Big Explosion in Oslo

[Hallow]

There are other ways to learn how to shoot than serving in the military. For example, by being a hunter, which he was, and which is how he got the licence to own weapons.

 

Totally, was just pointing out that it's been confirmed that he has no ties to the Norwegian Military, past or present.

[Majsju]

According to his lawyer, Breivik has confessed having committed both terrorist acts. He has supposedly also explained his motives, but the lawyer does not want that information released until he has had some time to think about it.

 

They have also found a diary written by Breivik. Judging by that, it seems that he has planned this for 2 years.

[ROB_88]

i heard the first reports of the explosion friday evening. but since i was at an all weekend get together/party with some friends i tried not to think about it.

but now that i got home, it all hit me hard. i don't personally know anyone in the attacks but Norwegians has always been a brother-people.

 

the first thing i see when i got home was the memorial sermon, i'm not usually one for religious things, but that was just beautiful. i'm not ashamed to say that i cried a little, and that story Haxorcist posted just got me going again

[JenniferL]

There are very few acts that I will unequivocally call "evil". This senseless slaughter of children is one of the most evil things I can comprehend. Norway and my friends that live there have not been far from my thoughts this weekend.

[Wolfst3r]

My heart also goes out to my cousins in Norway!

 

Most icelanders flaunted at half-mast for respect to the norwegian people.

 

I just hope this will be the only attack of it's kind.

[Loreina]

I'm proud of our PM Jens Stoltenberg, who said we will respond with more openness and more democracy.

 

I admire his courage. I sincerely hope that all Norway will follow his example and remain firm in this resolve. The way our political leaders immediately jumped to use the post9-11 shock and turmoil to seize more power for themselves was appalling, frightening, and shameful.

I will keep Norway in my prayers.

[Balto]

I still have trouble understanding the magnitude of what happened. At first I thought the bombing was bad, and then I started realising what was happening at Utøya.

 

This was sung during todays church mess in Oslo:

 

To the youth - by Nordahl Grieg (1936)

 

Faced by your enemies

On every hand

Battle is menacing,

Now make your stand

 

Fearful your question,

Defenceless, open

What shall I fight with?

What is my weapon?

 

Here is your battle plan,

Here is your shield

Faith in this life of ours,

The common weal

 

For all our children’s sake,

Save it, defend it,

Pay any price you must,

They shall not end it

 

Neat stacks of cannon shells,

Row upon row

Death to the life you love,

All that you know

 

War is contempt for life,

Peace is creation

Death’s march is halted

By determination

 

We all deserve the world,

Harvest and seed

Hunger and poverty

Are born of greed

 

Don’t turn your face away

From needs of others

Reach out a helping hand

To all your brothers

 

Here is our solemn vow,

From land to land

We will protect our world

From tyrants’ hand

 

Defend the beautiful,

Gentle and innocent

Like any mother would

Care for her infant.

 

Translated by Ron Sinclair.

[Majsju]

PM Stoltenbergs speech at the cathedral, Link.

[Stitch]

This is incredibly sad, my heart goes out to those effected by this tragedy...

 

For those that aren't aware, Breivik wrote an expansive manifesto (some 1500+ pages) detailing his reasons behind his actions... I am not sure exactly what is in it (I am sure there are many investigators even now going over the document in great depth), however we are told that as a Christian fundamentalist extremist (the two are separate, its possible to be a fundamentalist without being an extremist) he perceived that Islam was a threat and that he was going to trigger a pre-emptive war (thanks go to the American Government for their wonderful contribution to the safety of people everywhere by the way) against the Muslim invasion of Europe...

 

Apparently he has admitted to the attacks but maintains that it was necessary and has not accepted 'criminal responsibility'.

 

-

 

There are those that would say he is insane, but I would state most vehemently that this is not so; that a man has different values from the norm and therefore the judgement he uses to engage in a course of action that we find reprehensible even monstrous does not mean that his reasoning is unsound, but rather that his values are.

 

He is not mad and should not be given any consideration that may afford him. He is not mad, merely monstrous.

 

 

 

edit: changed america to the american government... the organisation not the people are responsible for the initial error and its justifications... though the people should have ensured the error was fixed as quickly as possible which they didnt

[Majsju]

I am (slowly) going through the manifest right now. Some things,

 

He does give some reasons to why he did the attack. It is mainly because an idea that Europe is going through an islamization, helped by cultural marxists (and he has a very wide interpretation of who qualifies as a marxist).

