Merrilor: A Big, Fat Red Herring

[Sharaman]

Rand says offhand that he thought she was up North in the Borderlands, perhaps in Arafel. He was in Tear at the time so Caemlyn and Arafel are both roughly North and a great distance.

However Caemlyn is NE and Arafel is more like due North IIRC. But nobody asked him to triangulate so he could be mistaking one for another.

I don't think warders and As can explicitly communicate via bond, they just exchange emotions and feelings.

[jwood01]

Maybe she had connections in Arafel for some more manpower or AS power to defend Caemlyn with? Alanna seems like suspect numero uno right now.

[Wantanswers]

I think Arafel is a good guess. After all Alanna is Arafellin.

[jwood01]

I think Arafel is a good guess. After all Alanna is Arafellin.

 

She is under 50 year old, so may still have familial ties in Arafel too. Maybe she is from a noble family and went to Arafel to get her family's men-at-arms.

[jwood01]

Although another thing we seem to be ignoring is that when Alanna disappeared there wasn't enough channeling for a gateway. Did she use the Ways?

[Wantanswers]

And when did she get the letter and whon gave it to her?

[Sharaman]

Although another thing we seem to be ignoring is that when Alanna disappeared there wasn't enough channeling for a gateway. Did she use the Ways?

Too many easy solutions

1) She was picked up by a male channeler

2) she walked out of there under disguise, picked up her horse and warder (the other one) and opened a Gate elsewhere

[Terez]

Reversed weaves.

[FarShainMael]

And when did she get the letter and whon gave it to her?

 

Verin couldn't be any more forthcoming with her than she could with Mat himself. When did Verin and Alanna last meet? Did Verin pass a letter then, with an injunction not to open it until a given time had passed? How long has she been planning this?

 

And are we drifting OT..?

[Wantanswers]

And are we drifting OT..?

Well, perhaps we are. But probably the Shadow will attack during the gathering at tFoM.

The WT is undefended So are Tear, Illian, Mayene and Arad Doman. And Altara would be as well if Tuon decides to attack Tar Valon.

No wonder everyone is looking for ways to avoid a disaster.

[FarShainMael]

3) Olver wins the game and reads the letter - Talmanes assumes Caemlyn is under attack

If we assume that Olver's win coincides for some ineluctable reason with Mat's escape from Ghenjei, then Mat's last vision is of Rand at Merrilor

Synching with Perrin's earlier vision of Rand, as Perrin says goodbye to Mat, this is likely.

Mat should get his lift back to Caemlyn from Grady either that evening, or the next evening.

 

Don't forget that Mat now has a channeller with him.. Moiraine. If she still has that angreal bracelet, and if she knows how, she can make a gateway for them.

Nope. She doesn't know the Travelling weave.

 

It seems that she might know it, but previously has not been strong enough to do it:

 

"The Ways are closed, and there has not been an Aes Sedai powrful enough to Travel since the Time of Madness,"

 

She has clearly been researching the problem. The ability to Travel would have been very helpful in he search for the DR.

 

As for the required strength, she now has that angreal, which she probably selected because it would give her strength at least matching that of Lanfear.

[Luckers]

3) Olver wins the game and reads the letter - Talmanes assumes Caemlyn is under attack

If we assume that Olver's win coincides for some ineluctable reason with Mat's escape from Ghenjei, then Mat's last vision is of Rand at Merrilor

Synching with Perrin's earlier vision of Rand, as Perrin says goodbye to Mat, this is likely.

Mat should get his lift back to Caemlyn from Grady either that evening, or the next evening.

 

Don't forget that Mat now has a channeller with him.. Moiraine. If she still has that angreal bracelet, and if she knows how, she can make a gateway for them.

Nope. She doesn't know the Travelling weave.

 

It seems that she might know it, but previously has not been strong enough to do it:

 

"The Ways are closed, and there has not been an Aes Sedai powrful enough to Travel since the Time of Madness,"

 

She has clearly been researching the problem. The abilit to Travel would have been very helpful in he search for the DR.

