Who is the most underrated Character in WoT?

[randsc]

Berelain sur Paendrag Paeron, Blessed of the Light, Defender of the Waves, High Seat of House Paeron, First of Mayene. Not only is she one of my favourite characters, but she also plays a fairly important role once she's introduced at the end of tDR. Apart from a few slip-ups, mainly her failed attempts at seduction of Rand and Perrin, plus Colavaere's coup in Cairhien, she has otherwise been extremely valuable to Rand and Perrin. Stewardship of Cairhien, sending the Winged Guards to help rescue Rand, providing proof of Colaveare's treachery and her accomplices, helps brings Alliendre (and Ghealdan) into fealty with Perrin, helps negotiate with the Seanchan and rescue Faile. I think of her as the 'first' of the second level of 'light' characters, in that I can't recall a specific POV chapter from her (I might be wrong but there can't be too many). I think she may ultimately be very important if Rand is to make a proper alliance with the Seachan, as her ancestry will be respected by them. She achieves a lot with fairly limited resources, and what she does achieve is often in-spite of her obvious 'attributes'.

 

^ This.

 

And her new boy-toy, too.

[bigdoug1971]

Thom Merrilin and Bashere. If we'd seen more of the borderlanders then maybe another leader from there as well. But for me, Thom and Bashere are definitely underrated.

[RandA lThor]

definitely Leane. She has done so much to help Siuan and be a partner, but she is seen as an assistant.

[Sephie913]

Have you read TGS and ToM?

Asunawa is dead, killed by the Lord Captains, after which Galad became Lord Captain Commander.

 

Really? I don't remember that, was it off-screen? (I've only read ToM once, and that was kinda a speed-read.) In that case, disregard.

 

Berelain and Hanlon are underrated. Though both of the people that matter in Berelain's instance (Perrin and Rand) appreciate--don't read too much into this--what she's done, the fans generally don't. And not even the Shadow really sees what Hanlon can do. sure, he's given more important tasks, he's only patted on the head rather than truly rewarded.

 

I'm not sure that Thom or Bashere can be said to be underrated. Main characters are constantly going to them for support, and the fans certainly know how cool they are. But I think Thom still has something up his sleeve, if that's what you're getting at.

 

I think Tam is underrated. That depends on whether or not he earned his heron-marked sword--the books suggest he did--but either way, he's one of the best archers in the Two Rivers, which means ANYWHERE, he's an insightful tactician, he has a mind for polotics, and he has a certain ease around AS that suggests he's spent time around them before. (I don't remember whether it specifically says he has, but that's the vibe I get.) No one knows much about him, but only Perrin sees what he can really do.

[Durinax]

Tam's definitely underrated, he kicks serious ass, he is the only non major or high ranking minor character to get command of an army. Every other person who is in command of an army is either introduced as a general, or a lord or a major character

 

I think to the fans that perrin is quite underrated, I know that peoples main gripe is that he said 'he would give the world to the DO' but I think often they forget faile is the only piece of family he has left. As for the whining about being a lord, all of them did it, Rand the most (but accepted it fastest), Mat still whines that he ain't no lord (it is just seen in more of a comedic light so it passed off), and Perrin accepted it now

[Maleshub]

I think to the fans that perrin is quite underrated, I know that peoples main gripe is that he said 'he would give the world to the DO' but I think often they forget faile is the only piece of family he has left.

 

And Tuon's/Fortuona's only family left is Matrim Cauthon. But she doesn't give up the Empire or her duty to her people for him.

[Durinax]

I think to the fans that perrin is quite underrated, I know that peoples main gripe is that he said 'he would give the world to the DO' but I think often they forget faile is the only piece of family he has left.

