Terez - Member Share Posted September 8, 2011 (edited) So, RJ's concept of the Wheel is that all the myths and legends of our time are vague remembrances of the events in WoT, and their stories are sometimes very vague remembrances of events in our Age. Hence we have a lot of Arthurian legend and real world religions referenced, etc. This gets a lot of discussion. It occurred to me that there are at least three references to modern pop culture in the books. I think there are more that have occurred to me, but these three come to mind, and I think they're all deliberate: 1. Karate Kid (1984). The crane kick seems to have been referenced with Heron Wading in the Rushes in TGH (1990). 2. Terminator II (1991). This seems to have been referenced with the new breed of Darkhounds in TFOH (1993). 3. Ghostbusters (1984). Crossing the streams is bad. Very bad! From ACOS (1996). Can anyone think of more? Edited September 8, 2011 by Terez Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Cindy Gill - Donor Share Posted September 8, 2011 a lot of references to the aiel and rand's captivity and torture feel like lawrence of arabia, and somewhat like gunga din. i can't give scene specifics, but if you see the movies i think you'll see what i'm talking about. i also get threads of many classic westerns, but again, i can't be specific, cause i've seen a lot of westerns, and i suspect RJ loved him some westernes, and movies in general, too. and definitely many ww1 and ww2 movies, which, again, melt into a cultural consciousness that's difficult to disentangle, but can be sensed throughout. not too helpfull, sorry. but this is a wonderful thread, and i look forward to reading, better answers. thank you! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hael Me - Member Share Posted September 8, 2011 (edited) The duel in the Stone of Tear in TDR, when Rand is fighting Be'lal, both wielding shining swords made with Saidin, could be a reference to Star Wars, in a galaxy far, far away, the home of the mighty lightsaber... Edited September 8, 2011 by Hael Me Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Terez - Member Author Share Posted September 8, 2011 i also get threads of many classic westerns, but again, i can't be specific, cause i've seen a lot of westerns, and i suspect RJ loved him some westernes Indeed. He sometimes cited Louis L'Amour as one of the authors that influenced him most. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mackoY-kun - Member Share Posted September 9, 2011 Elayne's Atomic Gate way = Atomic bomb sort but way smaller. Saidin cleansing implosion = Ebola Virus bomb. I think someone else posted something like this awhile ago. These are sort of what I remember from that tread; Moghedien = financial advisor (how direct a refference can you get? I get a laugh every time I remember this ) Materese the Healer = Mother Teresa Tales of Mosk the Giant, with his Lance of Fire that could reach around the world = he also said this is moscow with his nukes. and his wars with Alsbet, the Queen of All = Queen Elizabeth? someone else said there was a rolls roys car hood in the panarch's palace. and of course the panarch's palace is a musuem. remember the dinosaur skeletons? from tEotW 4: the Gleeman Ages ended by fire raining from the skies = Asteroid hit earth theory and Ages doomed by snow and ice covering land and sea = Ice Age In aviendha's vision she seas some railroads being built in the waste. The Aiel are native americans being hunted into extinction? Shara = sahara desert KoD21: some sharan is selling silk worms. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ironisles - Member Share Posted September 9, 2011 Ebola virus bomb? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mackoY-kun - Member Share Posted September 9, 2011 Yeah! Sorry but it's actually from the movie Outbreak, but Ebola virus was the first thing that came to mind. Outbreak; Dustin Hoffman, Reene Russo and Morgan Freeman. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Terez - Member Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Elayne's Atomic Gate way = Atomic bomb sort but way smaller. Saidin cleansing implosion = Ebola Virus bomb. I'm looking more for pop culture references. Anla the Wise Counselor is probably the closest thing to what I'm looking for that was in that other thread. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ironisles - Member Share Posted September 9, 2011 Yeah! Sorry but it's actually from the movie Outbreak, but Ebola virus was the first thing that came to mind. Outbreak; Dustin Hoffman, Reene Russo and Morgan Freeman. Oh you mean the Daisy Cutter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLU-82 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Terez - Member Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) Yeah! Sorry but it's actually from the movie Outbreak, but Ebola virus was the first thing that came to mind. Outbreak; Dustin Hoffman, Reene Russo and Morgan Freeman. Oh you mean the Daisy Cutter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLU-82 I like that, mostly because it wasn't intended to be a weapon, but the witnesses came to see it that way. And of course, RJ/Nam. (But of course, I don't see that as being a pop culture reference but rather an influence from his own experience.) Edited September 9, 2011 by Terez Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Majsju - Member Share Posted September 9, 2011 The Song the tinkers are looking for is obviously All Along the Watchtower... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
contempt - Member Share Posted September 9, 2011 How about The Matrix (1999)? Even though Agent Smith shot him multiple times, the fact that Neo refused to accept it - or the subsequent bullets fired at him - made them irrelevant. Like TAR? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dewairah - Member Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) The Song the tinkers are looking for is obviously All Along the Watchtower... I'm pretty sure "The Song" isnt Stairway to Heaven!! I was listening to stairway to heaven while reading the part where the daishain aiel were linking arms around the mad male aes sedai and singing...trying to bring him back go sanity. just when the heavy guitars kick in at the end of the song, the male aes sedai started blowing them up. Twas gold. Edited September 9, 2011 by Dewairah Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Clayden69 - Member Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) How about The Matrix (1999)? Even though Agent Smith shot him multiple times, the fact that Neo refused to accept it - or the subsequent bullets fired at him - made them irrelevant. Like TAR? TAR was surely created before '99 Edit: re-read ur post do u mean The Matrix is based on TAR? Edited September 9, 2011 by Darren heron-Mark Clayden Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FarShainMael - Member Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) The Warder's cloaks remind me of Frodo and Sam's elven-cloaks! Edited September 9, 2011 by FarShainMael Quote Link to post Share on other sites
