Future visions by Aviendha

[Din]

Also time line is not clear, but I believe we will see in the next book that Avi entered the glass pillars before rand healed thy own self on Drangonmount as such the history was going toward her visions future until rand changed the future by his choice to change

Now this is an interesting possibility.

[1Brotherbill]

Also time line is not clear, but I believe we will see in the next book that Avi entered the glass pillars before rand healed thy own self on Drangonmount as such the history was going toward her visions future until rand changed the future by his choice to change

Now this is an interesting possibility.

That would be a gigantic waste of my time if that was the case. Jordan always put huge things like this in the books to make a point. If it would all change because of the Dragonmount thing why bother?

[baalsmistress]

Perhaps the fallout of the Seanchan attacking the White Tower (presumably while their Prince of The Ravens is recovering the Horn of Valere) will be Fortuona being shamed enough by her persistance in bickering against other light aligned factions while the last battle is breaking that she gives up the Aiel wise ones and tower Aes Sedai that are now Demane. Or Rand gets annouyed enough with them over it that he does not enact a peace accord at all, and once the last battle is done, the nations of the world combine under the generalship of Ituralde and kick the Seanchan into the ocean

[mandersen]

I'm very strongly in the opinion that this future is serving as a cautionary tale for Aviendha rather than a certainty. My defense for my opinion is this: why would the author(s) show us a view of the aftermath that they know no one wants to happen? it serves no purpose to the story. The only purposes in showing glimpses of the actual future would be A) foreshadowing, and B) give hope to the reader that it will all turn out ok. This did neither. We KNOW that everything isn't going to be perfect right after the LB

The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade - Nicola, LoC 14

I'm convinced that the vision was one of the possible futures, if the knife teeters the wrong way. But it's WAY to detailed to be a real future vision, from a literature standpoint.

[baalsmistress]

The main and only difference that will make a tinkers damn is this. the main prophecies on both sides of the ocean are eerily similar. EXCEPT for one thing I noticed a few books back. The seanchan in their arrogance have altered their prophecies to show the dragon kneeling to the empress where in the karaethon (sp?) cycle it shows the exact opposite.

 

If rand kneels to fortuona then what aviendha saw will happen. knowing this I think she will make damned sure it never comes to pass in that way. Also as rand is now a force of light he is much much more powerful then he was when he was under the darkness. After he has returned in moridins body he will be different in many ways but the core of him will be whole. no matter how drawn out he is from tarmon gaidon he will not idly stand by and allow the seanchan to take over and destroy all hes managed to forge together.

 

As a side note my views on the ending are my own but the core of my beliefs regarding how rand will deal with the seanchan are on a whole I think a safe assumption.

 

Actually, Ishamael altered the prophecy, not the seanchan off their own bat.

[Din]

That would be a gigantic waste of my time if that was the case. Jordan always put huge things like this in the books to make a point. If it would all change because of the Dragonmount thing why bother?

I don't think it would be a waste of time. It's sure to have a large and lasting impact on Aviendha's actions and she's sure to be placed very highly amongst the Aiel.

[Tyzack]

I'm very strongly in the opinion that this future is serving as a cautionary tale for Aviendha rather than a certainty. My defense for my opinion is this: why would the author(s) show us a view of the aftermath that they know no one wants to happen? it serves no purpose to the story. The only purposes in showing glimpses of the actual future would be A) foreshadowing, and B) give hope to the reader that it will all turn out ok. This did neither. We KNOW that everything isn't going to be perfect right after the LB

The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade - Nicola, LoC 14

I'm convinced that the vision was one of the possible futures, if the knife teeters the wrong way. But it's WAY to detailed to be a real future vision, from a literature standpoint.

 

I agree with this assessment. Basically, the orignal ter'angreal rings show those who pass through what they need to know (to be leaders of their people). Avi already went through it when she became an apprentice WO. When she went through it a second time, the ter'angreal acted in the same way - they showed her what she needed to know be a leader of her people; execpt that this time, instead of showing the past, it showed possibile futures as a cautionary tale.

