A common misconception about Moiraine

[kght22]

 

People want to see a re-match because we want to see Moghedien get her ass kicked. More Nynaeve screen-time is just a bonus.

 

love the "more nyn as a bonus" attitude. always great to hear positive comments about protagonists.

[kght22]

Sharina is a novice, she was just lead novice

 

also, whoever stated mat isnt a bladesmaster is absolutely correct, we have already seen what mat can do against multiple masters with a staff/ashendrei(sp) in several occasions 1 with gawyn and galad (not sure if they are full masters at the time), the other stated time he specifically fights blademasters is in tear in the stone

gawyn earns his blademaster status in a very sad way days after that fight, galad was a better swordsman than him on the day of that fight and earns it a few months later. and i don't remember mattrim fighting any blademasters in particular, but he defeats a pretty elite aiel by the name of couladin with his ashandarei. but he did in practice defeat two practically blademasters at once with a quarterstaff while he was so sick that he collapsed soon after. that was without the wooden lathes striking any of his flesh. this is also the same time when gawyn and galad's master relates the story about the greatest blademaster in history, and the fact that he was defeated by a young farmer with a quarterstaff.

[Gabriel Kross]

Sharina is a novice, she was just lead novice

 

also, whoever stated mat isnt a bladesmaster is absolutely correct, we have already seen what mat can do against multiple masters with a staff/ashendrei(sp) in several occasions 1 with gawyn and galad (not sure if they are full masters at the time), the other stated time he specifically fights blademasters is in tear in the stone

gawyn earns his blademaster status in a very sad way days after that fight, galad was a better swordsman than him on the day of that fight and earns it a few months later. and i don't remember mattrim fighting any blademasters in particular, but he defeats a pretty elite aiel by the name of couladin with his ashandarei. but he did in practice defeat two practically blademasters at once with a quarterstaff while he was so sick that he collapsed soon after. that was without the wooden lathes striking any of his flesh. this is also the same time when gawyn and galad's master relates the story about the greatest blademaster in history, and the fact that he was defeated by a young farmer with a quarterstaff.

 

High lords Mat fought in Tear in the Stone were official blademasters (don't remember the names)

[capuga]

 

High lords Mat fought in Tear in the Stone were official blademasters (don't remember the names)

 

No, Mat fought Darlin in Tear who is not a blademaster per the scene (in aCoS I think) where Rand and Toram duel. The bubble of evil hits and Rand, Toram, and Darlin are there. Cadsuane says they have 3 fine swordsmen there, two of them heron marked (Rand and Toram). Darlin does seem to be pretty skilled though.

[Sharaman]

Darlin Sisnera. BTW is Lan or Rand an official blademaster? I don't think so. Though both have killed blademasters in duels.

[Gabriel Kross]

I'll look it up later, I was sure he fought multiple High Lords some were accidental knockouts if I recall but they should still count but I guess it requires further research

[Gabriel Kross]

Yes killing a blademaster grants you the right of blademaster as seen with Galad's duel even though Galad did not want to except the right

[kght22]

Yes killing a blademaster grants you the right of blademaster as seen with Galad's duel even though Galad did not want to except the right

killing a blademaster with witnesses. as tam al'thor did (something that annoyed me about one of the recent podcasts. tam says he guesses he is a blademaster because he killed a blademaster, and witnesses were there) but we are overhead viewers, and should be more interested in the realities than the minutia. and to call rand or lan a non blademaster might be technically correct (lan never attempted to become a blademaster, and there is no evidence that the dipshit lan killed in new spring really earned his sword) and rand didn't have witness for his killing of the high lord in falme, although his defeat of ishy there might count, as he and lews therin made the dance deadly as it were. (yah ishy/moridin is not just a blademaster, he and lews therin are what blade masters aspire to be) but regardless it isn't the designation, it is what you can do, and i think mat could likely defeat lan rand or anyone else in pure martial combat. if he has his luck of course, but even without it he would have a good chance.

 

but regardless, can we get back to moiraine?

i still argue that what she knows weave wise is completely unknown.

and to rephrase it, her tactics make moghedien look like a 150lb dog sumbling around in a corridor.

