Egwene Appreciation Thread

[randsc]

In fairness, I do think Egwene deserves some credit for recognizing that there is a need for the Red to find a new role and purpose. And Silviana's promotion was clever.

 

Because yes, it is obvious that the Red won't be able to hunt down male channellers anymore. But the obsolescence of buggy whips isn't always obvious to buggy whip makers. Egwene embodies many of the traits of the Aes Sedai as an organization, both good traits and bad. But she does not embody ALL of the traits of the Aes Sedai. And one trait she does not embody is extreme conservatism. She is ready to innovate (granted, only within the context of a worldview that still sees the Tower as the world's only legitimate fount of authority.)

[fionwe1987]

Actually with minor exceptions like the right to items of power etc she continues to behave as her predecessors did when the general power situation has changed. The WT is no longer the undisputed leader in Randland. It was in Siuan's time but it is no longer in Egwene's time.

It is hardly minor to allow "wilders" to not only organize, but train White Tower initiates. It isn't minor to actively recruit Novices, and scrape age from being a consideration for acceptance. It isn't minor to ask the Red Ajah to stop hunting male channelers and find another job.

 

And Egwene is hardly blind to the flaws of the Aes Sedai:

 

 

 

None of this refutes my point about Egwene believing in the hype that the WT is the undisputed leader of Randland as it used to be in her predecessors time.

But it is. This isn't a matter of hype. When Rand wanted to get the rulers of the world together at FoM, it is Egwene he went to. He didn't go to Elayne and ask her to do it. He didn't get Darlin to do it. He didn't ask Gregorin to do it.

 

Like it or not, the Amyrlin Seat has been the closest to a supra-national authority in Randland for 3000 years, and that kind of continuous political tradition holds a lot of meaning.

As for the Red Ajah, how exactly could they hunt male channelers without getting destroyed now that there is a nearly 1000 strong BT who are superior in fighting with the OP. Anyone with common sense can see that!!

But Egwene never made that kind of a pragmatic calculation. After all, her first question when she went to the Tower was, "Do we have to gentle the men? Can't we do something else?" Egwene belongs to a rather large class of Aes Sedai who saw gentling male channelers as a regrettable necessity, not something to be joyful about. The moment the taint was gone, that necessity was gone. Pragmatic considerations don't enter into it. Many Reds fall in this category too. Silviana certainly did.

[randsc]

Actually with minor exceptions like the right to items of power etc she continues to behave as her predecessors did when the general power situation has changed. The WT is no longer the undisputed leader in Randland. It was in Siuan's time but it is no longer in Egwene's time.

It is hardly minor to allow "wilders" to not only organize, but train White Tower initiates. It isn't minor to actively recruit Novices, and scrape age from being a consideration for acceptance. It isn't minor to ask the Red Ajah to stop hunting male channelers and find another job.

 

And Egwene is hardly blind to the flaws of the Aes Sedai:

 

 

 

None of this refutes my point about Egwene believing in the hype that the WT is the undisputed leader of Randland as it used to be in her predecessors time.

But it is. This isn't a matter of hype. When Rand wanted to get the rulers of the world together at FoM, it is Egwene he went to. He didn't go to Elayne and ask her to do it. He didn't get Darlin to do it. He didn't ask Gregorin to do it.

 

Like it or not, the Amyrlin Seat has been the closest to a supra-national authority in Randland for 3000 years, and that kind of continuous political tradition holds a lot of meaning.

As for the Red Ajah, how exactly could they hunt male channelers without getting destroyed now that there is a nearly 1000 strong BT who are superior in fighting with the OP. Anyone with common sense can see that!!

But Egwene never made that kind of a pragmatic calculation. After all, her first question when she went to the Tower was, "Do we have to gentle the men? Can't we do something else?" Egwene belongs to a rather large class of Aes Sedai who saw gentling male channelers as a regrettable necessity, not something to be joyful about. The moment the taint was gone, that necessity was gone. Pragmatic considerations don't enter into it. Many Reds fall in this category too. Silviana certainly did.

