Who is the most underrated Character in WoT?

[Sephie913]

Who gets too little credit, living or dead?

 

Note I am not asking who will have a bigger impact than is assumed. Just who is/was more capable/powerful/knowledgable than is shown.

 

My first thought was Be'lal. Only appears in one book(besides some dream-meeting, I believe), and only a chapter or two, at that. He doesn't succeed at anything he attempts. All his plans are foiled, and it doesn't seem like he had any plans beyond luring Rand to his death.

 

On the other hand, he was counted as one of the greatest strategists in AoL, was in fact the leader against the DO before he turned. And in fact, with the knowledge he had (Ishy didn't see fit to give him insider info) Be'lal made a plan that SHOULD have worked. Lure Rand to Tear, wait for Rand to draw the Sword, and kill him before he figures out how to use it, claiming Callandor and getting rid of LTT in one fell swoop. Not to mention dealing with the Wonder Girls quite efficiently, taking Moiraine into acount and taking her out.

 

The only thing he didn't account for was Faile. In other words, the Pattern was against him. He might have been one of the book-spanning adversaries (I found him more intimidating than Sammael OR Demandred, truthfully) or even ended the series before it really began, had Faile not triggered the trap meant for Moiraine.

 

That's my bid. Who do YOU think is underestimated?

[Roxinos]

...it doesn't seem like he had any plans beyond luring Rand to his death.

 

Of course he did. He wanted Callandor. Which he would use to become Nae'blis.

[kght22]

well if you start it with a forsaken i would say aginor, even reborn or reconstituted as halima/aren'gar his genious was realy never used, or at least apparent in anything he did, and maybe it was impossible for him to use his genious. but i think it would have been awesome if he had taken the time to mature the worms in the waste.

[TristanWebb]

I thought Aginor was Dashiva and Balthamel was Halima.

 

But yeah, Be'lal shouldn't of been Balefired, he had such an interesting backstory that we learnt from Loial like 10 minutes before he was gone forever, would of been nice to have him back weaving nets rather than someone who rubs Egwene's head for 3 books then runs off.

[kght22]

I thought Aginor was Dashiva and Balthamel was Halima.

 

But yeah, Be'lal shouldn't of been Balefired, he had such an interesting backstory that we learnt from Loial like 10 minutes before he was gone forever, would of been nice to have him back weaving nets rather than someone who rubs Egwene's head for 3 books then runs off.

yah i was thinking about that when i posted, i might have got them backwards. but as dashiva or halima aginor got a poopy 3rd age.

[TristanWebb]

yah i was thinking about that when i posted, i might have got them backwards. but as dashiva or halima aginor got a poopy 3rd age.

Atleast Dashiva got to do some stuff and interact directly with Rand. All Halima did was make Egwene's head hurt, which in turn made -my- head hurt with all the whining she did. And kill a couple of people who could of found out who she was of course.

[kght22]

yah i was thinking about that when i posted, i might have got them backwards. but as dashiva or halima aginor got a poopy 3rd age.

Atleast Dashiva got to do some stuff and interact directly with Rand. All Halima did was make Egwene's head hurt, which in turn made -my- head hurt with all the whining she did. And kill a couple of people who could of found out who she was of course.

well we still dont know for sure if that is all halima did. his influence on egwene could be pretty strong still. i would like to see what would happen if nynaeve were to delve egwene. there might be things that even a good yellow ajah healer wouldn't be able to see.

EDIT: i suppose that would also fit into a possibly under rated character unless i got it right and that is aginor, but i think the nice cow was right, dashiva's talking to himself seems more like the mad genious of aginor.

[Sephie913]

I agree with that about Aginor. I think RJ said something in the way of: "the tools to make the tools to make the tools to do Aginor's work don't exist anymore." so another hundred years of him working might have produced something *shudders at the thought* but three(?) years certainly didn't.

 

I also find that, as much as she's revered in rereads, Moiraine is constantly underestimated in the first read. She does so much that no one else in the world (at the time) can or will do. I think she'd make my list for most bada** characters ever.

[kght22]

I agree with that about Aginor. I think RJ said something in the way of: "the tools to make the tools to make the tools to do Aginor's work don't exist anymore." so another hundred years of him working might have produced something *shudders at the thought* but three(?) years certainly didn't.

 

I also find that, as much as she's revered in rereads, Moiraine is constantly underestimated in the first read. She does so much that no one else in the world (at the time) can or will do. I think she'd make my list for most bada** characters ever.

indeed, but we fans already know she is a bad hopefully some day mother when she does something with thom that rhymes with luckers' name. but yah she doesn't get the moments of awesome that she deserves, but it looks like she might get some in the last book.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Mesaana. In terms of fandom, she is the most underrated.

 

She is seen as one of the most useless Forsaken, however, I think she did a lot more than Lanfear, Balthamael, Moggy, Sammael and Rahvin.

