We Are All Far Worse Than The Cairhienin

[contempt]

I just started TGS on my first re-read & I realized how much Jordan had turned us all into one of the very people we were supposed to laugh at!

 

The Cairhienin are the best at Daes Dae'mar, and I now see how much I've been dissecting almost every sentence in RJ's books for hidden meanings, hints, "I wonder what she really meant by that?", etc. We all have, as is evidenced by the very existence of this site.

 

The first time I read the series I wanted to avoid spoilers, so I didn't use any online resources. But in this read-through, I've constantly had tabs open to encyclopaedia-wot, wot.wikia, 13depository & Leighs Re-Read. By LOC I started keeping flow-charts! And I was still enjoying myself so much that I never even realized what I was actually doing was a lot more like research for a college exam than reading for pleasure.

 

After finishing Chapter 3 of TGS it hit me just how different Brandon's style is in the subtlety department. I didn't notice it the first time I read the last two books, but when I saw the contrast between authors this time around, I realized how much I've been acting like the very worst Cairhienin Lord!

 

I thought I had suddenly become much more clever the first time I started TGS. But this time I realized it wasn't me, it just got a whole lot easier. As soon as Aviendha first pondered why she was being punished, I remembered I thought that was so obvious the first time I read it. And it wasn't just that by far, the examples were piling up even at that point, that's just when I felt the need to stop & come here to share my thoughts. Certain aspects of the story are much more straight-forward in the last two books.

 

I'm not at all trying to say BS is an inferior author. On the contrary, I think he's very talented, just in a different way. And I know there were & are still a lot of great things to puzzle out yet. But compared to RJ's style, it's almost like a flashing neon sign in one paragraph, and then just in case you missed it, he hits you in the head with a frying pan in the next one.

 

I'm sure all of you have realized all of this long ago & I don't really have a point here, except to say I just got it too.

[FarShainMael]

Idk about 'we', there are a few of us (I think) on the boards who lack the ability to play daes dae'mar and even to undertand how it works - but I do know what you mean about research, though my approach is more engineering-analytical. But it's quite educational for me when someone makes a point based on subtext and reading between the lines, and I think, 'oh, so that's what that was all about'. As for comparing authors, I can only see the general outline - BS' style is perhaps more hurried than RJ's, though that's possibly because he wants to get the series finished and out of the way so he can go back to his own arcs.

[Luckers]

Mmm. Brandon likes to lay things out quite bluntly. It's a result of his style, I think--if you watch the Fantasy Forums interview he talks about the way he writes the first draft, which is essentially to lay down the relevent plot points, and then he later goes back and edits for prose and so forth.

 

On the one hand this allows Brandon to produce a lot of material in a short time, but the story isn't as subtle. I'm a big fan of that subtlety, but some prefer the brevity of Brandon's style. It's really a matter of personal opinion, I think.

[Xcorpyo001]

He may have a different writing style, but the fact that the series is at an end doesn't help him much.

In these last books everything should be revealed, all the the arcs resolved, etc.

It's not a lot of room to hit us with many more secrets, which have to be revealed in the next chapters, because there is not much time left.

I think that after the last book, we'll be here arguing that even Brandon didn't used the frying pan often enough.

It's not a lot of time/space to solve all the puzzles RJ thrown in this series.

And RJ planed to do it in one book. BS had three to do it. I wonder how TGS, ToM and aMoL would have looked in one single book. A lot of frying pans per chapter, and we still would have begged for more.

[Suttree]

I think that after the last book, we'll be here arguing that even Brandon didn't used the frying pan often enough.

 

This is pretty much impossible.

 

As thankful as I am that BS stepped in to finish the WoT, subtly isn't a strength of his. He holds our hands and uses a sledge hammer far too much of the time.

[Rose]

I don't think it would have happened in a single book. RJ was kidding himself. We were in for at least another half dozen ;)

 

Anyway, I did notice the difference between the two as well, but I rather liked it, especially when he did it with things we already knew from the past, but just to remind us. There are lots of reminders in TGS, explicit places where Brandon points out things from previous books that help understand what is happening, why a character behaves in a certain way and how it all got there.

[JeffWeissberg]

My first time reading tGS and ToM, I didn't really care so much about the differences in the writing styles. But that was because I was so focused on the plot resolutions, i didn't concentrate so much on the prose itself. On rereads however, I definitely notice the differences in voice and the subtlety. But hey, we're a million times better off than if we didn't have anything so I'm not going to complain. :)

[Dai Aldazar]

I believe i read somewhere that RJ planned on leaving a fair amount of plot threads open at the end. Basically critical threads needed for the main plot will be resolved and a few random/planned threads. I do not see the need to resolve the Seanchan and Aiel threads in order to wrap up TG. Its likely that Aviendha's viewings were as close to resolution as we will get for the Aiel and Seanchan.

