Will Rand Die?

[hazelkrs1]

We did that already. I won. Luckers didn't vote though. Sometimes he disdains my polls, no doubt with a sniff.

 

Yay! I voted and me and a third of Dragonmount are right!

[Terez]

Nearly half, if you go by the first question.

[hazelkrs1]

Grrrr you bumped it right before I did, Terez.

[Terez]

I can do that because I already blabbed my mouth about it in the thread, so I had nothing else to say but *bump*

[Gikimish]

There will be some twist in the last battle, we know

RJ has a great sense foe story telling and he did write that part but when all the dust settles rand can't die.

 

Here is the reason, we all know that all mins viewings come true if she knows what they mean. We know she had a viewing about rand and aviendha (spelling) kids.

 

And to reinforce my point we know that when nyneave goes to tell cadsuane where Perrin is the aes sedai are there drilling min about her viewings, and the one thinks

Ita no big thing cause she has seen things that can't happen till after the last battle, and min says your wrong if he looses there is no pattern.

 

So unless he gets with avendiha ( spelling agin) before he goes to last battle, there is no way he can't be standing after the dust settles.......,,,

[Durinax]

There will be some twist in the last battle, we know

RJ has a great sense foe story telling and he did write that part but when all the dust settles rand can't die.

 

Here is the reason, we all know that all mins viewings come true if she knows what they mean. We know she had a viewing about rand and aviendha (spelling) kids.

 

And to reinforce my point we know that when nyneave goes to tell cadsuane where Perrin is the aes sedai are there drilling min about her viewings, and the one thinks

Ita no big thing cause she has seen things that can't happen till after the last battle, and min says your wrong if he looses there is no pattern.

 

So unless he gets with avendiha ( spelling agin) before he goes to last battle, there is no way he can't be standing after the dust settles.......,,,

avi is going to the field of merrilor his equal, will confront him, and have makeup sex with him

[Gikimish]

I hope so because if not and he does die that would be a huge mistake, one you couldn't really look away from

[mackoY-kun]

I just recently found and read this site, see his references to Jesus? Wound on his side. Crown of Swords = Crown of Thorns. and others. He will most likely "die" but resurrect later.

[FarShainMael]

If Rand does die - and I'm pretty sure he will - the DO will almost certainly try to grab his soul. (Whether or not being balefired will save him from that fate is a subject touched upon elsewhere.) If he dies in any way involved with the shedding of his blood on the rocks of SG (i.e. by violence) then the DO will get him.

 

Is this is disaster? Not necessarily. What if it's what is needed - for the Dragonsoul to engage the DO on Its own ground? It would fit with Alivia 'helping him die' rather than killing him, I think.

[Suttree]

If Rand does die - and I'm pretty sure he will - the DO will almost certainly try to grab his soul. (Whether or not being balefired will save him from that fate is a subject touched upon elsewhere.) If he dies in any way involved with the shedding of his blood on the rocks of SG (i.e. by violence) then the DO will get him.

 

Is this is disaster? Not necessarily. What if it's what is needed - for the Dragonsoul to engage the DO on Its own ground? It would fit with Alivia 'helping him die' rather than killing him, I think.

 

Concerning Balefire, the quote from RJ makes it clear that unless a very small amount is used the DO will not be able to grab his soul.

[cmsnaith]

There will be some twist in the last battle, we know

RJ has a great sense foe story telling and he did write that part but when all the dust settles rand can't die.

 

Here is the reason, we all know that all mins viewings come true if she knows what they mean. We know she had a viewing about rand and aviendha (spelling) kids.

 

And to reinforce my point we know that when nyneave goes to tell cadsuane where Perrin is the aes sedai are there drilling min about her viewings, and the one thinks

Ita no big thing cause she has seen things that can't happen till after the last battle, and min says your wrong if he looses there is no pattern.

 

So unless he gets with avendiha ( spelling agin) before he goes to last battle, there is no way he can't be standing after the dust settles.......,,,

 

When Aviendha goes through her viewings at Rhuidean, she sees a possible future. In it, Rand is dead, the Last Battle is won, and they have had children. So, clearly, Rand may die at the Last Battle and still have children. Ergo, Aviendha will be with child before he dies.

 

However, in that viewing, Rand does not live on after the Last Battle. Is this possibly foreshadowing for us readers. Should we be prepared for no miracle resurrection? Must he surely die for good?