 

It's the basic paradox of time travel which I don't feel like restating here.

[baalsmistress]

I'm very strongly in the opinion that this future is serving as a cautionary tale for Aviendha rather than a certainty. My defense for my opinion is this: why would the author(s) show us a view of the aftermath that they know no one wants to happen? it serves no purpose to the story. The only purposes in showing glimpses of the actual future would be A) foreshadowing, and B) give hope to the reader that it will all turn out ok. This did neither. We KNOW that everything isn't going to be perfect right after the LB

The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade - Nicola, LoC 14

I'm convinced that the vision was one of the possible futures, if the knife teeters the wrong way. But it's WAY to detailed to be a real future vision, from a literature standpoint.

 

I agree with this assessment. Basically, the orignal ter'angreal rings show those who pass through what they need to know (to be leaders of their people). Avi already went through it when she became an apprentice WO. When she went through it a second time, the ter'angreal acted in the same way - they showed her what she needed to know be a leader of her people; execpt that this time, instead of showing the past, it showed possibile futures as a cautionary tale.

 

It's the basic paradox of time travel which I don't feel like restating here.

 

It was not the rings that showed her the future, but the pillars. The first visit of the women to Rhuidean they don't step into the pillars. That is for men's first, and women's second visits.

 

The rings are for the women's first visit, and show them flickering possible future events probably via looking into the future in the mirror worlds. This is the one and only time that the rings have shown the future. THey did behave in a similar fashion to their former function as they did show viewpoints based on bloodline. The first viewpoint being the end of the Aiel, and the end of Aviendha's bloodline.

 

There is, potential merit in your view that the pillars are showing her what she needs to see, but I would contend that there is no evidence that they have ever shown anyone else anything other than the past through their ancestors, that we cannot possibly discount this future as being a 'cautionary tale', or a 'possible future'. It has to be, at the least, the most likely future outcome given the current state of the pattern.

[mandersen]

There is, potential merit in your view that the pillars are showing her what she needs to see, but I would contend that there is no evidence that they have ever shown anyone else anything other than the past through their ancestors, that we cannot possibly discount this future as being a 'cautionary tale', or a 'possible future'. It has to be, at the least, the most likely future outcome given the current state of the pattern.

 

I don't mean it's ONLY a cautionary tale. As in Once upon a time there were a bunch of people who liked fighting so much that they were all killed. I agree that it's the future as things are happening now. But it's not set in stone like a prophecy or foretelling. in that way it's a possible future, not an inevitable one.

 

And we don't know for certain no one else has seen this future vision, only that no one's lived through a second time through the columns. If a lot can't live through the first time through, learning the past, how many could make it through seeing that future (and understanding it means they have to return to the way of the leaf)? These are opinions, but obviously people have tried going in again and haven't returned, else where would the wise ones' statement "more than once to rhuidean for a man means death, more than twice for a woman (paraphrased)"?

 

Anyway, i still contend that post LB won't turn out that way just from a writing standpoint. It has no place in the story if it's the real future. it's like putting the epilogue 2/3rds of the way in.

[jsbrads]

also future Aiel blame Rand for not giving them a place in the future, but they don't need to be given a place, they have a place should they choose to accept it. They are the Aiel, they follow the way of the leaf, they serve the Aes Sedai, and they don't get drafted into the army, and channelers are removed from the population to become Aes Sedai.

 

They have no one to blame but themselves for not returning to their religion/profession now that they know what it is.

[David Selig]

also future Aiel blame Rand for not giving them a place in the future, but they don't need to be given a place, they have a place should they choose to accept it. They are the Aiel, they follow the way of the leaf, they serve the Aes Sedai, and they don't get drafted into the army, and channelers are removed from the population to become Aes Sedai.

 

They have no one to blame but themselves for not returning to their religion/profession now that they know what it is.

 

Sure, it's Aiel's fault for not completely turning around their whole way of life in order to become the same as their ancestors were mere 3500 years ago....

 

Who cares what their ancestors did that long ago, that would be a completely idiotic reason to change their whole lifestyle and mentality.