Egwene/the Aes Sedai

[damandred]

Okay hands up maybe I went too far with whore, I got a bit carried away. I'm not a AS hater realy I'm not.honest. Some of my best friends are.....

 

I still think I have made good points about the ineptitude of the greens however. And who knows what a dozen Green sisters done for malkier? maybe they would of helped them hold out for longer until help arrived?

Agelmar says that if half Malkiers strengh hadn't gone they stood a chance, that was 5 thousand lancers. He compares Moiraines worth as 1 thousand lancers, so 12 greens, 12 thousand lancers? I don't blame AS for Malkier (its obvious a lot of Malkieier do though) but I think a green presence there might of made a differance.

[Suttree]

Agelmar says that if half Malkiers strengh hadn't gone they stood a chance, that was 5 thousand lancers. He compares Moiraines worth as 1 thousand lancers, so 12 greens, 12 thousand lancers? I don't blame AS for Malkier (its obvious a lot of Malkieier do though) but I think a green presence there might of made a differance.

 

That isn't actually what he says. It was not just a difference of 5,000 lancers, far more important were the borderforts being overrun since the DFs had stripped the garrisons. Notice also the spirit of the people had been shot by Lain's doom.

 

tEotW Ch. 47

Between them, Cowin and Breyan moved soldiers back from the Blight to seize the Seven Towers, stripping the Borderforts to bare garrisons.

"But Cowin's jealousy ran deeper." Disgust tinged Agelmar's voice. "Fairheart the hero, whose exploits in the Blight were sung throughout the Borderlands, was a Darkfriend. With the Borderforts weakened, Trollocs poured into Malkier like a flood. King al'Akir and Lain together might have rallied the land; they had done so before. But Lain's doom in the Blasted Lands had shaken the people, and the Trolloc invasion broke men's spirit and their will to resist. Too many men. Overwhelming numbers pushed the Malkieri back into the heartland.

 

"The first peal of the doom of the Seven Towers had been struck...no hope that Malkier could stand alone, with five thousand of her lances dead in the Blasted Lands, her Borderforts overrun.

[damandred]

But help was on its way. From other borderland nations and AS. Maybe with some green sisters they still would of been defeated. But maybe they could of held untill help arrived, and maybe seeing AS in the ranks would of lifted the mens spirit.

I cannot say with certanty that some sisters would of made a difference, but I think its wrong to say they defenetly would not have.

[Suttree]

But help was on its way. From other borderland nations and AS. Maybe with some green sisters they still would of been defeated. But maybe they could of held untill help arrived, and maybe seeing AS in the ranks would of lifted the mens spirit.

I cannot say with certanty that some sisters would of made a difference, but I think its wrong to say they defenetly would not have.

 

Yeah who knows I guess. I just think once the Borderforts were shot(which happened before anyone knew because of the DF plot) and trolloc were pouring in like a flood I don't know how a small contingent of Greens would make a difference. After all the Ashaman who are more skilled in battle weaves couldn't hold them back in Maradon. We know it went down real fast since...

 

tEotW

There was no time to gather aid from Shienar or Arafel

 

Regardless moving forward it is something the AS need to do especially since travelling could make all the difference in a situation like that.

[AquilaInfernus]

A few points:

There is the comment from Moiraine in NS that the WT kept secret the fact that they were too late to save Malkier after Lan questions her about it. So distance is a serious consideration.

There is also Beonin's(?) observations about the travelling ground protocols that have sprung up in the siege camp, AS secrecy prevents us the readers from learning a lot about what exactly they do. I would imagine that prior to travelling, quite a few sisters would spend a lot of time waiting for information in a known location before acting - keeping the reputation of AS by being overly cautious.

We just plain do not know if there were AS with the other forces heading to Tarwin's Gap in EotW, or assisting with raids in the rest of the borderlands.

Finally, what about the Warders, unless Lan is solely responsible for their reputation as Blight heroes, then no doubt their AS are nearby for healing etc.

 

Also, AS do not openly engage in warfare, except against Shadowspawn - Elayne remarks on the WT hedging its bets while she vies for the throne of Andor.

