[Advanced] Hollywood 1940s Mafia - Game Over

[Leelou]

Is that to me or people voting?

[Hybrid]

may I ask why I have votes on me?

 

My reasons are here.

[Nolder]

no leelou I understand the votes were actually on the person I replaced

I'm asking players for their reasons since I really don't want to do a full reread

[keyholder21]

@Ama - it just read kinda half revealish when you said "have information from over the night." Because with that, you could have been the Finder, or received some kind of message, etc. That's all.

 

@Nolder - I agree with what Hybrid said about Lessa. My vote had been on Ama. Then she revealed, so I no longer wanted to vote for her. I don't find the case on Jack all that strong, and Lessa already had a vote on her so I switched my vote to her/you.

[Nolder]

Lessa Nikia Nolder

- Laying very low

- Only votes of significance were bandwagons on Red and Vambram. The Red one is worth noting: Here she only comments on Wombat's weird voting, even though the argument is well under way. Later here, she comments on Red being super scummy for overreaction, but this is only after a couple other people chimed in with suspicion against Red. So this feels like an opportunistic bandwagon to me.

- Notably did not show up to vote for killuliu. (Though this could just be due to RL)

- Lots of comments on "nothing jumps out at me"

Conclusion: Timid scum vibe.

1. well she was just replaced, perhaps the "laying low" was merely not having time or interest for the game?

2. have either of these players died?

3. I'll point you back to number 1

4. could be true, could just be lazy play re: 1, could be scummy

 

in the case that no one has died per accusation number 2, and if they have and did not flip town, I'd like to request that you give me a chance to make up for lessa's lackluster play

in the case that someone did die per accusation 2 and they did flip town...well I will further evaluate the bandwagons and votes I guess and we'll come back to the topic

[Nolder]

@Nolder - I agree with what Hybrid said about Lessa. My vote had been on Ama. Then she revealed, so I no longer wanted to vote for her. I don't find the case on Jack all that strong, and Lessa already had a vote on her so I switched my vote to her/you.

did you ever make your own post with concerns/accusations, or have you just been bandwagoning Hybrids reasoning?

[Hybrid]

Lessa Nikia Nolder

- Laying very low

- Only votes of significance were bandwagons on Red and Vambram. The Red one is worth noting: Here she only comments on Wombat's weird voting, even though the argument is well under way. Later here, she comments on Red being super scummy for overreaction, but this is only after a couple other people chimed in with suspicion against Red. So this feels like an opportunistic bandwagon to me.

- Notably did not show up to vote for killuliu. (Though this could just be due to RL)

- Lots of comments on "nothing jumps out at me"

Conclusion: Timid scum vibe.

1. well she was just replaced, perhaps the "laying low" was merely not having time or interest for the game?

2. have either of these players died?

3. I'll point you back to number 1

4. could be true, could just be lazy play re: 1, could be scummy

 

in the case that no one has died per accusation number 2, and if they have and did not flip town, I'd like to request that you give me a chance to make up for lessa's lackluster play

in the case that someone did die per accusation 2 and they did flip town...well I will further evaluate the bandwagons and votes I guess and we'll come back to the topic

 

Both Red and Vambram died and flipped town.

 

You bring up a fair point about Lessa's inactivity. I dislike switching votes so close to the deadline, but with the amount of inactivity it's hardly going to matter. Jack pinged me with that use of WIFOM and he already has a vote, so unvote, vote Jack.

 

I should be able to check in before the deadline, if my vote is necessary for a majority.

[Sedai]

So I ping you for using a wifom against you. The same wifom that you would have used to vet yourself? Isn't that basically calling the kettle black?

[Nolder]

I suppose I'd better investigate those deaths and lessa's part in them then

thank you for unvoting me

[Leelou]

VOTE COUNT

 

Hybrid (2): Jack, Ama

Lessa (1): Key

Jack (2): Ishy, Hybrid

 

 

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is Monday 11 AM EST

 

Deadline is in 5 hours. No extensions.