 

And Tuon's/Fortuona's only family left is Matrim Cauthon. But she doesn't give up the Empire or her duty to her people for him.

to be fair Tuon has executed her own family. She is not part of a traditional family (unlike perrin) her family structure is based that you kill everyone weaker than you so you can become emperor/empress. So she is less effected than perrin who has a strong family connection

[Sheepherder]

I think to the fans that perrin is quite underrated, I know that peoples main gripe is that he said 'he would give the world to the DO' but I think often they forget faile is the only piece of family he has left.

 

And Tuon's/Fortuona's only family left is Matrim Cauthon. But she doesn't give up the Empire or her duty to her people for him.

 

But Tuon isn't even sure how she feels about Mat. She married him due to a foretelling and to help her empire not for love. I'm not a personal fan of Perrin's sacrifice the world for Faile mentality but I don't think you can compare those two relationships.

[TristanWebb]

Paitr from Four Kings. He failed because he was too scared to do anything, then he went all the way to Amador and probably could of got Morgase out of the city before he got caught chanting his oaths to the DO in a group of other stupid DF.

 

He would of risen far if he wasn't an idiot.

[Suttree]

to be fair Tuon has executed her own family.

 

Struggles for control(and the subsequent deaths) with a couple siblings is not the same thing as "executing her own family".

[Durinax]

to be fair Tuon has executed her own family.

 

Struggles for control(and the subsequent deaths) with a couple siblings is not the same thing as "executing her own family".

she says she has ordered the death of her siblings, but she justifies it by saying that they started it. This does not show the family dynamic that perrin has thus their situations are not really comparable

[Suttree]

to be fair Tuon has executed her own family.

 

Struggles for control(and the subsequent deaths) with a couple siblings is not the same thing as "executing her own family".

she says she has ordered the death of her siblings, but she justifies it by saying that they started it. This does not show the family dynamic that perrin has thus their situations are not really comparable

 

You have no idea what her relationship was like with her mother or siblings beyond the stories about a couple siblings we have heard to make that judgement.

[Maleshub]

to be fair Tuon has executed her own family. She is not part of a traditional family (unlike perrin) her family structure is based that you kill everyone weaker than you so you can become emperor/empress. So she is less effected than perrin who has a strong family connection

 

Semirhage executed the Imperial family. Tuon lost 3 sisters and her mother to that. She is the only surviving member of her family. My point is that she is less affected by raw emotions than Perrin. She can control her emotions; unlike him! And the Seanchan are a heavily militarized society like the Aiel, who see death as waking from a dream. These societies cope with death differently than more "civilian-oriented" societies. But they still have their emotions; they do not lack them.

 

And she didn't let her emotions cloud her head or affect her duty to her people. On the contrary, she's done very well in such a short time as Heiress and then Empress.

 

But Tuon isn't even sure how she feels about Mat. She married him due to a foretelling and to help her empire not for love. I'm not a personal fan of Perrin's sacrifice the world for Faile mentality but I don't think you can compare those two relationships.

 

All relationships (the ones of major characters) are foretold: Rand and his women, Perrin and Faile, Mat and Tuon, Berelain and Galad, etc. So, that doesn't detract from Tuon's decision to marry the man she was foretold to marry (who only started courting her because of a foretelling).

 

In any case, Tuon has had a very sheltered life. And this is her first romance. But we read about her feelings that she felt safe with Mat; that she felt safer with him than in Ebou Dar or Falme surrounded by her symbols of power; and she wished that he was with her. She is new to love and is coming to terms with it. And my personal opinion is that she's in love even if she doesn't admit it yet.

[Sheepherder]

 

But Tuon isn't even sure how she feels about Mat. She married him due to a foretelling and to help her empire not for love. I'm not a personal fan of Perrin's sacrifice the world for Faile mentality but I don't think you can compare those two relationships.

 

All relationships (the ones of major characters) are foretold: Rand and his women, Perrin and Faile, Mat and Tuon, Berelain and Galad, etc. So, that doesn't detract from Tuon's decision to marry the man she was foretold to marry (who only started courting her because of a foretelling).