[damandred]

But help was on its way. From other borderland nations and AS. Maybe with some green sisters they still would of been defeated. But maybe they could of held untill help arrived, and maybe seeing AS in the ranks would of lifted the mens spirit.

I cannot say with certanty that some sisters would of made a difference, but I think its wrong to say they defenetly would not have.

 

Yeah who knows I guess. I just think once the Borderforts were shot(which happened before anyone knew because of the DF plot) and trolloc were pouring in like a flood I don't know how a small contingent of Greens would make a difference. After all the Ashaman who are more skilled in battle weaves couldn't hold them back in Maradon. We know it went down real fast since...

 

tEotW

There was no time to gather aid from Shienar or Arafel

 

Regardless moving forward it is something the AS need to do especially since travelling could make all the difference in a situation like that.

 

 

 

I don't think you can compare what went down at Maradon to Malkier.

I think its safe to say if Malkier had 100 Asha'man and 100'000 Arad Domani solders led by a Great Captain, Malkier would of chased the shadowspawn all the way back to SG.

No! Maradon was the start of the LB and I read nowhere that the shadow had anything near those numbers when they attacked malkier.

As has already been said who knows what impact a dozon AS would of done at Malkier, I think knowing how far away help was when Malkier was over run would give us some clue, but seeing as we don't *shrug*.

I think the point that it would of helped shienar if there was a green presence in the battle for the Gap can't be disputed.

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

But help was on its way. From other borderland nations and AS. Maybe with some green sisters they still would of been defeated. But maybe they could of held untill help arrived, and maybe seeing AS in the ranks would of lifted the mens spirit.

I cannot say with certanty that some sisters would of made a difference, but I think its wrong to say they defenetly would not have.

 

Yeah who knows I guess. I just think once the Borderforts were shot(which happened before anyone knew because of the DF plot) and trolloc were pouring in like a flood I don't know how a small contingent of Greens would make a difference. After all the Ashaman who are more skilled in battle weaves couldn't hold them back in Maradon. We know it went down real fast since...

 

tEotW

There was no time to gather aid from Shienar or Arafel

 

Regardless moving forward it is something the AS need to do especially since travelling could make all the difference in a situation like that.

 

 

 

I don't think you can compare what went down at Maradon to Malkier.

I think its safe to say if Malkier had 100 Asha'man and 100'000 Arad Domani solders led by a Great Captain, Malkier would of chased the shadowspawn all the way back to SG.

No! Maradon was the start of the LB and I read nowhere that the shadow had anything near those numbers when they attacked malkier.

As has already been said who knows what impact a dozon AS would of done at Malkier, I think knowing how far away help was when Malkier was over run would give us some clue, but seeing as we don't *shrug*.

I think the point that it would of helped shienar if there was a green presence in the battle for the Gap can't be disputed.

 

Well, if you ARE to conquer an entire country and not just a city, you DO need about a hundred thousand trollocs... otherwise you're just asking to be chased back with your tail between your freaking legs.

 

And how was help to arrive on time? If Shienar and Arafel couldn't get there on time, what makes you think Aes Sedai from Tar Valon could? Remember that they DID NOT HAVE TRAVELLING at that point in time.

 

Of course it would have helped Shienar if there was an Aes Sedai at the battle at the Gap, but that is an entirely different thing altogether than the flawed logic you cobbled together from Maradon and Malkier.

[damandred]

But help was on its way. From other borderland nations and AS. Maybe with some green sisters they still would of been defeated. But maybe they could of held untill help arrived, and maybe seeing AS in the ranks would of lifted the mens spirit.

I cannot say with certanty that some sisters would of made a difference, but I think its wrong to say they defenetly would not have.

 

Yeah who knows I guess. I just think once the Borderforts were shot(which happened before anyone knew because of the DF plot) and trolloc were pouring in like a flood I don't know how a small contingent of Greens would make a difference. After all the Ashaman who are more skilled in battle weaves couldn't hold them back in Maradon. We know it went down real fast since...

 

tEotW

There was no time to gather aid from Shienar or Arafel

 

Regardless moving forward it is something the AS need to do especially since travelling could make all the difference in a situation like that.

 

 

 

I don't think you can compare what went down at Maradon to Malkier.