[Amadine]

Come on you lot!

[dapianoplay3r]

krak is right when he says ameg is jittery right now, and that he's pointing us towards inactives doesn't sit well with me. most times the inactives tend to be townies and soem of your more active people tend to be scum.

By the way, if Red flips scum, it's worth looking at Alanna or Lia.

I want to look at this because Alanna and Lia both turned out to be against the town. I think it was because Hybrid was a scum team mate looking to link three players together. 2 town and 1 scum. He didnt realise the reason one was scummy was that they were the symp.

It was a nice way of letting Alanna a Lia get semi cleared of scumminess while still having another town to throw under the bus before the scum so they can try clear their name further is needed

 

 

Second thing: Part of the issue here is you are taking Hybrid's view of things, which is not mine. He is telling you that you should lynch lurkers. I actually disagree. I am a lurker, that's how I choose to play, that's how I always play. I don't believe lurking always hurts the town, it depends how/why/when you're doing it.

Hey now. I didn't say that we should Lynch All Lurkers. I did say that the town should take care of lurkers, and I prefer a quick bandwagon to poke them into speaking up. Lynching someone only for lurking is not a particularly pro-town route unless they persist in lurking even when confronted.As for lurking itself, I agree that it can have pro-town motives. However, I feel that the cons outweigh the pros, hence my blanket statement that it's anti-town. Just clarifying my position here.

Setting up a disagreement so to look like he has an opposing view and therefore cannot be linked with the player at all

 

By the way, if Red flips scum, it's worth looking at Alanna or Lia.

Linking players never leads to good things. it gives the scum an easy way to both frame and clear people. FoS @ Hybrid for doing one of the most scummiest things in this game so far.

Actually, if you look at my original post, it's calling out your redirect from the inactive players onto the active players.What I was proposing was really nothing more than basic scumhunting: if we lynch a scum, we look back at their behavior and see who they've defended and who's defended them as a starting point for future cases.I'm curious as to how you would put that as "framing" or "clearing" anyone. Unvote and vote Red

And so red starts getting lynched.... for stating the scumminess and being part of their plan

 

you lynch me, i flip town which in your mind will "clear" Alanna & Lia to a point.

No, it won't. You seem to have forgotten that innocents have no knowledge of the alignment of anyone but themselves.

also, scum like to link theirselves to players, thsi way if they get lynched they have a good chance of taking a townie down with them.

Of course they do. But they also like to keep their teammates alive.So we have two options:1) Use the information provided by the lynch.2) Shoot around in the dark and cross our fingers that the Finder is successful.Clearly #1 is a better option.

as for the framing part of it, this is simple. the scum knows whose town and not. lets say your just a townie pointing out what you honestly think. when i flip town though, the scum can turn this linking on you and use it to get you lynched.

That would be a terrible reason to lynch me. If you find my case to be weak or contradictory, then go for it. But accusing an innocent doesn't make one scum.I'll say it again -- innocents don't know anyone's alignment but their own.

vice versus is you flip town, then they could turn it on me and say i was over reacting to get you lynched.

And that would be a terrible reason to lynch you. If I flip town, then everyone realizes that my accusations were little more than educated guesses. If my reasoning is good, then they can consider my case. But it's not an automatic nail in the coffin to oppose an innocent.Again -- innocents don't know anyone's alignment but their own.I like my vote where it is.

It's almost reverse psychology. Your saying it wont clear them but you know even if it doesnt it will have a bit of sway in the back of peoples minds

 

krak is right when he says ameg is jittery right now, and that he's pointing us towards inactives doesn't sit well with me. most times the inactives tend to be townies and soem of your more active people tend to be scum.

By the way, if Red flips scum, it's worth looking at Alanna or Lia.

???? Really Hybrid. 1. Lia is on LoA. How does that point at Lia? 2. Why are you so against Alanna? UNVOTE, VOTE HYBRID for this.

