[Light Vs Shadow] - HEROES AND VILLIANS MAFIA

[Turin Turambar]

Des. I think you know it is around midnight for Tina. people really do need to sleep sometimes.

[Pantsonfire]

1321998095[/url]' post='2047140']

1321997883[/url]' post='2047129']

1321997736[/url]' post='2047117']

1321997482[/url]' post='2047106']

I think you may have chosen the most popular player to watch overnight Des. Is it not possible that the mafia tried to kill Wobat?

It the healer were to be focusing on you, the mafia think that they can get in and take out wombat. Then their attack was 'bussed' to Ley killing both him and Hoof in one.

 

Are you saying that the mafia switched Wombat and Ley and then killed their own player? Or is it late and I'm mis-reading..

 

Just going to point out that the Bus Driver doesn't always have to be anti-town.

 

 

 

Yes that was what I was trying to say. Lol all these roles and actions get twisted in the telling

 

Any why exactly would they do that? :p

 

I did say on the last page that I was not suspicious of Wombat. His blunt and open claim for town swayed me while musing/reading over night. Quote of me is on mid page '27' btw

[hazelkrs1]

*** ATTENTION ***

 

I'm NOT asking for a mass reveal, but I think if we get stories from everyone on my list we'll have more info for the end. Even should we out a town power role in the process, there will be so many WIFOM's for the mafia that it'll make their life miserable in picking targets as well. Not to mention, I think it's very possible we have a town RB'er as well, which can also help us out.

 

There are risks with this plan, but this will give us an orgy of information to keep for the rest of the game.

[Leelou]

I'd rather not have my role out in the open and calling for a mass reveal only helps scum. I've been super busy at work today but when I get home I'm going to process everything and let you know where I stand.

[Red2111]

no a bus driver isn't always anti-town but it's actions tend to harm the town more than help imo.

 

 

i say we take this one step at a time. right now we know 2 things for fact.

 

Hoof targeted Wombat and Hoof is now dead.

 

 

Wombats corner report will tell us multiple things

 

- Whether theres a busser

- Whether we can trust Des

 

and if there is a busser, then our field is narrowed darastically thanks to Des's list.

 

 

 

being it's only D3, i'm willing to accept losing Wombat to get the air clear and some certaintly as to what were dealing with behind the scenes

 

 

[hazelkrs1]

Des. I think you know it is around midnight for Tina. people really do need to sleep sometimes.

 

Of course I realize that, but at the same time mafia often hide behind rl excuses. At least I've found that to be the case in DM mafia so far. I think it's fairly unethical, but it still happens. I asked a direct question, and she chose to opt out. I could be being a paranoid jerk, and for that I'm sorry GGM, but until I find out something which definitely clears Tina I'll be very wary of her, and frankly you for defending her.

 

On that note Turin, why did YOU target Wombat last night?

 

[Talya]

With 16 players it takes 9 to lynch. Day 3 ends Friday 9pm GMT

 

DAY 3 Vote

 

Wombat (5): Red, Tiinks, Tina, Turin, Des

 

Tina (0): Des

 

 

[Pantsonfire]

Ok I can work out most of the shorter acronyms but this has me stumped WIFOM's?

I just ignored the first one I saw but now it's come up again......can I get a translation?

 

 

[Leelou]

Wine In Front Of Me - have you ever seen the Princess Bride?

[Red2111]

*** ATTENTION ***

 

I'm NOT asking for a mass reveal, but I think if we get stories from everyone on my list we'll have more info for the end. Even should we out a town power role in the process, there will be so many WIFOM's for the mafia that it'll make their life miserable in picking targets as well. Not to mention, I think it's very possible we have a town RB'er as well, which can also help us out.

 

There are risks with this plan, but this will give us an orgy of information to keep for the rest of the game.

 

 

um if your not asking for a mass role reveal then what more can they tell you. you claim to have targeted Wombat, Tina acknowledges that she did target Wombat. meaning all the others on your list targetted him too; because even if wombat was bussed your list would still only be people who targeted Wombat. theres nothing more they can do aside from role reveal.

