Lan Saved By Logain?

[Finnssss22]

 

I don't think that Logain would have dumped "his" Ashaman back in the Black Tower knowing what a dangerous situation was developing there. I don't keep track of the numbers though so you'll all have to work that out yourselves.

 

Exactly and what reason or point would there be to turn around and pull the the Asha'man back out of Illian, pretty much only days after being assigned there?

Nothing changed there like it did in BE, Rand wasn't pulling his resources out of Illian. They should still be there.

 

No, aside from the ones assigned to Rodel, I believe there's a fair sized contingent of Asha'man still out there. Most of which I believe are in Illian, where I also believe Logain is.

There has been no physical evidence to suggest otherwise at this point.

[FanoLan]

Are you serious? Rethink that a bit, man. (And reread the quote if necessary.)

Quite. I did you one better (though I did read it before posting, previously), I took out my kindle and reread the passages around that quote, in case you left something out

 

Let me explain my reasoning. The bonded sisters lived in the BT for some time. They had their huts there. When they were gone, Taim didn't claim those back (why would he? He expected everyone to return at one point or another). Pevara refrained from looking at the huts for what they represented, not worry/dislike of the sisters living in them. Finally, regarding Pevara's knowing what Gabrelle tried to do with Logain (supposedly she wasn't the only one, but that hardly matters), it's a no-brainer. Logain was back for a time; so must Gabrelle and Toveine have been.

 

Hi all - fwiw, imo, yoniy0 highlights an important distinction here vis a vis the residences of the bonded AS vs. the continued presence of the entirety of the bonded AS. The text, I think pointedly, avoids mention of Pevara actually seeing the bonded AS or even reflecting on having seen more than Gabrelle, in person, at any time up to that PoV.

 

On a meta-level, this fits rather well with the lack of specific information on Logain and the loyal Asha'man - indeed the mystery of one requires the lack of info of the other. The obvious lack of specific info re: one of the most powerful groups loyal to Rand Therin almost demands that we reach a conclusion other than their presence at the BT.

[yoniy0]

There has been no physical evidence to suggest otherwise at this point.

Except that Logain himself did return. I can't imagine why, but what's harder to imagine is a reason for him to return alone. Unless you care to speculate?

[Finnssss22]

There has been no physical evidence to suggest otherwise at this point.

Except that Logain himself did return. I can't imagine why, but what's harder to imagine is a reason for him to return alone. Unless you care to speculate?

 

 

Yeah but where's the timeline on that?

Here's what I have found...

 

March 16th: Logain arrives with Bashere at Algarin's Manor.

 

Apr 6th: Logain returns from dropping off Algarin (now under the name of Emarin in tribute to his brother most likely) at the BT and taking half of the full Asha'man to Arad Doman and Illian. Trollocs attack the Monor house.

 

Apr 7th: Rand sends Logain to meet with the Sea Folk.

 

Apr 9th: Logain has returned with news of the Sea Folk and the mass suicide of the Amayar. He accompanies Rand to his meeting with Tuon (Semirhage).

 

May 10th: Semirhage is released, attempts to capture Rand and is killed.

 

June 1rst: Rand almost kills Tam and leaves Tear and has his revelation on DM.

 

June 4th: Rand returns to Tear

 

July 2nd-4th: 30 days are almost up, meeting at the FoM is the next day, Rand sends Naeff to the BT, meets with the Borderlanders.

 

July 3rd-5th: Rand arrives at the FoM.

 

 

Ok so BS confirmed that the BT timeline is about 2-3 weeks behind everyone else at the end of ToM and needs to be caught up in the beginning of aMoL.

 

So where does that leave us?

Emarin's/Algarin's arrival at the BT was 3 months ago.

"Working leather" seems to be 3-5 weeks after that and it is also mentioned that Logain's leaving in the night with Donalo, Mezar and Welyn was also weeks ago at this point.

 

In asking me to speculate, I would say what makes the most sense to me is that Logain returned to the BT to take Donalo, Mezar and Welyn right after the Semirhage capture. Within a week of Emarin's arrival.

