Football Season 11/12

[Corki]

Just created a team of mostly ex-Southampton players! Defence and goalies were a bit difficult! And Andrew Surman wasn't good enough to get in my team!

 

And come on you Saints! Top of the League as things stand!

[ineedfourberfs]

GO saints!

 

I had freakin Suarez AND Aguero picked out when I made my team, however the yellow markers next to thier name made me swap me out. Boo.

 

And what the hell happened to Liverpool in that second half. Did Charlie Adam take a vacay? And "Ping the ball up the front and let Carroll deal with it" is not a viable strategy for a team with such class.

[ineedfourberfs]

Also, joined the DM fantasy.

 

Prepare to be underwhelmed.

[Haxorsist]

After week 1 it's Czar Nikolai in first place with a smashing 65 points. In second is Maj with 41, and 3rd (not last. 3rd!) is yours truly with 40. Thank God for unlimited free transfers in week 2 cus I had made some horrible picks in week 1. Song! What was I thinking?

[Majsju]

I tweaked the team a little, and feel much better about it now. A bit sceptic about having Lampard though, if he does not deliver soon I might have to fire his sorry arse.

[Haxorsist]

Lamps will take Chelsea's penalties which increases his value a lot. That's why I regret not getting Rooney.

[Majsju]

Of course lampard will get his share of points. But, will he get enough to make up for his insane price tag? Or would it be bettter to replace him with a cheaper MF, making funds available for a better 2nd striker? Tough call.

[Haxorsist]

I'm feeling a lot better about my team this week. I will reign supreme!

[Majsju]

Ouch. Liverpool looked far from impressive, but still had little problem controlling Arsenal. Could this be the year Wengers stubborness really hurts the club?

[WWWwombat]

I just joined. I'm late and know nothing lul.

[Haxorsist]

Great. I sell Malouda and buy Terry. Chelsea couldn't keep the clean sheet for five minutes and Malouda scores. I'm glad we got the victory though.

[Majsju]

Being surprised that Chelsea without Essien concedes goals is like being surprised about Bendtner not scoring

[Krakalakachkn]

There really only one thing I dislike about soccer.

 

 

 

It's the fact that these men, whom most of the world treats as Gods (and will kill each other for), are nothing more than overpaid babies that fall if touched, sob if slapped, and act like bitches off the pitch.

 

I mean seriously, man up and quit being a much harsher word for a newborn.

[ineedfourberfs]

Interesting take, Krak.

 

There are definately elements of 'play acting' and big rich baby syndrome and such in the game, but speak to any fan and they will agree, that kinda crap is something no-one likes. Except maybe Italians.

 

The whiny types quickly lose any following they have gained, and do get a bit shunned. Look at Joey Barton from Newcastle, blows up a bit on twitter, listed as a FREE transfer, and so far no takers.

 

It's the same in any professional industry though, right? The whingers and whiners have such a stage that some of them can't help but take to it and shout out bullsh. That happens in Hollywood, it happens in music, it happens in sport.

[Majsju]

 

 

There are definately elements of 'play acting' and big rich baby syndrome and such in the game, but speak to any fan and they will agree, that kinda crap is something no-one likes. Except maybe Italians.

 

 

 

Eh...I would put Barcelona as undisputed #1 when it comes to that. Much, I think, because they have been very siccessful in selling the idea of being this "more than a club" and all that jazz, so they get away with it. And lately i think they are adding a bit extra just because they think it's fun to get Mourinho riled up, and who can argue with that?

[Guest PiotrekS]

Ouch. Liverpool looked far from impressive, but still had little problem controlling Arsenal. Could this be the year Wengers stubborness really hurts the club?

 

I think neither of the teams controlled the game and both looked really weak.

 

I can't agree about Wenger's stubborness - he's at Arseanal from 1996 and during his tenure Arsenal won three Premier League titles and five time was second. Arsenal is not able to just buy star players like other big English clubs and to pay them these riduculous wages, so it is also because of Wenger's policy they are constantly at the top.

[Majsju]

Ouch. Liverpool looked far from impressive, but still had little problem controlling Arsenal. Could this be the year Wengers stubborness really hurts the club?

 

I think neither of the teams controlled the game and both looked really weak.

 

I can't agree about Wenger's stubborness - he's at Arseanal from 1996 and during his tenure Arsenal won three Premier League titles and five time was second. Arsenal is not able to just buy star players like other big English clubs and to pay them these riduculous wages, so it is also because of Wenger's policy they are constantly at the top.

 

Lets put things in perspective here. Wengers first title came with a team mostly filled with players brought in by other managers. And his other two came with a team that still had key players brought in earlier, like Bergkamp, Parlour and Seaman. They were perhaps not superstars, not the fanciest players. but they were players who knew whast it took to get the job done.