 

As for the required strength, she now has that angreal, which she probably selected because it would give her strength at least matching that of Lanfear.

 

No, she didn't know--her comment doesn't indicate an understanding of Travelling, indeed Moiraine was actually flat out wrong about that. There were many Aes Sedai strong enough to Travel, including Moiraine herself.

[FarShainMael]

It sdoesn't indicate a knowledge of Travelling definitely, but the possibility is open.

[Luckers]

It sdoesn't indicate a knowledge of Travelling definitely, but the possibility is open.

 

I don't see how it's still open. If Moiraine knew how to Travel, she would have done so countless times.

[csarmi]

FSM, we know as a fact that Moiraine would be strong enough to travel (she was one of the strongest AS before the supergirls and they all are - I mean the strongest AS).

I also believe that if she had even a hint on how it should be done, she might have figured it out. Egwene did, afterall and Moiraine did know balefire. (Yes I know that Egwene had a lot of clues)

[FarShainMael]

It sdoesn't indicate a knowledge of Travelling definitely, but the possibility is open.

 

I don't see how it's still open. If Moiraine knew how to Travel, she would have done so countless times.

 

If she thought she wasn't strong enough, she may not have tried it.

 

Actually, thinking about it, I think I'll go for the possibility that she had found some clues on how to do it, as Eg had from Rand (LoC27).

[Louise]

It sdoesn't indicate a knowledge of Travelling definitely, but the possibility is open.

 

I don't see how it's still open. If Moiraine knew how to Travel, she would have done so countless times.

 

If she thought she wasn't strong enough, she may not have tried it.

 

Actually, thinking about it, I think I'll go for the possibility that she had found some clues on how to do it, as Eg had from Rand (LoC27).

 

I wouldn't be too surprised if she did have some vague notion on how it's done, as csarmi said, she knew balefire.

[Luckers]

Well, again I would point out that her statements indicate a severe lack of knowledge on the nature of Travelling. Everything she thinks she knows is proven false--strength limits, how many can be moved via travelling (she thought that strength had a direct result on the amount that could travel, and that thus it was impossible to move a thousand via Travelling).

 

There is not a shred of evidence to support her having knowledge of Travelling, and everything that there is about her knowledge shows clearly that she knows less than nothing--it's all wrong.

[Louise]

Yeah I hear you, and agree. I was thinking more about the actual weave itself. Whether she may have had some inkling on how it was formed but couldn't make it work herself. I know this is probably a stretch but I do like to ponder uselessly on anything we don't know for certain.

[FarShainMael]

Well, again I would point out that her statements indicate a severe lack of knowledge on the nature of Travelling. Everything she thinks she knows is proven false--strength limits, how many can be moved via travelling (she thought that strength had a direct result on the amount that could travel, and that thus it was impossible to move a thousand via Travelling).

 

There is not a shred of evidence to support her having knowledge of Travelling, and everything that there is about her knowledge shows clearly that she knows less than nothing--it's all wrong.

 

Would you cite references, please?

 

I actually find this distinctly odd. Moiraine managed to find out how to do balefire (from some as yet unknown source), so why didn't she also find out how to do Travelling? Far more useful!

[Suttree]

Well, again I would point out that her statements indicate a severe lack of knowledge on the nature of Travelling. Everything she thinks she knows is proven false--strength limits, how many can be moved via travelling (she thought that strength had a direct result on the amount that could travel, and that thus it was impossible to move a thousand via Travelling).

 

There is not a shred of evidence to support her having knowledge of Travelling, and everything that there is about her knowledge shows clearly that she knows less than nothing--it's all wrong.

 

Would you cite references, please?

 

I actually find this distinctly odd. Moiraine managed to find out how to do balefire (from some as yet unknown source), so why didn't she also find out how to do Travelling? Far more useful!