 

The event that pushed him over the edge seems to have been Norways participation in the NATO bombings of Serbia.

 

He has been working on the manifest for about 9 years. He describes quite detailed how he plans the attack, with every aspect in there, getting money, chosing your targets, constructing bombs etc. Also how he took steroids to be in top physical shape. Basically, you have a handbook in terrorism here.

 

He talks about connections with likeminded in other European nations, and claims membership in an organisation called the Knights Templar (supposedly a continuation of the original). Their goal is to start a new European war, with the direct purpose of cleansing Europe of muslims, as well as the marxist elite.

He specifically names Geert Wilders as an inspiration.

However, all these connections are only providing ideological support, in everything related to the attacks he acted alone, to minimize the risk of discovery.

 

He presents a very twisted "analysis" of Islam, and buys into the Eurabia-myth that similar individuals have tried to spread for years.

 

He has copied several pages from McVeigh.

 

He considers himself conservative christian, and a supporter of israel.

 

The terror attacks were supposed to be a marketing operation, to help spreading the manifest.

 

 

 

Those are some of the key points from what I have seen so far. The most interesting ones are his European connections, Europol are taking them so seriously that they are planning investigations in several countries.

[Majsju]

Correction. He had copied some of the UNA bombers letters. McVeigh was mentioned as a good example.

[Red2111]

sad to hear this, glad they caught the people responsable.

 

last i heard the death toll was something like 95 confirmed, and that thier keep the court closed on this case. which i agree with, don't give this jerk a public forum, just give him the death penalty and get justice for the innocents that he killed.

[Hallow]

sad to hear this, glad they caught the people responsable.

 

last i heard the death toll was something like 95 confirmed, and that thier keep the court closed on this case. which i agree with, don't give this jerk a public forum, just give him the death penalty and get justice for the innocents that he killed.

 

Thankfully we don't have the death penalty in Norway.

[Majsju]

Following the press conference from the court.

 

Breivik pleads guilty to both attacks. He will be charged with terrorist crimes.

He will be detained for initially 8 weeks (maximum time in Norway, before it has to be renewed), 4 of these in full isolation. He will not be allowed visits other than his lawyer, and no newspapers or letters.

He claims he had to commit these crimes in order to "save Norway and Europe from cultural marxism and Islamisation"

He wanted to send a strong signal to the people, and cause as much damage as possible to the Social Democrats. He accuses the party of having betrayed the nation, and this was punishment for that. The attack on the island was aimed at cutting the flow of new members.

The aim was to send as strong signal as possible, rather than killing as many as possible.

He has claimed that there are two other terrorist cells in Norway.

 

 

The police will hold their own press conference later today. They have indicated that they might present a death toll that is somewhat lower than what has been reported so far.

[Haxorsist]

He pleaded not guilty, but did acknowledge that he had committed the acts mentioned in the charges.

[Red2111]

according to the news source i read, he's admitted to the killings which woudl mean he shudl also be pleading guilty link

 

Hallow - doesn't this guy diserve the Death Penalty rather than sitting in jail (likely solitary confinement considering his crime) for the rest of his life and wasting your tax dollars? i mean, why should citizens have to pay for his shelter, food, clothes and medical care when he took the lives of 95+ innocent to make a political statement?

[Haxorsist]

I appreciate this is an important topic, but let's not turn this into a debate about the death penalty. A thread about the death penalty can be made in D&D.

[Jon Paul]

He is not a Christian fundamentalist. He's not even a Christian. He is a "cultural Christian" Freemason who has hijacked Catholic iconography. Politically he's not even very right-wing. He's what I would call a "Liberal Nationalist". Think BNP, Geert Wilders etc.

 

This is from his book:

 

p. 1309:

 

A majority of so called agnostics and atheists in Europe are cultural conservative Christians without even knowing it. So what is the difference between cultural Christians and religious Christians?

 

If you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God then you are a religious Christian. Myself and many more like me do not necessarily have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God. We do however believe in Christianity as a cultural, social, identity and moral platform. This makes us Christian. …

 

European Christendom and the cross will be the symbol in which every cultural conservative can unite under in our common defence. It should serve as the uniting symbol for all Europeans whether they are agnostic or atheists.