Sure, Wenger did bring in some players like that, like Henry, Viera, Ljungberg...But then he forced them out because of age, even though they still had loads to contribute. And here we can compare with United. Wenger gets uncomfortable when a player turns 30. In United, Giggs is still playing at 38. When Scholes quit earlier this year, he immidiatly went into the coaching staff, neville will most likely join as well. Van der Sar will work part time once he has enjoyed some family time...

 

As a result, United keeps a lot of hard earned experience, and can pass it on to the new rising stars. And it is not only United, even an artificial team like Chelsea still makes good use of players like Lampard and Terry. Players who were there before the mafia-money started to pour in, and thus knows how to put up a fight when the wind does not blow your way.

Whereas in Arsenal, when a player starts getting really experienced, they are pushed out the door. And that shows. Arsenal can be amazing to watch when everything goes their way. but it is rarely you see them dig in deep and fight back if they have a bad start.

 

And that is one part of Wengers stubborness. the other is the style he wants to play. It is very one-dimensional, and very easy to read. People often say it is a light-version of Barcelona, but even Barcelona has a few more tricks up their sleeves, to shake things up a bit if they get stuck.

[Haxorsist]

Yeah, I'd agree with Maj about Wenger. Arsenal can afford to buy a decent experienced midfielder and a good center half, but Wenger insists on only using younger players. When they still had David Dein in the system they at least brought in good players, but now that he's gone they don't really have a counterweight to Wenger and he gets to do it his way.

[Corki]

Adam Oxlade-who?

 

I still think Chamberlain has made a poor career move in joining Arsene's kindergarten. He would have learnt plenty playing first team football for Southampton in the Championship. And as things stands, he may have been able to play top flight football next season!

[Majsju]

Kids these days, show them a fat paycheck, and they are perfectly happy to sit and freeze on a bench for a couple of seasons.

 

Speaking of kids, Uniteds new batch performed quite nicely today. But if Anderson intends to start scoring on a regular basis, he really needs to get himself a decent celebration, that dance is a disgrace to Brazilian samba

[ineedfourberfs]

I left 13 points on the bench this week. SIGH.

[Guest PiotrekS]

Ouch. Liverpool looked far from impressive, but still had little problem controlling Arsenal. Could this be the year Wengers stubborness really hurts the club?

 

I think neither of the teams controlled the game and both looked really weak.

 

I can't agree about Wenger's stubborness - he's at Arseanal from 1996 and during his tenure Arsenal won three Premier League titles and five time was second. Arsenal is not able to just buy star players like other big English clubs and to pay them these riduculous wages, so it is also because of Wenger's policy they are constantly at the top.

 

Lets put things in perspective here. Wengers first title came with a team mostly filled with players brought in by other managers. And his other two came with a team that still had key players brought in earlier, like Bergkamp, Parlour and Seaman. They were perhaps not superstars, not the fanciest players. but they were players who knew whast it took to get the job done.

Sure, Wenger did bring in some players like that, like Henry, Viera, Ljungberg...But then he forced them out because of age, even though they still had loads to contribute. And here we can compare with United. Wenger gets uncomfortable when a player turns 30. In United, Giggs is still playing at 38. When Scholes quit earlier this year, he immidiatly went into the coaching staff, neville will most likely join as well. Van der Sar will work part time once he has enjoyed some family time...

 

As a result, United keeps a lot of hard earned experience, and can pass it on to the new rising stars. And it is not only United, even an artificial team like Chelsea still makes good use of players like Lampard and Terry. Players who were there before the mafia-money started to pour in, and thus knows how to put up a fight when the wind does not blow your way.

Whereas in Arsenal, when a player starts getting really experienced, they are pushed out the door. And that shows. Arsenal can be amazing to watch when everything goes their way. but it is rarely you see them dig in deep and fight back if they have a bad start.

 

And that is one part of Wengers stubborness. the other is the style he wants to play. It is very one-dimensional, and very easy to read. People often say it is a light-version of Barcelona, but even Barcelona has a few more tricks up their sleeves, to shake things up a bit if they get stuck.

 

You make a good point (although to say that Bergkamp wasn't a star? He is IMHO probably the best forward ever when you look at technique and intelligence), but you gloss over finances. I don't know if Wenger "pushed these players out the door" or if they wanted to go for bigger money, whereas in ManUtd they can keep most of their experienced players also because they can pay them enough (look at Rooney last year). I also don't know if Wenger does not want to buy an experienced midfielder or whether the best are either taken or want too much money. Arsenal definitely could use some fresh blood and some experienced players, no disagreement there.

 

As to the first Wenger's title, notice that the last Arsenal's title had come seven years before Wenger won his first, so even if other managers brought in some good players, it still was Wenger who won the league with them.