I think its safe to say if Malkier had 100 Asha'man and 100'000 Arad Domani solders led by a Great Captain, Malkier would of chased the shadowspawn all the way back to SG.

No! Maradon was the start of the LB and I read nowhere that the shadow had anything near those numbers when they attacked malkier.

As has already been said who knows what impact a dozon AS would of done at Malkier, I think knowing how far away help was when Malkier was over run would give us some clue, but seeing as we don't *shrug*.

I think the point that it would of helped shienar if there was a green presence in the battle for the Gap can't be disputed.

 

Well, if you ARE to conquer an entire country and not just a city, you DO need about a hundred thousand trollocs... otherwise you're just asking to be chased back with your tail between your freaking legs.

 

And how was help to arrive on time? If Shienar and Arafel couldn't get there on time, what makes you think Aes Sedai from Tar Valon could? Remember that they DID NOT HAVE TRAVELLING at that point in time.

 

Of course it would have helped Shienar if there was an Aes Sedai at the battle at the Gap, but that is an entirely different thing altogether than the flawed logic you cobbled together from Maradon and Malkier.

 

 

 

Cobbled together logic? I think your confusing me with yourself! No! The trollocs were not just invading a country but the whole of the southlands.

Quote:

"Light" Ituralde whispered "If that force gets past us, there won't be anything in Saldaea, Andor, or Arad Doman that could stop it"

So there you go. And it wasn't a 100'000 trolloc's at Maradon but several 100'000. To suggest that anything even near that over run Malkier is a joke.

And I know Traveling had not been discovered when Malkier was over run, what I was getting at was how far away was the help when they were defeated? and could a Green Ajah presence have made a differance? I ask those questions because I think they are valid. Was help days away? If so a dozon Greens could have well been the differance. Weeks? Who knows.

Lastly even though AS didn't have traveling, they could manipulate the wind and river, like the AS did to get to Fal Dara in the GH, so who's to say how far behind the other borderland nations they would have been, if behind at all.

[damandred]

No reply in 24 hours does that mean I won? Yay!

[MasterAblar]

No reply in 24 hours does that mean I won? Yay!

 

Or, you know, everyone got tired of discussing a topic that has been beaten to death several times already.

[Mulk]

I don't know if you won or not.

 

I will mention that it's nigh impossible to expect there to have been any help available to Malkier (or at least any help that would have made a difference given how dire the situation is reported to have been) when there are no rivers running to it on any map of Randland I've seen, which is the only way the Aes Sedai had to speed up travel pre-Traveling; Fal Dara is about as close as you can get. It is overland from there. Further, Arafel, Saldaea and Kandor had no river available to use. That is also leaving aside whether there was enough shipping tonnage available to move an army large enough to matter, which I highly doubt. This isn't deep water we're talking about. Moiraine's trick of cleansing away tiredness won't work over long periods of time, and is a massive undertaking when you're talking about armies.

 

Whether it's right or not, Shienar does not appear to have had an AS present, and I doubt Malkier did either or it would have been mentioned. The only nations that had a prayer of responding anything like timely were Shienar and perhaps parts of Arafel. The rest would have taken weeks or months to even begin to respond substantively. We aren't given enough details of what befell Malkier to judge otherwise, so beyond knowing that the Malkieri were vastly out-numbered and vulnerable, we have nothing else with which to determine what should or could have been.

 

I don't think anyone would argue that a contingent of AS and Warders could have made a difference; not just in Malkier, but in Tarwin's Gap or anywhere else the Shadow attacks. We could all argue and what not over whether they should have had people stationed up there to help (in my mind, they should have, but that's only my personal opinion), but it doesn't change the fact that apparently there were none close enough to matter.

 

It is implied that Malkier was massively outnumbered and not fighting in a prepared defensive position, so one or two Aes Sedai would have increased the number of casualties inflicted, maybe even by an order of magnitude (though I doubt it, we're not talking about the super powerful channelers who can wipe out hundreds or thousands at a blow), but not otherwise affected the outcome. So the next closest group of channelers and Warders would have been at Tar Valon, and even with the measures taken to speed their arrival at Fal Dara in the beginning of The Great Hunt, we don't know how long it took them to go upstream all that way. Personally, I think two weeks is the absolute minimum you can allow between news arriving in TV to arrival of any contingent large enough to matter, and probably longer, given you have to have supplies and all else that goes into equipping an armed force, no matter the size. You also have to wonder how quickly the news got out. Apparently things were dangerous enough south of Malkier that many of Lan's bodyguards died during the trip, and survivors were all wounded, so it's logical to think that news was probably impeded from rapid dissemination and, as was mentioned earlier, the Aes Sedai tended to sit in one place until they knew for sure.