 

The pacifist/suicidal Christians must never be allowed to dominate the church again which one of the reasons why I personally believe that the protestant Church in Europe should once again should reform to become Catholic (Nordic countries, the UK, Germany, Benelux etc). Re-introduction of cultural and Church aspects relating to honour should be the core of our objective when reforming the Church. My hope is that the future nationalist leadership in Western European countries will agree. At the very least, we must support the conservative, anti-pacifist cultural Christian leaders and ensure that they are able to influence the European churches. There must however be clear distinctions. The Church must not put any limits whatsoever on issues relating to science, research and development. Europe will continue to be the world’s center for research and development in all areas, strengthened by a predictable and “unchangeable” cultural framework. This again will considerably strengthen European and societal cohesion and therefore contribute to sustainable societies where harmony, progress, freedom and the furtherance of mankind are the primary civilisational pillars.

 

pp. 1345-1347:

 

I’m not going to pretend I’m a very religious person as that would be a lie. I’ve always been very pragmatic and influenced by my secular surroundings and environment. ...

 

Religion is a crutch for many weak people and many embrace religion for self serving reasons as a source for drawing mental strength (to feed their weak emotional state f example during illness, death, poverty etc.). Since I am not a hypocrite, I’ll say directly that this is my agenda as well. However, I have not yet felt the need to ask God for strength, yet… But I’m pretty sure I will pray to God as I’m rushing through my city, guns blazing, with 100 armed system protectors pursuing me with the intention to stop and/or kill. ...

 

If praying will act as an additional mental boost/soothing it is the pragmatical thing to do. I guess I will find out… If there is a God I will be allowed to enter heaven as all other martyrs for the Church in the past.

 

I am pursuing religion for this very reason and everyone else should as well, providing it will give you a mental boost.

 

pp. 1362-1363:

 

Q: Is it likely that Odinists will support the cause of the PCCTS, Knights Templar, considering the fact that many of them hate Christendom?

 

A: First of all, as a Norwegian, I am extremely proud of my Odinistic/Norse heritage as it is an essential aspect of my culture and my identity. However, things aren’t black and white. Supporting the Christian cultural heritage does not automatically mean you hate Odinism or vice versa. There are pragmatical considerations Odinists have to evaluate as well. Do they really believe the symbolism of Mjöllnir (Thors hammer) has the potential to unite the Nordic peoples against the forces we are facing? Do they really believe Odinistic symbolism would be more suitable compared to the uniting force of Christendom’s symbolism and that of the cross? Anyone with half a brain will know that only the symbolism of the cross (which is a part of all the Nordic flags btw with the exception of Germany) has the potential to unite us for this cause. Choosing to fight under the banner of the cross, does not constitute that you have to reject your Odinistic heritage in any way or form. As for their claim that a Christian principle of suicidal humanism is a part of the root of our current problems, I couldn’t agree more. However, instead of abandoning Christendom altogether I know European Christendom can be reformed. The Church wasn’t always as weak and suicidal as it is today. The Odinists needs to understand that the Church they hate is the cultural Marxist Church and not the real Church. The Church I love doesn’t exist anymore because it has been deconstructed. However, I know that it can be reformed and that it again will embrace and propagate principles of strength, honour and self defense. Instead of abandoning the Church we will save it and re-create it as a nationalistic Church which will tolerate and allow (to a very large degree) native cultures/heritage/thought systems such as Odinism.

 

As a cultural Christian, I believe Christendom is essential for cultural reasons. After all, Christianity is the ONLY cultural platform that can unite all Europeans, which will be needed in the coming period during the third expulsion of the Muslims.

 

Odinism is significant for the Nordic countries but it does not have the potency to unite us against such a devastating force as Islam, cultural Marxism/multiculturalism and capitalist globalism. Only Europeans, in solidarity with each other, can solve our current problems. As for secularism, are there any strong uniting symbols at all? I think not. In order to protect your culture you need, at the very minimum, strong, uniting symbols representing your culture. In this context, the cross is the unrivalled as it is the most potent European symbol. I have had this discussion with many Odinists, and even they understand this.

