Aviendha killing Rand

[condonmc]

Im on a re-read with LOC and I came across the part where Avi thinks to herself that she has toh to Rand and even bigger toh to Elayne and by killing Rand al'Thor she would meet one toh, killing herself she could meet the other, but each toh blocked that solution.. Ive had a long day and might not be thinking cleary, but how the heck does killing Rand meet either of those toh's?.......Dragon Mounters ...Assemble!!!!

[RandA lThor]

May be her toh to rand was that she gave Rand something that she never could give again, so killing him would put him out of his misery?

I confused too now that you bring it up.

[csnyder]

This is following the post-Seanchan mingling episode where Aviendha not only managed to break a promise concerning keeping an eye on Rand for Elayne through Egwene, she did the exact thing she was supposed to keep an eye on him for - considering the fact that breaking an oath is a big deal for wetlanders, breaking an oath by being the direct cause by an Aiel is considerably worse. She is not being serious with killing Rand, for obvious reasons (him being mankind's messiah and her love interest besides...), just mocking herself with the situation she has gotten herself in. Remember that Aviendha is our medium to the Aiel mindset, so all of the cultural intricacies are rather magnified to prove a point. That being said, through killing Rand her toh to Egwene and the Aiel Wise Ones could not be fulfilled (albiet/due to the fact it being destined for her to fall in love with him) and by killing herself she could not fulfill her toh to Elayne (because she owed Elayne indirectly through Egwene; the only way to recover this is through something alike the beating Egwene took when she revealed her lies)...

[Ala Rubra]

I think Cannoli from readandfindout.com does a convincing job of explaining it here.

[condonmc]

I think Cannoli from readandfindout.com does a convincing job of explaining it here.

Holy Cannoli.........give this guy some garilc bread

[jsbrads]

Cannoli is a bit wordy... I disagree

 

Killing is not so easy as that, if one did kill they could end up gaishan, or make a blood fued, or datsang depending on the circumstances... But the Aiel are not Sharan, to kill someone to solve an arguement, so it must be something else.

 

Men don't contibute to the household? gift are to be kept and enjoyed similar to modern society when one regifts and is found out their eyes are lowered. Men are blacksmiths, herd goats/cattle, etc... Objects looted were traded with the merchants, so they are of financial value and not as noted, and when they met the peddlers in the waste they know the value of gold and silver

 

I am not responsible for your promise. I may be able to earn honor by helping you fulfill your duty, but that is an opportunity, so Rand did not have to keep Avi's promise to Elayne. Perhaps Rand did have to keep his own promise to Elayne however, I think it is something bigger than that...

 

but I offer no answers, just challenges to Cannoli's perspective

[yoniy0]

I do think he went too far, in that the Maidens weren't obligated to help Aviendha. There might be something to the fact that Rand has allowed her into his tent, and it could be too late to assert his privacy now, but I definitely think the reason the Maidens jumped to agree with Aviendha was that, should he have spoken before they gave their word, they would've been compelled to comply (i.e., he does have a right not to be informed on, unless it's otherwise justified).

 

We can't argue with Canolli on his conclusion that killing Rand has to be a solution to her toh to Elayne, though. That's solid. From there, it has to be something along the lines of depriving herself something she desires, and an expectation that Elayne might not mind (or, indeed, might be inclined to kill Rand herself, having him turn to another after she exposed herself for him). It's odd, though, that when they finally do meet, Aviendha offers Elayne the chance to either beat or kill her, making it seem as if suicide might've been a fix for that toh after all.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I will be thoroughly disappointed if the whole toh nonsense makes Avi kill Rand, or at least before the LB.

 

It would be incredibly stupid even for an Aiel to even touch Rand before he has faced the DO.

 

Really, I think there is no decision here, no amount of toh could justify such an act of stupidity.

 

If this actually does happen, I will actually wish for the enslavement of all Aiel at the hands of the Seanchan, they would deserve it.

 

Unless Rand is like "I have to die some time soon so I can be resurrected"

 

And Aviendha sees a chance to do something helpful and dispatch her toh at once.

[yoniy0]

There's no more toh. Elayne said so, and the offended party has that right. Unless Aviendha's toh to Rand for saving her from Lanfear could be paid by killing him. Yeah, no, as I said - Canolli's right, that's a no-go.

[Barid Bel Medar]

There's no more toh. Elayne said so, and the offended party has that right. Unless Aviendha's toh to Rand for saving her from Lanfear could be paid by killing him. Yeah, no, as I said - Canolli's right, that's a no-go.

 

Yeah, that is what I thought, just was pointing out even if there was reason, it would not happen in any case, aside from a bout of extreme stupidity on the part of almost the entire Aiel community.