Carlinya & The Failed Viewing

[Suttree]

So some posts by our good friend Felix Pax reminded me of this recently, in tFoH Min has this viewing of Carlinya Sedai

 

tFoH

"It would be far better," pale-cheeked Carlinya cut in icily, "if he had died as the rumors say." It was not the ice of anger, but of cold reason. She was White Ajah. Her ivory-colored dress looked as if it had had hard wear. For an instant Min saw an image of a raven floating beside her dark hair; more a drawing of the bird than the bird itself. She thought it was a tattoo, but she did not know its meaning."

 

and yet in ToM Carlinya was killed in the BA Tar attack, which would seem to leave Min's viewing unfulfilled.

 

ToM

"Report!" Egwene demanded.

"Shevan and Carlinya are dead, Mother," Saerin said grimly. The brusque Brown was panting.

Egwene cursed. "What happened?"

"We were in the middle of our ploy, having a discussion about a fake plot to bring peace to Arad Doman, as you'd ordered. And then . . ."

"Fire," Morvrin said, shivering. "Blasting through the walls. Women channeling, several with incredible Power. I saw Alviarin there. Others, too."

 

Well let's have at it, any thoughts on how this could be?

[David Selig]

Ravens are associated with the Shadow, and she was killed by Darkfriends, so I don't see a problem.

[Suttree]

Ravens are associated with the Shadow, and she was killed by Darkfriends, so I don't see a problem.

 

You could be right, I always took it to mean Seanchan property however based on the clarification of "tattoo" in the viewing.

[Feral]

Has Brandon (or anyone else on the inside) confirmed that this isn't just an error yet?

[Suttree]

Has Brandon (or anyone else on the inside) confirmed that this isn't just an error yet?

 

All we have is this...

 

Tor Q&A

Carlinya Sedai died in ToM. So what did Min’s vision of her from TFoH mean?

 

RAFO.

[GYLD]

I remember someone on this board suggested the idea that it was Alviarian who killed Carlinya. Unfortunately I don't remember the name so I can't properly credit the individual, but I do think the idea has some weight to it. What Min interpreted as a tattoo could have actually had something to do with the mark Shaidar Haran left on Alvirian (which yes, I know did not actually leave a physical mark).

 

I think Terez ended up taking the question to Brandon to which he did not answer straight out.

[Feral]

Has Brandon (or anyone else on the inside) confirmed that this isn't just an error yet?

 

All we have is this...

 

Tor Q&A

Carlinya Sedai died in ToM. So what did Min’s vision of her from TFoH mean?

 

RAFO.

 

So...assuming he's not just trying to cover himself then we have to assume that it's something we have yet to find out therefore it's probably not something obvious such as "she was killed by the Shadow".

 

Only theories I can think of:

 

She was a DF (do we have any evidence to suggest that this wasn't possible?) and this will have some effect in the next book.

 

Or she's not really dead. The Carlinya on TAR was an impersonator and so Min's vision is yet to come true.

[Suttree]

Found a few more Q&A's

 

Terez: (herid) Did Alviarin kill Carlinya?

Brandon: I’m answering too many of these; I’m going to RAFO that one.1

 

Towers of Midnight book tour 7 November 2010 Harvard Coop, Cambridge, MA - kamarile reporting

Carlinya's death, specifically whether that was a mistake. I had assumed that it was, because Min's viewing regarding her hasn't, to my knowledge, come to pass. (That viewing being the one of ravens, drawings of them, settling on her shoulders.)2 According to him, that was NOT a mistake, and that that viewing doesn't necessarily mean what most people take it to mean.

 

Guess unless there is something else Alviarin's mark makes the most sense. Not sure why he would have to RAFO that though.

[Feral]

 

Not sure why he would have to RAFO that though.

 

Yeah, that's what's making me think there must be something more to it. But maybe Brandon was just in a secretive mood *shrug*

[Goldstar]

It could be that the DO or something ressurects recently killed Aes Sedai to use in war. The tattoo could be what binds them to him.

[Feral]

It could be that the DO or something ressurects recently killed Aes Sedai to use in war. The tattoo could be what binds them to him.

 

That's an interesting theory, although I have to say it doesn't seem very likely to me. Would be cool though.

[Eht Slat Meit]

Might be worth considering the source - Saerin is the same Aes Sedai from whose custody Talene escaped. Might be a question of competence or necessary insight, living up to the stereotyped reputation of the Browns. In other words, she didn't really see that, and Carlinya may turn up later, only to get grabbed in a second invasion by the Seanchan. Plenty of possibilities.