 

 

honestly Des, because of your actions today, i wouldn't be against lynchign you as well. your actions are way too panicky imo. my gut suspects you of being in a gambit of some sort (most likely with Wombat in this case) and now your panicking because it didn't pull off the way you wanted it too.

[Tiinker]

In other words, I think Wombat and Leyrann were bussed by mafia, and someone tried killing Wombat, someone tried blocking him perhaps, and someone tried investigating him, and two other people tried something else on him, but everything was diverted to Leyrann. Of course there's the possibility my viewings would have been bussed as well, but I find that highly unlikely because that would mean Wombat was bussed with someone else that a ton of others viewed.

 

Like I said, this is making my brain hurt

 

Not sure what you mean here. If you targeted Wombat then your viewings would've been swapped like all the other NA's.

 

Not necessarily. That's kind of metagaming the mod, it depends how Talya processed the NA's. It's possible she processed mine before the bus which allowed me to see who all truly targeted Wombat instead of Leyrann. The fact that no one on my list (Tina and Turin that I can remember right now) have denied that they targeted Wombat, this tells me that this might be possible.

 

 

I don't see how you can really reason this out either way. If everyone did target Wombat, same as you, and they were all bussed then they wouldn't know any different. The only way would be to compare and analyse the results of each of their night actions. There are too many if's in what you're arguing for, though I can see what your saying.

[hazelkrs1]

I'd rather not have my role out in the open and calling for a mass reveal only helps scum. I've been super busy at work today but when I get home I'm going to process everything and let you know where I stand.

 

Once again, not a mass reveal. On that note though, a mass reveal doesn't always help scum, clever townies can still supply PLENTY enough WIFOM to keep mafia confused about who to go after. I also think a reveal, and perhaps not even full reveals but reveals nonetheless can help us get more info out in the open so we can use that later.

 

is it risky? Yes. But the possible gain FAR outweighs the possible loss.

 

no a bus driver isn't always anti-town but it's actions tend to harm the town more than help imo.

 

 

i say we take this one step at a time. right now we know 2 things for fact.

 

Hoof targeted Wombat and Hoof is now dead.

 

 

Wombats corner report will tell us multiple things

 

- Whether theres a busser

- Whether we can trust Des

 

and if there is a busser, then our field is narrowed darastically thanks to Des's list.

 

 

 

being it's only D3, i'm willing to accept losing Wombat to get the air clear and some certaintly as to what were dealing with behind the scenes

 

Several things I don't like about this post:

 

We don't know for a fact that Hoof targeted Wombat. He could have targeted someone else, and if Wombat was bussed with that person I might have been led to believe he targeted him when he didn't. Hoof could have targeted someone not named Wombat OR Leyrann.

 

Wombat's coroner report won't necessarily tell us if there's a busser or not.

 

I don't even think his coroner report will clear me necessarily, at least I don't see how it definitely would. I know I'm town, but it seems like you're setting up a way to clear yourself by linking with me. Also, there's now way Wombat's coroner report would NOT clear me, since I know myself to be town. Erm, wait... did I just get myself into a WIFOM? Blech this is confusing

[Pantsonfire]

1321998593[/url]' post='2047157']

*** ATTENTION ***

 

I'm NOT asking for a mass reveal, but I think if we get stories from everyone on my list we'll have more info for the end. Even should we out a town power role in the process, there will be so many WIFOM's for the mafia that it'll make their life miserable in picking targets as well. Not to mention, I think it's very possible we have a town RB'er as well, which can also help us out.

 

There are risks with this plan, but this will give us an orgy of information to keep for the rest of the game.

 

 

Wine In Front Of Me - have you ever seen the Princess Bride?

 

So when des uses it in this sense he is saying that by getting stories of last night we can pretty much put pressure on the mafia. "One of us will die and I'm doing my best to makemit you"

.?

 

 

[Tiinker]

I'd rather not have my role out in the open and calling for a mass reveal only helps scum. I've been super busy at work today but when I get home I'm going to process everything and let you know where I stand.