 

In any case, Tuon has had a very sheltered life. And this is her first romance. But we read about her feelings that she felt safe with Mat; that she felt safer with him than in Ebou Dar or Falme surrounded by her symbols of power; and she wished that he was with her. She is new to love and is coming to terms with it. And my personal opinion is that she's in love even if she doesn't admit it yet.

 

Yes, I know Mat went through with the marriage due to a foretelling as well but that wasn't the point I was making. Perrin didnt marry Faile because min told him about a falcon in his future (I'm pretty sure she never said he would marry that falcon, correct?). He married her because he loved her deeply. I agree that Tuon is developing feelings for Mat but you can't honestly tell me they are anywhere near what Perrin feels for Faile which was what the original comparison is about. Again, I don't agree with Perrin's philosophy but I don't think the Mat/Tuon relationship is the best one to use for a comparison.

[Maleshub]

But Tuon isn't even sure how she feels about Mat. She married him due to a foretelling and to help her empire not for love. I'm not a personal fan of Perrin's sacrifice the world for Faile mentality but I don't think you can compare those two relationships.

 

All relationships (the ones of major characters) are foretold: Rand and his women, Perrin and Faile, Mat and Tuon, Berelain and Galad, etc. So, that doesn't detract from Tuon's decision to marry the man she was foretold to marry (who only started courting her because of a foretelling).

 

In any case, Tuon has had a very sheltered life. And this is her first romance. But we read about her feelings that she felt safe with Mat; that she felt safer with him than in Ebou Dar or Falme surrounded by her symbols of power; and she wished that he was with her. She is new to love and is coming to terms with it. And my personal opinion is that she's in love even if she doesn't admit it yet.

 

Yes, I know Mat went through with the marriage due to a foretelling as well but that wasn't the point I was making. Perrin didnt marry Faile because min told him about a falcon in his future (I'm pretty sure she never said he would marry that falcon, correct?). He married her because he loved her deeply. I agree that Tuon is developing feelings for Mat but you can't honestly tell me they are anywhere near what Perrin feels for Faile which was what the original comparison is about. Again, I don't agree with Perrin's philosophy but I don't think the Mat/Tuon relationship is the best one to use for a comparison.

 

The point is that there was another character in the books who lost all her family and didn't react by making herself an appendage to her husband. She didn't let her loss affect her duty to her people. She didn't let her personal priorities take precedence over the priorities of her people. She didn't value one life over thousands of others.

[Sheepherder]

 

 

Yes, I know Mat went through with the marriage due to a foretelling as well but that wasn't the point I was making. Perrin didnt marry Faile because min told him about a falcon in his future (I'm pretty sure she never said he would marry that falcon, correct?). He married her because he loved her deeply. I agree that Tuon is developing feelings for Mat but you can't honestly tell me they are anywhere near what Perrin feels for Faile which was what the original comparison is about. Again, I don't agree with Perrin's philosophy but I don't think the Mat/Tuon relationship is the best one to use for a comparison.

 

The point is that there was another character in the books who lost all her family and didn't react by making herself an appendage to her husband. She didn't let her loss affect her duty to her people. She didn't let her personal priorities take precedence over the priorities of her people. She didn't value one life over thousands of others.

 

Fair enough. What it really boils down to for me is that, from the relavent POV's and descriptions, I really don't see Tuon's familial relationships or her relationship with mat to be anywhere near as deep as what Perrin had with his family or with Faile. So, the psychological effect of losing her family or Mat are not comparible to Perrin's loss of his family or his fanatical attachment to Faile. That is personal opinion, though, for Tuon's feelings so I guess we can agree to disagree on if her world view is a valid comparison to Perrin's.

