The Remaining Seals

[grump]

In FoH the question is asked how many remain . We are told 3 Moriane has 2 of them in one of the wagons and Taim gives Rand another shortly after.

Later darkfriends are searching everybody for them

I( think Rand gives Bashere one to hide Did I miss who has the others?

[Cybertrolloc]

1) Busted at Eye.

2 & 3) Busted at Falme.

4) In Stone, intact (Dobraine).

5) Tanchico, busted.

6) Found in Rhuidean, also Dobraine I guess.

7) Taim's, Bashere has.

 

Rand didn't know about 5, hopefully Ny has told him about it since he wondered where it could be late in WH.

[Luckers]

And yes, darkfriends are searching for them. They attack both Dobraine and Basheres wife in CoT searching for them. I suspect that Demandred is in charge of the search, though likely all the Forsaken are keeping an eye out.

[icspots]

We don't actually know that Rand entrusted them to Bashere/Dobraine (granted Rand told Bashere to keep the one from Taim safe soon after getting it). I think it was mentioned that they were probably the most likely people for Rand to've entrusted them with.

 

It's possible they're all packed in wool filled crates wrapped in inverted weaves of air (stronger than stone) and covered with an inverted mask of mirrors somewhere where no one will look for them.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Isn't Dobraine in Cairhien? I thought Darlin was in the Stone ... and that would make more sense ... with three left intact, giving one each to three widely dispersed men he can trust would be about as safe as he could make them, (one each with Bashere, Dobraine, and Darlin).

[Luckers]

I don't see Rand getting one out of hiding to give it to Darlin before sending him off on a boat.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Fair enough, but after Dobraine's apartments have been raided at least once, you'd think he'd find somewhere else for them, either one or two ...

 

And besides, if he's moving most of his forces to one place, that might be the best guarded spot for them. And isn't Darlin going to Arad Doman by gateway? I thought the Sea Folk ships were mostly for supplies. Finally, if Rand is going to intentionally break the last seals to start the Last Battle on his own time frame, I'd think he'd want to have them conveniently located together.

 

Anyway, alot of that is speculation, but I'd be surprised if he hasn't moved at least one after the attack on Dobraine.

[Kara_J]

I agree with you robert, i think he has to have them all relatively close together if he is to break them. After all, he isn't exactly going to be able to find the time to Travel everywhere with everything that'll be kicking off! :D

[Luckers]

I disagree... the centre of half a million people is not a secure place, giving the nature and disposition of darkfriends.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I disagree... the centre of half a million people is not a secure place, giving the nature and disposition of darkfriends.

 

Not for long-term storage, but if he's getting ready to use them ...

 

Besides the places we know Rand has stored them so far are 1) in the Royal Palace of Cairhien, and 2) in Bashere's tent. Neither is a terribly clandestine location, given the fact that both have been raided. Keeping them mobile (or hidden with inverted weaves) may be the best way to keep them secure now. He can do that in the middle of his army as well as anywhere else, and that gives him the added advantage of having them readily accessible.

[grump]

I thought everyone was trying not to break them but when the DO applied enough presure from his side thats when they got weak and crumbled

[icspots]

Besides the places we know Rand has stored them so far are 1) in the Royal Palace of Cairhien' date=' and 2) in Bashere's tent. [/quote']

 

We don't know that Rand stored the seals there. We know that someone was trying to find them. They thought to themselves, "If Rand were to give the seals to someone to keep hidden then who would he trust enough to keep them safe?". Obviously their answer was Dobraine (Rand's steward in Cairhien), and Bashere (his best general).

 

There's been nothing to say that they have the seals, only that there was suspicion that they did.

 

.... Okay, so thinking back we can assume that at least two seals were stored in the Palace of the Sun for at least a time after they arrived in Cairhien and ousted the Shaido. We don't know what Rand did with those two afterwards, or if he brought the third one to join them.

 

I still think that hidden somewhere behind inverted weaves of air (stronger than steel), plus hidden behind an inverted MoM, and perhaps marked out with the inverted "glowing beacon" that Rand used to mark Callandor outside of Far Madding would be the best way. No one can betray it then.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I still think that hidden somewhere behind inverted weaves of air (stronger than steel), plus hidden behind an inverted MoM, and perhaps marked out with the inverted "glowing beacon" that Rand used to mark Callandor outside of Far Madding would be the best way. No one can betray it then.

