[Discussion] Self Voting

[Nolder]

I know some mods don't allow self voting and I'm wondering why. I understand if someone is just using it as a means to "quit", that kind of sucks, but other than that why do some of you take issue with it? For myself I see it as a valid strategy as both town and mafia to try to get some sympathy from the town among other things.

[bgrishinko]

Agreed. That is all.

[LilyElizabeth]

I've only seen self-voting as a self-indulgent pity party. That's not what I want in my games. If I ever see it used any other way, I may reconsider my stance.

[Nolder]

so a mafia member who self votes in an attempt to sway town into thinking they're a townie doesn't count?

[Lanthirrhos]

(Should be noted ahead of time..... "IMO")

 

I like to keep self voting in the game. If you are vanilla town, deadline is approaching, and you are one vote short of being lynched--that self vote can save biffer and better roles if you use it to avoid the random lynch. (the flip side being that the random could have hit a non-townie and helped the town out, but EVERYTHING on mafia has a flip side, so no big surprise, or counter-argument there). It's also nice to be able to play the game how you want. If I want to appear confident and vote for myself, I should be able to.

 

Same with no lynch really. People whine and cry about it, but nothing is in mafia without a reason. Nothing is in mafia that can't be GIVEN a reason for mafia, town, and other factions alike. I don't see why we should limit play based on certain scenarios. If someone votes themself out of the game in a hissy fit, or a momentary fit of ill-judgement and sportsmanship--well, that is their decision. It only hurts their reputation in future games. Removing the option is kinda like saying that "America wastes food, so they don't get food anymore". Granted, that's far more fatal, but it's based on the same principle of overreaction.

 

Plus, if someone really wants out of the game, really wants to self vote and can't... well, what good are they going to do for the game anyways? They want to be done. Let them help finish it. If someone becomes too busy, stressed, or angry, they are no longer a productive force in the game for ANYONE. Sure, you could possibly replace them if you have time to confront the situation, but the same could be said if you allow self voting for the people who like to have options. all it requires is a bit of communication between mod and the player in question.

 

To sum up my iredeemable ramblings: disallowing self voting doesn't solve the underlying problem, and limits other players options (perhaps not in a game breaking way, but certainly not in a progressive or useful way). self voting can also help a player who is no longer interested or able to play as they wish to bow out of the game. Prevention of self voting fits (or even no lynching under "normal game types") by extreme revomal ("Prejudice set to maximum" Or perhaps "Facilitating communications" ...If you aren't an extreme nerd like me... just ignore that.) of the entire concept from the game is not all that useful. as I said, people will make their own mistakes and decisions, removing the option to make those mistakes or decisions can hurt them and the game more than actually making those mistakes/decisions--especially if they no longer want to be there.

 

Now, I'm going to generalize here: In everyday life, individuals can't make personal decisions for other individuals (at least in theory... in certain parts of the world). People have the freedon to be idiots. let them be idiots if that is what they are going to do. Sure, it's not ideal if they are just throwing a fit, but you don't ban general elections just because someone votes in a way you don't like. As much as I'd like to. I'd ban the lot of them in my country. I don't like any of them.

[WWWwombat]

I usually policy lynch or policy shoot self-voters.

[Nolder]

I usually policy lynch or policy shoot self-voters.

why?

[Nolder]

also I agree with pretty much everything Lanth just said

[LilyElizabeth]

Lanth, I think you've swayed me. Those are good arguments.

[cosmicpanda]

If somebody wants out of the game, they should usually replace out. Self-voting for this reason might be okay in certain situations, like if you're at L-1 and the game is lengthy; in this situation, it would be unfair to expect a replacement to pick up the slack.

 

I don't buy the argument that people should be able to self-vote in order to engender pity from others. I wouldn't take pity on somebody doing that, anyway. I would expect them either to replace out or to put their vote on who they think is mafia. Self-voting is not a defense against a case. In fact, since votes are supposed to be on who you think is mafia, voting for yourself should be interpreted as meaning, "yes, I think I'm mafia! Lynch me!" At the same time, if a particularly forgiving (I would say stupid) town can be led into sympathising with and overlooking the misdeeds of a mafioso by the mafioso's self-voting, then that's good mafia play.

 

All that aside, it should be up to the mod how to run their games. If some want to ban self-voting, so be it. If some allow it, that's cool too.

[Nolder]

our avatars look like drinking buddies /spam

[cosmicpanda]

Mine hasn't quite mastered the knack of opening bottles, if you look closely, so the bottle-opening duties are all on yours.

 

(I didn't choose the avatar, by the way. Empy, I think it was, hacked my account, and I haven't bothered changing it since.)

[Verbal32]

It's always Empy, Pandy. Or Barm.

 

 

Also, did I just see Lanth suggest a No Lynch? Are we back on MJ?!

 

Vote: Lanth

[hotpocket2006]

I usually policy lynch or policy shoot self-voters.

 

Same here.

[Lanthirrhos]

I don't buy the argument that people should be able to self-vote in order to engender pity from others. I wouldn't take pity on somebody doing that, anyway. I would expect them either to replace out or to put their vote on who they think is mafia. Self-voting is not a defense against a case. In fact, since votes are supposed to be on who you think is mafia, voting for yourself should be interpreted as meaning, "yes, I think I'm mafia! Lynch me!" At the same time, if a particularly forgiving (I would say stupid) town can be led into sympathising with and overlooking the misdeeds of a mafioso by the mafioso's self-voting, then that's good mafia play.

 

Self voting is never a proper defense, I agree--that doesn't keep it from working. It works for townies too, they vote themselves and anyone pushing their lynch has too think twice about actually forcing the lynch. They look pretty terrible when they pushed so hard for an innocent's lynch. It's a trap that requires the self voter to die, and makes those behind the lynch seem scummy. I call that useful. Like I've said, if done right, dying in a mafia game isn't the worst thing that can happen.

 

Like no lynch, I'll have to start using self voting to push people's buttons. I don't mind being policy lynched, especially if I'm the healer/finder.

[Red2111]

both as a player and as a game mod i don't ha ve a problem with either the Self Vote or the No Lynch; Lanth said it best really, and they are useful tools both as town and as scum. that said, i also agree with Pandy that if some Mods want to ban the no lynch in their rules then they should be allow to run the game the way they want.

 

 

however, as a player, self voting doesn't get you any sympathy from me, in most cases it makes me more than happy to switch my vote to you if it's not already on you at the time.