[Maleshub]

Fair enough. What it really boils down to for me is that, from the relavent POV's and descriptions, I really don't see Tuon's familial relationships or her relationship with mat to be anywhere near as deep as what Perrin had with his family or with Faile. So, the psychological effect of losing her family or Mat are not comparible to Perrin's loss of his family or his fanatical attachment to Faile. That is personal opinion, though, for Tuon's feelings so I guess we can agree to disagree on if her world view is a valid comparison to Perrin's.

 

We can agree to disagree; and the books and scenes can be read differently by different readers and even differently by the same reader. But I think it is a mistake to deny basic human emotions in a particular culture as compared to others. Generally speaking, humans love their families; and mourn their loss. There are individual differences where one person loves more or less and mourns more or less. But the concept is the same in all cultures, even if it is expressed differently.

[Sheepherder]

Fair enough. What it really boils down to for me is that, from the relavent POV's and descriptions, I really don't see Tuon's familial relationships or her relationship with mat to be anywhere near as deep as what Perrin had with his family or with Faile. So, the psychological effect of losing her family or Mat are not comparible to Perrin's loss of his family or his fanatical attachment to Faile. That is personal opinion, though, for Tuon's feelings so I guess we can agree to disagree on if her world view is a valid comparison to Perrin's.

 

We can agree to disagree; and the books and scenes can be read differently by different readers and even differently by the same reader. But I think it is a mistake to deny basic human emotions in a particular culture as compared to others. Generally speaking, humans love their families; and mourn their loss. There are individual differences where one person loves more or less and mourns more or less. But the concept is the same in all cultures, even if it is expressed differently.

 

Hey now, I was in no way denying the presence of basic human emotion in the Seanchan society as a whole. I fully believe on a general basis their family connections are just as strong as the wetlanders. I was speaking specifically of Tuon's family relationships based on specific POV's and descriptions.

 

I have personally known people who had very non cordial relations with relatives as close as parents or siblings, enough that losing said family member would not have effected them very negatively. I would in no way use those people as an exapmle of dealing with loss in comparison with other friends who lost a close loved one, just as I wouldn't use Tuon as a benchmark for Perrin.

 

This has gotten far off the original topic though so I'll stop arguing the point

[Maleshub]

Fair enough. What it really boils down to for me is that, from the relavent POV's and descriptions, I really don't see Tuon's familial relationships or her relationship with mat to be anywhere near as deep as what Perrin had with his family or with Faile. So, the psychological effect of losing her family or Mat are not comparible to Perrin's loss of his family or his fanatical attachment to Faile. That is personal opinion, though, for Tuon's feelings so I guess we can agree to disagree on if her world view is a valid comparison to Perrin's.

 

We can agree to disagree; and the books and scenes can be read differently by different readers and even differently by the same reader. But I think it is a mistake to deny basic human emotions in a particular culture as compared to others. Generally speaking, humans love their families; and mourn their loss. There are individual differences where one person loves more or less and mourns more or less. But the concept is the same in all cultures, even if it is expressed differently.

 

Hey now, I was in no way denying the presence of basic human emotion in the Seanchan society as a whole. I fully believe on a general basis their family connections are just as strong as the wetlanders. I was speaking specifically of Tuon's family relationships based on specific POV's and descriptions.

 

I have personally known people who had very non cordial relations with relatives as close as parents or siblings, enough that losing said family member would not have effected them very negatively. I would in no way use those people as an exapmle of dealing with loss in comparison with other friends who lost a close loved one, just as I wouldn't use Tuon as a benchmark for Perrin.

 

This has gotten far off the original topic though so I'll stop arguing the point

 

Sorry if my post sounded as an accusation. That was not the intention at all. I was just pointing to a general mistake or stereotype.

[Sheepherder]

No worries. I just wanted to be clear that I was not a Raven Basher on principal

[Durinax]

But Tuon isn't even sure how she feels about Mat. She married him due to a foretelling and to help her empire not for love. I'm not a personal fan of Perrin's sacrifice the world for Faile mentality but I don't think you can compare those two relationships.