 

Just my two cents. /shrug

[damandred]

I agree Aiel with all you said, however the debate was about the Green Ajah and how much they deserve the self proclamed title of battle Ajah. And it came up if a dozen Greens were avalable to each Borderland ruler it would help in cases like Tarwins Gap. I speculated whether a dozen Green would have saved Malkier, and concluded that without knowing how far away help was we wouldn't know. Some people however stated they most certantly wouldn't have, so I played devils advocate. And still think a dozen Green would of made a difference even if it just meant saving more survivers.

[Mulk]

ah. Then you're probably right. I didn't re-read the whole thread, so I missed a few things, obviously. It's a hazard when you only stop by every week or so. My apologies.

 

I will add that I think it's a little unfair to blame the Greens wholly for that; or maybe it's better to say you have to blame the Tower as a whole as much as the Greens for their lack of presence where they were needed. It's an organizational sickness from the top to the bottom that is only now beginning to be corrected - there is way too much hiding away in the Tower and/or following your own desires and wants in the organization as a whole. The fact that Trollocs haven't been seen south of the Borderlands for almost 2000 years and that the Borderland armies have largely been able to hold the line unaided probably contributes to there being no significant Green presence handy when it was most needed. But they are no more guilty of that than the Yellows are of ignoring all other forms of healing (herbs, or the possibility of weaves that might better accomplish what they want to do). We could continue through all of the other Ajahs to a greater or lesser extent I suppose. All Aes Sedai are guilty, because they have not truly served as they should have as a whole entity. This is most elegantly demonstrated (imo) by Nynaeve's testing - her character growth is something most of us have cheered on, I think, and it is the antithesis of everything the Tower has believed and taught for hundreds of years and it is commended by Rand, the only one living who has knowledge of what the Aes Sedai were intended to be and is in the position to share such knowledge.

[damandred]

Again every point you make has merit, but I think your being a bit too kind to the Green Ajah.

 

Of course the WT as whole has declined steadily over 2000 years, and the quality of AS has fallen in power and charactor.

But have all Ajahs fallen behind in their respective missions as much as the greens.

 

You mention the Yellow Ajah and I admit they have been sparse in medical breakthroughs, but I would say the yellow is more a talent based Ajah and a calling, and along with the White and Brown, (though Rand opened up a school and before you know it we've got the Train!)

But the Green, Blue, Red and Grey have mandates that must take them out into the world to fullfill their goals.

I would say that on screen there has been refrences to all those Ajahs doing that except Green.

We have heard of the wars the WT has stopped presumibly the work of the Grays. It was two Blues who took on the course of the DR when he was a baby, that they were lucky to have been in the room when the Foretelling proclaming his rebirth, doesn't take away from the fact that they were doing blue work. And lastly the Reds if anything have been over zealous in their dealing which allowed them to be manipulated and all but took over by the black.

But the Greens nothing nada, I can't think of one instance in the books were a Green has been activly fighting the shadow beyond that of AS of other Ajahs, vague refrences of Cadsuane rooting out the Black is all.

I know we have no record of indiviual Green Sisters fighting the shadow and likely over the 2000 years many Greens gave their live fighting the shadow, but, having no presence on the border seems a too big of error and dereclic of duty that even 2000 thousand years of decline is no exuse for. (I am not too sure about your claim that the border nations have contained the blight that well in that time, I'm sure I have heard of other border nations lost to it, maybe I'm wrong)

But the most greavous error to my mind is that this Ajah should had a plan of action for something they all knew was coming, indeed what they were standing ready for, and that is the Dragons Rebirth. The herald for the last battle.

But no! These Greens should of as soon as it was confirmed the DR was loose should been implementing a plan tw0 thousand years in the making. Instead they were as ready as every other Ajah and that is not at all.