[Suttree]

Might be worth considering the source - Saerin is the same Aes Sedai from whose custody Talene escaped. Might be a question of competence or necessary insight, living up to the stereotyped reputation of the Browns. In other words, she didn't really see that, and Carlinya may turn up later, only to get grabbed in a second invasion by the Seanchan. Plenty of possibilities.

 

The problem with that is Morvrim was also present during the attack and confirmed the report to Egwene.

[FarShainMael]

We've come across someone with ravens tattoos before - a Seeker for Truth (TSR38). As well as ravens, the symbol of the Imperial family, they have the Tower of Ravens, symbol of Imperial justice. Min's Viewing didn't mention Tower tattoos. Was Carlinya associated with the Imperial family in some way?

[Eht Slat Meit]

The problem with that is Morvrim was also present during the attack and confirmed the report to Egwene.

 

Fair point, though it should also be noted that both women were fleeing an attack by the Black Ajah. One doesn't stop to make sure that their fellow Aes Sedai are dead instead of fighting/fleeing.

[Sharaman]

Talene is another loose end. The hunters actually hid her in the cellars and pretended she had done a runner. Did Egwene have them pull her out and behead her? Or is she still alive and sworn to obey the hunters? No specific information.

As to Carlinya, Min's Viewing never go wrong - that's pretty much canon. So whatever happened in TAR, it has to fit with Min's Viewing even though she didn't know what it meant.

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

http://13depository.blogspot.com/2002/03/mins-viewings.html#raven

[Suttree]

http://13depository.blogspot.com/2002/03/mins-viewings.html#raven

 

I'm still convinced that there is something significant to the "tatoo" part which that article doesn't take into account at all.

[Wantanswers]

Min thoughtit was a tattoo

This could mean it wasn't a tattoo at all.

 

We know that Carlinya has resworn the Three Oaths. Does that mean she isn't a Darkfriend, or

Rage enveloped Moridin, blood pounding in the ears. A moment past, he had not cared where those woman went, but now.... Some where far from here. Peeple fleeing ran as far as they could. Somewhere they felt safe. No use sending Madic to ask questions, no use squeezing anyone here, they would not have been fool enough to leave anyone behind alive who knew their destination. Not to Tar Valon. To Al'Thor? To that band of rebel Aes Sedai? In all those places he had eyes, some that did not know they served him.

(The Path of Daggers, Unweaving)

Was Carlinya one of those unknowing eyes? Has she been compelled by Moridin? Was she the one who warned the Black Sisters in the rebel camp that they has to reswear the Three Oaths?

[FarShainMael]

We've come across someone with ravens tattoos before - a Seeker for Truth (TSR38). As well as ravens, the symbol of the Imperial family, they have the Tower of Ravens, symbol of Imperial justice. Min's Viewing didn't mention Tower tattoos. Was Carlinya associated with the Imperial family in some way?

 

Captain Musenge of the Deathwatch guard also has a raven tattoo:

 

“Crossbows settled this, marath'damane” Musenge said. His helmet, breastplate and coat were off, his left shirt-sleeve ripped away so one of the other Guards could wrap a bandage around where an arrow had gone through. The sleeve had come away very neatly, as if the stitching had been weak. He had a raven tattooed on his shoulder. “Crossbows and men with heart. You never had more than this, did you, Highness.” That was not a question. “This and whatever losses you suffered.”

 

That bit about 'weak stitching' is curious. Almost as though he could pull his sleeve off to show his tattoo.

 

Deathwatch Guards, the:

 

The elite military formation of the Seanchan Empire, including both humans and Ogier. The human members of the Deathwatch Guard are all da’covale, born as property and chosen while young to serve the Empress, whose personal property they are. Fanatically loyal and fiercely proud, they often display the ravens tattooed on their shoulders, the mark of a da’covale of the Empress.

 

It's beginning to look as though Carlinya was a plant.

[Padraic_Seebrr]

The Seanchan would not trust a channeler to return to the Tower after her capture. They do not know of compulsion or any form of bonding, and they have a complete distrust of all damane and especially marath'damane. I venture to say it is impossible that Carlinya has been da'covale her whole life and was brought from Seanchan to be inserted into the White Tower for the purpose of spying. A Listener would likely just be added to the servants if the Seanchan had a desire to spy.