 

Quote please. Because I don't believe that is correct. Recognizing that the world changed is praiseworthy (see my note above) but she did in fact realize that the world changed, she didn't develop any sort of philospohical objection to gentling men. And in fact, she allows Silviana's casual misandry to go unchallenged, and even mentally agrees.

[fionwe1987]

Actually with minor exceptions like the right to items of power etc she continues to behave as her predecessors did when the general power situation has changed. The WT is no longer the undisputed leader in Randland. It was in Siuan's time but it is no longer in Egwene's time.

It is hardly minor to allow "wilders" to not only organize, but train White Tower initiates. It isn't minor to actively recruit Novices, and scrape age from being a consideration for acceptance. It isn't minor to ask the Red Ajah to stop hunting male channelers and find another job.

 

And Egwene is hardly blind to the flaws of the Aes Sedai:

 

 

 

None of this refutes my point about Egwene believing in the hype that the WT is the undisputed leader of Randland as it used to be in her predecessors time.

But it is. This isn't a matter of hype. When Rand wanted to get the rulers of the world together at FoM, it is Egwene he went to. He didn't go to Elayne and ask her to do it. He didn't get Darlin to do it. He didn't ask Gregorin to do it.

 

Like it or not, the Amyrlin Seat has been the closest to a supra-national authority in Randland for 3000 years, and that kind of continuous political tradition holds a lot of meaning.

As for the Red Ajah, how exactly could they hunt male channelers without getting destroyed now that there is a nearly 1000 strong BT who are superior in fighting with the OP. Anyone with common sense can see that!!

But Egwene never made that kind of a pragmatic calculation. After all, her first question when she went to the Tower was, "Do we have to gentle the men? Can't we do something else?" Egwene belongs to a rather large class of Aes Sedai who saw gentling male channelers as a regrettable necessity, not something to be joyful about. The moment the taint was gone, that necessity was gone. Pragmatic considerations don't enter into it. Many Reds fall in this category too. Silviana certainly did.

 

Quote please. Because I don't believe that is correct. Recognizing that the world changed is praiseworthy (see my note above) but she did in fact realize that the world changed, she didn't develop any sort of philospohical objection to gentling men. And in fact, she allows Silviana's casual misandry to go unchallenged, and even mentally agrees.

 

"Do they always have to be gentled?" she asked. Elayne stared at her, mouth agape, and she quickly added, "It is just that I'd think the Aes Sedai would find some other way to deal with them. Anaiya and Moiraine both said the greatest feats of the Age of Legends required men and women working together with the Power. I

just thought they'd try to find a way."

 

And yes, she didn't openly challenge Silviana's misandry. Would you publicly rebuke your second in command within a minute of giving them a job?

 

And here's what Egwene had to say about that:

 

"There will still be rogue channelers, Mother," Silviana said. "And men are not to be trusted."

Someday, we will have to move beyond that last sentiment, Egwene thought. But for now, it is true enough to let stand.

 

Someday, we will have to move beyond that last sentiment? That is classic WoT. Someday is going to be someday soon.

[randsc]

The quote I was looking for was one where Egwene expressed something other than a practical consideration for re-purposing the Red Ajah. I don't believe it exists.

 

And they weren't in public, they were having a private conversation. So yeah, you damn well better believe she should have been corrected, if only to set the tone for the new relationship.

[fionwe1987]

The quote I was looking for was one where Egwene expressed something other than a practical consideration for re-purposing the Red Ajah. I don't believe it exists.

No. If you want to say it was a practical consideration based on the strength of the Asha'man, you are the one who needs to provide a quote. As it is, what Egwene said was:

 

"This will be a difficult time for the Red Ajah, daughter," Egwene said. "Their nature has always been to capture men who can channel, but reports claim that saidin is cleansed."

 

Her line of argument is: you guys gentle men, but saidin is clean now. You'll have to stop. Not: You guys gentle men. But there are too many men who're too skilled to be caught. You'll have to stop now.