That's still almost 3 months ago in the main timeline and a little more than 2 months ago in the BT timeline.

 

"Something Wrong" seems to be about 2-3 weeks after "Working Leather" putting it where BS said it was, 2-3 weeks before the deadline for the FoM. Mezar had returned recently.

 

So either way, the return of Logain you refer to was a lot further back then you think it was and no where near the point in the main timeline that you think.

[Suttree]

There has been no physical evidence to suggest otherwise at this point.

Except that Logain himself did return. I can't imagine why, but what's harder to imagine is a reason for him to return alone. Unless you care to speculate?

 

Regardless of when it happened, this is a great point Yoniy0.

[Finnssss22]

There has been no physical evidence to suggest otherwise at this point.

Except that Logain himself did return. I can't imagine why, but what's harder to imagine is a reason for him to return alone. Unless you care to speculate?

 

Regardless of when it happened, this is a great point Yoniy0.

 

 

When it happens determines how much weight the point has though.

What seems like only a couple of weeks ago to the folks in the BT is actually almost 3 months ago for the rest of us.

 

For example, Pevara and her party don't even arrive at the BT until 2 weeks after Emarin's (around Apr 30th according to most timelines).

 

 

The main point I'm making is that Logain's solo visit where he took his 3 followers with him was a long time ago, was shortly after Emarin's arrival, before either AS Embassy arrived, before the BT reached the level of animosity spoken of in ToM 46 and looong before the Dreamspike was activated.

The further back Logain's last visit was, the less it means.

 

Logain to us, has been AWOL since Semirhage's capture (tGS Prologue) about 7-8 weeks ago but to the BT timeline, he has only been AWOL for about 5 weeks.

[yoniy0]

So either way, the return of Logain you refer to was a lot further back then you think it was and no where near the point in the main timeline that you think.

I actually didn't think it was all that recent. I'm fairly certain it didn't happened before Rand's meeting with Tuon, but that's all.

Also, what made you think Mezar and the others weren't with Logain before? Would he leave them behind to begin with? Perhaps, but I don't think we know for sure.

[Finnssss22]

So either way, the return of Logain you refer to was a lot further back then you think it was and no where near the point in the main timeline that you think.

I actually didn't think it was all that recent. I'm fairly certain it didn't happened before Rand's meeting with Tuon, but that's all.

Also, what made you think Mezar and the others weren't with Logain before? Would he leave them behind to begin with? Perhaps, but I don't think we know for sure.

 

 

See, here's the issue then.

Donalo, Mezar and Welyn are all with Logain when he arrives at the Manor house with Bashere.

Rand then sends Logain back to the BT to drop off Algarin/Emarin and to grab half of the Asha'man and assign them to Illian and Arad Doman.

Logain returns, the Trolloc's attack the Manor, again, Donalo, Mezar and Welyn are all present. All three participate in the battle and assist in its clean up.

Next is the meeting with Tuon (Semirhage), again, all three accompany Rand and Logain to this meeting.

 

According to Androl, Logain's last appearance at the BT was when he left during the night with Donalo, Mezar and Welyn. In the same PoV, Androl also mentions Emarin's arrival, that he just showed up one day with Logain.

The only way this all makes sense is that when Logain returned to the BT, he dropped off Algarin/Emarin. Donalo, Mezar and Welyn must of accompanied Logain when he did this. This is also when Logain assigned half of the Asha'man to Illian and Arad Doman on Rand's orders then left in the night with Donalo, Mezar and Welyn and returned to Rand.

So it absolutely HAD TO happen before Rand's meeting with Tuon (Semirhage). Algarin/Emarin's arrival at the BT dictates this.

 

No matter how you slice it though, that means Logain's last appearance at the BT was the first week of April and the meeting at the FoM is scheduled to happen in the first week of July. 3 months ago in the main timeline, a little more than 2 months ago in the BT timeline.

[yoniy0]

Donalo, Mezar and Welyn are all with Logain when he arrives at the Manor house with Bashere.