 

All relationships (the ones of major characters) are foretold: Rand and his women, Perrin and Faile, Mat and Tuon, Berelain and Galad, etc. So, that doesn't detract from Tuon's decision to marry the man she was foretold to marry (who only started courting her because of a foretelling).

 

In any case, Tuon has had a very sheltered life. And this is her first romance. But we read about her feelings that she felt safe with Mat; that she felt safer with him than in Ebou Dar or Falme surrounded by her symbols of power; and she wished that he was with her. She is new to love and is coming to terms with it. And my personal opinion is that she's in love even if she doesn't admit it yet.

 

Yes, I know Mat went through with the marriage due to a foretelling as well but that wasn't the point I was making. Perrin didnt marry Faile because min told him about a falcon in his future (I'm pretty sure she never said he would marry that falcon, correct?). He married her because he loved her deeply. I agree that Tuon is developing feelings for Mat but you can't honestly tell me they are anywhere near what Perrin feels for Faile which was what the original comparison is about. Again, I don't agree with Perrin's philosophy but I don't think the Mat/Tuon relationship is the best one to use for a comparison.

 

The point is that there was another character in the books who lost all her family and didn't react by making herself an appendage to her husband. She didn't let her loss affect her duty to her people. She didn't let her personal priorities take precedence over the priorities of her people. She didn't value one life over thousands of others.

thought I would nitpick here, it isnt faile that made herself an appendage to Perrin, it was Perrin who gave her so much importance to him.

 

and we also havent seen a comparable situation between mat and Tuon because we would need to see mat captured or some such in order to allow for a similar situation. Although what was interesting is during one of Tuon's povs she wonders "what it will be like to not have to conspire against her husband" or something very close to that.

[randsc]

to be fair Tuon has executed her own family.

 

Struggles for control(and the subsequent deaths) with a couple siblings is not the same thing as "executing her own family".

she says she has ordered the death of her siblings, but she justifies it by saying that they started it. This does not show the family dynamic that perrin has thus their situations are not really comparable

 

You have no idea what her relationship was like with her mother or siblings beyond the stories about a couple siblings we have heard to make that judgement.

 

Actually, we do know that she felt no particular attachment to her mother.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Besides, Tuon was born to be an Empress, that kind of mess was expected, even if it still affected her.

Tuon was forced to kill her own siblings and watch them die in political struggles, which was expected.

Any of her close friends/family are unknown or safe.

 

Perrin was born in a simple village as a simple farmer wanting to be a simple blacksmith.

A bunch of Trollocs came and ate his family.

His wife is captured by a heap of red-veiled savages who have a reputation for nastiness.

 

Hardly comparable.

[Sheepherder]

Is the Tuon/Perrin debate seriously still going on? I apologize for playing a role in so drastically derailing this thread. I'll try to get it bak on track even though all my choices have already been said so I'll use a less serious choice:

 

Bela is the most underrated character. I mean she's the Creator and all anyone seems to think she is good for is getting from point A to point B

[Maleshub]

thought I would nitpick here, it isnt faile that made herself an appendage to Perrin, it was Perrin who gave her so much importance to him.

 

and we also havent seen a comparable situation between mat and Tuon because we would need to see mat captured or some such in order to allow for a similar situation. Although what was interesting is during one of Tuon's povs she wonders "what it will be like to not have to conspire against her husband" or something very close to that.

 

I was comparing Tuon to Perrin, who made himself an appendage to Faile. As to seeing how Tuon would react to Mat being captured or vice versa, we'll have to pray for the 3 outriggers to be published to have a chance at that. And we could go into a bit of psychoanalysis to spice things up; but that would derail the thread way too far.

 

So, I'll just leave it at that. Tuon and Perrin are the lone survivors in their families. Their reactions differed. And I know that their situations aren't 100% compatible; but it would be boring if they were.

 

On to Bela, she's definitely underrated. She's a survivor!