And they weren't in public, they were having a private conversation. So yeah, you damn well better believe she should have been corrected, if only to set the tone for the new relationship.

The Hall of the Tower is a private space?

[Suttree]

No one disputes that she will have a major role in the Last Battle. And I mean, like, NO ONE. I don't think I have ever seen anyone deny it.

 

xxx has many times...

[randsc]

No one disputes that she will have a major role in the Last Battle. And I mean, like, NO ONE. I don't think I have ever seen anyone deny it.

 

xxx has many times...

 

I've seen him dispute that the Tower is the power it once was, but not declare that it is without power or importance.

[randsc]

The quote I was looking for was one where Egwene expressed something other than a practical consideration for re-purposing the Red Ajah. I don't believe it exists.

No. If you want to say it was a practical consideration based on the strength of the Asha'man, you are the one who needs to provide a quote. As it is, what Egwene said was:

 

"This will be a difficult time for the Red Ajah, daughter," Egwene said. "Their nature has always been to capture men who can channel, but reports claim that saidin is cleansed."

 

Her line of argument is: you guys gentle men, but saidin is clean now. You'll have to stop. Not: You guys gentle men. But there are too many men who're too skilled to be caught. You'll have to stop now.

And they weren't in public, they were having a private conversation. So yeah, you damn well better believe she should have been corrected, if only to set the tone for the new relationship.

The Hall of the Tower is a private space?

 

Her argument in that is, "You guys gentle men, but now there won't be a need." Not "you'll have to stop" because it is in any way wrong. Her concerns are practical.

 

And yes, that was a private conversation (by the window, as I recall) and so correcting her would not be "publically dressin her down." That's just nonsense.

[Suttree]

No one disputes that she will have a major role in the Last Battle. And I mean, like, NO ONE. I don't think I have ever seen anyone deny it.

 

xxx has many times...

 

I've seen him dispute that the Tower is the power it once was, but not declare that it is without power or importance.

 

I've seen it claimed that Egwene is not really needed due to Rand's AS(and no not just for the sealing the Bore). It was argued that she will not play a major role. But then again xxx is kinda my version of your Kael/Elan so maybe it just stands out.

 

Her argument in that is, "You guys gentle men, but now there won't be a need." Not "you'll have to stop" because it is in any way wrong. Her concerns are practical.

 

But doesn't that go without saying? Before it wasn't wrong because it was necesitty, that has all changed.

[RandA lThor]

I think Egwene considered changing the Red Ajah to being the most connected to the BT.

[fionwe1987]

 

Her argument in that is, "You guys gentle men, but now there won't be a need." Not "you'll have to stop" because it is in any way wrong. Her concerns are practical.

How's this a "practical" concern? She's saying that with saidin clean, the Reds can't gentle men any more. Its like a police chief saying that you can't arrest these guys anymore because they aren't commiting crimes. The argument there is that you can only arrest people for commiting crimes, which is a legal and moral argument, not a practical one. The same is the case here.

And yes, that was a private conversation (by the window, as I recall) and so correcting her would not be "publically dressin her down." That's just nonsense.

Read the book again. This happens when Silviana is just named Keeper of the Chronicles. Egwene is standing by the Amyrlin Seat, and the entire Hall is watching her and Silviana.

 

Anyway, Egwene doesn't want to set that tone in her relationship with Silviana. She's just made a powerful point about working with the Reds. Asking them to change their views overnight is ridiculous, and makes her look no different from Elaida (who had no issues trying to browbeat Ajahs that had different views from hers). She would also be a fool to undermine her Keeper in front of the Hall.

[XXX]

But it is. This isn't a matter of hype. When Rand wanted to get the rulers of the world together at FoM, it is Egwene he went to. He didn't go to Elayne and ask her to do it. He didn't get Darlin to do it. He didn't ask Gregorin to do it.

 

 

Most of the people gathering are either sworn to Rand or put into their places by him. Egwene is being pretty much tricked into doing it for some reason.Not like he could not have summoned them himself. Not an great example of the AS power.