 

I consider them the most ineffective out of the Ajahs.

[Mulk]

I could nitpick each of the Ajahs - the key argument for the whole Tower being at fault is that almost everything they do, even up to an including finding the Dragon Reborn, has been for the benefit of the Tower, not for the benefit of the world at large, though in many cases the world at large is served to some greater or lesser degree.

 

The presence of a contingent of Greens (actually, Greens, warders and probably a group of Tower soldiers as well) is likely not a decision the Greens could make on their own in any case. I know the Tower doesn't direct the individual Aes Sedai or anything of that sort, but a manned outpost of Aes Sedai would likely require the approval of both the Amyrlin and the Tower Hall, in which case you are looking at the whole of the AS again, not just the one Ajah. Should they have pressed for it? Yes. Should the rest of the AS done it whether the Greens pressed for it or not? Also, yes.

 

Yes, the Greens are at fault. I don't dispute that, I just lay the ultimate authority for that at the feet of the AS as a whole. If the TOWER had judged there to be a need for it (as they should have), there would have been a presence in each of the Borderlands. Not just Green, either - Yellows at the very least, because all of those soldiers need healing, so where better to exercise your gift? And probably a Red or two in case the destabilizing presence of a male channeler showed up, because the worst thing in the world is for one of the Borderlands to have to deal with a False Dragon and have the Shadow attack at the same time. A clear thinking Amyrlin and Tower would have seen this and stationed people at the places of greatest likely need; you can't plan for greatest possible need, as it so rarely ever shows up, and when it does it never shows where you thought it would.

 

The Blues and their causes? What greater cause is there than fighting the Shadow? That's not to say all of them should be up there, but the Greens and the Blues have, apparently, been joined at the hip for most of living memory, so at least some of them should be making the rounds.

 

If the Browns are as thirsty for knowledge as they should be, there should be archaeological excavations on going at the remains of Mafal Dadaranell (if there are ruins worthy of the name, mind), Browns searching through the Rahad in Ebou Dar, given how very old that section of the city is, and pretty much everywhere else save Tear, given the High Lords' reticence and Rules, and maybe Far Madding. A lot of those cities have millennia of history that are surely yet to be fully plumbed. We generally hear nothing of it; they apparently spend most of their time studying the admittedly voluminous Tower records and library, and some should be, but the Tower doesn't come close to containing all knowledge.

 

I don't know what to say to the Whites - philosophy is esoteric and theoretical, and while it can and does have real world application, its practicers are likely to be a bit divorced from reality; at least, this is my experience in dealing with philosophers in real life, of whom I've known a few. So the fact that they might largely be in the Tower doesn't surprise me in the least.

 

The Reds carry out their mandate, mostly, yes. However, they have no compassion for those they capture (given not all men claim to be the Dragon Reborn when they find out they can channel, and none of them chose to be channelers), they largely hate men as a group, and are the single most sexist and unbalanced group of people we know of in the entire series. There is also proof, at least where Thom's nephew is concerned, that they don't always follow the law in the execution of their mandate. Further, the Tower has never to our knowledge held them up to the light and punished their misdeeds.

 

And, on top of it all, the Black infiltrated every Ajah, and the biggest reason they were able to do it was institutional denial of their very existence. Aes Sedai as a whole are very good at seeing only what they want to see, and not seeing what they don't want to see, and then hushing up when their plans fail. Which brings us right back around to my main point - the AS as a whole are at fault, and if any one Ajah fails to live up to its mandate, the rot is so deep right now I have to consider it as just symptoms of a greater problem, which is the AS as a whole are a bunch of self-centered, spoiled rotten, hypocrite brats. Of course there are exceptions, and changes are being made that hopefully will make for a better future, assuming the Last Battle is won. But I can't for the life of me understand why the AS aren't absolutely ashamed of themselves and their behavior.