 

Once again, not a mass reveal. On that note though, a mass reveal doesn't always help scum, clever townies can still supply PLENTY enough WIFOM to keep mafia confused about who to go after. I also think a reveal, and perhaps not even full reveals but reveals nonetheless can help us get more info out in the open so we can use that later.

 

is it risky? Yes. But the possible gain FAR outweighs the possible loss.

 

 

It doesn't though, not in this situation. It's going to end up domino'ing and the amount of possible fake claims and WIFOM are going to make the situation so much worse. Plus it lets mafia hunt out the strongest power roles. Unless you want to try and vet everyone who reveals somehow it's not going to help us especially since we have no lead on who might be mafia and who isn't EXCEPT WOMBAT at the moment.

[Pantsonfire]

I'll check back for the answer later lee, thanks.

 

Sorry to post and run guys but this crib sheet needs to be finished before 12 (3 hours)., as my exam is as 1. I'll read up on you guys after my exam (8-10 hours, maybe more if there are drinks after)

[Turin Turambar]

[...]

 

On that note Turin, why did YOU target Wombat last night?

 

I was suspicious of Wombat yesterday for both his pushing the Maw lynch and for his claim which I have said I do not believe. That is all I will say until I have heard from wombat. I want to hear his answer to Tina's question although I believe the field had been soiled by your reveal.

[Pantsonfire]

Give Wombat a few hours he still may be active

[hazelkrs1]

*** ATTENTION ***

 

I'm NOT asking for a mass reveal, but I think if we get stories from everyone on my list we'll have more info for the end. Even should we out a town power role in the process, there will be so many WIFOM's for the mafia that it'll make their life miserable in picking targets as well. Not to mention, I think it's very possible we have a town RB'er as well, which can also help us out.

 

There are risks with this plan, but this will give us an orgy of information to keep for the rest of the game.

 

 

um if your not asking for a mass role reveal then what more can they tell you. you claim to have targeted Wombat, Tina acknowledges that she did target Wombat. meaning all the others on your list targetted him too; because even if wombat was bussed your list would still only be people who targeted Wombat. theres nothing more they can do aside from role reveal.

 

 

honestly Des, because of your actions today, i wouldn't be against lynchign you as well. your actions are way too panicky imo. my gut suspects you of being in a gambit of some sort (most likely with Wombat in this case) and now your panicking because it didn't pull off the way you wanted it too.

 

Mass reveal = everyone in the game reveals

 

I'm saying we should get SOMETHING from everyone on my list, whether it should be a full reveal or not that's up to them. You proved my point as well, because Tina didn't deny targeting Wombat we pretty much know everyone else on the list targeted him, or at least I think so. Getting all of their stories out in the open will help us in trying to catch one of them in a lie.

 

You can push my lynch all you want, you really will only be drawing attention on yourself in the end. I don't care if I die at this point, I think my role has contributed to town greatly already. It would be great to see this all the way to the end of a town victory, so I'll defend myself the best I can, but either way I wouldn't have a problem letting myself be sacrificed to confirm everything I've said.

 

1321998593[/url]' post='2047157']

*** ATTENTION ***

 

I'm NOT asking for a mass reveal, but I think if we get stories from everyone on my list we'll have more info for the end. Even should we out a town power role in the process, there will be so many WIFOM's for the mafia that it'll make their life miserable in picking targets as well. Not to mention, I think it's very possible we have a town RB'er as well, which can also help us out.

 

There are risks with this plan, but this will give us an orgy of information to keep for the rest of the game.

 

 

Wine In Front Of Me - have you ever seen the Princess Bride?

 

So when des uses it in this sense he is saying that by getting stories of last night we can pretty much put pressure on the mafia. "One of us will die and I'm doing my best to makemit you"

.?

 

I'm saying there will be enough stuff out in the open to make it confusing for mafia. They won't know if someone who claimed a role would be telling the truth or if they are protecting a more powerful town role. Even if they are able to figure out all the townie roles on my list, they still won't know if they target someone that their kill will DEFINITELY work, or whatever other NA they use.

[hazelkrs1]

I'd rather not have my role out in the open and calling for a mass reveal only helps scum. I've been super busy at work today but when I get home I'm going to process everything and let you know where I stand.