 

I would like to get a nice neat everything is wrapped up ending but franky WoT is to massive to ever have closure on every plot thread.

 

I think if RJ had finished the series in one book we would have had something as big as two reams of paper with pages as thin as bible pages in super small font that you would need a magnifing glass to read. I would have read that monster too.

[Terez]

I don't think it would have happened in a single book. RJ was kidding himself. We were in for at least another half dozen ;)

The only time he ever set a maximum on how many more books there would be that I know of was when he was writing COT. He said there would be 'at least two more, but no more than five' (including COT). He only started saying 'one more book' when he learned he was ill.

[Rose]

That makes more sense. "No more than five" means exactly the number we have now. I'm wondering though, would he really have been able to condense all that in 3 books? Brandon seems to move at a much faster pace and pack much more things in a single book than RJ did.

[Terez]

That makes more sense. "No more than five" means exactly the number we have now. I'm wondering though, would he really have been able to condense all that in 3 books? Brandon seems to move at a much faster pace and pack much more things in a single book than RJ did.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he would have been able to do it; I'm not so sure that Brandon's pacing is really an improvement. He just gives that impression.

[FarShainMael]

I know why - there's a distinct shortage of sniffs and skirt-smoothings in TGS and TOM

[Dastion]

Anyone else think the OP was referring to an entirely different aspect of the Cairhienin in reference to our society? :p

 

(Keeping it PG)

[Mats Spare Hat]

...What, you mean short, big haired, drama queens?

 

*facial twitch at jersey shore reference

[Southpaw89]

I don't really think Sanderson is moving at a much faster pace, I just think that the story at this point is at a fast pace slide into the ending

[Luckers]

Mmm. With Jordan there would have been more periphery information, but not as much of the characters taking us step by step through their rationalisations. It evens out.

[Ogrelin]

I think the OP meant to point out that we'r all sitting here and try to find hidden meanings in the way the author tell the story, just like a Cairhienin would do.

[Terez]

Mmm. With Jordan there would have been more periphery information

And the periphery information - what RJ calls 'cinematic' writing - acts as a buffer that prevents things from feeling rushed. And as you say, it doesn't necessarily amount to a higher net wordcount than Brandon's style; it's just a completely different approach to writing.

 

I think a lot of people perceive RJ to have been on a downward spiral of pace from which Brandon has graciously rescued us, but most people noticed the return to fast pace in KOD, and most fans expected it to pick up even more in the 'last book'. That's just how the story was going.

[Rose]

Now I'm not complaining about RJ's style (I actually feel too rushed sometimes in the Brandon books), nor would I have disliked getting an extra 2 or 3 books to read (seriously, this is almost over ! I can't believe it). It just seems that way, but your analysis makes sense, too. For the record, I really liked CoT, and I must be one of the only ones ;) (but I also didn't have to wait for it so I guess that helps).

[Terez]

Yeah, I also liked COT. Not having to wait for it helps; not having to wait for KOD helps even more.

[Smittyphi]

Yeah, I also liked COT. Not having to wait for it helps; not having to wait for KOD helps even more.

 

Same here. I loved the Tuon/Mat scenes.

[Guest PiotrekS]

Yeah, I also liked COT. Not having to wait for it helps; not having to wait for KOD helps even more.

 

Same here. I loved the Tuon/Mat scenes.

 

Me too!

[Mr Ares]

That makes more sense. "No more than five" means exactly the number we have now. I'm wondering though, would he really have been able to condense all that in 3 books? Brandon seems to move at a much faster pace and pack much more things in a single book than RJ did.

KoD was announced as the penultimate book months before RJ's illness. RJ didn't intend one more book because he was dying, he intended one more book because he couldn't see a good way to split it, and maintained that it would be one really big book. In other words, splitting doesn't give us more story, it gives us the same amount in more chunks.

[Rose]

I'm not sure any publisher would have agreed to publish somehting that huge that as a single book ;) They probably would have ended up splitting it in 2 or 3 parts, even if it still was considered one book. Isn't this what they tried to do for AOL by the way? They wanted it to be AOL 1, 2, and 3 instead of TGS, TOM and AOL, but it didn't work out for some stupid technical reason?

[Leyrann]

It was just too big, and so they decided to split it. And with too big, I mean it was not possible to bind it in one book.

 

And it's AMoL, not AOL. (it too me a few seconds to figure out what you meant)