in front of him he had a man who must have managed it for ten or fifteen. That alone was worth something....

 

..."What knowledge do you have that I need? Can you teach men to channel? Can you test a man to know whether he can be taught?"...

 

..."I can do both," he said quickly. "I have found five over the years – not that I was really looking – but only one had the courage to go beyond the testing." He hesitated, then added, "He went mad after two years. I had to kill him before he killed me."

 

Two years. "You’ve held it off a deal longer than that. How?"

 

"Worried?" Taim asked softly, then shrugged. "I can’t help you. I don’t know how; I just did. I’m sane as... " His eyes flickered toward Bashere, ignoring the other man’s flat stare. "... as Lord Bashere."

[thisguy]

Oh, that. We can't take Taim at his word. But again, it's possible. If he's telling the truth, he was probably trained by Ishamael. If he's exaggerating, then he might not have started channeling until not long before Saldaea. It's just unlikely, because he knows a lot. Of course, the Mazridin argument is a completely different argument with different questions it has to answer.

Mazridin? HAHAHA

[Terez]

RJ said in interviews that the black cords were both protection from the taint and conduits for the True Power, and we have reason to believe that Taim can channel the True Power. So that's a point in Mazridin's favor, but it's also a general point in favor of Taim having protection. And it's also not exactly a given that Brandon was confirming this guy's assumptions, either. It might just be something Brandon noticed on his first reread after reading the notes and ending.

[thisguy]

Thanks, Terez. Just looked at the links. I can't see how Taim could be channeling for 15 years then. Makes no sense. Must have been lying.

[yoniy0]

Yeah, but Brandon was at least partially responsible for the description of the halo around Rand, so his confirming the likeness is probably more significant. It can still be benign, but I think it has to have some meaning.

[Terez]

Yeah, but Brandon was at least partially responsible for the description of the halo around Rand, so his confirming the likeness is probably more significant. It can still be benign, but I think it has to have some meaning.

 

Maybe, maybe not. It could very well have been detailed in the notes to the point that it would have been a likeness any way Brandon tried to describe it assuming he captured what was intended. I tend to think it means something, but knowing how Brandon likes to give us false impressions (in a different way than RJ did completely) I wouldn't bank on it.

[gloweye]

Terez, you're the first to make me consider Demandred=roedran. But there is one flaw in that he is responsible for the BT. At the cleansing, he didn't know the meaning of a black coat, considered the clue argument against taimandred, when not talking about RJ quotes.

 

Talking about kisman getting his orders from Demandred, I think he was decieved. IIRC, he is ordered Rand's death by him, but Demandred would want to do it himself.

[yoniy0]

At the cleansing, he didn't know the meaning of a black coat

Yeah, but that's already after he's been dealing orders to renegade Ahsa'man, so either it's just a mistake or he has a method of contacting them that allows him to remain ignorant of this fact (he could hardly have been in touch with more than one and still not notice their uniforms, and I don't believe they would be wearing anything but even in TAR).

[Terez]

Terez, you're the first to make me consider Demandred=roedran. But there is one flaw in that he is responsible for the BT. At the cleansing, he didn't know the meaning of a black coat, considered the clue argument against taimandred, when not talking about RJ quotes.

 

Think Mesaana. Alviarin always thought about how Mesaana hardly knew who any of the Black sisters even were; she didn't care because she had the Head of the Black Ajah to give orders to, and Alviarin passed those orders down. A few of the more powerful Black sisters met her, but probably not many, and she probably had to ask Alviarin who to look for. So, Demandred not recognizing Flinn was good evidence that Demandred was not Taim, but it's not evidence that he was not behind the Black Tower in the beginning. At least he said 'that tottering old man was an Asha'man!' rather than 'a channeler' or some generic term.

[Sid]

Terez, you're the first to make me consider Demandred=roedran. But there is one flaw in that he is responsible for the BT. At the cleansing, he didn't know the meaning of a black coat, considered the clue argument against taimandred, when not talking about RJ quotes.

 

Talking about kisman getting his orders from Demandred, I think he was decieved. IIRC, he is ordered Rand's death by him, but Demandred would want to do it himself.

 

A note on the bolded section of your post, when Demandred saw male channelers at the cleansing, they were not wearing their Asha'man coats.

With the Choedan Kal[/i]']"I am going to remove the taint from the male half of the Source," he announced.

The three Asha'man, now in plain dark coats and cloaks like the other Warders, exchanged excited glances, but a ripple passed through the Aes Sedai.

 

Ah, the days of seemingly endless Taimandred discussions. I kind of miss them, actually.

I had to reread this chapter to find out for sure if I was misremembering or not... and it was a nice little excuse to read a great chapter again.

[The Fisher King]

Nice pick up, Sidster!!

 

 

Fish

[yoniy0]

when Demandred saw male channelers at the cleansing, they were not wearing their Asha'man coats.

Can anyone confirm that this line was in the first edition? It reads like a retraction, doesn't it?

[Hyronimus]

It is in mine.

[thisguy]

Yeah, but Brandon was at least partially responsible for the description of the halo around Rand, so his confirming the likeness is probably more significant. It can still be benign, but I think it has to have some meaning.

 

Maybe, maybe not. It could very well have been detailed in the notes to the point that it would have been a likeness any way Brandon tried to describe it assuming he captured what was intended. I tend to think it means something, but knowing how Brandon likes to give us false impressions (in a different way than RJ did completely) I wouldn't bank on it.

 

In LoC, the chapter where Logain is healed and can channel again. He mentions seeing Rand when he's taken to Caemlyn and that Rand had a halo around him. I think this is RJ, not BS.

[Sid]

Logain has the Talent for seeing ta'veren, like Siuan Sanche (and Nicola). This is the reason he was roaring with laughter when Rand saw him, since Logain knew that this person he saw was going to turn the world upside down much more than he ever would. This is a different effect than the other mentioned instances, I believe.

[gloweye]

But thats because logain can see ta'veren like both siuan and nicola can.

 

EDIT: sid beat me to the answer...

[thisguy]

Logain has the Talent for seeing ta'veren, like Siuan Sanche (and Nicola). This is the reason he was roaring with laughter when Rand saw him, since Logain knew that this person he saw was going to turn the world upside down much more than he ever would. This is a different effect than the other mentioned instances, I believe.

Fair enough, I really don't remember the halo thing you're describing then. Yeah, I understand about Logain. Thanks, man.

[Neophyte]

Yeah, but Brandon was at least partially responsible for the description of the halo around Rand, so his confirming the likeness is probably more significant. It can still be benign, but I think it has to have some meaning.

 

Maybe, maybe not. It could very well have been detailed in the notes to the point that it would have been a likeness any way Brandon tried to describe it assuming he captured what was intended. I tend to think it means something, but knowing how Brandon likes to give us false impressions (in a different way than RJ did completely) I wouldn't bank on it.

 

In LoC, the chapter where Logain is healed and can channel again. He mentions seeing Rand when he's taken to Caemlyn and that Rand had a halo around him. I think this is RJ, not BS.

 

I think the halo that Logain described in LoC chapter 30 is similar to the halo that Siuan Sanche saw around him in Fal Dara - it is a hint that Logain can see ta'veren, the way that Siuan can.

 

The darkness around Rand following his use of the True Power, and the "air of imminent violence that seemed palpable enough to soak up light" seen around Taim in the prologue of Winter's Heart, seem completely unrelated to what Logain saw.

 

Edit: seems I got beat to that one all around ... thats what I get for actually looking stuff up