1. Red suggested that inactive players are less likely to be scum. Lia is inactive. Ergo, Red could be deflecting attention from Lia. Hence my suggestion to examine Lia's behavior if Red ever flips scum.2. I've voted for her once. And I suggested taking a closer look at her posts if Red flips mafia. I wouldn't deem that to be "so against Alanna."

Anther time where you put the attention on Red and Alanna but still manage to keep lia in the mix. It is there just as a side but it still links all three together. I think your plan could have worked if Alanna hadn't been your symp

 

 

if someone flipping scum implicates another person, then the reverse is true if the same person flips town. you can't have it one way and not realize or acknowledge the implications of the reverse Hybrid.if you believe a scum alignment on me would help implicate 2 other players, then you must also believe that an innocent alignment on me would help clear them.

If you flip innocent, how in the world does it clear Lia or Alanna of being mafia?

this was god. Cos this hung a lantern on the fact that it doesn't quite clear them but not by you. So it makes it look like Red is playing scummy and you are just a townie trying to make sense of the world

 

 

Well honestly: look at people who pushed for Vamb, and we pretty likely have a scum, yet some of you decide to come after me? Right. I'm on my cellphone so I can't check, but Hybrid is now pinging me hard for him pushing red and now jumping on me (thoigh I might remember wrong..vote hybrid

Kill distances from Hybrid but also draw attention to the fact he has been leading the town against town. This adds to Lia/kill's credibility as town and is good team work on their part

 

UnvoteI don't like killuliu's over-reaction either, but I'm going to hold off on voting him until I've had a chance to consider all the possibilities.

Reason being that I don't want to quick bandwagon him when he hasn't acted super scummy, but I don't know if there are any better options.

I agree with those but there are only 2 votes on him so far (maybe even 1)and I think some pressure is needed atleast'for that reason I will vote KillIll be watching and unvote if I see a bandwagon before it has a good reason

That still bugs me. There was no pressure at that point. 2(maybe 3) votes wasn't a danger of a quick bandwagon nor was it pressure

 

Innocent points for Wombat and Piano, IMO. Wombat initially put the pressure on killuliu, Piano was the one who put killuliu in the lead when killuliu and I were tied at 2 votes.Ishamael pinged for his unvote near the deadline then his typo in the revote.Amegakure and Amadine both pinged for posting near the deadline but not voting for the majority, considering that there was no precedent of leelou counting poorly formatted votes.

Innocent points for something you didnt want to do. Does that make the opposite, which you did, scum points?

 

Lessa Nikia Nolder- Laying very low- Only votes of significance were bandwagons on Red and Vambram. The Red one is worth noting: Here she only comments on Wombat's weird voting, even though the argument is well under way. Later here, she comments on Red being super scummy for overreaction, but this is only after a couple other people chimed in with suspicion against Red. So this feels like an opportunistic bandwagon to me.- Notably did not show up to vote for killuliu. (Though this could just be due to RL)- Lots of comments on "nothing jumps out at me"Conclusion: Timid scum vibe.

1. well she was just replaced, perhaps the "laying low" was merely not having time or interest for the game?2. have either of these players died?3. I'll point you back to number 14. could be true, could just be lazy play re: 1, could be scummyin the case that no one has died per accusation number 2, and if they have and did not flip town, I'd like to request that you give me a chance to make up for lessa's lackluster playin the case that someone did die per accusation 2 and they did flip town...well I will further evaluate the bandwagons and votes I guess and we'll come back to the topic

Both Red and Vambram died and flipped town.You bring up a fair point about Lessa's inactivity. I dislike switching votes so close to the deadline, but with the amount of inactivity it's hardly going to matter. Jack pinged me with that use of WIFOM and he already has a vote, so unvote, vote Jack.I should be able to check in before the deadline, if my vote is necessary for a majority.