 

 

Like it or not, the Amyrlin Seat has been the closest to a supra-national authority in Randland for 3000 years, and that kind of continuous political tradition holds a lot of meaning.

 

 

The Amyrlin Seat was THE supra national authority for most of 3000 years. If Siuan wanted she could have summoned every single ruler in Rand land including the lord captain commander. Can Egwene summon Tuon or Taim or the Aiel? The WT is no more what it was.

 

But Egwene never made that kind of a pragmatic calculation. After all, her first question when she went to the Tower was, "Do we have to gentle the men? Can't we do something else?" Egwene belongs to a rather large class of Aes Sedai who saw gentling male channelers as a regrettable necessity, not something to be joyful about. The moment the taint was gone, that necessity was gone. Pragmatic considerations don't enter into it. Many Reds fall in this category too. Silviana certainly did.

 

I believe Egwene was very pragmatic. Just like she was when discussing about the items of power. She knows she cannot and does not have authority over men who can channel. I believe she made a similar decision about the red ajah. If she sent the Red Ajah to tangle with men it would end up with the Red Ajah decimated.

[XXX]

No one disputes that she will have a major role in the Last Battle. And I mean, like, NO ONE. I don't think I have ever seen anyone deny it.

 

xxx has many times...

 

I have suggested that Rand will have the greater role compared to Egwene many times.. Egwene will have some role for sure just like Perrin or Mat. Not sure when I said she will have no role at all

[Elan Tedronai]

Attempts to rationalise away the dislike people have for Egwene are so often very deeply flawed. People dislike her for a variety of reasons, some good others not so good. As a rule, they don't hate her because she's a woman, because she's ambitious, because she's opposed to Rand even. People can like or dislike both or neither - sympathy with one does not preclude or impact upon sympathy for the other. Some people have put forward well reasoned arguments of all the problems with Egwene's character - to dismiss these out of hand by claiming they only dislike her because she's ambitious or opposed to Rand is inaccurate and rude. People dislike Egwene for the flaws in her character. She has good points and bad. If people see her negatives as outweighing her positives, they will tend to like her rather less than if they see her positives outweighing her negatives. The same is true of any other character in the series, male or female.

...

 

And yet attempts to dislike Egwene are often equally flawed/overblown/full of hyperbole. Usually it's pretty easy to "rationalalize" away Egwene hate by just reading the particular passages people point to without their bias colouring the real intention. But I get your point about generalizing, I try not to do that. You usually need to ask what specific things caused that hate, then point out why they interpreted it wrong, which most of the time they did -- confirmation bias.

 

An interesting though with regards to Egwene hate - while it is certainly nothing new, it has not always been so prominent. Elayne and Faile hate seems not to be as common now as it used to be, while Egwene hate has gotten worse. Maybe it's just an inaccurate perecption on my part. Maybe Egwne hate really has gotten worse while the others have gotten better.

 

Maybe there's only so much hate to go around, and if Egwene is picking up more of it, then Faille naturally collects less.

 

 

It has been suggested that Brandon's Egwene, in particular in Towers of Midnight, has been off character, much like Mat in tGS is said to be. Particularly his poor handling of the TAR scene with Perrin and Egwene. This is what has been said, not necessarily my views.

 

Yeah , I also find this scene being written with a bit of Perrin favouritism . We , WoT fans , all know that Perrin is BS's most related character and he did not keep himself from making him looking better than other characters supposed to interact with him . Like Elayne when he came to negotiate with her or Galad in their Parlez-vous , Egwene in their TAR meeting is just one of those examples .

 

Indeed, he has admitted he was trying to make Perrin as awesome as possible (to make up for the negative perception that was gained in the Shaido Arc, most likely.)

 

But it is not just that scene, throughout the whole book there seems to be the trend of character v character. Which one gets the upper hand. Unfortunately for Egwene, she gets the brunt of it, with her v Gawyn, Rand, Perrin, Wise Ones and Sea Folk, Nynaeve, Mesaana (although this was a Forsaken, but still, it followed the same tradition)

 

Of course, there are multiple ways this can be viewed.