[Southpaw89]

When Aviendha goes through her viewings at Rhuidean, she sees a possible future. In it, Rand is dead, the Last Battle is won, and they have had children. So, clearly, Rand may die at the Last Battle and still have children. Ergo, Aviendha will be with child before he dies.

 

However, in that viewing, Rand does not live on after the Last Battle. Is this possibly foreshadowing for us readers. Should we be prepared for no miracle resurrection? Must he surely die for good?

 

No, the viewings say Rand left. Doesn't mean he died

[FarShainMael]

If Rand does die - and I'm pretty sure he will - the DO will almost certainly try to grab his soul. (Whether or not being balefired will save him from that fate is a subject touched upon elsewhere.) If he dies in any way involved with the shedding of his blood on the rocks of SG (i.e. by violence) then the DO will get him.

 

Is this is disaster? Not necessarily. What if it's what is needed - for the Dragonsoul to engage the DO on Its own ground? It would fit with Alivia 'helping him die' rather than killing him, I think.

 

Concerning Balefire, the quote from RJ makes it clear that unless a very small amount is used the DO will not be able to grab his soul.

Thanks to Lacanos for digging out this quote for me:

 

TOR Questions of the Week, December 2003 to April 2004

 

Week 3 Question: There are many theories that attempt to create a connection of time duration to the transmigration of the dead Forsaken. Are there time and/or power constraints on the Dark One's ability to transmigrate souls?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: There are definitely time constraints on the Dark One's power to transmigrate a soul. The soul doesn't have to be secured immediately - that is, the Dark One doesn't have to be ready to snatch the soul at the instant of death - but the longer that passes after the death, the less chance that the Dark One will be able to secure the soul. Someone who has been killed with balefire in actuality died before the apparent time of his or her death, and thus the window of opportunity for the Dark One to secure that soul for transmigration is gone before the Dark One can know that the soul must be secured unless the amount of balefire used is very small. Remember that the more balefire is used, the further back the target's thread is burned out of the pattern.

 

There's your quote :)

 

Consider under what conditions the amount of balefire used must normally be small.

 

'The Dark One doesn't have to be ready to snatch the soul at the instant of death.'

 

If It is not ready, It has this narrow 'window of opportunity' in which to act. The use of balefire will take the dead soul out of that window unless the amount used is very small. This I agree with. (How could I do otherwise, for thus spake the Creator! )

 

BUT..

 

What if the DO is ready to snatch the soul, as It certainly is concerning Rand since all Its attention is now focussed on him? Does It still need that'window of opportunity'? I suggest that It does not. I suggest that the time constraints of balefire no longer apply to Rand.

 

Of course I could be wrong, and probably am.. but it's interesting that RJ leaves a possibility open, instead of just saying 'Balefire removes a soul from the DO's clutches, and that's that'.

 

 

Oh, and one other thing.. does anyone besides Rand (and Moridin) actually know why balefire normally stops the DO from grabbing a soul? Or, for that matter, that the DO can transmigrate souls at all?

[yoniy0]

@FSM Rand may enjoy some sort of protection against being grabbed by the DO stemming from his being a hero of the Horn. Unlike most, those go to TAR when they die, and seem to all be free from the DO's touch (although being very tempting targets, I'd say). So the situation might not be as dire as one might think.

[FarShainMael]

That's a possibility, certainly.

[Luckers]

FSM, we had to get rid of the delete button for normal posters because it allowed the original poster to delete entire threads. We had a situation were someone got pissed off with how everyone disagreed with him, and deleted a thread of twelve pages in retaliation, so we booted it. I deleted your extras, but yeah, dont worry too much about accidental multi-posting.

[FarShainMael]

Fine, thanks. I had a problem at this end - the page was suddenly taking a very long time to reload after posting, and I assumed I hadn't got through.

[FarShainMael]

I just came across this, from http://www.theorylan...ain.php?i=37#2:

 

EDWARD LIU

 

Channeling saidin and the taint:

 

As some of you know, there was a pretty big debate over this topic, especially whether Thom could or couldn't channel, which I participated in. Well, I'm happy to say that I was mostly correct in my theories.

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

What RJ said was that once a man channeled he will inevitably die (if nothing else kills him first) as a result of the taint, whether from going mad and getting himself killed or from the wasting sickness. When I asked him if continued channeling only sped up the tainting, he said yes.