 

Individual sisters go out and about doing things, but AS as a whole tend to stick to the Tower unless they have errands elsewhere, and the fact of the matter is that this is exactly the opposite of what should be if they really intended to be a great force for the good of the world they live in - they should be out in the world, save when they have errands at the Tower, unless they are on dedicated duty at the Tower, as a teacher or in the Hall or whatever. There shouldn't be ANYWHERE in Randland, save for some outlying villages, where no one in living memory has seen an Aes Sedai. If you are out and about doing good, people tend to learn to trust you. It's for this reason I tend to believe that there are, usually, some Aes Sedai wandering the Borderlands and that they act for the good - the Borderlanders are the only people group who have respect and reverence overall for Aes Sedai. Everyone else fears and distrusts them, even if they want their help.

 

Anyway, my reply has gone on long enough. :) Believe as you will. This is just how I reckoned things.

[damandred]

I agree with almost all of your views. And think you lay it out very well.

 

I would be instrested in hearing your thoughts on how you think the rot began, and if you think it was a case of bad leadership or a plan made, and implimented by Ishmael and the BA over millenia to corrupt the WT from within. Or a mixture of the two.

[Suttree]

I agree with almost all of your views. And think you lay it out very well.

 

I would be instrested in hearing your thoughts on how you think the rot began, and if you think it was a case of bad leadership or a plan made, and implimented by Ishmael and the BA over millenia to corrupt the WT from within. Or a mixture of the two.

 

Mix of the two...Ishy takes responsibility for the BA within the WT and I'm sure there have been leaders over the years such as Tetsuan and Elaida that haven't helped.

 

No reply in 24 hours does that mean I won? Yay!

 

Or, you know, everyone got tired of discussing a topic that has been beaten to death several times already.

 

Check

[Mr Ares]

The fact that Trollocs haven't been seen south of the Borderlands for almost 2000 years and that the Borderland armies have largely been able to hold the line unaided probably contributes to there being no significant Green presence handy when it was most needed.

I think this explains perfectly why there were no Greens stationed on the Blightborder. After the first few centuries of sitting around without much to do, there were bound to be a few of them wondering whether this was worth their time. If you consider that any stations they had there would probably not have operated without interference when Hawkwing was busy laying siege to TV, they might have decided there was precious little point in resuming duties there after the war. When TG was due, they'd surely have notice, right? The Green mission was rather different to all the others because it wasn't really something they could get on with right now. A Blue needs a cause to fight for, a Red a man to Gentle, a Yellow a sick person to Heal - they can all go out and find those things. The Green mission involved millennia of waiting. They didn't have anything to do until TG arrived.

[damandred]

I agree with almost all of your views. And think you lay it out very well.

 

I would be instrested in hearing your thoughts on how you think the rot began, and if you think it was a case of bad leadership or a plan made, and implimented by Ishmael and the BA over millenia to corrupt the WT from within. Or a mixture of the two.

 

Mix of the two...Ishy takes responsibility for the BA within the WT and I'm sure there have been leaders over the years such as Tetsuan and Elaida that haven't helped.

 

No reply in 24 hours does that mean I won? Yay!

 

Or, you know, everyone got tired of discussing a topic that has been beaten to death several times already.

 

Check

 

 

Oooo forgive me, but I thought that's what yous do?

[damandred]

The fact that Trollocs haven't been seen south of the Borderlands for almost 2000 years and that the Borderland armies have largely been able to hold the line unaided probably contributes to there being no significant Green presence handy when it was most needed.

I think this explains perfectly why there were no Greens stationed on the Blightborder. After the first few centuries of sitting around without much to do, there were bound to be a few of them wondering whether this was worth their time. If you consider that any stations they had there would probably not have operated without interference when Hawkwing was busy laying siege to TV, they might have decided there was precious little point in resuming duties there after the war. When TG was due, they'd surely have notice, right? The Green mission was rather different to all the others because it wasn't really something they could get on with right now. A Blue needs a cause to fight for, a Red a man to Gentle, a Yellow a sick person to Heal - they can all go out and find those things. The Green mission involved millennia of waiting. They didn't have anything to do until TG arrived.

 

 

There has always been raids and fighting at the borders and DF plots.

(Though the plots should be the Blues department)

Though I agreed with most of what Quite Aiel had to say I think it was his claim of a trouble free border, for 2000 years that was a bit off the mark.

Everything we've seen of the borderlands and of borderlanders as people suggest a tough and often short life. Exspressions like Peace and peace favor your sword, with the "peace" envoked with a special reverance because it is so rare are proof of that.