[Gabriel Kross]

Thank you for the Moiraine call back since that was what this thread was for

 

About Moiraine's knowledge, I think she has alot of the wondergirl weaves they reveal, remember she saw the future she probally saw alot of the weaves they revealed obviously she tells nothing of her viewings that have nothing to do with rand so yea

[kght22]

Thank you for the Moiraine call back since that was what this thread was for

 

About Moiraine's knowledge, I think she has alot of the wondergirl weaves they reveal, remember she saw the future she probally saw alot of the weaves they revealed obviously she tells nothing of her viewings that have nothing to do with rand so yea

that wasn't my meaning. remember the wise ones say that the memories fade to the point that you eventually only get impressions.

[Gabriel Kross]

Well I know that but you only have to see a weave once and it stays with you, honestly we have nothing to go by on the 20 year lapse tho so it will always be speculation kinda annoying but maybe AMoL will answer it

 

retract first part, that was nynaeve only that could do that

[Cillian]

Lan is awesome no doubt about it but I would be curious to see what would happen between Rhurac and Lan

 

people have too high an opinion of lan when it comes to his martial prowess as far as i am concerned. yes, he was possibly the most dangerous non channeler in the world, 10 years ago. nobody thinks about the fact that the man is old, blademaster or not age counts, even with the bond.

 

Lan isn't old though, he's mid-late 40's. Considering the bond hold vitality well into old age, & of course RJ's comment wasn't speaking of a 10 years younger Lan...

 

and even in the stories of randland the best swordmaster in history was defeated by a youngster with a quarterstaff.

 

A farmer with a quarterstaff, age not specified IIRC.

[kght22]

Lan is awesome no doubt about it but I would be curious to see what would happen between Rhurac and Lan

 

people have too high an opinion of lan when it comes to his martial prowess as far as i am concerned. yes, he was possibly the most dangerous non channeler in the world, 10 years ago. nobody thinks about the fact that the man is old, blademaster or not age counts, even with the bond.

 

Lan isn't old though, he's mid-late 40's. Considering the bond hold vitality well into old age, & of course RJ's comment wasn't speaking of a 10 years younger Lan...

 

and even in the stories of randland the best swordmaster in history was defeated by a youngster with a quarterstaff.

 

A farmer with a quarterstaff, age not specified IIRC.

 

thankyou for the admonition, well recieved. still think lan is overrated vs the younger masters.

[Gabriel Kross]

Hammer specifies the names of both IIRC however we are trying to get back on topic >.> maybe should build a seperate thread for the other debates

[kght22]

Hammer specifies the names of both IIRC however we are trying to get back on topic >.> maybe should build a seperate thread for the other debates

 

hell its your thread, though would be nice to keep to the orig, it is a good concept, what can moiraine really do. i find it insanely ironic that i am on the side of moiraine knowing more than we can expect and lan being not as badass as we could hope, both because of experience and age. sheer comedy if you ask me.

[ziipoo]

Honastly Perrin in Wolf(kill the neverborn)rage is something that should be considered. To me it seems like he is the ultimate berserk that gets stronger with rage and on top of it with higthened senses. A frickin killing machine.

 

Edit. Yeah should probably go back to moiraine.

[Mr Ares]

Excuse me for getting a little bit off-topic (the topic, as I see it, is quite "off" without my posts, so...), but can someone provide the quote by RJ about the six stronger than Nynaeve women. I have never heard about that. I assume the Forsaken are not included in the list, right?

Once again, I apologize for the off-topic.

 

 

Yes it does include Forsaken.

Here's the Q&A:

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Scottsdale Public Library, Phoenix Arizona 16 November 2009 - kcf reporting

 

Q: How does Nynaeve compare with Semirhage in One Power strength?

A: I’m pretty sure she’s stronger, but they are very close. RJ has a list of all the channelers' strengths. On that list, only six people are stronger than Nynaeve. It’s such a rare event that pretty much any time we meet someone stronger than her, it’s explicitly said. There are two One Power strength scales—an ‘old’ and a ‘new’. Nynaeve was the top of the female list for the ‘old’ list. Six are stronger on the ‘new’ list.

 

Brandon was pretty certain that Nynaeve is stronger than Mesaana, who isn’t particularly strong in Forsaken terms.