 

Sure, controlling a nation is pretty good, but look where that got Sammael, Be'lal and Rahvin, and they only had to mess with normal people.

 

Mesaana infiltrated the White Tower, full of channellers, and remained successfully hidden until her demise. She orchestrated the breaking of the White Tower, which has been one of the biggest hurdles for the Light. She orchestrated the trap for the wondergirls in Tear, it was not Be'lal. She orchestrated Rand's kidnapping, which set him against Aes Sedai so much that it nearly destroyed him. She avoided the purging of the Black Ajah with the reunification, and only lost because she underestimated Egwene, who is very powerful in TAR, an area where Mesaana is not.

 

Not that she was really awesome, just that compared to the opinion of her, and what she has done, she is underrated.

[fikkie77]

She was the most underrated in the big white book. She gave me the idea that only the 13 lucky few of the Chosen were the ones to get trapped in the Bore, not the 13 best of the best of the Chosen. But of the Forsaken in the Wheel of Time she certainly was the most succesful. So... in WOT she is not the most underrated.

 

I would say Siuan is the most underrated. She was (with Moiraine) one of the first that knew of the birth of the Dragon, but understood the dangers of the Black Ajah (I still can't grasp that Aes Sedai thought that Aes Sedai couldn´t fall for the Dark One). She took responsibility and started searching. She ascended to the Amyrlin Seat and as Amyrlin she was wise to acknowledge Rand very early. She might have tried to control him too much, but as Aes Sedai that misunderstanding is understandable. And right at the moment the White Tower needed her the most (when the Dragon Reborn became public), she was deposed, stilled and waiting to be executed. She fought desperation in this, found Salidar and tried to regain some control. She got healed, but lost much of her strength and because of that the Aes Sedai thought she didn't matter anymore. Instead they blamed her for the breaking of the White Tower (while Mesaana, Alviarin and Elaida were the ones to blame). The Aes Sedai forgot that the strength of their Amyrlin isn't in her strength in the OP, but in the way she uses her political powers. And when she thought her Amyrlin needed rescueing and she acted on it, she wasn't thanked for that, but only got the Amyrlin's anger. In the end it wasn't the Amyrlin, but the Dragon Reborn who thought it fit that she received the proper thanks.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Well she was underestimated. All of the other Forsaken thought of her as a lesser Chosen.

 

Besides, there can be no underrated characters in terms of in the story. Their actions prove their worth, you cannot use their success in the story as a reason. Since if they were unsuccessful, then they can't be underrated, because they are crap anyway, and when they are successful, credit is given.

 

Underrated to me is when they are underestimated and thought to be worse than they actually are. Everyone has

 

Mesaana is certainly that.

 

Edit: Suian is a good one as well, I agree that she is underrated.

 

I am tempted to say Moggy, she is also seen as pretty useless, however, I think she has earned it. Beaten by an Accepted Nynaeve who can't even channel unless angry, tricked and captured by Nynaeve in TAR, her supposed specialization, and helped out by SH, but mindtrapped under Moridin's control. She has yet to prove her worth.

[Sephie913]

Good points! Mesaana and Siuan are pretty underrated.

 

I also think Logain is underrated. Not by fans--or, not by me, I think he's f***in awesome--but by most Randlanders, Rand not least.

 

Can you imagine how hard it would be to think you were the ultimate savior of the world, then be captured, crippled, treated like a rabid dog? And then Rand comes along. Taim has proven just how hard it is to accept the turn of events(course, Taim has always been a little "explitive deleted"). Logain, on the other hand, falls right in line, raises his hand, and when he's called on, asks "what can I do to help?"

 

But no, Rand, let Taim lead the pack--you know, the guy that everyone in the world knows is a greasy little parasite? Just chew Logain's head off, and send him as far away as you can. So far away that WE don't even know where on Moun Doom he might be.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Ha, yeah, Logain is underrated by everyone. Aes Sedai and Rand both. He kinda gets stuck with everyone angry at him for everything he does. You know, surviving and being healed by someone else. It wasn't his fault, he was just chilling.

[kght22]

Good points! Mesaana and Siuan are pretty underrated.

 

I also think Logain is underrated. Not by fans--or, not by me, I think he's f***in awesome--but by most Randlanders, Rand not least.

 

Can you imagine how hard it would be to think you were the ultimate savior of the world, then be captured, crippled, treated like a rabid dog? And then Rand comes along. Taim has proven just how hard it is to accept the turn of events(course, Taim has always been a little "explitive deleted"). Logain, on the other hand, falls right in line, raises his hand, and when he's called on, asks "what can I do to help?"