 

Odinists need not fear us as they should consider us brothers in our common fight. I strongly encourage them to support us. Because we might not succeed in our struggle to defeat the EUSSR cultural Marxist/multiculturalist hegemony without their support.

 

Q: Do I have to believe in God or Jesus in order to become a Justiciar Knight?

 

A: As this is a cultural war, our definition of being a Christian does not necessarily constitute that you are required to have a personal relationship with God or Jesus. Being a Christian can mean many things;

 

- That you believe in and want to protect Europe’s Christian cultural heritage.

 

The European cultural heritage, our norms (moral codes and social structures included), our traditions and our modern political systems are based on Christianity - Protestantism, Catholicism, Orthodox Christianity and the legacy of the European enlightenment (reason is the primary source and legitimacy for authority).

 

It is not required that you have a personal relationship with God or Jesus in order to fight for our Christian cultural heritage and the European way. In many ways, our modern societies and European secularism is a result of European Christendom and the enlightenment. It is therefore essential to understand the difference between a “Christian fundamentalist theocracy” (everything we do not want) and a secular European society based on our Christian cultural heritage (what we do want).

 

So no, you don’t need to have a personal relationship with God or Jesus to fight for our Christian cultural heritage. It is enough that you are a Christian-agnostic or a Christian-atheist (an atheist who wants to preserve at least the basics of the European Christian cultural legacy (Christian holidays, Christmas and Easter)).

 

The PCCTS, Knights Templar is therefore not a religious organisation but rather a Christian “culturalist” military order.

[Haxorsist]

The death toll from Utøya has been revised to 68 dead. This includes the person who died at the hospital.

 

EDIT: The death toll from the bomb has been revised to 8 dead. Both numbers are subject to change as the police continue their investigation.

[Hallow]

according to the news source i read, he's admitted to the killings which woudl mean he shudl also be pleading guilty link

 

Hallow - doesn't this guy diserve the Death Penalty rather than sitting in jail (likely solitary confinement considering his crime) for the rest of his life and wasting your tax dollars? i mean, why should citizens have to pay for his shelter, food, clothes and medical care when he took the lives of 95+ innocent to make a political statement?

 

Just gonna reply to this and leave it there as I don't want to turn this thread into a debate over this. I personally don't believe in the death penalty, even if a person might be seen to "deserve it".

 

If you wanna continue discussing it more than that Red I'm happy to jojn you in D&D

[ROB_88]

wait, what?

they lowered the death count that much, how is that even possible?

[Majsju]

wait, what?

they lowered the death count that much, how is that even possible?

 

Partly a deliberate exageration by the police, to mark the great difference from the first report of 10 dead. Partly because the chaos after the shootings made it extremely difficult to get an accurate number. They are still searching for bodies, as not all camp participants are accounted for. So 68 is the number they are certain of right now. It might climb, if they find more bodies, or if some of the injured are too damaged.

 

 

Heh, apparently norwegian police (PST) knew already back in march that Beirik had purchased chemicals online from Poland. And yet they did not investigate the matter.

[Red2111]

nah no need to debate the death penalty. as we both disagree ona fundamental level about it, i doubt it would be a healthy debate i agree that this shoudln't degrade into a debate about the deaht penalty and sorry it seemed like i was trying to turn it that way cause that wasn't my intention

 

 

i'm actually thinking abotu moving this topic into the D&D section ...

[Liitha]

and no he have not actually pleaded guilty, he have acknowledged what he done, but have not pleaded guilty to doing anything criminal, as what he did in his mind was nesicary too save Norway and western Europe from cultural marxism and islamisation.

 

and PST did nothing as he was one on a list of 60 people delivered too them for having bougth chemicals from a merchant in polen, the buy was only for 121 nkr, somewhere around 15-20 usd, they do not know what he got, this was not on the list, the list was compiled after a search in the valuta registry.

[Haxorsist]

The police prosecutor has now said they are considering charging Breivik for crimes against humanity. The definition of crimes against humanity in the Norwegian Penal Code differs somewhat from the definition in the Rome Statues of the ICC. It's not necessary that the crimes were committed as part of government policy. The law applies to where, as part of a systematic attack, a civilian population's basic human rights are violated because of their political convictions. If convicted, Breivik may face 30 years inprisonment.