 

It is a pretty big logical fallacy to assume that since she learned the weave for balefire she would also be able to do the same for travelling. One is a forbidden weave the other is one thought lost to the ages...

[Never]

 

I actually find this distinctly odd. Moiraine managed to find out how to do balefire (from some as yet unknown source), so why didn't she also find out how to do Travelling? Far more useful!

 

That's like asking why Nynaeve didn't discover flying; she figured out how to heal Stilling, and flying would probably be more useful.

[FarShainMael]

It's not a matter of logic - 'she knows this so she must know that'. It's a matter of what she needs. In her search for the DR she needs to be able to cover potentially large distances, so she would be looking for info on how to do that. Flying would be even more useful, but you can't lift yourself using the OP!

 

I've so far avoided making the obvious suggestion, as it's a bit deus ex machina, but: has she learned Travelling from the 'finns? They can't handle the OP themselves, but they surely have access to the memories of someone who does, and could plant that in her mind as they did to Mat.

[Sharaman]

From all we know, balefire is not a difficult weave and it was never "lost", just forbidden.

It would not need to be forbidden if it was an unknown weave, or immensely difficult to do.

Examples: Nyn does it by accident in TDR.

Cadsuane recognises the male version the first time ( probably?) she see it.

There's more than a hint there that Cad knows the saidar weave for balefire.

All the AS in Nyn's test in ToM recognise it when Nyn uses it.

 

Moiraine may have looked up a specific description of balefire mechanics and been able to follow instructions.

Or it may have been knowledge that Vandeme and Adeleas had, just as they knew the warder weave and emo-blocks Elayne learnt.

 

Travel is genuinely forgotten - and for the saidar version of the weaves, doing it from first principles, without any knowledge of TAR, is also apparently very hard.

Or else, it would have been rediscovered, once the world had settled down.

In that sense, an Aiel channeler without preconceptions of "evil to enter TAR in the flesh" would have a better chance of finding the weaves than someone like Moiraine, (who never displays any knowledge of TAR either).

That's why Egwene's TAR training proved useful.

Whatever Moiraine "learnt" about Travel as culled from sources that saw it as legendary and knew nothing about its mechanics.

[Luckers]

Well, again I would point out that her statements indicate a severe lack of knowledge on the nature of Travelling. Everything she thinks she knows is proven false--strength limits, how many can be moved via travelling (she thought that strength had a direct result on the amount that could travel, and that thus it was impossible to move a thousand via Travelling).

 

There is not a shred of evidence to support her having knowledge of Travelling, and everything that there is about her knowledge shows clearly that she knows less than nothing--it's all wrong.

 

Would you cite references, please?

 

I actually find this distinctly odd. Moiraine managed to find out how to do balefire (from some as yet unknown source), so why didn't she also find out how to do Travelling? Far more useful!

 

References? It's already been cited, but here you go.

 

"The question worries me, also, but I have no answers. The Ways are closed, and there has not been an Aes Sedai powerful enough to Travel since the Time of Madness. Unless one of the Forsaken is loose-the Light send it is not so, yet or ever - there is still no one who can. In any case, I do not think all the Forsaken together could move a thousand Trollocs.

 

 

Here is another...

 

"I will see you in the morning." Gathering the Power into him, life and death in swirling layers, he made a hole in the air taller than he was, opening into blackness that made the moonlight seem day. A gateway, Asmodean called it. -

 

"What is that?" Moiraine gasped.

 

Moiraine's lack of knowledge about Travelling is made clear time and again. She doesn't know anything about it, much less how to do it herself.

 

As for you question--why didn't she find out? Why didn't she find out how to fly, or how to kill the Dark One? Because she didn't, simple as that. The knowledge was lost for three thousand years. Balefire was never lost, merely suppressed. She might have found it useful, but for all that she was never sitting around with a AOL Aes Sedai going 'oh, I can only have one thing? Best be balefire then."