 

You see, I would have had more respect for Sanderson if he had defended, or simply allowed to stand, what was written in the TAR scene between Egwene and Perrin. Trying to explain away the plain language of the text because it resulted in some blowback in fandom is unfortunate. OF COURSE Egwene was trying to tie Perrin up and leave him. It's right there in the text. OF COURSE it is legitimate to question whether that was an admirable thing to do. Just leave both of those standing, don't try to create a revisionist history in which she was just about to whisk him away somewhere safe.

 

And now randsc is trying to argue that the author is wrong. Which I'm fairly certain I got blasted for in the blademaster thread, and I wasn't even arguing he was wrong, just that he was making a different point. Randsc is pulling out full blown conspiracy theories. And such large claims require significant evidence, of which there is none. I read the scene exactly as Brandon described it. I'm sorry if your twisted view screwed it up. You can certainly try to claim my bias changed my view, but it's still the view that lines up with with the author said he intended.... so yeah.... I mean assuming Egwene was just going to leave him there to be killed or something is ridiculous. There's no evidence or suggestion of that. Brandon is probably shocked anyone would consider that would be her intention since there's no suggestion she is that type of person ANYWHERE IN THE SERIES, unless you're bat shit crazy and irrationally hate her for no rational reason.

 

I never cared much for egwene for most of the series. That changed until book 6 when those goons installed her as a puppet amyrlin with the intention of using her a shield against elaida. Coupled that her decision to help free logain in the face of her detractors and slapping the sweat out of the black ajah and the seanchan alike meant her being my fave character is a no brainer.

 

The only one out of the emond's fielders who fought against the odds to reach the top. No prophecies, visions, pattern, destiny BS or anything like that. It was sheer determination, patience, hard work and a little bit of brains

 

Exactly. Again, traits that are very popular today as drivers of the economy, inventors, innovators, entrepreneurs, but very unpopular in a book for some odd reason. How dare she try and succeed! She must be a mary-sue because everyone must fail at everything they ever do unless there's prophecy or divine intervetion to make everything work out!

 

<sarcasm>

Mark Zuckerberg is only 27, but when facebook goes public he'll have billions. Clearly he's far too young to be worth billions. He must be a Marty-sue! how totally impossible and unrealistic. There's no way he could exist in real life. I hate him with a passion. He should be struggling to get a job

like every other 27 year old, anything else is unbelivable.

 

Oh and if you criticize my dislike of Mark, then you are calling me sexist against men! I don't care what your actual point is because I won't read it anyway.

</sarcasm>

 

the mary sue description is a typical projectionism made by her detractors on this site. It's really worthless and pointless to even debate this point.

 

Legends of another age who were famed in power and skill at a time when powerful aes sedai were dime a dozen looked liked my local clowns on a sunday afternoon when they fought a bumbling shepherder who had no clue about the power.

 

A man who who tended to milking and being the occasional blacksmith is suddenly killing men who have been fighting since they were young in a warrior society.

 

But oh my God a young aes sedai decided to share her advice with an older one in regards to her warder. Stop the presses.

 

It's really irrelevant at this point.

[muddasssir]

Ok its 4.38 am in Lahore and I haven't slept in 80 hours and I have rad all 5 pages of it. A very long time ago I decided that I am not going to respond to kael and it seems like fionwe is going to join the club I mean that post by kael was rally over the top. Where are moderators or can I answer in kind?

[XXX]

Attempts to rationalise away the dislike people have for Egwene are so often very deeply flawed. People dislike her for a variety of reasons, some good others not so good. As a rule, they don't hate her because she's a woman, because she's ambitious, because she's opposed to Rand even. People can like or dislike both or neither - sympathy with one does not preclude or impact upon sympathy for the other. Some people have put forward well reasoned arguments of all the problems with Egwene's character - to dismiss these out of hand by claiming they only dislike her because she's ambitious or opposed to Rand is inaccurate and rude. People dislike Egwene for the flaws in her character. She has good points and bad. If people see her negatives as outweighing her positives, they will tend to like her rather less than if they see her positives outweighing her negatives. The same is true of any other character in the series, male or female.