 

Once again, not a mass reveal. On that note though, a mass reveal doesn't always help scum, clever townies can still supply PLENTY enough WIFOM to keep mafia confused about who to go after. I also think a reveal, and perhaps not even full reveals but reveals nonetheless can help us get more info out in the open so we can use that later.

 

is it risky? Yes. But the possible gain FAR outweighs the possible loss.

 

 

It doesn't though, not in this situation. It's going to end up domino'ing and the amount of possible fake claims and WIFOM are going to make the situation so much worse. Plus it lets mafia hunt out the strongest power roles. Unless you want to try and vet everyone who reveals somehow it's not going to help us especially since we have no lead on who might be mafia and who isn't EXCEPT WOMBAT at the moment.

 

That's the point though, mafia can make some fake claims, but we'll at least have gotten A claim from them, which we can use later to pin them to a wall should they slip. And a town power role can always lie, I'm honestly not going to be the one grilling anyone on their claims. I just want to get stories out in the open.

 

It's only D3, so we have plenty of time to track down scum. If we lose a couple of townies because they reveal right now, it will be worth it if we end up finding more scum. We have the advantage of numbers, it's worth sacrificing 2 or 3 of our own to say lynch 2 of them, which we very well might be able to do in the end if we're clever enough.

[Red2111]

Pants heres a wiki page on WIFOM My link

 

Des your really starting to ping me

 

 

We don't know for a fact that Hoof targeted Wombat.

 

yes we do, unless your lieing about Targeting Wombat.

 

as a Watcher, Hoof would only be onl your list if he targeted the person your watching; especailly since (via the wiki) all NA's directed at the hider will fail.

 

 

He could have targeted someone else,

 

if he did, he wouldn't have been on your list.

 

 

and if Wombat was bussed with that person

 

again, your list only includes those who sent in to target Wombat as thier NA's. regaurdless if Wombat or yourself was bussed. and thats a pretty big if.

 

 

 

I might have been led to believe he targeted him when he didn't. Hoof could have targeted someone not named Wombat OR Leyrann.

 

then he woudn't be on your list. and since Tina has said she did target Wombat then we know your list are of those who did infact target Wombat.

 

 

 

Wombat's coroner report won't necessarily tell us if there's a busser or not.

 

yes it would. if Wombat was bussed, this means all people targetting Wombat were bussed. if Wombat flips innocent then Hoof (and by default your list) were bussed and we know there is a busser.

 

 

I don't even think his coroner report will clear me necessarily, at least I don't see how it definitely would. I know I'm town, but it seems like you're setting up a way to clear yourself by linking with me. Also, there's now way Wombat's coroner report would NOT clear me, since I know myself to be town. Erm, wait... did I just get myself into a WIFOM? Blech this is confusing

 

i'm not linking myself with you, i'm linking you with Wombat as a possible gambit. i bought your claim with a grain of salt and not that grain is turnign into a pound because of your actions.

[Turin Turambar]

Des. How any of the people on "the list" do you think would be villains? My problem is that the villains KNOW who on that list is mafia and therefore who is not. Our reveals or hints or stories or whatever your asking for will be giving them more immediate information than it will give the heroes. If wombat is bad like I think then he and his mates are probably trying to decide what spin to throw out. So our water is even muddier than before

[Red2111]

and Des i don't want to push for your lynch unless i'm 99% sure my gut isn't being paranoid, because with our finder gone your the next best thing.

[hotpocket2006]

I'm almost 100% positive that wombat was bussed or something was messed up. I'm just trying to screw my head on tight and figure out what the heck happened, but the nose knows.

 

VOTE WOMBAT I think, as of now, knowing his alignment will be the most helpful thing to figure out some of this mess.

[Sakaea]

For now, I will confirm that I visited Wombat, but I'm going to keep why/for what purpose to myself for now. I believe a reveal on my part would be detrimental right now.

 

However, due to what all has happened, I believe Wombat's coroner report will help to clear a lot of the WIFOMs we have going on. So, Vote Wombat

[Sakaea]

Bugger.

 

Vote Wombat