Most effective Evildoer

[TrueDark]

this post is titled "most effective evildoer". effect can be simply defined as how one changes a set of events. however in the case of the forsaken we must take in to account that any effect one does take can be countered by one of the others. not only that but they have limited supplies. so it is ideal that they gain greatest effect for the least amount of energy. for this reason i must choose moridin. not only did he remain undetected for soo many years. HE obtained the title of nae'bliss without any of the other forsaken ever suspecting it at all. the forsaken are the most trained and evil people willing to go to any ends for effect or information yet they still knew nothing of his asention to nae'bliss.

[Stubob]

One of the biggest clues that Moridin is behind Taim is the dreamspike over the Black Tower. Moridin did tell Graendal that he had found 2, but one was being put to good use.

 

The other big reason to pick Moridin is that through all his machinations, he's managed to stay alive, which is more than can be said for most of the forsaken, who are either permanently dead, left dead, or is imprisoned (aka mindtrapped)

Except when Rand killed him in each of the first three books... The only Forsaken who hasn't been killed or hit with negative attention from the DO is Demandred and he's been way too much of a non factor to be considered most evil.

 

Why has everyone been saying that Mesaana is behind the Schism? I remember she was there when they took Siuan but I always thought it came about simply from Elaida's power hungriness and Alviarin's manipulation, not Forsaken intervention.

 

Yes but Mesaana was almost certainly controlling Alviarin.

[Luckers]

One of the biggest clues that Moridin is behind Taim is the dreamspike over the Black Tower. Moridin did tell Graendal that he had found 2, but one was being put to good use.

 

The other big reason to pick Moridin is that through all his machinations, he's managed to stay alive, which is more than can be said for most of the forsaken, who are either permanently dead, left dead, or is imprisoned (aka mindtrapped)

Except when Rand killed him in each of the first three books... The only Forsaken who hasn't been killed or hit with negative attention from the DO is Demandred and he's been way too much of a non factor to be considered most evil.

 

Why has everyone been saying that Mesaana is behind the Schism? I remember she was there when they took Siuan but I always thought it came about simply from Elaida's power hungriness and Alviarin's manipulation, not Forsaken intervention.

 

Mesaana brought in the laborers who escalated the situation to open fighting. It may have got there by itself, but yeah...

[Mr Ares]

Moridin, assuming he's behind Taim.

 

I am convinced he is. He has adopted some of the affectations of the forsaken ('the so-called aiel') and was carrying one of the seals to Rand. The only place he could have got either from is Ishamael, as he was the only one awake to tutor him in these affectations and the only forsaken who could conceivably have come into the possession of one of the seals as well (among darkfriends he is obviously the most likely of all to have one).

 

And, I am re-reading Knife of Dreams and have just got to the epilogue where I noticed a detail that seals the deal for me: The floors of Taim's palace are all in red and black, Moridin's colors. In fact, it is remarked on twice. The second time: "The floor tiles were red and black here too. Taim must particularly like those colors."

 

That is exactly the kind of hint Jordan loves to throw in for his readers to make the connections. There is no other reason for him to be writing about floor tiles.

While I don't disagree that Moridin is likely behind Taim, I do disagree with your point about the seals. After all, Domon came across a seal, as did Turak, and there were others sitting around in Tarabon and Tear. Why couldn't Taim find a seal by himself, why does he need Ishamael to give it to him?

 

 

One of the biggest clues that Moridin is behind Taim is the dreamspike over the Black Tower. Moridin did tell Graendal that he had found 2, but one was being put to good use.

 

The other big reason to pick Moridin is that through all his machinations, he's managed to stay alive, which is more than can be said for most of the forsaken, who are either permanently dead, left dead, or is imprisoned (aka mindtrapped)

Except when Rand killed him in each of the first three books...

I know it's a bit pedantic, but Rand only killed Ishamael in the third book - he was only injured in the first two.

[baalsmistress]

And Rand didn't kill him permanently, so since he still had the dark one's good will, that was more of an inconvenience than anything else.

[gloweye]

Ishy all the way...Seanchan, messing with the three boys minds...later his puppet taim, his control of Slayer, his dreamspikes...

[Kaznen]

I'm surprised no has mentioned Taim in his own right. Maybe he got started by Mordin but he has founded a dreadlord recruitment/training center not only under Rand's nose but with Rand's blessing. And to top it off Rand has been in denial about Taim wickedness despite what Logain told him.

 

It would be like if most scientists in the Manhattan Project where going around talking about how awesome Hitler was and prepare to leave for Europe at the Projects completion and Roosevelt/Truman turning a deaf ear whenever someone brought it up.

[Smittyphi]

Mesaana for splitting the white tower in half.

 

Elaida did that. Mesaana and the Black Ajah did that but it would not have happened if Elaida wasn't power hungry. The BA wanted to control from the shadows, ie Alviarin.

[baalsmistress]

I rather suspect that the Black Ajah were more than half responsible for the deposing of Siuann and the raising of Elaida.

 

The actual split in the tower (blue ajah + rebels vs tower AS) came because of the coup, not the subsequent lunacy from Elaida.

 

Elaida with Alviarin's prompting (probably with Messana's hand on the tiller) was responsible for entrenching the ajah divisions post coup, but the initial acts, and I suspect much of the planning was Messana - remember, she was an administrator.

[SylvanFox]

Ishamael/Moridin was one of the first to declare for the DO, and he really hurt the AoL population because they had admired him so much. He also corrupted the Seanchan prophecies and possibly other aspects of their culture, foiled Hawkwing's plans to unite the world, created an unhealable, evil wound in Rand's side, collected an incredibly impressive number of objects d'power, figured out the DO, took control of the Forsaken (even the ones without mind traps), set Fain on Rand originally (and he has been a lot of trouble- he even caused another gaping evil wound in Rand's side), and somehow has impressed the DO way more than any other bad guys.

 

If we were talking non-Forsaken, though, Liandrin would be a good bet.

[Suttree]

One of the biggest clues that Moridin is behind Taim is the dreamspike over the Black Tower. Moridin did tell Graendal that he had found 2, but one was being put to good use.

 

The other big reason to pick Moridin is that through all his machinations, he's managed to stay alive, which is more than can be said for most of the forsaken, who are either permanently dead, left dead, or is imprisoned (aka mindtrapped)

Except when Rand killed him in each of the first three books... The only Forsaken who hasn't been killed or hit with negative attention from the DO is Demandred and he's been way too much of a non factor to be considered most evil.

 

Why has everyone been saying that Mesaana is behind the Schism? I remember she was there when they took Siuan but I always thought it came about simply from Elaida's power hungriness and Alviarin's manipulation, not Forsaken intervention.

 

Mesaana brought in the laborers who escalated the situation to open fighting. It may have got there by itself, but yeah...

 

In addition the Black Ajah was involved most likely by Mesaana's orders. Without the Black's vote Siaun would never have been deposed.

 

TGS

“Siuan was deposed by the bare minimum number of Sitters required,” Egwene said. “One of them was Black, making her vote invalid. You stilled and deposed your Amyrlin, murdering her Warder, and you did it unlawfully.”

 

“By the Light,” Seaine whispered. “She’s right.”