...

 

And yet attempts to dislike Egwene are often equally flawed/overblown/full of hyperbole. Usually it's pretty easy to "rationalalize" away Egwene hate by just reading the particular passages people point to without their bias colouring the real intention. But I get your point about generalizing, I try not to do that. You usually need to ask what specific things caused that hate, then point out why they interpreted it wrong, which most of the time they did -- confirmation bias.

 

An interesting though with regards to Egwene hate - while it is certainly nothing new, it has not always been so prominent. Elayne and Faile hate seems not to be as common now as it used to be, while Egwene hate has gotten worse. Maybe it's just an inaccurate perecption on my part. Maybe Egwne hate really has gotten worse while the others have gotten better.

 

Maybe there's only so much hate to go around, and if Egwene is picking up more of it, then Faille naturally collects less.

 

 

It has been suggested that Brandon's Egwene, in particular in Towers of Midnight, has been off character, much like Mat in tGS is said to be. Particularly his poor handling of the TAR scene with Perrin and Egwene. This is what has been said, not necessarily my views.

 

Yeah , I also find this scene being written with a bit of Perrin favouritism . We , WoT fans , all know that Perrin is BS's most related character and he did not keep himself from making him looking better than other characters supposed to interact with him . Like Elayne when he came to negotiate with her or Galad in their Parlez-vous , Egwene in their TAR meeting is just one of those examples .

 

Indeed, he has admitted he was trying to make Perrin as awesome as possible (to make up for the negative perception that was gained in the Shaido Arc, most likely.)

 

But it is not just that scene, throughout the whole book there seems to be the trend of character v character. Which one gets the upper hand. Unfortunately for Egwene, she gets the brunt of it, with her v Gawyn, Rand, Perrin, Wise Ones and Sea Folk, Nynaeve, Mesaana (although this was a Forsaken, but still, it followed the same tradition)

 

Of course, there are multiple ways this can be viewed.

 

You see, I would have had more respect for Sanderson if he had defended, or simply allowed to stand, what was written in the TAR scene between Egwene and Perrin. Trying to explain away the plain language of the text because it resulted in some blowback in fandom is unfortunate. OF COURSE Egwene was trying to tie Perrin up and leave him. It's right there in the text. OF COURSE it is legitimate to question whether that was an admirable thing to do. Just leave both of those standing, don't try to create a revisionist history in which she was just about to whisk him away somewhere safe.

 

And now randsc is trying to argue that the author is wrong. Which I'm fairly certain I got blasted for in the blademaster thread, and I wasn't even arguing he was wrong, just that he was making a different point. Randsc is pulling out full blown conspiracy theories. And such large claims require significant evidence, of which there is none. I read the scene exactly as Brandon described it. I'm sorry if your twisted view screwed it up. You can certainly try to claim my bias changed my view, but it's still the view that lines up with with the author said he intended.... so yeah.... I mean assuming Egwene was just going to leave him there to be killed or something is ridiculous. There's no evidence or suggestion of that. Brandon is probably shocked anyone would consider that would be her intention since there's no suggestion she is that type of person ANYWHERE IN THE SERIES, unless you're bat shit crazy and irrationally hate her for no rational reason.

 

I never cared much for egwene for most of the series. That changed until book 6 when those goons installed her as a puppet amyrlin with the intention of using her a shield against elaida. Coupled that her decision to help free logain in the face of her detractors and slapping the sweat out of the black ajah and the seanchan alike meant her being my fave character is a no brainer.

 

The only one out of the emond's fielders who fought against the odds to reach the top. No prophecies, visions, pattern, destiny BS or anything like that. It was sheer determination, patience, hard work and a little bit of brains

 

Exactly. Again, traits that are very popular today as drivers of the economy, inventors, innovators, entrepreneurs, but very unpopular in a book for some odd reason. How dare she try and succeed! She must be a mary-sue because everyone must fail at everything they ever do unless there's prophecy or divine intervetion to make everything work out!