 

Leaving us with, in no particular order:

Graendal

Lanfear/Cyndane

Sharina

Alivia

Semirhage

 

Talaan of the Windfinders and Someryn of the Shaido are the only other possibilities mentioned. Talaan however is more likely and even then, she is only said to be as strong as Nynaeve not stronger.

With Someryn, it seems a bit of a long shot as she is only described as stronger than any current Tower AS (not including Egwene and Elayne) and Graendal describes her ability "as not inconsiderable" but still obviously still quite a bit under herself. Personally, I put her in around Egwene and Elayne, maybe as high as Mesaana.

i thought moghedien was the weakest of the forsaken, and equal in strength to nyn. i must be missing something.

 

Moghedien is the weakest female forsaken, possibly the weakest forsaken.

I really wish people would stop stating this as a fact when it isn't. It is merely opinion.

[Gabriel Kross]

Excuse me for getting a little bit off-topic (the topic, as I see it, is quite "off" without my posts, so...), but can someone provide the quote by RJ about the six stronger than Nynaeve women. I have never heard about that. I assume the Forsaken are not included in the list, right?

Once again, I apologize for the off-topic.

 

 

Yes it does include Forsaken.

Here's the Q&A:

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Scottsdale Public Library, Phoenix Arizona 16 November 2009 - kcf reporting

 

Q: How does Nynaeve compare with Semirhage in One Power strength?

A: I’m pretty sure she’s stronger, but they are very close. RJ has a list of all the channelers' strengths. On that list, only six people are stronger than Nynaeve. It’s such a rare event that pretty much any time we meet someone stronger than her, it’s explicitly said. There are two One Power strength scales—an ‘old’ and a ‘new’. Nynaeve was the top of the female list for the ‘old’ list. Six are stronger on the ‘new’ list.

 

Brandon was pretty certain that Nynaeve is stronger than Mesaana, who isn’t particularly strong in Forsaken terms.

 

Leaving us with, in no particular order:

Graendal

Lanfear/Cyndane

Sharina

Alivia

Semirhage

 

Talaan of the Windfinders and Someryn of the Shaido are the only other possibilities mentioned. Talaan however is more likely and even then, she is only said to be as strong as Nynaeve not stronger.

With Someryn, it seems a bit of a long shot as she is only described as stronger than any current Tower AS (not including Egwene and Elayne) and Graendal describes her ability "as not inconsiderable" but still obviously still quite a bit under herself. Personally, I put her in around Egwene and Elayne, maybe as high as Mesaana.

i thought moghedien was the weakest of the forsaken, and equal in strength to nyn. i must be missing something.

 

Moghedien is the weakest female forsaken, possibly the weakest forsaken.

I really wish people would stop stating this as a fact when it isn't. It is merely opinion.

 

LOL ^this!

[Mr Ares]

What do you find funny, Eternal Phoenix? My statement is accurate (there really is no evidence to support it, despite how often the claim is made), but I didn't think it was all that amusing.

[Gabriel Kross]

The fact that its obviously not fact and it had to be stated

[baalsmistress]

Of course, right now, Messana is the weakest of the chosen.

[Mr Ares]

The fact that its obviously not fact and it had to be stated

I don't follow you.

[Gabriel Kross]

WHOOSH

 

Anyways... Lets keep to the topic of Moiraine idc what but something about Moiraine, I actually was curious to where the first mention of Moiraine and Thom's relationship building I never saw it the first time before we finally read the letter

[Clouded]

WHOOSH

 

Anyways... Lets keep to the topic of Moiraine idc what but something about Moiraine, I actually was curious to where the first mention of Moiraine and Thom's relationship building I never saw it the first time before we finally read the letter

 

You only see hints of it a couple of times. Off the top of my head, there is the time Moiraine is talking to the girls and says she knows the face of the man she will marry. She could have known this from Min in tEotW. To back this up, Moiraine seems sure that Thom is alright after facing the Fade in Whitebridge.

 

As for evidence of them falling for each other, that's just as rare. I recall a meeting between Rand and Thom in Cairhien. When the topic of Moiraine comes up, Thom seems to drift off in thought saying something like ,"Moiraine, there's a fine woman, if only she weren't Aes Sedai."

 

Moiraine also speaks with passion with mentioning the knowledge of the face of her husband.

[Gabriel Kross]

Ah, so I didn't *miss* anything I just figured there would be an big obvious thing I shoulda seen and didn't