I included this just for the last line

"I should be able to check in before the deadline, if my vote is necessary for a majority"

He will be able to check in but only if his vote is needed. how will he know that his vote is needed if he doesnt check in to the thread. This might jsut be me reading it wrong but to me it reads like he will know the vote count before he reads the thread

 

So yea VOTE HYBRID

[dapianoplay3r]

Sorry ama that just took a long time to get together and post. I was distracted with other things

[Leelou]

VOTE COUNT

 

Hybrid (3): Jack, Ama, Player

Nolder(1): Key

Jack (2): Ishy, Hybrid

 

Not voting: Krak, ameg, Sakaea, Nolder, Christine

 

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is Monday 11 AM EST

 

Deadline is in just over 3 hours. No extensions.

[John E. Kelley]

In the interests of a controlled lynch:

 

Unvote. Vote Hybrid.

[Nolder]

Deadline is in just over 3 hours. No extensions.

I'm sure glad I didn't want to do a full reread

I wouldn't have had the time anyway

[Nolder]

also I cannot place my vote on Hybrid without feeling extremely guilty (yes even if he flips mafia)

he took his vote off me when I asked him to despite having a somewhat decent reason to have it on

he gave me a chance so I'll give him a chance

 

I hope you guys wont mind if I abstain from voting today

I haven't read anything before my first post in this thread and it's kind of hard to want to lynch someone after only a couple pages of dialogue

[Hybrid]

So I ping you for using a wifom against you. The same wifom that you would have used to vet yourself? Isn't that basically calling the kettle black?

 

I never used that WIFOM to vet myself. It was Ishamael's reason for voting for you.

[Hybrid]

krak is right when he says ameg is jittery right now, and that he's pointing us towards inactives doesn't sit well with me. most times the inactives tend to be townies and soem of your more active people tend to be scum.

By the way, if Red flips scum, it's worth looking at Alanna or Lia.

I want to look at this because Alanna and Lia both turned out to be against the town. I think it was because Hybrid was a scum team mate looking to link three players together. 2 town and 1 scum. He didnt realise the reason one was scummy was that they were the symp.

It was a nice way of letting Alanna a Lia get semi cleared of scumminess while still having another town to throw under the bus before the scum so they can try clear their name further is needed

 

 

My "link" of those three players was contingent on Red being scum. If Red doesn't flip scum -- and if I was scum, I would know she was town -- then there was no reason to lynch Alanna or Lia. The whole scenario goes out the window as soon as Red flips innocent -- you can't infer anything about Alanna's or Lia's alignment.

 

To put my original statement another way: Red's post could be construed as defense of Lia and Alanna. Thus if Red flips scum, Lia or Alanna might be one of her teammates. If she flips innocent, the fact that she defended two other players means absolutely nothing.

 

Second thing: Part of the issue here is you are taking Hybrid's view of things, which is not mine. He is telling you that you should lynch lurkers. I actually disagree. I am a lurker, that's how I choose to play, that's how I always play. I don't believe lurking always hurts the town, it depends how/why/when you're doing it.

Hey now. I didn't say that we should Lynch All Lurkers. I did say that the town should take care of lurkers, and I prefer a quick bandwagon to poke them into speaking up. Lynching someone only for lurking is not a particularly pro-town route unless they persist in lurking even when confronted.As for lurking itself, I agree that it can have pro-town motives. However, I feel that the cons outweigh the pros, hence my blanket statement that it's anti-town. Just clarifying my position here.

Setting up a disagreement so to look like he has an opposing view and therefore cannot be linked with the player at all

 

That wasn't my intention at all. I put the third vote on Alanna to gauge her reaction, not to quick lynch her.

 

By the way, if Red flips scum, it's worth looking at Alanna or Lia.

Linking players never leads to good things. it gives the scum an easy way to both frame and clear people. FoS @ Hybrid for doing one of the most scummiest things in this game so far.