That's what I assumed, but I'm not sure how we know this. Do you mind elaborating?

 

This is also when Logain assigned half of the Asha'man to Illian and Arad Doman on Rand's orders then left in the night with Donalo, Mezar and Welyn and returned to Rand.

I disagree. Logain's KoD visit to the BT - when he took with him about half the trainees - doesn't fit Androl's account of when Logain vanished. For one, he left the BT with decidedly more than just Welyn, Donalo and Mezar. For another, he left with orders from the DR, which he showed Taim openly (though he didn't mention where they were going). That's hardly sneaking out in the middle of the night.

[Finnssss22]

Donalo, Mezar and Welyn are all with Logain when he arrives at the Manor house with Bashere.

That's what I assumed, but I'm not sure how we know this. Do you mind elaborating?

 

Actually, that's a good point. We are only told that Logain arrives with a party of Asha'man and Sisters, only Toveine and Gabrelle are mentioned by name. None of the others are mentioned by name when he arrived in Cairhein to grab the Warders either but I think it is safe to assume they would be the same ones that are there when the Trolloc's attack.

 

This is also when Logain assigned half of the Asha'man to Illian and Arad Doman on Rand's orders then left in the night with Donalo, Mezar and Welyn and returned to Rand.

I disagree. Logain's KoD visit to the BT - when he took with him about half the trainees - doesn't fit Androl's account of when Logain vanished. For one, he left the BT with decidedly more than just Welyn, Donalo and Mezar. For another, he left with orders from the DR, which he showed Taim openly (though he didn't mention where they were going). That's hardly sneaking out in the middle of the night.

 

Hey, don't get me wrong here, I'm confused too heh.

Everytime I think I have it figured out, something else pops up and throws a wrench into the fray.

Namely this...Algarin/Emarin's arrival at the BT, the Trolloc attack on the Manor house, the meeting with Tuon(Semirhage) and Androl's account of Logain's last appearance at the BT don't seem to mesh. I just don't see a reason why Logain, Donalo, Mezar and Welyn would return the to BT after all this, then leave in the night again.

 

Another possibility is that this could be a mistake by BS too.

[yoniy0]

I think it is safe to assume they would be the same ones that are there when the Trolloc's attack.

Okay, but how do you know they were there? They weren't mentioned by name, were they?

 

I just don't see a reason why Logain, Donalo, Mezar and Welyn would return the to BT after all this, then leave in the night again.

I agree, it's weird. But as I said, I don't think it could've happened before. We're just missing the reason Logain left Rand's side to begin with.

[Finnssss22]

I think it is safe to assume they would be the same ones that are there when the Trolloc's attack.

Okay, but how do you know they were there? They weren't mentioned by name, were they?

They are mentioned by name in the clean up in Nynaeve's PoV, Donalo is at least. His last name is Sandomere and sometimes that is the name used. Him and his bonded AS, Ayako are linked incinerating Shadowspawn corpses.

 

I just don't see a reason why Logain, Donalo, Mezar and Welyn would return the to BT after all this, then leave in the night again.

I agree, it's weird. But as I said, I don't think it could've happened before. We're just missing the reason Logain left Rand's side to begin with.

 

I know and I guess it could be possible that they went back to the BT to keep an eye on it for Rand after the Semirhage meeting, just it was never said either way.

Or, like I mentioned it could be a mistake.

 

Guess we can't rule out the possibility that Logain and the other 3 didn't actually leave in the night, as Androl thinks, but were instead abducted by Taim and his cronies and are prisoners in the BT.

Food for thought I guess.

[Sharaman]

They're all bonded to AS. Unless Taim picked up everyone and their AS "warders" at one coordinated go and that would require huge resources, it's not so easy to imagine they've all been grabbed and locked away noiselessly. All killed off without major explosions and counter-explosions is also difficult to posit.

Easier to assume Logain isn't there in the BT.

[Entreri]

Somebody will need to save his rear end.

 

That Trolloc horde is going to do a number of him. Unless that 12000 can all fight as well as the best fighter in the series/Lan, they are doomed.