[Majsju]

 

 

You make a good point (although to say that Bergkamp wasn't a star? He is IMHO probably the best forward ever when you look at technique and intelligence), but you gloss over finances. I don't know if Wenger "pushed these players out the door" or if they wanted to go for bigger money, whereas in ManUtd they can keep most of their experienced players also because they can pay them enough (look at Rooney last year). I also don't know if Wenger does not want to buy an experienced midfielder or whether the best are either taken or want too much money. Arsenal definitely could use some fresh blood and some experienced players, no disagreement there.

 

As to the first Wenger's title, notice that the last Arsenal's title had come seven years before Wenger won his first, so even if other managers brought in some good players, it still was Wenger who won the league with them.

 

I said Bergkamp was not a superstar, not that he was not a star. there is quite a difference. And I certainly don't agree he would have been the best ever. I don't really have a list, but i doubt he would make my top 10.

 

When I talked about keeping experienced players, I was certainly not thinking about Rooney. He is a superstar, at the moment possibly the best player in the world, and he is still young enough that he has not peaked yet. I was thinking about players like Giggs, Neville, Scholes, Van der sar. Players who has not had any major pay rise in years. Giggs still play, Scholes quit and went directly to coaching Uniteds youngsters. Van der Sar quit, and is an ambassadeur for the club, and will take up part time coaching. Gary Neville quit, and is now an ambassadeur for the club while he decides if he wants to go into coaching...

 

And players like Henry and viera should have been in a similar situation. they were both past their peak, so they could not have demanded any major pay rises. but they still had plenty to offer on the pitch, and in the dressing room.

Imagine having Henry around for 2 or 3 more years. Someone who had been at the bottom (his failure in Italy), only to fight his way up to the top. Viera did not have Henrys brilliance, but he had other qualities.

[Guest PiotrekS]

 

 

You make a good point (although to say that Bergkamp wasn't a star? He is IMHO probably the best forward ever when you look at technique and intelligence), but you gloss over finances. I don't know if Wenger "pushed these players out the door" or if they wanted to go for bigger money, whereas in ManUtd they can keep most of their experienced players also because they can pay them enough (look at Rooney last year). I also don't know if Wenger does not want to buy an experienced midfielder or whether the best are either taken or want too much money. Arsenal definitely could use some fresh blood and some experienced players, no disagreement there.

 

As to the first Wenger's title, notice that the last Arsenal's title had come seven years before Wenger won his first, so even if other managers brought in some good players, it still was Wenger who won the league with them.

 

I said Bergkamp was not a superstar, not that he was not a star. there is quite a difference. And I certainly don't agree he would have been the best ever. I don't really have a list, but i doubt he would make my top 10.

 

When I talked about keeping experienced players, I was certainly not thinking about Rooney. He is a superstar, at the moment possibly the best player in the world, and he is still young enough that he has not peaked yet. I was thinking about players like Giggs, Neville, Scholes, Van der sar. Players who has not had any major pay rise in years. Giggs still play, Scholes quit and went directly to coaching Uniteds youngsters. Van der Sar quit, and is an ambassadeur for the club, and will take up part time coaching. Gary Neville quit, and is now an ambassadeur for the club while he decides if he wants to go into coaching...

 

And players like Henry and viera should have been in a similar situation. they were both past their peak, so they could not have demanded any major pay rises. but they still had plenty to offer on the pitch, and in the dressing room.

Imagine having Henry around for 2 or 3 more years. Someone who had been at the bottom (his failure in Italy), only to fight his way up to the top. Viera did not have Henrys brilliance, but he had other qualities.

 

You really like Rooney, don't you? Good though he is, the best in the world?Don't think so! But that's beside the point.

 

You're right that it would be better if such players as Henry or Vieira stayed at Arsenal to play and later to coach. But Henry left for Barcelona and Vieira for Inter, so I would say they wanted to leave. Either they were less committed to the club than the ManUtd experienced players, or Arsenal was not able to match financial deals they were proposed the way ManUtd can.

 

There are some examples to the contrary though. Berkamp ended his career at Arsenal, after that he turned down a scouting proposal and decided not to go into coaching, but afterwards he changed his mind and began working at Ajax, not ruling out a coaching job at Arsenal. Tony Adams played at Arsenal to the end, I'm sure there are other examples.

 

So while I generally agree with your point that clubs need experienced players (not too many though, as in Chelsea now) and players connected to the club for years should be offered coaching or similar positions after having retired, I don't think we should blame it all on Wenger. He's an intelligent coach and if we see some obvious facts, we can simply assume he sees them too, right? It's not as though Wenger wasn't aware of things any fan knows of. There are probably various reasons why Arsenal is not so good in keeping experienced players as ManUtd is and not everything depends on "Wenger's stubborness".

[Majsju]

Heh, Nasri to City now confirmed. Mancinis spending is beyond ridicilous.