Actually, if you look at my original post, it's calling out your redirect from the inactive players onto the active players.What I was proposing was really nothing more than basic scumhunting: if we lynch a scum, we look back at their behavior and see who they've defended and who's defended them as a starting point for future cases.I'm curious as to how you would put that as "framing" or "clearing" anyone. Unvote and vote Red

And so red starts getting lynched.... for stating the scumminess and being part of their plan

 

I voted for her for dragging a bunch of unnecessary WIFOM into the mix. I'd do it again, if she reacted the same way.

 

you lynch me, i flip town which in your mind will "clear" Alanna & Lia to a point.

No, it won't. You seem to have forgotten that innocents have no knowledge of the alignment of anyone but themselves.

also, scum like to link theirselves to players, thsi way if they get lynched they have a good chance of taking a townie down with them.

Of course they do. But they also like to keep their teammates alive.So we have two options:1) Use the information provided by the lynch.2) Shoot around in the dark and cross our fingers that the Finder is successful.Clearly #1 is a better option.

as for the framing part of it, this is simple. the scum knows whose town and not. lets say your just a townie pointing out what you honestly think. when i flip town though, the scum can turn this linking on you and use it to get you lynched.

That would be a terrible reason to lynch me. If you find my case to be weak or contradictory, then go for it. But accusing an innocent doesn't make one scum.I'll say it again -- innocents don't know anyone's alignment but their own.

vice versus is you flip town, then they could turn it on me and say i was over reacting to get you lynched.

And that would be a terrible reason to lynch you. If I flip town, then everyone realizes that my accusations were little more than educated guesses. If my reasoning is good, then they can consider my case. But it's not an automatic nail in the coffin to oppose an innocent.Again -- innocents don't know anyone's alignment but their own.I like my vote where it is.

It's almost reverse psychology. Your saying it wont clear them but you know even if it doesnt it will have a bit of sway in the back of peoples minds

 

How so?

 

"Red was innocent. Since she defended Alanna and Lia, they must be innocent."

 

Does the above statement make any sense?

 

--

 

Too many quotes: I have to split my response.

[Hybrid]

Part 2:

 

 

krak is right when he says ameg is jittery right now, and that he's pointing us towards inactives doesn't sit well with me. most times the inactives tend to be townies and soem of your more active people tend to be scum.

By the way, if Red flips scum, it's worth looking at Alanna or Lia.

???? Really Hybrid. 1. Lia is on LoA. How does that point at Lia? 2. Why are you so against Alanna? UNVOTE, VOTE HYBRID for this.

1. Red suggested that inactive players are less likely to be scum. Lia is inactive. Ergo, Red could be deflecting attention from Lia. Hence my suggestion to examine Lia's behavior if Red ever flips scum.2. I've voted for her once. And I suggested taking a closer look at her posts if Red flips mafia. I wouldn't deem that to be "so against Alanna."

Anther time where you put the attention on Red and Alanna but still manage to keep lia in the mix. It is there just as a side but it still links all three together. I think your plan could have worked if Alanna hadn't been your symp

 

Actually, I was addressing Christine's post, who mentioned both Lia and Alanna in it.

 

And what plan? I point out that an innocent defended one of my scum teammates? Like I said, that doesn't clear anyone.

 

if someone flipping scum implicates another person, then the reverse is true if the same person flips town. you can't have it one way and not realize or acknowledge the implications of the reverse Hybrid.if you believe a scum alignment on me would help implicate 2 other players, then you must also believe that an innocent alignment on me would help clear them.

If you flip innocent, how in the world does it clear Lia or Alanna of being mafia?

this was god. Cos this hung a lantern on the fact that it doesn't quite clear them but not by you. So it makes it look like Red is playing scummy and you are just a townie trying to make sense of the world

 

That was actually exactly what was going on.

 

If an innocent player defends another player, it means absolutely nothing about that other player's alignment.

 

Well honestly: look at people who pushed for Vamb, and we pretty likely have a scum, yet some of you decide to come after me? Right. I'm on my cellphone so I can't check, but Hybrid is now pinging me hard for him pushing red and now jumping on me (thoigh I might remember wrong..vote hybrid

Kill distances from Hybrid but also draw attention to the fact he has been leading the town against town. This adds to Lia/kill's credibility as town and is good team work on their part

 

It's fairly close to the deadline, inactivity is rampant, and I'm an easy lynch because I've already led at least one lynch on an innocent (and you could make the argument for Vambram too, even though I didn't vote for him).