 

<sarcasm>

Mark Zuckerberg is only 27, but when facebook goes public he'll have billions. Clearly he's far too young to be worth billions. He must be a Marty-sue! how totally impossible and unrealistic. There's no way he could exist in real life. I hate him with a passion. He should be struggling to get a job

like every other 27 year old, anything else is unbelivable.

 

Oh and if you criticize my dislike of Mark, then you are calling me sexist against men! I don't care what your actual point is because I won't read it anyway.

</sarcasm>

 

the mary sue description is a typical projectionism made by her detractors on this site. It's really worthless and pointless to even debate this point.

 

Legends of another age who were famed in power and skill at a time when powerful aes sedai were dime a dozen looked liked my local clowns on a sunday afternoon when they fought a bumbling shepherder who had no clue about the power.

 

A man who who tended to milking and being the occasional blacksmith is suddenly killing men who have been fighting since they were young in a warrior society.

 

But oh my God a young aes sedai decided to share her advice with an older one in regards to her warder. Stop the presses.

 

It's really irrelevant at this point.

 

Rand protected by pattern and having the voice of the greatest AS of all times in his head.

 

What are the reasons for Egwene's awesomeness?

[Suttree]

please delete

[Suttree]

A very long time ago I decided that I am not going to respond to kael and it seems like fionwe is going to join the club...

 

Fionwe has been making rational posts supported by evidence from the text. You may disagree with his interpretation but at least he offers support. That is more than can be said for most of the hyperbole and vitriol that get's tossed around in posts by the extreme on both sides.

 

 

I have suggested that Rand will have the greater role compared to Egwene many times.. Egwene will have some role for sure just like Perrin or Mat. Not sure when I said she will have no role at all

 

Randsc said a "major role", you have made statements indicating Rand doesn't need her help and that she would not play a large role many times.

[fionwe1987]

Most of the people gathering are either sworn to Rand or put into their places by him. Egwene is being pretty much tricked into doing it for some reason.Not like he could not have summoned them himself. Not an great example of the AS power.

Of course Rand manipulated her. I never said otherwise. But he manipulated her. He could have asked one of the rulers sworn to him to do it. If he wanted to not appear to favor those, he could have asked Elayne to do it. Why take the risk of antagonizing Egwene (and from his conversation with Nynaeve, he clearly doesn't want Egwene pissed with him) to achieve something he could achieve himself with a few words and a few gateways?

 

The obvious answer lies in something Rand said elsewhere:

 

"It came too close to a confrontation between us," Rand said. "That must happen at Shayol Ghul, and at the right time. I cannot afford to let him provoke me. Bashere is right. Nor can I afford to let the men assume that I will always be able to step in and save them."

 

"Perhaps," Bashere said. "But what you did today . . ."

Rand shook his head. "I am not to fight this war, Bashere. Today's battle exhausted me beyond what I should have allowed. If my enemies were to come upon me now, I'd be finished. Besides, I can only fight in one place at a time. What is coming will be grander than that, grander and more terrible than any one man could hope to hold back. I will organize you, but I must leave you. The war will be yours."

He fell silent, and Flinn stepped through the gateway, letting it slide closed.

 

That's the key here. By instigating Egwene into uniting all the rulers together, with that unity not coming from oaths or coercion, but over common cause, he has ensured that he can focus his attention on the part of the Last Battle that is his: The resealing of the Bore.

 

At FoM, I think Rand will announce that he is immovable on the Seals, and in exchange for going to SG, his demands are:

1) The armies work as a united front, under the supreme command of Mat (and maybe Perrin), instead of being scattered forces for the Shadow to pull down one by one (as happened in the Trolloc Wars).

2) That Egwene be the political head of this alliance, and in charge of smoothing tensions, logistics, etc.

 

And Rand also likely has another motive to wish for this. He knows the Aes Sedai are the only organization with experience in dealing with the aftermath of a ruinous war with the Shadow. They've done it twice before, and by tying to nations to the White Tower strongly, he makes sure that the post-war healing of the land will go more smoothly.