contempt - Member Share Posted September 9, 2011 Edit: re-read ur post do u mean The Matrix is based on TAR? Of course I cannot prove that & the Wachowski brothers would ever admit it even if I could prove it, but the WOT had been around long before The Matrix. I am just saying that they are all writers. And all writers have influences. Surely even the most skeptical of my idea must admit the similarities of TAR & the dream world of The Matrix. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Cindy Gill - Donor Share Posted September 9, 2011 The Song the tinkers are looking for is obviously All Along the Watchtower... there actually are lots and lots of dylan references, or at least things that make me think of dylan, but as he's said and done everything, it would be hard to avoid. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
UncleButcher1980 - Member Share Posted September 9, 2011 That's interesting, what do you think the Dylan references are? I'm a big fan of Bob Dylan but can't say anything ever stood out for me, but I'm not that observant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Cindy Gill - Donor Share Posted September 9, 2011 i can't call up specifics except as i read through, i'm sorry... that's lame, i know. the first thing i noticed was the most obvious, shelter from the storm. but there seems to be a ton of john wesley harding and blood on the tracks and street legal and highway 61 imagery. not that there wouldn't be with the messianic and political and odd comedic stuff, but as a bob-head, it always sings of dylan to me. the later work seems to get kind of time out of mindy, too, like cold irons bound and highlands and not dark yet. i guess more of a general feeling and little phrases that just pop out at me while i read. wish i took notes so i could say this better. when i read these books, i feel like i can sense some of the places the author was coming from, culturally i mean. i feel like i can tell what kinds of books he read, movies he watched, paintings, music... i'm probably delusional, but in reading interviews and stuff after i'd come to my own conclusions, i have found i was right about a lot of it. but again, both RJ and bob wrote/write about everything, so i guess there'd be plenty of room for coincidental overlap. *shrug* dunno, can't find better words. sorry again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
UncleButcher1980 - Member Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) No, that is really interesting, I wish I was more observant to such things when I read. I'm going to have to do a re-read now, see if I can spot anything. Actually, now that you mention it Not Dark Yet could be about Rand in his pre-Veins of Gold state, the first line anyway. Ha, and thinking about it further that line 'She wrote me a letter and she wrote it so fine, she put down in writing what was on her mind, I just don't see why I should even care' could definitely be about Rand thinking on his letters from Elayne in the Shadow Rising. I now have a strong urge to listen to some Bob. Edited September 9, 2011 by UncleButcher Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Cindy Gill - Donor Share Posted September 9, 2011 yes! that's exactly what i mean! i can so see RJ TooMing his butt off as he wrote some of that stuff. and i also must bob now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Terez - Member Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 I can see RJ being a Dylan fan, or Harriet, or both. But I was raised by my father to hate Bob Dylan. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Cindy Gill - Donor Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) i am sorry to hear that, but it's not uncommon. people have strong feelings about him, both ways. i posted this a few weeks ago in the BT song thread - it's from blood on the tracks, 1978, so the parallels are probably coincidental, but seriously can be interpreted WoT-ishly with no effort -- Changing Of The Guards Sixteen years Sixteen banners united over the field Where the good shepherd grieves Desperate men, desperate women divided Spreading their wings ’neath the falling leaves Fortune calls I stepped forth from the shadows, to the marketplace Merchants and thieves, hungry for power, my last deal gone down She’s smelling sweet like the meadows where she was born On midsummer’s eve, near the tower The cold-blooded moon The captain waits above the celebration Sending his thoughts to a beloved maid Whose ebony face is beyond communication The captain is down but still believing that his love will be repaid They shaved her head She was torn between Jupiter and Apollo A messenger arrived with a black nightingale I seen her on the stairs and I couldn’t help but follow Follow her down past the fountain where they lifted her veil I stumbled to my feet I rode past destruction in the ditches With the stitches still mending ’neath a heart-shaped tattoo Renegade priests and treacherous young witches Were handing out the flowers that I’d given to you The palace of mirrors Where dog soldiers are reflected The endless road and the wailing of chimes The empty rooms where her memory is protected Where the angels’ voices whisper to the souls of previous times She wakes him up Forty-eight hours later, the sun is breaking Near broken chains, mountain laurel and rolling rocks She’s begging to know what measures he now will be taking He’s pulling her down and she’s clutching on to his long golden locks Gentlemen, he said I don’t need your organization, I’ve shined your shoes I’ve moved your mountains and marked your cards But Eden is burning, either brace yourself for elimination Or else your hearts must have the courage for the changing of the guards Peace will come With tranquillity and splendor on the wheels of fire But will bring us no reward when her false idols fall And cruel death surrenders with its pale ghost retreating Between the King and the Queen of Swords Edited September 9, 2011 by cindy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
UncleButcher1980 - Member Share Posted September 9, 2011 From Street Legal I think. But yes, definitely a Wheel of Time feel to it. In fact I've always thought of that song as like a fantasy story, some wonderful imagery there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Cindy Gill - Donor Share Posted September 9, 2011 yep street legal. it's all i can do to stop myself from going through the whole catalogue and posting every other song for RJ relevance. but i can barely keep myself under control, and suggest (what i'm sure you already know) a cruise through the album and song sections of bobdylan.com, with the help of the friendly lyric search. i can make no sense until i'm out of the highlands... wish they'd let him do the whole side like he wanted. and, man, not dark yet... so good... and so rand. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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