 

EDWARD LIU

 

So the theory that tainting only occurs upon channeling is incorrect as well as the conclusion that a man will only go mad or waste away after years of frequent channeling. The important thing is that once you've channeled, you're doomed. I'm not sure whether it's the first time you grasp saidin or the first time you channel that counts.

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

He said yes when I asked him something to the effect of, "When a man channels early in his life and never channels again, will he go mad or die from the wasting sickness?" I'd guess it's the latter, but I'm not sure. He pointed out that once a man channels he basically cannot stop himself. He (the man) becomes addicted to it; RJ made an analogy to a junkie: he might want to stop but can't. I know some of you might think, "Well he eventually dies because he can't stop himself from channeling, thus it doesn't mean tainting is a process unaffected by the amount you channel."

 

EDWARD LIU

 

Realizing this I asked, "Theoretically if he channeled once and never channeled again, would he still die?"

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

The response was still a yes.

 

From this, it seems that Rand, Taim, and a large number of the Asha'man will die sooner or later from the effects of the taint even though saidin has been cleansed.

 

Perhaps this is why Rand will need help dying?

[randomh3r0]

Here's my take on the OP question: When Moiraine "dies" battling Lanfear, her bond with Lan is transferred to Alanna. Even though we know Moiraine isn't actually dead after ToM, her transfer to the realm of the Eelfin/Aelfin somehow breaks a bond to a weave that only death should. So, there must be a version of this that could also apply to Rand. I know that the prophecies point out that he must/will die, Rand's never clued in anyone to his 3 questions/answers, which showed Moiraine what would happen to her, so I do believe Jordan does have an available loophole here to Rand actually dying.

My personal belief is that he will physically die, and be restored in Tel'aran'rhiod like Birgitte, and then be able to be physically pulled fromt he dream like her as well. I am not sure if he'll still be able to channel, or still share a consciousness with Lews Therin, but a lot of Mins visions haven't had the chance to unfold yet, and unless he gets Aviendha with child before the last battle, he somehow has to come back. Anyway, just my two cents

[Terez]

There are no loopholes in Min's viewing; we saw that played out in TDR with Leya. He has to die.

[randomh3r0]

There are no loopholes in Min's viewing; we saw that played out in TDR with Leya. He has to die.

Didn't say there was a loophole in Min's viewings, simply stating that Jordan left a couple of plausible "outs", so he can fulfill Rand's death, but not leave him dead after the fact... Birgette's TAR-made-life, etc. Or perhaps he'll simply be tied to the Horn, with Mat maybe summoning the heroes after the battle to say goodbye to Rand or something.

[joeron bigelow]

There will be some twist in the last battle, we know

RJ has a great sense foe story telling and he did write that part but when all the dust settles rand can't die.

 

Here is the reason, we all know that all mins viewings come true if she knows what they mean. We know she had a viewing about rand and aviendha (spelling) kids.

 

And to reinforce my point we know that when nyneave goes to tell cadsuane where Perrin is the aes sedai are there drilling min about her viewings, and the one thinks

Ita no big thing cause she has seen things that can't happen till after the last battle, and min says your wrong if he looses there is no pattern.

 

So unless he gets with avendiha ( spelling agin) before he goes to last battle, there is no way he can't be standing after the dust settles.......,,,

 

When Aviendha goes through her viewings at Rhuidean, she sees a possible future. In it, Rand is dead, the Last Battle is won, and they have had children. So, clearly, Rand may die at the Last Battle and still have children. Ergo, Aviendha will be with child before he dies.

 

However, in that viewing, Rand does not live on after the Last Battle. Is this possibly foreshadowing for us readers. Should we be prepared for no miracle resurrection? Must he surely die for good?

 

 

No - I think i figured it out. Rand uses the one power to freeze his boys. Nynaeve then stores them in her belt, and Rand's school figures out how to inseminate Avi after Rand dies...

[FarShainMael]

He may have inseminated her already, out in that snowfield, but her fertiised eggs just haven't implanted yet. The process is called embryonic diapause

[TristanWebb]

You think the audience is gonna buy that? Much easier to just have a foursome just before they travel to SG.

[FarShainMael]

I rather doubt there will be time. Or opportunity.