 

OK, I can buy that as a viable option. Although, Rand did give at least one into Bashere's keeping, at the beginning of Lord of Chaos ... we haven't seen any indication that he changed his mind. But that may just mean we haven't seen it, not that it hasn't happened.

[icspots]

 

OK' date=' I can buy that as a viable option. Although, Rand did give at least one into Bashere's keeping, at the beginning of Lord of Chaos ... we haven't seen any indication that he changed his mind. But that may just mean we haven't seen it, not that it hasn't happened.[/quote']

 

Well I did say that he gave one to Bashere for at least a time. You're correct though. We don't know that he left it with him, or that he took it back.

[algspkr]

Rand gave Taim's seal to Bashere because LTT wanted to destroy it and almost managed to. Rand does not trust himself around the seals and so is unlikely to have the two in Charain in his possesion.

[icspots]

Rand gave Taim's seal to Bashere because LTT wanted to destroy it and almost managed to. Rand does not trust himself around the seals and so is unlikely to have the two in Charain in his possesion.

 

I'm not saying he has them in his posession, only that he hid them himself vs. trusting them to the care of other people. Yes, we know that he gave that seal to Bashere, but we don't know that he didn't then take it and store it with the other two he has.

[Magicana]

One of the seals is buried somewhere. I cant remember the exact reference, but it wouild have been some time in Lord of Chaos. It is mentioned when Rand is watching the Saladean horseman drill. The basic gist of what happened was that Rand got Bashere to bury the seal whilst no one was around.

[Luckers]

I'm not saying he has them in his posession, only that he hid them himself vs. trusting them to the care of other people. Yes, we know that he gave that seal to Bashere, but we don't know that he didn't then take it and store it with the other two he has.

 

In absense of evidence, we must take that which is logically deductive to be the point of highest assumption. Specifically, we know Rand did not trust himself with the Seals. Its why he gave it to Bashere to begin with. Additionally we have never seen Rand show any interest in singular posession of the Seals. He lets Moiraine deal with them, and the one time we do witness him intereacting directly with the seal, he gives it away to Bashere.

 

There is no deductive evidence suggesting in anyway that Rand retained the seals, and evidence showing disinterest in, and direct attempts to avoid interacting with, the seals.

 

One of the seals is buried somewhere. I cant remember the exact reference, but it wouild have been some time in Lord of Chaos. It is mentioned when Rand is watching the Saladean horseman drill. The basic gist of what happened was that Rand got Bashere to bury the seal whilst no one was around.

 

Can you find the reference?

[icspots]

Just saying it's a possibility. :)

 

I think the reference he's talking about is when Rand's watching the Saledean horse drills, and there's a mention of two white rocks placed in the field, and how Rand hopes no one notices them.

 

EDIT: Went and found it .

 

Lord of Chaos: Chapter 26, "Connecting Lines"

 

The Saldaean horsemen appeared over the next rise, three abrest at a dead gallop in a long snake that kept coming, down the slope into the broad sweep between the hills. Nine thousand men made a very long snake. At the foot of the slope they divided, the center column coming on while the others peeled off to right and left, each column dividing again and again until they rode by hundreds, swooping past one another.

 

Continues on describing the horsemen's riding theatrics, and his personal guards. RAnd rides around the valley to the hill the Saldaeans came over.

 

For an instant Rand seized saidin, and released it a heartbeat later. With his vision enhanced, it had not been difficult to see the two white stones lying near the foot of the slope, right where Bashere had placed them personally last night, four paces apart. With luck, no one had seen him. With luck, no one would ask too many questions about this morning. Below, some men were riding two horses now, a foot on each saddle, still at a dead gallop. Others had a man on their shoulders, sometimes in a handstand.

 

Crown of Swords: Chapter 41, "A Crown of Swords"

 

Rand wakes up after his wounding by Padan Fain and gets reports about the attacks on the hillforts on the Plains of Maredo. Then he and the Asha'man go to Bashere's camp via gateway, and soon thereafter leave via gateway for the attack on Illian.

 

Seizing the Source, Rand made a gateway between the posts, four paces by four, and ran through as he tied off the weave, filled with saidin and the Asha'man on his heels, into a great open square surrounded by huge white columns, each topped with a marble wreatch of olive branches. At the two ends of the square stood nearly identical purple-roofed palaces of columned walks and high balconies and slender spires. Those were the King's Palace and the slightly smaller Great Hall of the Council, and this was the Square of Tammuz, in the heart of Illian.