 

But no, Rand, let Taim lead the pack--you know, the guy that everyone in the world knows is a greasy little parasite? Just chew Logain's head off, and send him as far away as you can. So far away that WE don't even know where on Moun Doom he might be.

oddly i think rand trusts him, and that whatever task he is about will be shown to be very important. rand has never trusted taim since the moment they met. there is no love lost between rand and logain (i think logain would love to kick rand's a%% and rand is pretty indifferent), but i think rand trusts, i would say respect but that doesn't seem accurate.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Oh he definitely trusts Logain, at least more than he does Taim. But the thing that gets Rand with both is that they claimed to be the Dragon Reborn.

 

Rand never really listened to him when he told him about Taim, he just kinda said, yeah, go off and find me something and I will believe you.

 

Basically nobody but his followers in the Black Tower trusts him with anything.

 

It is the fact that they all treat him so badly when he is just (unless something big is revealed in AMOL) a decent guy trying to survive and get rid of the Shadow in the BT.

[kght22]

Oh he definitely trusts Logain, at least more than he does Taim. But the thing that gets Rand with both is that they claimed to be the Dragon Reborn.

 

Rand never really listened to him when he told him about Taim, he just kinda said, yeah, go off and find me something and I will believe you.

 

Basically nobody but his followers in the Black Tower trusts him with anything.

 

It is the fact that they all treat him so badly when he is just (unless something big is revealed in AMOL) a decent guy trying to survive and get rid of the Shadow in the BT.

you again!?!? phaw!

anyway we dont know what logain is up to right now, or honestly if the dragon asked him to do it. but rand did listen to him about taim in the manor in tear and said pretty bluntly that he would have to deal with taim eventually. perhaps his priorities didn't line up but he seemed well aware that taim was a "greasy little parasite" as sephie said.

[Maleshub]

Thom is in the books from the start; yet he has always been in a support role. But I think that he is one of the best characters to read and follow. He shows many excellent qualities; and he is a master of Daes Dae'mar. Without him, many of the more acknowledged heroes would probably be dead.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Thom is a good one! Too true.

 

Also Mat is pretty underrated. Obviously not from a fan PoV, but the characters. Most of all the women. They all underestimate him and even have to be bullied into giving him credit for saving them. He is ta'veren and has his own personal army with superior tactics and disipline, yet they still treat him like a little boy.

[Sephie913]

Thom is in the books from the start; yet he has always been in a support role. But I think that he is one of the best characters to read and follow. He shows many excellent qualities; and he is a master of Daes Dae'mar. Without him, many of the more acknowledged heroes would probably be dead.

 

I'm not sure he's ever been underestimated, though--except maybe by the Myrrdral(sp?) who failed to kill him. I do think it'd be awesome for him to go up against someone ridiculous (SH, maybe?) who underestimates him, and have Thom just SLAY.

 

I actually think Mat's underestimated more often than Thom. Everyone knows Thom is awesome, Randland or no.

 

What about Asunawa? IIRC, he's still running loose, with an army of Whitecloaks. (Please, correct me if I'm wrong.) He was responsible for Niall's fall and Valda's rise. He's powerful, smart, and most of all, SANE. Fanatical, but sane. And yet we haven't heard from him in two books.

[fikkie77]

Have you read TGS and ToM?

Asunawa is dead, killed by the Lord Captains, after which Galad became Lord Captain Commander.

[condonmc]

I think Daved Hanlon is a very underated character....If the forsaken where half as competant as this DF, then it would have been game over before Moraine got to Two Rivers!

My second although this is quite personal is Gaul, I think He is such a badazz dude and for being the first Aiel that we meet in the series I do not think that He gets enough page time!!........

[bobarose]

Loial was a great part of the early books,his knowledge was so helpful to all are young heroes.Thom and loial were life savers in many ways.

[James al'Dylan]

Berelain sur Paendrag Paeron, Blessed of the Light, Defender of the Waves, High Seat of House Paeron, First of Mayene. Not only is she one of my favourite characters, but she also plays a fairly important role once she's introduced at the end of tDR. Apart from a few slip-ups, mainly her failed attempts at seduction of Rand and Perrin, plus Colavaere's coup in Cairhien, she has otherwise been extremely valuable to Rand and Perrin. Stewardship of Cairhien, sending the Winged Guards to help rescue Rand, providing proof of Colaveare's treachery and her accomplices, helps brings Alliendre (and Ghealdan) into fealty with Perrin, helps negotiate with the Seanchan and rescue Faile. I think of her as the 'first' of the second level of 'light' characters, in that I can't recall a specific POV chapter from her (I might be wrong but there can't be too many). I think she may ultimately be very important if Rand is to make a proper alliance with the Seachan, as her ancestry will be respected by them. She achieves a lot with fairly limited resources, and what she does achieve is often in-spite of her obvious 'attributes'.

[cgk84]

Of the non-channellers I think Dobraine seems pretty under-rated.