 

UnvoteI don't like killuliu's over-reaction either, but I'm going to hold off on voting him until I've had a chance to consider all the possibilities.

Reason being that I don't want to quick bandwagon him when he hasn't acted super scummy, but I don't know if there are any better options.

I agree with those but there are only 2 votes on him so far (maybe even 1)and I think some pressure is needed atleast'for that reason I will vote KillIll be watching and unvote if I see a bandwagon before it has a good reason

That still bugs me. There was no pressure at that point. 2(maybe 3) votes wasn't a danger of a quick bandwagon nor was it pressure

 

With almost zero activity and a deadline fairly soon?

 

Innocent points for Wombat and Piano, IMO. Wombat initially put the pressure on killuliu, Piano was the one who put killuliu in the lead when killuliu and I were tied at 2 votes.Ishamael pinged for his unvote near the deadline then his typo in the revote.Amegakure and Amadine both pinged for posting near the deadline but not voting for the majority, considering that there was no precedent of leelou counting poorly formatted votes.

Innocent points for something you didnt want to do. Does that make the opposite, which you did, scum points?

 

You could look at it that way.

 

Lessa Nikia Nolder- Laying very low- Only votes of significance were bandwagons on Red and Vambram. The Red one is worth noting: Here she only comments on Wombat's weird voting, even though the argument is well under way. Later here, she comments on Red being super scummy for overreaction, but this is only after a couple other people chimed in with suspicion against Red. So this feels like an opportunistic bandwagon to me.- Notably did not show up to vote for killuliu. (Though this could just be due to RL)- Lots of comments on "nothing jumps out at me"Conclusion: Timid scum vibe.

1. well she was just replaced, perhaps the "laying low" was merely not having time or interest for the game?2. have either of these players died?3. I'll point you back to number 14. could be true, could just be lazy play re: 1, could be scummyin the case that no one has died per accusation number 2, and if they have and did not flip town, I'd like to request that you give me a chance to make up for lessa's lackluster playin the case that someone did die per accusation 2 and they did flip town...well I will further evaluate the bandwagons and votes I guess and we'll come back to the topic

Both Red and Vambram died and flipped town.You bring up a fair point about Lessa's inactivity. I dislike switching votes so close to the deadline, but with the amount of inactivity it's hardly going to matter. Jack pinged me with that use of WIFOM and he already has a vote, so unvote, vote Jack.I should be able to check in before the deadline, if my vote is necessary for a majority.

I included this just for the last line

"I should be able to check in before the deadline, if my vote is necessary for a majority"

He will be able to check in but only if his vote is needed. how will he know that his vote is needed if he doesnt check in to the thread. This might jsut be me reading it wrong but to me it reads like he will know the vote count before he reads the thread

 

Poorly worded on my part. I meant that I should be able to check in before the deadline, and would be willing to change my vote if necessary to get a majority.

[Leelou]

VOTE COUNT

 

Hybrid (4): Jack, Ama, Player, Ishy

Nolder(1): Key

Jack (1): Hybrid

 

Not voting: Krak, ameg, Sakaea, Nolder, Christine

 

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is Monday 11 AM EST

[Krakalakachkn]

I've found Hybrid scummy since day 1 (or 2). Player's good reread just cemented it for me (that and the deadline).

[Leelou]

VOTE COUNT

 

Hybrid (5): Jack, Ama, Player, Ishy, Krak

Nolder(1): Key

Jack (1): Hybrid

 

Not voting: ameg, Sakaea, Nolder, Christine

 

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is Monday 11 AM EST

[Krakalakachkn]

GORRAMIT People!

 

VOTE! VOTE! VOTE!

[Sedai]

Krak you haven't voted