 

Rand and the Asha'man scare the crap out of everyone and they run out of the square.

 

No more was needed. A shrieking flood of humanity fled in all diretions, away from the Square of Tammuz. They fled just in time. Rand and the Asha'man darted aside from the gateway, and Davram Bashere led his wildly screaming Saldaeans into Illian, a flood of horsemen waving their swords as the poured out. Straight ahead Bashere led the center line of the column, just as they had planned what seemed so long ago, while the other two lines peeled off to either side. They stremed away from the gateway, breaking apart into smaller groups, galloping into the streets leading out of the square.

 

So we know Bashere had planned horse "drills" for Rand to come see. This involved his horsemen riding in a small column between two stones set four paces apart, and then rapidly splitting off into multiple small groups and riding around. The theatrics were just that, designed to make it all look like a spectacle vs. careful preparation for a secret attack. All this took place in the middle of LoC, and the attack didn't happen until the end of CoS, so the whole "So long ago" quote makes sense.

 

We also know that Rand opens a four pace wide gateway into Illian, and all the horseman ride through it and split off into multiple small groups to go through the city.

 

Sorry if I debunked your burried seal theory.

[Luckers]

Very comprehensive. I hadn't even noticed the stones.

[Magicana]

Just saying it's a possibility. :)

 

I think the reference he's talking about is when Rand's watching the Saledean horse drills' date=' and there's a mention of two white rocks placed in the field, and how Rand hopes no one notices them.

 

[i']EDIT: Went and found it .[/i]

 

Lord of Chaos: Chapter 26, "Connecting Lines"

 

The Saldaean horsemen appeared over the next rise, three abrest at a dead gallop in a long snake that kept coming, down the slope into the broad sweep between the hills. Nine thousand men made a very long snake. At the foot of the slope they divided, the center column coming on while the others peeled off to right and left, each column dividing again and again until they rode by hundreds, swooping past one another.

 

Continues on describing the horsemen's riding theatrics, and his personal guards. RAnd rides around the valley to the hill the Saldaeans came over.

 

For an instant Rand seized saidin, and released it a heartbeat later. With his vision enhanced, it had not been difficult to see the two white stones lying near the foot of the slope, right where Bashere had placed them personally last night, four paces apart. With luck, no one had seen him. With luck, no one would ask too many questions about this morning. Below, some men were riding two horses now, a foot on each saddle, still at a dead gallop. Others had a man on their shoulders, sometimes in a handstand.

 

Crown of Swords: Chapter 41, "A Crown of Swords"

 

Rand wakes up after his wounding by Padan Fain and gets reports about the attacks on the hillforts on the Plains of Maredo. Then he and the Asha'man go to Bashere's camp via gateway, and soon thereafter leave via gateway for the attack on Illian.

 

Seizing the Source, Rand made a gateway between the posts, four paces by four, and ran through as he tied off the weave, filled with saidin and the Asha'man on his heels, into a great open square surrounded by huge white columns, each topped with a marble wreatch of olive branches. At the two ends of the square stood nearly identical purple-roofed palaces of columned walks and high balconies and slender spires. Those were the King's Palace and the slightly smaller Great Hall of the Council, and this was the Square of Tammuz, in the heart of Illian.

 

Rand and the Asha'man scare the crap out of everyone and they run out of the square.

 

No more was needed. A shrieking flood of humanity fled in all diretions, away from the Square of Tammuz. They fled just in time. Rand and the Asha'man darted aside from the gateway, and Davram Bashere led his wildly screaming Saldaeans into Illian, a flood of horsemen waving their swords as the poured out. Straight ahead Bashere led the center line of the column, just as they had planned what seemed so long ago, while the other two lines peeled off to either side. They stremed away from the gateway, breaking apart into smaller groups, galloping into the streets leading out of the square.

 

So we know Bashere had planned horse "drills" for Rand to come see. This involved his horsemen riding in a small column between two stones set four paces apart, and then rapidly splitting off into multiple small groups and riding around. The theatrics were just that, designed to make it all look like a spectacle vs. careful preparation for a secret attack. All this took place in the middle of LoC, and the attack didn't happen until the end of CoS, so the whole "So long ago" quote makes sense.

 

We also know that Rand opens a four pace wide gateway into Illian, and all the horseman ride through it and split off into multiple small groups to go through the city.

 

Sorry if I debunked your burried seal theory.

 

:( It was such a good theory :P