 

What's more, somewhere in the back of her mind, Egwene seems to be aware of part of this:

 

Obliquely, she realized what she was doing. She was using Rand's proclamation as a beacon by which to gather and tie the monarchs to the White Tower. They would come to support her arguments against breaking the seals. But in the end, they would serve

humankind in the Last Battle.

 

Rand knows he may not be around for ever, and nor does he wish to be leader and politician for the rest of his life if he survives. Which is why he want to the one person, and one organization, that he knew could be trusted to want this and that had the resources and the experience to achieve this.

 

The Amyrlin Seat was THE supra national authority for most of 3000 years. If Siuan wanted she could have summoned every single ruler in Rand land including the lord captain commander. Can Egwene summon Tuon or Taim or the Aiel? The WT is no more what it was.

The Amyrlin could never summon the Aiel, and wouldn't have ever wanted to summon a Dreadlord. As for Tuon, no Egwene can't summon her, but Tuon is worried day and night about the Tower and ending its control, which is indicative of how powerful the WT is within Randland.

 

And do remember the Prophesy that the White Tower would be whole and stronger than ever. That is an inevitable result of the events now transpiring, and arguing against it seems futile.

I believe Egwene was very pragmatic. Just like she was when discussing about the items of power. She knows she cannot and does not have authority over men who can channel.

It wasn't just the pragmatic consideration that drove her here:

 

"Will we insist that all angreal and sa'angreal created for men belong to us, though we cannot use them? What if there are Asha'man who learn to create objects of Power? Will we force them to give up everything they create to us? Could we enforce that?"

 

Egwene makes a clear distinction between "will" and "could". She doesn't think they can force Asha'man to not use angreal, nor does she think it is right to.

 

I believe she made a similar decision about the red ajah. If she sent the Red Ajah to tangle with men it would end up with the Red Ajah decimated.

So, your argument is that if the Red Ajah could get away with gentling the men, she would be okay with that happening? When she couldn't stomach a False Dragon being stilled or killed?

[fionwe1987]

Rand protected by pattern and having the voice of the greatest AS of all times in his head.

And Egwene, Elayne, Nynaeve, etc. are not protected by the Pattern? And Rand didn't have LTT's voice in his head in the beginning, yet he did spectacular things.

What are the reasons for Egwene's awesomeness?

Great skill in the Power, immense thirst to learn, a quick feel for politics, the ability to listen to her advisors, the strength of will to get things done. The qualities that great young leaders usually display.

[Halleck]

I really like how Egwene desires leadership so she can take the responsibility of making the world better. The problem with that is how arrogant she is about it. She is far too young to solve a lot of problems she will encounter and in her POV's we don't see the amount of self doubt that say Moraine or Siuan had.

[RandA lThor]

I like Egwene especially because of her strength of will to get things done. When she was in the WT, she became one of my favorite characters. Being able to stand up to regular beatings and turn the WT back by herself at the same time just is awesome.

[Suttree]

Great skill in the Power, immense thirst to learn, a quick feel for politics, the ability to listen to her advisors, the strength of will to get things done. The qualities that great young leaders usually display.

 

Not to mention more training towards her various skills with Moriaine, Siuan, the WO's, the Seanchan etc than any other five characters put together. Let me be clear, I am not saying all of it is 100% believable. But the base for how it came about is there.

[Sheepherder]

Great skill in the Power, immense thirst to learn, a quick feel for politics, the ability to listen to her advisors, the strength of will to get things done. The qualities that great young leaders usually display.

 

Not to mention more training towards her various skills with Moriaine, Siuan, the WO's, the Seanchan etc than any other five characters put together. Let me be clear, I am not saying all of it is 100% believable. But the base for how it came about is there.

 

Also, something often overlooked, is her training to be the next wisdom. Yes, the Two Rivers is small potatoes comparitively but she was being taught from a very young age how to manipulate both the city council and the women's circle which would have made her mind more prone to picking up the lessons learnt later on.