And somewhere in the back of my mind I seem to recall there have been different nations along the border, or maybe they were the same ones with different names.

[SuperFade]

Trolloc raids and skirmishes along the blightborder still happen, along with the occasional massive invasion a la Malkier. It may not be the Trolloc Wars, but the Blight is far from quiet for the most part. Plus, the stated mission of the Greens is to fight against darkspawn and dreadlords and the forces of the shadow. Since shadowspawn are stated to still encroach on the Borderlands from time to time, it would most certainly not be a waste of time to station Greens there.

[Suttree]

And somewhere in the back of my mind I seem to recall there have been different nations along the border, or maybe they were the same ones with different names.

 

Pretty sure post Trolloc Wars there was Basharande, Elsalam and Rhamdashar. From that Hawkwing conquered those kingdoms and made five provinces that later turned into countries during the War of the 100 Years...Saldaea, Kandor, Arafel, Shienar and Malkier. It was at that time they declared independence and pledged to aid one another in fighting the shadow.

[damandred]

Ah. Thanks

[Mr Ares]

The fact that Trollocs haven't been seen south of the Borderlands for almost 2000 years and that the Borderland armies have largely been able to hold the line unaided probably contributes to there being no significant Green presence handy when it was most needed.

I think this explains perfectly why there were no Greens stationed on the Blightborder. After the first few centuries of sitting around without much to do, there were bound to be a few of them wondering whether this was worth their time. If you consider that any stations they had there would probably not have operated without interference when Hawkwing was busy laying siege to TV, they might have decided there was precious little point in resuming duties there after the war. When TG was due, they'd surely have notice, right? The Green mission was rather different to all the others because it wasn't really something they could get on with right now. A Blue needs a cause to fight for, a Red a man to Gentle, a Yellow a sick person to Heal - they can all go out and find those things. The Green mission involved millennia of waiting. They didn't have anything to do until TG arrived.

There has always been raids and fighting at the borders and DF plots.

(Though the plots should be the Blues department)

Though I agreed with most of what Quite Aiel had to say I think it was his claim of a trouble free border, for 2000 years that was a bit off the mark.

Everything we've seen of the borderlands and of borderlanders as people suggest a tough and often short life. Exspressions like Peace and peace favor your sword, with the "peace" envoked with a special reverance because it is so rare are proof of that.

And somewhere in the back of my mind I seem to recall there have been different nations along the border, or maybe they were the same ones with different names.

Darkfriend plots can show up anywhere, and aren't the responsibility of any particular Ajah, or even of AS in particular. As for raids, it's doubtful even stationing the entire Green Ajah in the Borderlands would stop them. There just aren't enough Greens to go around. You'd need to have them very spread out - so the Shadow either raids where they aren't, or they attack in force an overwhelm the Greens. They would be of greratest use in groups, used to fight off large scale incursions - large scale incursions being rare. They can hone their skills by taking trips into the Blight, but that's practise rather than anything that's going to harm the Shadow. If you spend the thousand years after the Trolloc Wars fighting off the occasional attack, but half the time the fight is over before you get there anyway, then you probably won't feel this is the best use of your time - and if they were forced to leave during Hawkwing's time, then they might see precious little point in going back (or might go back and abandon their positions later, for the same reason). Yes, the Borderlands are faced with a constant battle against the Shadow, but the AS are too few in number to change that. Ultimately, they could do little on the Blightborder. Malkier was a rarity. Had they been there, they might have made things much harder for the Shadow, but considering how unlikely it was that something like Malkier would happen, it's no surprise they weren't there.

[damandred]

I agree DF plots are the responsibility of all AS, but I thought the Blue being the Ajah most equipt to counter them.

 

As for there being no point of a Green presence on the Border because the Trollocs only perfurm raids. By your own logic it would be a waste of time having any soldiers there at all.

The whole point of a raid is to strike quickly were you think defences are week then get out.

The trick is to place your forces (green included) where you think the raids would begin or places you think are vunerable.

 

As for the idea that Greens stopped from doing this by the rise of Hawkwing would not return, following his death is for me not very likely.

 

That's just my opinion though.